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Xithras Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 01:22 PM
Original message
So much for "electability"
If you aren't in the mood for a rant, skip this thread. I have a few things to get off my chest which I realize will irritate many here, but they need to be said (I'll keep it civil).

First, the DEMOCRATIC PARTY lost this election. It wasn't voter suppression, electronic voting, hidden polling places, a lack of youth outreach, Nader, or any of the other excuses I've seen waved around on the various liberal boards across the Internet. The reality is much, much simpler, and now that the election is over, it can be spoken aloud. We lost because we ran the wrong candidate.

Whether or not we like it or agree with it, there is a popular perception in America, fed by newspaper articles, radio talk show hosts, and street corner political discussion, that the Democratic and Republican parties are simply two faces to the same political machine. Sure, you and I know the truth, we can recite the differences between the parties as easily as we can recite the ABC's, but we are the minority. We have spent four years on these boards and across the country railing against Bush and his policies. We have spent four years plotting his downfall. We have spent four years waiting for the day that he would be thrown out.

And we blew it. We blew it because we forgot the simple reality that most Americans only get political in the weeks and months leading up to the election. To them, the things that we hold dear and think about daily are merely distant abstractions to be analyzed once every four years. To them, "Democrats" and "Republicans" are simply two halves to the same government machine, and that nothing really changes when the White House switches hands because they both have the same agenda. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. That song has been sung for decades, and we still haven't learned the tune.

We needed someone to break that mold. America is a scared nation. Our citizens are scared of another 9/11, they're scared that Beslan could happen here, they're scared that bombs could go off in their malls and grocery stores, and they're scared that their entire way of life is coming to an end. To them, George Bush is a known quantity, and John Kerry, while appearing legitimate, offered little to improve or reassure them.

We needed a candidate who would attack Bush on the Iraq war. One who would REALLY lay into him over the dead, and to take him to task and keep on message about the real reasons we're there...OIL. Instead we got vague references to it being the "wrong war" coupled with promises to send MORE troops to "do the job right".

We needed a candidate who could connect with the working men and women in this country. Someone who could show America that he was one of them, and that he could honestly understand their plight and show them the way up the social and economic ladder. Instead we got another Boston blue-blood who exuded demure aristocracy beside his billionaire heiress wife.

We needed a candidate who would show America how Bush's trade policies are destroying the American middle class and eliminating any chance that America's poor could move up. He needed to show everyone in this nation how NAFTA and international free trade was destroying America's technology sector, it's manufacturing base, and its unions. Instead we got vague talk about "fixing the economy" and a pointed statement that "Free trade isn't going away".

We needed a candidate with FIRE in his speech. Someone who could light up a room, spread hope, and get the attention of America and the world. Instead, we got another Al Gore. Wooden, monotonous, bland, and boring.

Above all, we needed a candidate who was different, and in John Kerry we got more of the same. Only the old rules don't work any more, and the John Kerry's of the world are no longer "electable".

We had candidates who fit that mold...several, in fact. We had candidates who would have attacked Bush on every subject from gay rights to the war to the economy and the intelligence failures that led to 9/11. So why didn't THEY get the nod? "Electability". Surely you all remember the meme "Yeah, they're all great candidates, but what's important is 'electability'". Where's that electability now? Somewhere along the line someone in the DNC decided that "electability=bland", and started the mantra that John Kerry was the only electable candidate. Across the Internet, around the nation, and on this very board, those of us who wanted a REAL candidate were attacked relentlessly by those of you who anointed John Kerry the "chosen one" who bore the holy mantle of electability. You called us unrealistic, but we said, over, and over, and over again, that John Kerry didn't have the fire, the determination, the politics, or the spirit to win this election, and we were blasted at every turn for it.

You all know who you are, and I hope you know this as well: YOU bear the responsibility for this loss. You're mindless determination to suppress all dissent in the hopes that we could elect "Anyone But Bush" instead led to the nomination of a man who, while technically qualified, had no name recognition, no fiery political convictions, and no natural base. You forced the nomination of a man who opposed many of the things liberals want, and who supported many of the things we want eradicated. And then you buried anyone who tried to offer him any real competition.

