Thanks to the inbred, redneck, Bible-besotted Solid South,

[fdr_hst_fan]

we're saddled with the village idiot and his Nazi followers for another four years.

The next time the South wants to cecede, I say "Let 'em!" Who needs 'em? In fact, to facilitate matters, we should help them pack! And once they're finally GONE from the Union, we should construct a wall, not unlike the Berlin Wall, to keep them out! I guarantee, after three to five years, they'll come back on bended knee, BEGGING for re-admission to the Union. Then we'll be able to call the tune from that point on!

That's the error Lincoln and Andrew Johnson made: they wanted to be "conciliatory" to the Confederacy. Horse hockey! They STARTED that war; they didn't DESERVE any consideration! They didn't stop to consider their actions at Fort Sumter, did they?

:mad: :puke:

[AspenRose]

1. The midwest looks pretty red to me

And my state may go red today (NM)...we've been the only blue in a sea of red in the west.

So it's not just the south. Posts like this just demoralize democratic southerners.

This is supposed to be 'help and support.' If you're that angry, post in the other section (acrimony).

[fdr_hst_fan]

7. To tell the truth,

I'm inclinde to sell the Louisiana Purchas BACK to FRANCE! And while we're at it, I wouldn't be sorry to see New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada and California revert to Mexico again, either!

:mad: :evilgrin:

[GRLMGC]

9. CA?

sorry but we've been faithfully blue for awhile AND we have the most electoral votes

[Shakespeare]

15. Have you looked at a county-by-county map?

It's predominantly red. Only LA and the bay area are blue.

[GRLMGC]

18. Yeah

but most of the population lives there and that's why we go blue, not to mention the blue people in the red areas. I will the be first to admit that we have a lot of rednecks here but they don't control our state's electoral votes!

[Shakespeare]

20. The margin was 52-48.

That's a pretty damn close margin for what's supposed to be the most liberal state in the union. That huge chunk of the state IS significant, and ought to give ALL of us in California pause.

[GRLMGC]

23. Yes

that really upset me. That means that the Republicans are gonna campaign here in 2008. I'm not giving up though. I'm gonna fight for progressive ideals and get CA back to where it should be. I'm upset but I haven't given up hope. Maybe i'm too idealistic.

[siliconefreak]

28. Where did you see that?

CNN has California 55-44 for Kerry.

[slackmaster]

43. San Diego County went red

If you put a finer magnification on the picture, it's a patchwork of red and blue as well with (predictably) the reddest parts being rural areas and upper-class suburbs like La Jolla and Point Loma, and the bluest being urban.

Failure to understand this diversity can kill us.

For an interesting high-level history of California politics, see this eye-opener: http://www.infospect.com/Governors.htm

[slackmaster]

45. Note the absence of calls to abolish the Electoral College here

In the case of California the EC worked in Kerry's favor, at least the state's winner-take-all system (which is the norm among states).

[JI7]

19. the blue areas is where most of the people live

[RinaJ]

29. We can't just keep counting on the big cities

52-48 is too damn close.

[AspenRose]

11. Then that only leaves you Kansas....Indiana....Oklahoma...

You going to try to send the breadbasket to another country too?

Blaming the south (or the southwest) does NOTHING.

[American Tragedy]

46. Yeah, we don't need California's 55 electoral votes!

[LoZoccolo]

12. So does the west.

Plus, Wyoming and Utah have more disproportionate electoral votes than the southern states. But they don't have the cultural history of being stereotyped so what the fuck, let's just go after southerners.

[BJ]

2. Maybe the South should have won the Civil War.

Then they could enjoy the third-world status they so richly deserve.

[amazona]

6. many already "enjoy" third world status

Been to the Delta lately? The people who are still suffering most in the region are the poorest of the poor and often descendents of share-croppers and slaves. It is not the rich descendent of some fine old plantation family who is inconvenienced by poverty and injustice.

[bluedonkey]

3. Take a deep breath

Not everybody in the South is a redneck,bible thumber!

Don't blame!ORGANIZE!

[fdr_hst_fan]

10. Orgainization can't win

against Bible-thumpers who use the Bible as a litmus test for one's loyalty. That's why I'm an atheist-all organized religions, of whatever stripe, all think THEY are the TRUE WAY! How egotistical can you get?

:mad:

[Nicky Scarfo]

4. The problem was not finishing Reconstruction. I say we reinvade and

finish the job.

