To those who say we shouldn't give up on the Bible belt, read'em and weep

[geek tragedy]

Lost causes (* won by 10+ points):
Oklahoma: 31.2
Alabama: 25.7
Texas: 22.9
Mississippi: 20.3
Kentucky: 19.8
South Carolina: 17.2
Georgia: 16.7
Lousiana: 14.6
Tennessee: 14.3
West Virginia: 12.9
North Carolina: 12.6


Severe uphill climbs:
Arkansas: 9.8
Virginia: 9.3

Maybe, but don't hold your breath:
Florida: 5.0


The Bible belt is hostile to our values and our message. We waste money, time, and principles if we vainly attempt to woo the enemy.

Any progress we make in society will be despite these places.

[NorthernSpy]

1. yes, and that's why attacking red-state welfare...

... has become such a popular idea around here. The blue states CAN discredit the repug "values" discourse and seize the upper hand, but they'll have to be prepared to play hardball.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1326384#1326573

[skooooo]

2. Yup I agree. The Red Welfare State tactic is the ticket..

...we have to use their own rhetoric against them.

[geek tragedy]

3. Yep. We need to borrow a page from Grover Norquist's book, and

attack the federal government. Weaken it. Reduce all discretionary spending. Especially agriculture subsidies and other pork programs.

[RPM]

29. Yes - especially since we don't control it now.... n/t

[RPM]

30. Yes - especially since we don't control it now.... n/t

[davepc]

35. Mondale ran as being anti-deficit

look where that got him.

[davepc]

4. Take a GOOD hard look at who's Governor of VA and WV and NC

Bullshit lost causes. They're lost causes because the national party has abandoned them.

WE CAN WIN THERE IF WE MAKE AN EFFORT TO DO SO.

[geek tragedy]

We tried with North Carolina. West Virginia was a swing state four years

ago. John Edwards was from North Carolina. We did try, and they have rejected us by whopping margins.

There is hope for Virginia--mainly because of educated people moving into the north.

[davepc]

9. the simple act of picking John Edwards, a man who was running

for president cause he couldent get re-elected to the senate was not going to magically deliver North Carolina to us.

If we had a southern democrat who spent his time in the south for most of the campaign and sent his liberal northeastern running mate arround the upper midwest we might of actually WON a few states in the south.

We pick up North Carolina, West Virgina and Virgina. How important is Ohio THEN?

The only change to our platform would be to adopt Howard Deans gun control stance, and leave everything else as it was.

[geek tragedy]

22. This is bigger than a few McAuliffesque targeting maneuvers.

Guns weren't that big of an issue this year. It was all about gays, god, and abortion instead. They have a full arsenal of such issues.

These states weren't close. They were blowouts of the first magnitude. They were more red than California was blue.

People think that a Southern Democrat is going to have a talismanic charm on these people. Ask Al Gore about that--he couldn't even win his own freaking state.

[tnlefty]

24. Perhaps, but I saw a 'Don't Let Kerry Take Your Guns' sticker the

day before the election.

[davepc]

25. Guns are a big issue EVERY YEAR in rural america

but since you don't care what those backward redneck racist bigots think, you don't bother to learn that.

You over-estimate the God thing. They're leery of abortion but more or less tolerant of it, as long as we're not voting for "partial birth" laws. And they don't have a lot of experience with out urban gays past 30 seconds of will and grace they might of seen one time on TV. But we hold true and dear to an issue that they're afraid of because they don't understand it, have no experience with it, and don't really know what it means for them other then what they've been told by Rush et al.

I don't think a souther democrat is a talisman, and John Fucking Edwards and Albert Stiff as a Board didn't connect with them, not that they ever tried.

Ask Al Gore to name a NASCAR driver. watch him stammer before he blurts out Dale Ernheart. I bet Bush's handlers had him memorize 3 of them, and know what number they have on their car.

THATS why we lose. We need a REAL southerner. Bush gives them this fake Texas Schick, but he pulls it off real damn well cause he's a good salesman and he's been doing it for 25 years. We give them John Edwards. They laugh at us, as they should and go back to Bush.

They embraced Jimmy Carter. Enough of them fell for Clinton's act. WE DICTATED POLICY when they won, NOT the other way around.

You keep writing people off, we'll keep losing.

A Southern Democrat isn't a magic bullet, but a GOOD one will win us states there. Enough to win an election.

[MsTryska]

31. Damn! You said it!

Everyone wondering about the red states needs to look at this.

[toddaa]

56. A-fricken-Men

I know quite a few good ol' boys in the Midwest who vote Guns, Guns, and more Guns. They love guns, they love the NRA, they hate the government.