Believe it or not, I am not writing this screed to attack any of you, but instead out of the hope that you can learn from your mistakes. Contrary to what many of the dejected and morose on this board have to say, we will survive the next four years, and we will run against Bush's chosen successor in 2008. But first we must look at the mistakes of this election, and we must hold our party leaders accountable. Terry McAuliffe must go. Bill Clinton needs to get off the stage, and the old party aristocracy needs to step aside. If the Democratic Party is ever going to control this nation again, it needs to look at this election and take its lessons to heart.

Our party needs to redefine itself as the party of the working man and woman. Above everything else, we need to start pushing social issues and demonstrate to the American people that we are here to push THEIR interests, not the interests of the boardrooms and stockholders. We need to demonstrate that we want a STRONGER and SAFER America, but that strength and safety don't mean despotic new laws and nuclear weapons. Across the board, we need to push the progressive causes, from the environment, to the economy, to gay rights and abortion, that drove so many people to our party in the first place. And we need LEADERS to do it. Not simply talking robots who pay lip service the party line at conventions and in flat campaign speeches, but raging firebrands who can excite America and motivate our people to aspire to something better. We need a candidate who can ignite America's passions, and spark our imaginations.

Please remember that in 2007. We don't need any more John Kerry's, no more Al Gores, and please, put your Jimmy Carters away. Whether or not you liked him, we need a Dean, a Kucinich, or any one of the other genuine liberal voices that are spread throughout our party. Better yet, give us a woman, a southern Black, or a Southwestern Hispanic. We need to show America that we are different because, from where I stand, they just aren't getting the message. Beyond that, we need a CAUSE. When was the last time our party stood united behind something simply because it was the right thing to do? Where is the civil rights movement, or the womens lib for the 21st century? We need to show America that we WILL change their lives, and for the better. We need to get the message out that we're not here to be moderates, but that we're here to change America for the better! Our party has lost that message somehow, and unless we find it again I fear that we will continue to lose our grip on this nation. We must stand up against irrelevance, even if it means upsetting the Old Guard within our own party.

I love my nation, I love my party, and I hold tremendous respect for everyone who worked in any way to unseat Bush, but sometimes the kindest thing you can do for those you love is to speak the truth...no matter how painful it may be.

With love, Xith
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 01:26 PM
Response to Original message
1. Hillary?
I like the idea - but do you?

:-)
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aden_nak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Hillary will never pick up a Red State.
And clearly, we can't win without a few of them.
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NYCGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. And she'd lose a few of the blue ones, too. (eom)
NT
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The Chronicler Donating Member (678 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #1
9. Hillary Clinton would get SLAUGHTERED (nm)
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aden_nak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 01:26 PM
Response to Original message
2. While I think Kerry did the best he could, he was never my first pick.
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Snivi Yllom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 01:27 PM
Response to Original message
4. Dean was the right choice
but it does not mean we can't start fresh today and purge the DLC/DNC

So much for Kerry being the great closer and all of the other things we were spoon fed about him.

I want the party to be sandblasted clean of the old guard.
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OneBlueSky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 01:30 PM
Response to Original message
6. wouldn't have mattered who we ran . . .
the fix was in from the get-go . . .
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Xithras Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #6
15. See, I don't buy that
Honestly, I've had my suspicions that Kerry would lose for weeks, but I've kept them to myself out of fear of being shouted down...or worse, being accused of being a freeper troll.

I work at a college, a traditionally liberal environment, and over the last few weeks have been repeatedly struck by the intense disinterest that many of my supposedly "liberal" co-workers and students have expressed towards the Presidential race. There was FAR more interest in the local measures and propositions than in the race to determine our national leader. The reasons? Over and over again, I heard how BOTH candidates "sucked", how there was no difference between them, and how Kerry wouldn't really change anything.

Talking to people today, I've learned that most of the kids in my morning class, even those who appeared to be fired up about the election, never even bothered to vote! Why? When I asked, the answers I got were all variations on "It doens't really matter anyway."