[demnan]

5. without the west

the south would have been inmaterial. Without conservatives in the mid-west we could have gone majority blue.

[kayell]

8. Fuck off. Thank Diebold.

[Lex]

13. The Democrats did really well in our NC state races.

NC Dems take over House, Strengthen Grip in Senate

The NC Dem Governor wins 2nd term handily.

The first openly gay state Senator is elected in a relatively conservative part of the state.


I just don't get it.

[BiggJawn]

14. Don't forget their Northern Colony.....

INDIANA!!!

[NoSheep]

16. Dems regit'd uneducated voters who were confused. That's where the votes

went.

[Syrinx]

17. have you looked at the fucking map asshole?

[killbotfactory]

21. The American Taliban is victorious

God be praised.

Four more years of failure, and the rapture will soon be upon us.

Oh glory of glories.

[T Town Jake]

22. Ummm...Ohio, Kansas, New Mexico, Indiana, Nevada, Idaho...

...Montana, Arizona, Missouri, Wyoming...last I checked none of those states were part of the "inbred, redneck, Bible-besotted Solid South." And they all went for *W.

[QC]

26. True, but these assholes are only interested in easy scapegoating,

not facts or strategy or anything like that.

If Bush had only done well in the South, we would be celebrating Kerry's victory right now. Truth is, there are vast stretches of the country where Democrats are about as popular as the clap, including the plains states, Ohio, the mountain states, the southwest, etc.

But, like I say, the point for most of the people in this thread is to assign blame, and so reality means nothing here.

[T Town Jake]

37. Well put, and exactly right. (n/t)

[drdigi420]

34. if you dont think misouri, wyoming, and montana are redneck

then there probably is no point discussing anything with you

[T Town Jake]

36. "then there probably is no point discussing anything with you"

...and the downside for me is?

[Dob Bole]

24. We're not the reason Bush is in the WH...YOU ARE!!!!

"inbred, redneck, Bible-besotted Solid South"

That's the victory strategy we tried this year. Why don't we try it again, and see how many votes we get next time?

[QC]

32. Amen, brother!

But you will never get these precious little pseudoprogressives to understand that holding the common people in contempt is not a good way to get their votes. Many of us here have tried to make that case, and frankly I don't think it's worth the trouble anymore.

Maybe losing two or three more elections to Bushes will get their attention. And that's what's going to happen so long as so many in our party view everyone who lives between the two coasts as subhumans.

[Dorian Gray]

50. QC

You are SOOOOO right! Thank you for your reasonable words.

This "blame game" is really annoying me right now! We need to look at our message and why it may be turning people off. If we figure that out, we can either tweak it or argue our positions better so that people know where we are coming from.

[QC]

70. Thanks! n/t

[lynintenn]

53. exactly

[MUSTANG_2004]

56. Thank you!

For the people who think Georgia is incapable of voting anything but Republican, I'll point out that Georgia went for Clinton in 1992. The problem in 2004 wasn't Georgia, it was the candidate the Democratic Party chose.

[Ripley]

61. Did you know that more people in GA voted for John Kennedy than

people in Massachusetts? I found that a shocking statistic. Granted the original JFK didn't have to take a stand on polarizing issues like abortion and Gay marriage.

There are many factors that have made the red states red...talk radio, in fact ALL media propaganda, intense widespread evangelical grassroots movement and repuke dirty tricks. But one other factor is the disdain with which they are held by some Northern Liberals. They make fun of them saying "yall" yet every time I hear a black rapper talk, he says "yall" and isn't heckled. But we're supposed to just accept that Kerry's pronunciation of idea (ideaR) is smart and correct instead of these things just being regional differences.

[Borgnine]

25. I'm already headed back up to New England.

I see last night I got my suitcases out, ready to pack. If only I had somwhere up there to go, and the money. Hell, I'm still in college, but I can't stay down here one more minute.

[LizW]

27. Just stop it.

That's all. Stop it. Now.

[siliconefreak]

30. Stop it?

Who the hell are you to tell people to shut up?

[hughee99]

31. That's right!

Since they don't agree with us, the solution is to not count their votes anymore... Let's kick out the 28+ states that * won! Then, we won't have a divided nation anymore. From then on, anytime a state remaining in our union doesn't vote for our guy (watch out NH!), we'll kick them out too! Is there anything better than democracy in action?

Either that, or to all you "inbred, redneck, Bible-besotted southerners"... why won't you vote for us? We're looking out for all of you idiots. Vote for us because we know what's best for you!

[KamaAina]

33. How about the Rocky Mountain West

just as besotted and perhaps even more gun-obsessed?

Your basic inbred, redneck, Bible-besotted repuke could get in his red SUV down in Florida, loading a few dozen rigged voting machines in the back first, and drive clear up to Idaho without hitting a single blue state, or even having to make any detours to avoid a blue state.

Then he could dump the voting machines out back of the Aryan Nations compound...

[smitty]

35. inbred cracker speaks

Hey asshole, come on down to North Carolina and repeat your idiotic rant here. Ignorant, bigoted people like you are part of the reason for the "solid South".

[ncgrits]

38. Couldn't have said it better myself!

The All-Southerners-Are-Inbred-Idiots line of argument is part of the PROBLEM.

[chimp chump]

41. this attitude is the problem.

When you look at the Democratic party as a whole, there are too many people who scorn religion, who want to grab guns, who love animals and nature but hate people, and who want to impose homosexual marriage/adoption/benefits on the country via the courts in a replay of Roe, still a judicial fait accompli that is strongly resented and which remains a poor model of how we should evolve our social policy.

Look at how Kerry (wisely) went hunting and talked about gun ownership, recall how he talked at length about the role of faith in his life and his background as an altar boy. Kerry gets it. But way too many rank-and-file Democrats simply do not.

If you want the votes of Red America, you'd better stop sneering at their love of guns for hunting and protection and their devotion to Christianity (which isn't even all that devout).

I don't think Kerry lost because anyone thought he would (could) spend more money than Bush. And no serious person thinks he would handle Iraq or WOT much differently either.

Kerry lost because of the (correct) perception in many parts of the country that Democrats as a party hate religion and gun ownership and don't respect traditional marriage. First, it cost the House in '92. Then the White House went GOP but Democrats managed to encourage a defection to gain majority control. After less than two years, in 2002 the GOP got a slim majority again. And yesterday, they got to 55. Give it another two years without a strong course correction by the DNC, and the Democrat senators that remain will hold less than 40 seats and will no longer be able even to filibuster. And that's when corporate interests and other Democrat fundraising and political constituencies will lose interest in supporting any Democrat for office because they won't be able to deliver anything in return.

It's about that simple. I don't think yesterday's losses were even a rejection of Kerry per se. He did surprisingly well in fact against an incumbent war president who is always hard to defeat. It was a rejection of what the Democratic party has become and how they are dominated by far-Left interest groups who offend the voting majority in this country. There are signs that Democrats are getting a clue about the gun thing. But not about the Bible thing.

I hate to sound like Buchanan but it really is a culture war. And Democrats need to at least locate the battlefield so they can actually fight.

[lynintenn]

54. yup

[chimp chump]

39. kick

[Romulus Quirinus]

66. There's a little town in NC called "Asheville"

Where people would both

a) take violent umbrage to this post

and

b) vote Dem no matter what

Of course, it is much easier to blame those "other people" you never have to see.

It makes you feel better. That's what's important, right?

[marano]

40. I live there....

and you nailed it.

[Raiden]

42. "the inbred, redneck, Bible-besotted Solid South"

This attitude is part of the problem. We accuse the Republicans of being elitist and holier than thou, but when some of our own make these kinds of assertions, how can we claim moral superiority? Let's review, shall we... We lost not only the South, but the West, and the Midwest. So, why is it that the South is "inbred, redneck, Bible-besotted?" I am from Kentucky. My state went 60%-40% Bush, and I am disappointed, but how can you expect to pull Southerners back into our column if we marginalize them. As a Southerner, I am offeneded that you would consider me, as well as people I know and love to be "inbred, redneck, and Bible-besotted." Maybe if we stop writing off the South, we could do better there. How many Southern States did Kerry campaign in? Knowing what we know now, how many should he have? We as a party need to refocus our Southern Strategy. Dean, as usual, was right when he addressed this in the primaries, and was it any shock that he was quickly silenced? Dean was absolutely right. We need to convince people with Confederate Flag decals on their trucks that they should be voting with the Democrats and not with the Republicans. How do we do it? Simple...

-For starters, let's not call Southerners "inbred rednecks."