You know what else they hate? Corporations. Big Corporations are just as evil as big government in these parts. When the Democratic Party stops feeding at the same corporate trough as Republicans and starts running on a little guy against the big guy platform (like they used to before the degenerate DLC), the tide will turn so fast it'll make your head spin. Unfortunately, all I hear from so called Democratic media analysts is to try to get more conservative. The Democrats are so damn close to Republicans right now, that the good ol' boys will take the real thing any day over the wannabees anyday.

[YNGW]

46. Not That Progressive

Yeah, they have Democratic Party Govs. But for the most part, Democrats in the South are not that progressive.

[RafterMan]

5. Kentucky 46-45, 1996

The Republicans gained 20 points in 8 years -- why can't the Dems?

[geek tragedy]

7. Because they have RNC values, not progressive values. eom

[RafterMan]

10. They just miraculously moved 20 points right in eight years

What an insight.

[geek tragedy]

14. Polarization is a fact. A tragic fact, but the Rethugs have made it a

reality.

[RafterMan]

15. Seems like *you* are trying to make it a reality

[geek tragedy]

21. Let's be honest--we have to do damage control for the next 20 years

until the Dems can build a national coalition again. Because right now, the Democratic party is a complete pushover nationally. The Republican party is stronger than any party has been since WWII.

Right now, the enemy is threatening to take everything away from us.

Bunker mentality? When you're outnumbered, outgunned, and getting shelled mercilessly, it's not an irrational approach.

I myself am an AINO, and prefer to associate myself with the progressive values of my local community and state.

[Roland99]

33. Because the fundamentalist Christians are gaining ground here in KY

And, there is a large military foundation here between Ft. Knox and Ft. Campbell (home of the 101st Airborne)

[Roland99]

34. oops

d/p

[LoZoccolo]

6. I have just declared /you/ a lost cause.

:hi:

[geek tragedy]

8. Fine. I will continue to work for a progressive agenda throughout

my lifetime. While the people of the South oppose that same agenda.

[davepc]

11. have fun losing elections

Hope your progressive policy holds up when it reaches Chief Justice Anthony Scalia

[geek tragedy]

12. My goal is to make sure the federal government doesn't prevent

Blue states from protecting civil rights and other cherished values.

Alabama and Mississippi are the way they are for a reason, and I'm going to fight like hell to make sure they don't drag down the decent parts of this country with them.

And if you don't think we can win national elections without the South, I suggest you consult an immigration attorney, because then we're fucked.

[davepc]

13. bunker mentality. real progressive.

Play defence, I'm going on offence, and I'm going to win.

[geek tragedy]

16. Enjoy ordering the sea to retreat, King Canute.

There are parts of the country that are redeemable.

The Bible Belt isn't one of them.

[sonicx]

18. you're running for president?

[5thGenDemocrat]

57. Well, you seemed to be a bang-up job of it this year

I have an idea -- let's nominate Jefferson Davis for President and see what happens.
John
I'm writing the south off. If that means we never win the White House again, tough. I live in blue Michigan and have no interest in pandering to the crackers. I'll work with Iowa, Ohio, Florida, New Mexico and Colorado and other states we theoretically could win next time, instead.

[LoZoccolo]

27. You're already working against that.

By:

1. Alienating people, to...
2. ...NO BENEFIT.

In short, your sentiments are just so much useless bullshit that works against us, and thus, you are part of the problem, and thus, should be disregarded.

[geek tragedy]

39. Let's be honest. The post-election week is the time we say stuff

that we can't say 18 months from now.

[foo_bar]

19. for the record, not all new yorkers are passive-aggressive shitheads

And not all passive-aggressive shitheads are irredeemable.

[LoZoccolo]

26. Oh, I agree.

I haven't written off New York, I've just put him on ignore (which is not working now anyways).

[QC]

49. He's not a New Yorker, anyway.

He claims to have grown up in some undefined red state.

The only truly insufferable New Yorkers are the ones who grew up in some place like East Pissflap, Nebraska, and moved to the city. They are mocked both by real New Yorkers and the folks back home, because both know a self-important phoney when they see one.

And frankly, given this person's deliberately divisive postings and his relentless obsession with this one topic, I smell a troll.

[foo_bar]

53. "real New Yorkers" immigrated from somewhere

Give us your red, your poor...

[CBGLuthier]

17. I am so tired of state bashing

I live in the reddest state (proportionately) there is. Oklahoma.


504,000 of us proudly voted for Kerry. We knew we would not carry the state but we did not give up.

I do NOT consider all republicans to be the ENEMY. I do NOT consider all christians to be the ENEMY. They are blinded somewhat by the BS that the admin spins. That does not mean it is impossible for them to open their eyes and their minds and their hearts and realize that hatred is not a christian value. I am an atheist BTW.