Sorry, but we didn't lose this election because it was fixed (though I do concede the possibility of tampering in some isolated areas), we lost it because we FAILED to fire up most of the nation. Kerry did a great job of firing up the Democratic base, but most of that base would vote for ANYBODY the Democratic Party ran. What we needed was someone who would fire up AMERICA, and we didn't get it. That failure cost us this election.
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Call me Deacon Blues Donating Member (512 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 01:32 PM
Response to Original message
7. You'll get no argument from me . . .
We need to find leaders from outside the "old boy" network. I like and admire Hillary Clinton, but I think nominating her in 2008 is a recipe for disaster. And while is Mr. Obama is certainly attractive, that doesn't necessarily make him what we're looking for. Maybe our leader needs to find US rather than the other way around.
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derbstyron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Ominous words from the beginning...
I thought there might be trouble when I read (or heard) that the Dems and/or Kerry thought they could take the election without winning the south. Then they said that they hoped to "compete". I was never a big Kerry fan. I was for Edwards and hoped that his addition would help us out. Obviously it didn't
I speak as a Floridian and a Democrat (apparently a rare breed) but we will not take the WH until we can compete in the South.
I don't know how (or, more importantly, who) is going to do that.
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 01:40 PM
Response to Original message
10. And election reform. Gotta have that too.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
FIGHT for election reform at the municipal and state level!
Clean up the American government from the ground up!
http://www.geocities.com/greenpartyvoter/electionreform
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chefgirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 01:42 PM
Response to Original message
11. Sorry
Everything you said 'sounds' quite logical, but as far as I'm concerned its just more of the same 'if only' hand wringing thats been going on.

John Kerry is a good and decent, honest man who has spent his life fighting for Liberal causes, and in a sane America, he should have won easily. He is a statesman and Bush is a fucking adolescent.

As far as I'm concerned the only mistake John Kerry made was not having an 'R' in front of his name.

This country has turned to the right and its time we accept that, and work toward turning them back to the left. It won't be easy and it wont be quick.

This, of course, is assuming we still have the right to vote in 2008.


-chef
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Xithras Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #11
19. That America will never exist again
Yes, I agree that at one time a man like Kerry could have carried the presidency, but that America doesn't exist anymore and never will again. I'm not attacking Kerry as a person, I think he is an honest and respectable man, and I hope he has a long career in the Senate.

But as far as I can see, our party has two choices right now.

1) We can bury our progressive attitudes and play the Republicans game by running only conservative Democrats for now on...essentially trying to "out-Republican" the Republicans.

2) We can show America the absurdity of the Republican position by running genuine populists for now on. Show America the difference between a "Party for the People" and a "Party for the Priveledged". We cannot do that by running wishy-washy moderates.

Kerry may be a good man, but his type can no longer run this nation. We need to look at where America is going, and decide which road we want to take in order to lead them there. I will never accept option #1.
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DrFunkenstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 01:45 PM
Response to Original message
12. With Dean, We Would Have Heard About Raising Taxes
Kerry avoided alot of the pitfalls that Dean would have fallen into. I have all the respect in the world for Howard Dean, but I seriously don't believe it would have been this close. Dean's style worked well for the base, but would have been a nightmare against the 24 hour newschannels (worse than Kerry, that is).
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killbotfactory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #12
27. People didn't care about taxes
They cared about god, gays, and terrorism.

And I'm willing to bet Kerry lost credibility with some people by claiming he could reduce the defecit and give people healthcare and a chicken in every pot.
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roseBudd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
13. No candidate could have been unscathed by the slime, mockery
and hatred the GOP unleashed.

Bush supporters voted their so-called morality. Being prochoice hurts us when the issue is framed as so-called partial birth abortion.

Kuccinish or Dean would have been slaughtered. You saw them creat Kerry hatred overnight. Hillary is already hated.

They won because they used fear. Our positions DO NOT lend themselves to TV commercials and the majority of Bush supporters will not invest the time to become informed AND they willfully avoid information that challenges their worldview.

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Cat Atomic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
14. An openly liberal candidate would be smashed.
And I say that as a Kucinich volunteer and proud liberal.

The media is owned by the far right. The government is owned by the far right. There is only one thing that will end that, and it's severe hardship. I mean hunger, unemployment, and all the rest. I hate to say it, but it's true.
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 01:57 PM
Response to Original message
16. Beutifully said, and absolutely correct in all regards.
The party still works under the delusion that dressing in jeans and cowboy boots and sounding like a moderate republican will win elections.

That prinicples and ideals are obstacles to "winning".

That moving to the right will suck in "moderate" votes.

That basing their stance based on polls is smart.

I can still see Gephardt cuddling up to Bush in the Rose Garden, and Lieberman warning us about the threat of the "leftist fringe" and the necessity of backing the IWR. And, the Democratic "leaders" signing on to the war. And, Kerry on his ridiculous "hunting" trip.

We lost because we offered nothing to the electorate but "not quite as much of the same."

Perhaps the Democratic Party should consider the possibility of actually standing for somthing other than being "not as bad" as the Republicans.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 01:57 PM
Response to Original message
17. We had such a candidate!
We needed a candidate who would attack Bush on the Iraq war. One who would REALLY lay into him over the dead, and to take him to task and keep on message about the real reasons we're there...OIL.

We needed a candidate who could connect with the working men and women in this country.

We needed a candidate who would show America how Bush's trade policies are destroying the American middle class and eliminating any chance that America's poor could move up.

We needed a candidate with FIRE in his speech. Someone who could light up a room, spread hope, and get the attention of America and the world. Instead, we got another Al Gore. Wooden, monotonous, bland, and boring.

Above all, we needed a candidate who was different, and in John Kerry we got more of the same. Only the old rules don't work any more, and the John Kerry's of the world are no longer "electable".


We needed Wes Clark......that's my view.

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togiak Donating Member (114 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 02:01 PM
Response to Original message
18. Dangerous recipe
The problem is that the Democratic party runs a risk of taking from this election that they need to move more to the right. We may end up seeing more Democratic candidates who are anti-abortion, anti-tax, highly religious, etc...etc. I hate to say this but I have never in my life seen the Democratic party have any balls or brains. Clinton has been the only effective democrat that I know of.
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Kerry in 04 Donating Member (232 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 02:07 PM
Response to Original message
20. We won. It was stolen.
And nobody will fight it. KErry just gave up.
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MagicBoy Donating Member (12 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
21. Coward
Kerry proved the Repugs right. He had no backbone for a fight. He laid down and rolled over the moment it looked tough.

Coward.
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Catt03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 02:11 PM
Response to Original message
22. This was about God, guns and gays
that was decided by poor who vote rich this election.

It was between "us and them".......period.

And that will not change unless we decide we want to give up our values to meet theirs
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Xithras Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. You are WRONG
We do NOT have to give up our liberal ideals in order to take this country back, we need to embrace them.

We lost this election because we didn't offer the voters anything. Our campaign positions boiled down to "Vote Kerry because he's not Bush", and "Vote Democratic because we're not Republicans". There was NEVER any real drive, NEVER a promise made about what would be improved, and NEVER a reason given why the average voter would be better off under Kerry. We played the role of moderate and got trounced in the polls, and then switched to Republican-lite for the final defeat. The people just didn't buy our argument...and why should they have? Why vote for Republican-lite when you can have the real thing?

We need to stop being Republican-lite, and get away from the compromising centrism. We need to stand up for our beliefs and show America the way to a better life. We need to show those Republican-voting rural poor how Democratic policies will make their lives better. We need to show the southern Republicans how the Democratic principles of freedom will lead to more independence and less big-brotherism. We need to reach out to them with the LIBERAL values that will IMPROVE their lives, and show them the idiocy of their support for a party that keeps them down. Even to the Christians, we must echo Jesus' calls for peaceful relations with our neighbors, and point out the absurdity of Christian support of a party built around wealth creation for the priveledged few (Jesus himself said that there are no rich people in Heaven, and that true faith requires casting off your worldy goods and helping your stuggling bretheren.) We must either embrace our progressivism, or give up on liberal politics entirely.

I'm not a quitter.
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 02:24 PM
Response to Original message
23. Well, I still think it was fixed
Maybe as a Canadian, I should keep quiet, but when I saw how the results were deviating from the exit polls, I thought then there was massive fraud occurring. Most people don't like to admit this possibility, and I don't blame them. It is extremely threatening to one's world view. But, there it is.

Kerry should have not thrown in the towel until after the Ohio provisional votes were counted. It would have kept the focus on the investigation to vote fraud. But now, it will be "move on" time. You can already see this in the media.

I fear I have seen my last honest U.S. national election for quite some time, and just hope this doesn't spill over the border. If it was just America, I guess I could ignore it, but I feel great pity for what the world will go through now. There will be continuing warfare and death, on a scale not seen since Viet Nam.
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Tweed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 02:26 PM
Response to Original message
24. Kerry lost by less than 200,000 votes
He was damn close
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killbotfactory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #24
28. Against a bumbling turd of a man who got us into an unnecessary war
Bush should have lost by a landslide.
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Praetor Donating Member (21 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 02:31 PM
Response to Original message
26. Amen
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