-God---Simple really. We need to start a serious nation discussion about the role of faith in our society. We need to convince people to follow the teachings of Christ, instead of living by the archaic guidelines outlined in the Old Testament. CHRISTianity is about CHRIST and trying with all your power to live like Christ. Also, we need to invite Christians (especially the Christian Left) back into our party.

-Guns---This issue absolutely kills us in the South and in the West. We need to adopt a pragmatic gun control platform for state and local areas instead of federal gun control; that way, small, rural states with low gun fatality rates can implement minimal gun control, and large, urban areas with high gun fatality rates can implement strict gun control. On the federal level, all we need to do is restrict convicted felons from purchasing guns and ban assault weapons. It's a surprisingly simple and acceptable solution to a very controversial issue.

-Gays---This one's a toughy... We need to convince people in the Bible Belt that Gays DO NOT pose a threat to their day-to-day existence and that the Republicans are only ostracizing gays to further push their agenda. Gays are only being used as a wedge to get Southerners to vote against their best economic interests.


Other Issues Relevent to the South...

-The Environment---We need to make the environment a much bigger issue. It is something that effects everybody, and we greatly value the environment here in the South as well. We need to ask people what good is it for a hunter to own a gun if there are no forests to hunt in? Even an "inbred redneck" Southerner can understand that. The environment is something that we must preserve and protect and I assure you, we want REAL Clean Skies and Healthy Forests here in the South.

-Welfare---Welfare Reform in the 1990's was a major step back for the progress of social programs. In the South specifically, there are a lot of people who are in dire need of economic assistance. Under the Welfare Reform Act, welfare can only be collected for a maximum of 5 years, regardless of need. In the South, a lot of people resent the fact that people can draw welfare, just for being lazy, and I concur; however, by limiting the amount of welfare that could be recieved, we only hurt the people who really and truly needed it, mainly children. I think that the Democratic Party should propose real Welfare Reform. One problem with welfare is that the social workers involved have NO POWER. We need to change that. I think that people who are applying for welfare should have to provide a list of necessities and present it to the social worker, who shall approve them and check reciepts and stuff like that and make sure that the money is being used appropriately. Anyone who abuses the system should be rightfully charged with fraud and put in prison.

-Healthcare---This issue affects everybody, but sadly, it is often ignored for those 'moral values.' We need to propose Universal Health Care and we need to get people involved at the grassroots level to petition the government for it. It's gotten to the point where people cannot afford to be sick anymore, and the insurance companies and HMOs are only making it worse by exploiting the consumers. We need to take on the insurance companies and pursue healthcare for all Americans. We need to give people access to cheaper drugs from Canada (if Canadian vaccines are good enough for us, why should prescription drugs be any different?) and we need to push much harder for stem cell research.

-Social Security--When we're talking about Social Security, we're talking about life and death for many of our senior citizens. We need to make sure that Seniors know the dangers of privatizing Social Security. It seems like a good idea--freedom to choose what to do with YOUR money--but many benefits are lost. Also, if the Republicans have their way, your money will be invested, which is fine and dandy if you get good stock, however, what if you invest in an ENRON, or if you lose all of your money in the stock market. The goverment cannot allow our seniors to gamble with their life savings.

-Hemp---Okay, this is a small one, but it could really help. With the tobacco industry falling apart, especially in my state of Kentucky, many tobacco farmers are losing out. Hemp is a reasonable alternative to tobacco that has countless uses and is very environmentally friendly. There are so many reasons to legalize hemp that I don't know where to begin. We need to pursue hemp legalization as an alternative energy source and as a big economic plus. I'm suprised it hasn't already been legalized.

[jdj]

44. from this inbred, redneck, bible-besotted southerner,

I would have to agree. With the sentiment of anger (not secession) But curiously,there are way too many racist, fascist rich people moving here from other areas, so we can't take all the credit.

I would add people keep forgetting DU has a strong demographic about it and it is not representative of the stats of the democratic party, I don't think

[Spider Jerusalem]

47. THis is obnoxious and also wrong.

I live in the South, but don't consider myself a Southerner. Even so, I have to take issue with what you say.

The Midwest, West and Mountain states ALSO went heavily for Bush; I don't see you throwing any acid in their direction. Not everyone in the South is an inbred religious zealot; but, obviously, you and a lot of other "tolerant" people here don't give a fuck....this seems to be the only acceptable form of bigotry and stereotype left on this board, for some reason.