We need to show them that their beloved politicians are hypocrites. We should post Pap Bush's remarks before congress in 1969 (I think that was the year) where he was totally in support of abortion and birth control. For racist reasons of course.

I will slightly concede that a presidential campaign shouldn't focus too many resources on states like mine but to totally ignore us will just make the problem a lot worse.

And I want to once again point out that even the bluest of states have a hell of a lot of red in them.

[sonicx]

20. "to totally ignore us will just make the problem a lot worse."

that actually didn't happen. also, Kerry had a money disadvantage.

[CBGLuthier]

51. No, it didn't happen

But that is the jist of the original poster. Give up on states like us.

Like I said, I don't expect a huge effort from a national level for states like OK since we have so few electoral votes and we are tilted so far to the right. But we must never give up on any geographic portion of this country.

[kskiska]

23. One thing we won't be dealing with next time

is the cult of personality. I'm sure that many voted for * because they believe he's Jesus. Of course, some do believe the GOP is the "party of God," but the personality thing was hard to beat.

[DemocracyInaction]

28. It's called education

and the redder the state the lower they rank in education. Bush says he has another 'education' agenda. It's to sink the level of education going on in blue states until we breed generations of morons who will listen to the republicans and go to the voting booth to vote against their own future. In a few years, the repubs won't even have to rig the machines anymore. You can't fight this type of ignorance. All you can do is wait for them to be reduced to the income level of illegal aliens and suffer. That, unfortunately, is the only way to 'correct' the ignorant gene. When they realize that Jesus just isn't bringing home the bacon, they begin to bitch and turn against the preachermen. That is how it's happend throughout history. And since we are too dumb to read the history books, we have to go through it ourselves.

[faithfulcitizen]

54. really? I thought repug's are generally more, not less, educated

as a whole, and therefore have more wealth? perhaps it's not true of advanced degrees, but in general...:shrug:

[Roland99]

32. Take same-sex marriage off the ballots and out of the campaign

and it's a completely different story.


Rove is an evil genius for orchestrating this election around same-sex marriage.

[brentspeak]

36. Exactly

A lot of DUers act as if same-sex marriage has ALWAYS been a top priority of the Democratic party, and that those of us who favor dropping it from the platform are abandoning the party's core values.
But it's a brand-new issue on the American political landscape (and even rather new within the gay community itself) that everybody knows is, at this present time, instantly polarizing. Did Bill Clinton advocate gay marriage before suceeding in getting elected? No. And yet, which president before him has ever done so much for the gay community once he was in office?

[Hello_Kitty]

37. You forgot Utah!!!

Shithead won by 30 points there. Idaho too.

[geek tragedy]

40. But they're not part of the geographic belt.

But, seeing as my point was that we should forget about such states, there is kind of an irony about this.

[QC]

50. But that information does not support this poster's contention

that southerners are responsible for all evil in the world, and thus must be ignored.

[The Chronicler]

38. The problem is by not being competitive in these places,

we automatically put our back against the wall. We have to immediately go on the defensive in the upper midwest while republicans can count on the south and lower midwest without even campaigning there. We're at a disadvantage before the game is played.

[geek tragedy]

41. We have California and the Northeast similarly locked up.

There's a reason certain states are known as battleground states. They have no prayer of getting elected in Connecticut, and we have no chance in Mississippi. In between there are states which either party could win.

[davepc]

42. but they're getting more and more of them, and were losing them

Next time Wisconsin and Michigan DON'T GO OUR WAY.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

43. A Moderate Southerner

can hold our bicoastal base and put

AZ

VA

NM

CO

NC

OH

and

FL in play...

[slackmaster]

44. Don't be so sure about California my friends

The fastest growing demographic is heavily Roman Catholic. Immigrants from Mexico and Central America often vote their church (i.e. "moral values").

Our strategy must be one of inclusion, not abandonment.

Ignore this peril at your own risk.

[The Chronicler]

45. NY = GOP governor, CA = GOP governor

CA has a GOP leaning state legislature. You're kidding yourself by comparing them. Democrats cant get elected dog catcher in TX.

[CBGLuthier]

52. No but they can

get elected governor of Oklahoma. :-)

Of course, it took two RW idiots to dilute the situation but still it did happen.

[The Chronicler]

47. MA = GOP governor, NYC = GOP mayor

[geek tragedy]

48. Bloomberg is a total RINO.

He only ran as a Repub to get around the Democratic machine in NYC.

[carnie_sf]

55. We should have let

these people leave the union in 1861

[kentuck]

58. You're just looking at the buckle - not the entire belt..

Otherwise, you would see that it stretches out to the rural sections of Washington state, to Nevada, to Montana, to ND, to NJ...the rural areas are not just in the South.