Arghhhh!!!!! - How can you possibly believe he didn't steal it!!!

[DancingBear]

They stole it from Cleland - Diebold.

They stole it from Barnes - Diebold.

They stole it in 2000 - you know the suspects.

How can you think they didn't steal it in 2004??

Florida 2000 - Bush +347

Florida 2004 - Bush +373,000

What in the hell do you think that George W. Bush did LEGALLY, ON HIS OWN, in the last four years to get those kinds of numbers?

Anyone???

It's the black boxes, stupid!

Malloy is so damn right about this it makes my teeth hurt.

[LisaL]

1. I agree. Why all of the sudden we are supposed to believe they

accurately counted the votes-without checking?
Would you trust them on anything else?

[Generator]

2. I'm with you

Frankly, it's the only thing that gives me hope. I know it should be the opposite. But if the majority of the voters couldn't see through the lies of Bushco then we really are fucked. I don't believe the majority of the NEW voters, the formally undecided voters went for Bush. I don't even believe that many of his usual Republicans voted for him.

I need some more proof baby before I disbelieve my own eyes.

[Lex]

3. A graphic to ponder

[QuidditchFan]

5. Lex, one more graph would make me more of a believer...

Do you have a graph of paper-ballot exit polls vs., ahem, "actuals" for states that went to Bush in the exit polls?

[Lex]

13. Sorry, I should've made it clear that it's not my graphic

I got it from another DU'er.

I'll try to find the original thread here at DU.

[laruemtt]

6. lex, do you have a link to these charts?

i tried to copy and paste to send to my sis in florida but it won't work. did you do these yourself? if so, great work. thanks.

[robbedvoter]

11. They were posted on a thread dealing with this - read the whole thing

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=11874&mesg_id=11874

[Lex]

14. Thanks for that link

I was trying to find it and having no luck.

[Lex]

12. I got it from another DU'er so I can't claim it as mine

the link is:

http://img103.exs.cx/img103/4526/exit_poll.gi f

(move the f over so it is .gif to actually have the correct url)

[pk_du]

17. Right click on graphic...properties ......gives you the url

to paste in to browser

[laruemtt]

19. thanks robbedvoter, lex and pk_du. n/t

[Nederland]

20. Where did those exit numbers come from?

They look like the bogus ones that the blogs were circulating on election day, not the real ones...

[info being]

4. I know they stole it, but so what?

Until our leaders fight there is nothing we can do.

[Walt Starr]

7. If we fall back on teh tinfoil road, we lose

Sorry, Georgia was teh first in a long line of evangelical base activation byt the GOP.

We lost fair and square.

[Lex]

15. We believe the exit polls re: morals being the motivation

but we disbelieve the exit polls re: turnout voting for Kerry?

[Cha]

22. NO we didn't and I don't know how

you can be so sure of this?!!

[Walt Starr]

31. Okay, present the hard evidence

All I've seen is conspiracy theory nonsense.

[Cha]

38. It's Not "conspiracy theory nonsense"..it's

starting from a logical point that needs Investigation.

SNIP

Mark Crispin Miller is a media critic, professor of communications at New York University, and author, most recently, of "Cruel and Unusual: Bush/Cheney's New World Order."
First of all, this election was definitely rigged. I have no doubt about it. It's a statistical impossibility that Bush got 8 million more votes than he got last time. In 2000, he got 15 million votes from right-wing Christians, and there are approximately 19 million of them in the country. They were eager to get the other 4 million. That was pretty much Karl Rove's strategy to get Bush elected.

But given Bush's low popularity ratings and the enormous number of new voters -- who skewed Democratic -- there is no way in the world that Bush got 8 million more votes this time. I think it had a lot to do with the electronic voting machines. Those machines are completely untrustworthy, and that's why the Republicans use them. Then there's the fact that the immediate claim of Ohio was not contested by the news media -- when Andrew Card came out and claimed the state, not only were the votes in Ohio not counted, they weren't even all cast. END SNIP

Much More at..
http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2004/11/04/election_reactions/index1.html

SNIP
The Neocon election rigging juggernaut lurches forward unstoppable. Three Republican dominated corporations control over 80% of the vote count in the United States: Sequoia Voting Systems Inc; Electronic Systems & Software Inc. (ES&S); and Diebold" Inc. As this transition has taken place a pattern of election upsets which overwhelmingly favors Republican candidates is obvious. The Neocons have determined that elections can be manipulated easily with the new touch screen voting systems and when accompanied by a media pounding of lies the public will accept the rigged election results as fact. The greatest advantage of the new touch screen voting scam is the removal of a paper trail and the blockage of access to the inner workings of the software.

When a voter touches the screen to select a candidate there is no confirmation that the machine has actually registered the correct selection. In the old punch-card and fill-in-the-circle paper systems, voters could see their choice marked on the ballot. In the event of any question a record of the vote existed and a recount was possible. Since the new electronic systems leave no paper trail there can be no recount and the results must be accepted as fact. Attempts to examine the code used by the machines in Florida were blocked in the courts by the GOP citing, "proprietary/trade secrecy" protections under a law, which made it impossible for the DNC to ascertain how the machines tabulated votes. END SNIP


Much More at..
http://www.thepeoplesvoice.org/

[Walt Starr]

39. you are offering no evidence, only rhetorical hyperbole

I'm sorry if it offends you, but we got our asses kicked. That's the reality.