And what the hell is this? "That's the error Lincoln and Andrew Johnson made: they wanted to be "conciliatory" to the Confederacy." I imagine you've never heard of Radical Reconstruction? Hardly conciliatory, and it happened during Johnson's Presidency (and Grant's).

[Ripley]

51. Nope, Southern female bashing is the #1 acceptable bigotry here.

It's funny how these non-Southerners tell everyone how they can address African-Americans, how much we owe them, etc. Yet when they talk about Georgia or North Carolina, they seem completely unaware that there are huge populations of AA's in these states. They run many southern state legislatures. They go do evangelical churches. They vote R nationally. Yet they insist they oh wise ones who have never been to the south, because they're scared to, that it's only racist white people who vote R.

I'm about ready to step out of here for the last time. This place will surely eat it's own and end up with the same kind of echo chamber that Freepville is.

[lynintenn]

57. thinking the same thing

[DemBones DemBones]

62. Try being a Southern female Catholic,

like me. Bashed on all counts! :grr:

[Ripley]

63. Okay, you win!

Sorry for that.

:hi:

[Dorian Gray]

48. I'm getting really sick of these topics....

Sorry, but, despite being "city folk," I find these posts to be highly insulting. (I live in NYC, so it doesn't address me or any of my family, all born and raised in Blue States.) Regardless, I'm tired of seeing all the blame pointed to those who live in the South. There are plenty of progressive and liberal minded people who live in the South, and even in... GASP... Texas. So, despite the fact that they "started" the Civil War over 140 YEARS ago, I don't see any reason to pour blanket hatred on them.

I can't beleive the blame game that is going on here. We lost an election. Rather than blaming whole sections of our country, perhaps it is time to pick ourselves up, wipe our pants off, and get to work on issues that we believe to be really important. And work toward getting a Democrat or Progressive candidate elected in 2008. Not to mention getting some of our seats back in 2006!

[lynintenn]

49. and that my friends

is what will keep the red states red

[MUSTANG_2004]

52. OK, if that's your attitude

then I'll say the same thing about the idiots who thought a Massachusetts far-left liberal was the best choice to defeat Bush.

When looking at the past 40 years, why would anyone think that choosing Dukakis Part 2 was a good idea?

[kwolf68]

55. well not really

The problem whether those of us on this board want to admit it or not is that there are SOME things about the Conservative movement that the American people in generally do not like and there are also SOME things about the Liberal movement some people don’t like.

The problem was one of values. Kerry failed to talk about “values” in a sense that it was our MORAL duty to end war, disarm the world, protect children, save our environment, feed the hungry, and house the homeless.

The Democrats have not for some time been able to articulate the UGLINESS of the Conservative movement, its brand of Social Darwinism intact. There was no “moral vision” in the Kerry campaign. The Kerry campaign was, “I’ll do what Bush does, but do it better.” A moral vision doesn’t have to be bible-thumping either.

However, the UGLINESS of the Liberal movement as many see it, is the advancement of what many term a radical homosexual agenda. Gay people have recently up’d the ante’ on gay marriage. What does Indiana see? What does Virginia see? What does Colorado see? What does Ohio see? “Heather has two mommies.”

Gay Marriage WILL NEVER sell in the South or the MidWest and most likely everywhere except for enclaves of very Liberal people. People think it’s guns that kills Democrats in the South and MidWest, but they are dead wrong. The people in this area of the nation ARE skeptical about big industry running our nation, THEY ARE for a clean environment, THEY ARE not war-mongers (for the most part), but they ARE NOT FOR a radical social movement that they believe (right or wrong) is a mocking of their religious values.

Even though Bush had a negative approval rating, the war on terror was an abject failure, he was allowing the richest among us the spoils of the earth, it DID NOT matter because people thought he was “moral”, because he talked about morals in a narrow viewpoint of family and marriage. The Democrats won’t touch “morals” with a 10 foot pole and I argue that is why they are now a minority party.

Whether I agree with gay marriage or not isn’t the point. Frankly, what gay people do doesn’t affect me one bit and I don’t care one way or the other. But, there are 80 million PLUS people who believe a doctrine of homosexuality is being forced on them in that they believe marriage is a religious act between a man and a women. I’m not going to take up their argument, because I don’t fully understand it, but this is what they believe.

Make all the pro-gay arguments you want, but that’s the facts. This nation will not embrace homosexuality where the Democrats can safely use it as an agenda and I find it absolutely absurd we spent more time in this election talking about gay people than we did talking about the morality of war or the morality of greed or the morality of a raped environment.

The gay marriage issue wasn’t the be-all, end-all of this campaign, but it did motivate damn near half this nation to vote against the party of “Heather has Two Mommies”, because it showed 80 million people what party cared about “morals.” I heard interviews WITH DEMOCRATS on local radio this morning where they voted FOR BUSH, because he had a “moral vision”. The fact I think he is wrapping hatred, greed and exploitation under the banner of “morality” is just my opinion. MOST Americans think it’s a legitimate opinion, because the Democrats do NOTHING to alter the debate.

I do believe there are things we can tactfully advance on behalf of gay Americans. First, we can continue to promote hate crime legislation. I believe even if America rejects homosexual marriage in its context, we can still advance a paradigm that seeks the most empathy and compassion for gay people as possible. But, if we insist on battling this gay social agenda in a nation where it is held in contempt, this won’t be the last Democratic candidate that falls on the homosexual sword.

It looks like the gay agenda was nothing more than Ralph Nader movement all over again. It actually won the election for those most hostile to their own cause.

[lynintenn]

58. I agree with your post 100%

[MUSTANG_2004]

59. Nicely said. Wrong war, wrong time

I think the pro-gay marriage group chose the wrong time to fight this battle, because time is on their side. Rather than motivate the over-60 crowd who are worried about gay marriage, they could have waited for that generation to disappear.

A case in point is my family - My octogenerian father vehemently opposes it (although Iraq caused him to vote for Kerry anyway), while none of his children do.

[Stuckinthebush]

60. No just the South, my friend

Rural America is all over America. In many Southern cities, the vote went Democratic.

[alwynsw]

64. How elitist can you be?

Does your health insurance cover out-of-joint noses?

If you want to keep bashing rural America (I'm a rural American), think twice before you eat. Make sure that burger and the wheat for the bun was grown on an urban farm. Look at my avatar to see where I live.

Thanks for working to ensure that we lose in '06 and '08 because of divisiveness.

[Ripley]

67. That was my thought too when some people denigrate "rural."

They claim that they can't tolerate rural people because the rural people don't tolerate them as city people. :crazy:

This is a classic case of xenophobia. I've lived rural, big city, and small town. All rural people are not uneducated, snake-handling, bigotted fag-haters. And likewise they need to understand all city people are not immoral, drug-using homos who hate families. But to me it is up to the liberals (the ones who claim to be the party of tolerance) to make their case to the rural/red areas. If you don't even try to explain yourself, you really can't bitch about someone's misperception of you.

The few farmers I know down here are lesbians and organic farmers who voted for Kerry. But hey, let's call them assholes and maybe they'll just drop out of the voting process like the other 50%. :eyes:

[Bill McBlueState]

65. I agree 100%

Those ignorant bigots in the midwest and south who voted to "ban" gay marriage when it's already illegal there are the problem.

Why do those of us in the northeast have to put all our plans on hold for decades, just so a bunch of inbred half-wits don't have their racist, homophobic "values" assaulted?

If New England and the mid-Atlantic states could break off and join up with Eastern Canada, we'd be on par with the great European democracies, and the midwest and south could go about their third-world business.

And those remaining brave souls in the backwards segments of the country would have a great place to emigrate to.

[Bridget Burke]

68. More racist, divisive crap.

Please, let us all know from what paragon of Liberal perfection you hail! These types always hide their profile.

And--learn to spell "secede". It might be easier than cracking a history book. Or checking the map for this election.

[wadestock]

69. To say it's the South is not as accurate as....

saying it's uninformed Americans.

There is one inescapable conclusion that one has to come to in this election. THE COUNTRY HAS BEEN DUMBED DOWN AND IS NOW MORE UNINFORMED THAN EVER.

Key to this of course is Rush Limbaugh and a string of look alike, sound alikes that keep in people's faces to the extent that these people can't think straight.

This election wasn't about issues....it was about lacking information.

Rove and others that have helped devise this "winning formula" have to be laughing so hard it's not funny....because it's just so easy to manipulate obsessive working Americans that can't take the time to find out the truth.

Throw in the general vunerabilties created by 911 and lies about the war and these people were sitting ducks to be had.

[madrchsod]

71. read what i just posted

it`s been going on since the people decided to form villages in ...hmmm what is now iraq? it`s not just the south...