[Cha]

40. It doesn't "offend" me what you say.

We Will get to the bottom it!

[m berst]

42. give it a chance?

Walt, can you give this a chance? There certainly is enough evidence to strongly suggest the possibility of massive fraud, and that is more than suffficient cause for investigations to happen, and the people being accused don't exactly have a trustworthy track record on anything they are involved in.

The county by county election results in Florida are highly suspect. They just are. Of course that doesn't "prove" anything, but is is not "conspiracy theory nonsense" either.

Why under any circumstances would we counsel moderation or resignation in the defense of democracy? Because the Bush crowd is honorable and honest? Because democracy is not important enough to get worked up about?

[Amaya]

24. Hmmm

whatever ya say Walt

[davepc]

8. You joust your windmills with the 'stolen' election

Some of us have hard work to do getting 10 million people to vote for US next time and not THEM.

[laruemtt]

9. so what good will 10 million do if

the machines are rigged and controlled by them? this is not tinfoil. this is reality.

[Cha]

25. Exactly!

Excellent Point!

[LisaL]

16. You can get a

100 million people to vote-and it won't matter if their votes are not counted.

[City Lights]

10. Agreed.

And we'll continue to lose until the Dems and the public accept this fact. I don't see that happening any time soon.

[Robeson]

18. Agree...

...until a lot of Dems wake up, and realize this isn't the peachy keen system they were taught about in their American Civics class, then this will keep happening. Dems need to be united on this.

[Cha]

21. I,forcefully, Agree!

THe question is how are we going to Do Something About It?!

[Catherine Vincent]

29. Love that! Is that a bumper sticker?

If it isn't, it should be.

[Cha]

36. I got it from here~

Thanks to HubertFlotz..

http://www.cafepress.com/selfx

And it's making me feel better right NOW!

[Amaya]

23. I've said it from the beginning

dupe again.

[laruemtt]

26. the media are now all about

"they're not so angry this time because they know it was a fair fight." barf. and f*ck them all. they're preemptively discrediting anyone who questions the validity of the election.

[PretzelWarrior]

27. EXACTLY and the media is unquestioningly supporting the fraud

because that is what they do. They stand aside whilst the villain rapes the damsel in distress. then, after the deed is done, they talk to each other and commisserate over how they should have stepped in. but now that they are willing to talk about it and admit their fault after the fact...all is well in their world.

[Mick Knox]

28. We got our ass kicked

But if it makes you feel better to wallow around and say they stole it.. have fun. It gives people an excuse not to fight in the future. Its a lame excuse.

WE LOST because we didnt get the votes.

But do democrats try to fix the problems that cost us votes?

No, we like to play tin hat theory instead.

Much easier than fixing the fucked up D party.

Hope you feel better though, thats all that really counts.

[dubyaD40web]

30. We need to do both - fix the party, and the black boxes

I'm all about becoming a 21st century Carrie Nation - this time to black boxes instead of moonshine stills. You show me a voting machine with no paper trail, and I'll show you how fast I can turn it into a worthless pile of plastic, wire, and metal.

We may be screwed on the outcome of this one, but paperless voting machines make it so easy to manipulate the vote without leaving a trace that they'd be fools not to take advantage of it. We have to stop making it so easy for them, and giving them the temptation. I mean, if they're gonna steal another one, let's at least try to make sure there's some evidence next time.

You think with the number of DU'ers out there, we can get quantity discounts on hatchets?

[omnithrope]

32. I agree completely.

People are just burying their head in the sand.

[laruemtt]

34. please, zwade, if the evidence is mounting

that in fact the machines were rigged to lessen dem totals, how is this tinfoil? i'm serious. please tell me. we could contort ourselves into being more left, more centrist, more progressive, or any other mutation you can think of, but if the machines that count the totals are rigged, we'll never be able to hit on that "magic formula" to get more votes - that count, that is.....

[AnIndependentTexan]

33. THEY STOLE IT PAY ATTENTION

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1318200&mesg_id=1318200

[robbedvoter]

35. You forgot 2002! Exit polls flipped there too- Ga, Minn, Fla

[DancingBear]

37. Thank you, everyone

I sit here hoping against hope that someone out there is going to try and make this stick.

I've also checked in with BBV, asking if there is anything I can do to help. I'll send money shortly - this is a wonderful way to help, BTW, because I know they are short of funds.

[m berst]

41. it is beyond imagination

Great post DB. People are so caught up in the soap opera of the election, and so worried about how they feel about things.

You would think that it would be great news to everyone that the country has NOT chosen hate.

The job at hand is saving the country - the preservation of Democracy- in the face of a very real and immediate threat, and always was. Has everyone forgotten everything we know about the people around the Bush administration?

Unchallenged stolen elections render democracy unworkable. This recent election was irrelevant - all elections are irrelevant - since the 2000 election was stolen and people rolled over for that.

Now people are ready to roll over for another stolen election. I don't get it.

Karl Rove says that the country is a different country than you and I know it to be, and those gay-hating fundies just came out in DROVES, right? Suddenly their membership just leaped in numbers in time for this election.

Every single piece of evidence says that Rove's explanation is false. 51% of the people DID NOT suddenly all become theocrats. It is not credible to imagine that they did or could have. Where is the evidence of a sudden increase in membership of fundamentalist churches? Why on earth are Democrats buying this explanation?

[DancingBear]

43. kick

:kick: