Some thoughts on the morning after.

[Skinner]

I cannot possibly put into words how disappointed, angry, and perplexed I am right now. The reported results coming out of Florida and Ohio simply make no sense to me. I cannot comprehend how we could have such a massive increase in turnout and not win the election. To paraphrase that little weasel Tucker Carlson: You don't wait in line for five hours to vote for more of the same. Who knows, maybe some people really would wait in line for more of the same. But my impression is that something just stinks here. As EarlG told me this morning: The result is either massively fraudulent or deeply disturbing.

Are we going to Ohio? As it became clear last night that this race was not over, I posted this Call To Arms. I talked to EarlG and Elad last night, and we all agreed that we have a moral responsibility to do whatever we can. If the Kerry campaign needs warm bodies to protest, stuff envelopes, make coffee, or generally raise hell, then we are going to go to Ohio and help do it. I hope lots of other Democrats join us. But before we go charging blindly into war, we need to figure out what the heck is going on. We are keeping our eyes on the TV and the Internet to find out what the Kerry campaign and folks in Ohio (and maybe Florida) have to say about the situation. If we think we can help in some way, then we're going to go.

What happened? I have no clue what happened. As I said above, I find the result to be extremely hard to believe. In my disappointment, I find myself drawn to a number of possible explanations, some of which raise legitimate questions that need to be answered, and others which may just be the result of wishful thinking. We've got an incredibly smart and motivated group of people here. We need to consider all of the possibilities. If any particular idea has potential, then we need to pursue it. I have already seen many very compelling theories put forth on this message board, and I'm sure we'll hear lots of other ideas coming from other bloggers. Hopefully some of them will pan out. But I would caution everyone to avoid jumping to any conclusions. As much as we don't want to believe it, it may turn out that--to put it bluntly--the other side got more votes.

We have already had some very interesting things posted on DU since last night. Of particular interest to me were the following:

This post and this post suggest that exit polls closely match reported results, except in those states that had electronic voting machines with no paper trail. This definitely deserves more scrutiny.

Also, there was this post asking why the massive increase in turnout isn't showing up in the final numbers. Or is it? This needs to be looked into.

With these in mind, I would be curious to see someone do a comparison of Florida and Ohio to all the other states, to see 1) if the increase in turnout in FL and OH is comparable to what we are seeing in other states, and 2) if the FL and OH are showing a similar change in results to other states when compared to the 2000 results.

Keep an eye on the DU Blog on our homepage, which will highlight the most compelling posts on this board. If you don't currently read the DU homepage, I suggest that you start doing so. It is a good way to stay informed about the latest developments posted here. (And don't forget to "Nominate" those topics that you think need more attention.)

It's not over yet. Don't lose hope. And don't turn against your friends. We have already had some pretty ugly threads posted here. People are angry and upset. And some people here already seem to be turning against each other. Please stop. During this time, we need DU to be a place where we can find comfort and support amongst friends. (Note to disruptors and flame-baiters: The moderators are as angry and disappointed as I am right now, and their tolerance for the usual crap is very low.)

John Kerry hasn't conceded this election yet, and neither should we. As long as he thinks there is hope, then we're going to stick with him.

Hang in there, everyone. We need each other more than ever.

ON EDIT: Actually... Just ignore everything I said. Kerry conceded.

David Allen
"Skinner"
DU Admin

PS: I know we've all got other stuff on our mind right now, but I need to point out that DU was the only liberal political blog that had super-fast response times last night. We had the most traffic we've ever had,. All night, we were averaging well above the level of traffic that we had during our highest debate-night spike. I know it's a small consolation under the circumstances. But I think it would be a shame if this monumental achievement went unnoticed.

[Tesibria]

1. DU -- I love you. You WERE noticed.

And last night, and this morning, you - DU - were a lifeline of sanity in the madhouse that is this country.

THANK YOU SKINNER. THANK YOU -- ALL OF YOU -- who create and maintain this site.

We need you now more than ever. So -- THANK YOU.

[theivoryqueen]

54. my thanks also.

in the years to come, I figure this may be one of the few like-minded sources for solace and for outrage. I am deeply saddened that Kerry conceded as I was praying that he not surrender until all options were exhausted. I think I need to leave work and go cry.

[Doohickie]

71. CONCESSION is not necessarily the end

It paints Kerry in a more positive light with the opposition, and will give him more freedom to pursue investigations into voter fraud (with less of a spotlight on his back), as well as better credibility when he finds something.

[SCRUBDASHRUB]

74. Here, here. DU kept me sane throughout the whole election process.

Thank you, Skinner for all you do.

[gjb]

94. DU - Canada is with you

You all may be surprised to here this but Canadians have a greater emotional stake in US elections than our own. I felt gut-shot last night as do all Canadians with a sense of conscience and fairness.

Quite simply you were robbed again by a skillful and determined enemy. Think about it. Why did Cheney go to Hawaii? Because winning is all that matters to this tribe. If the election was won by single vote giving Hawaii's two EVs to the Repugs they would still view it as a sign from Heaven. They mock the notion of legitimacy.

As for making peace with the Theocrats, forget it. They don't want it. They declared a culture war four years ago and they are determined to win. The more Democrats embrace Republican values the more they're hated for it. Clinton gave in to their whole platform and impeachment was his reward. That tells me that there is no 'center' anymore.

As for Bush's agenda, Bush has said he is going to vigorously pursue it. What does that mean?

It means that God's law trumps 200 years of constitutional amendments and legal precedent. Roe vs Wade is gone along with all minority rights and personal liberty guarantees.

It means that the UN will become a quaint anachronism, a relic of a past when America needed support from its allies.

It means American foreign policy will be pursued and enforced out of the barrel of a gun.

Bush has shown he has no interest in treaties, conciliation or negotiation. He's a "my way or the highway" guy all the way.

Needless to say we Canadians can look forward to four more years of being ignored and straight armed by this administration. More illegal trade barriers in spite of NAFTA. More carping about how we aren't pulling our weight against terrorism even though our soldiers were out in front of American troops in Tora Bora.

In short Bush has a hand full of gimme and a mouth full of much obliged.

I'm a newbie and I plan to follow DU in the future because your fight is our fight. We're in it together, it's not just an American issue.

We have our own emerging scourge of religious intolerance in the Conservative Party here. We just barely fought them off in the June election and we will probably go the polls again in June 2005.

So, Peace and keep the faith my brothers and sisters.

[rockydem]

2. well said

there are unanswered questions...

[ALago1]

3. You're correct, something just doesn't pass the "smell test"

I'm almost positive that there were some dirty tricks going on in Ohio (and possibly FL) last night. The trouble is we have to provide conclusive proof of this.

The media is not on our side. They won't entertain the notion of fraud for a millisecond.

Hopefully JK knows a lot that we don't know and is preparing for all out war. I will stand with him till the end.

[InformedSource]

17. Dirty tricks aplenty to overturn results -- Greg Palast

http://www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=389&row=1

[Catfight]

4. Just count all the votes, I accept whatever outcome but I want all the

votes to be counted so there is a legit election.

[freetobegay]

5. I am still in shock

I am waiting to hear from Kerry before I make any decisions.

[maddezmom]

6. thanks for the post

:kick:

[G_j]

7. thank you

this is just the pause for a little focus I needed.
Once we have more of a grip on the situation we can use our anger in a focused way.
I can never thank you folks enough for what you have done and are doing!!

[derbstyron]

8. you did a great job

and a big thanks :) from FL :(

[crispini]

9. Good, sane post. Thank you. n/t

[rndmprsn]

10. all eye's on kerry now

if he doesn't concede and wants to fight...I FOR ONE AM WITH HIM...and i will go to ohio with others to help and DO ANYTHING I CAN.

i just need to hear the words from kerry himself...fight!

[Pithy Cherub]

11. Time to Count,

time to reflect, time to actively pursue the truth - your post is a testament as to why time is the most important resource during this. What will we use our time to do - fight or lament? When I look back in time, I want to have been a warrior for truth on the side of right!
Most Americans want things settled before they should be - votes for war, patriot acts, to name but a few. This time we fight for the time to seek the truth, Kerry and not have us told this was so!

Thank you for a wonderful post.

[blue neen]

12. What you just wrote here is exactly why I came to DU this a.m.

I didn't turn on the TV. I didn't call anyone. I logged on to DU.

I knew I would find sanity, reason, and comfort here.

Thank you.

[TwilightZone]

Re: wait in line for five hours. I'm in a very, very red state (Nebraska)

and the turnout here was monumental.

Lines were hours long - people waited as long as six hours to vote. Bush won Nebraska 67-32.

So, to answer your question, apparently people were, in fact, willing to wait in line for more of the same. Thousands and thousands of very conservative Nebrakans did exactly that.

To my utter dismay, Kerry didn't win a single county in Nebraska, a repeat performance of Gore in 2000.

[bigtree]

13. I noticed

This place is a touchstone to the Democratic party. Thanks for your leadership.

[deutsey]

14. From www.nov3.us

This came by email after midnight last night. I haven't received another update as of 10:53 am ET.

* * * STAND BY! BE VIGILANT! * * *

Dear All,

It is now 12 Midnight Eastern time on the night of
Nov.2. At this point in time the election results are
still very much in doubt. Although it is clear that
there has been widespread voter intimidation, fraud or
suppression, it is not yet clear whether these have
affected the outcome of the election. We will be
sending another assessment at about 9 A.M. eastern
time on Nov. 3.

Here is a bit more detail as to our assessment of what
we know so far.

The main issues of voter suppression seem to have
occurred prior to election day itself. Most notable
were the attempt to illegally purge the voter rolls by
the Republican Secretary of State in Florida and the
Ohio Republican Secretary of State's attempt to
disqualify all voters registrations not written on
80-pound paper. There has also been a tremendous
amount of false information spread about voting and
registration, especially in communities of color.

There is still great controversy around the
35,000-plus voter registration challenges launched by
the Republicans in both Wisconsin and Ohio, states
where the candidates are presently running neck in
neck, and the 60,000-plus missing absentee ballots in
Florida. The processes surrounding provisional ballots
still remain unclear.

The Republicans largely, but not totally, stepped back
from their threats to launch massive voter challenges
at the polls on election day. There was certainly an
impressive voter turnout. Still there were thousands
of reported incidents affecting the vote, including
very long lines and shortages of ballots and
translators. Additionally, there have been reports of
first-time and student voter purging due to dubious ID
requirements, and a whole collection of reports about
electronic glitches.

A looming issue is vote spoilage caused by computer
error. Some say this disqualifies more than a million
votes and that many of these might be African American
and Latino voters. This was documented in Florida in
Election 2000, but no good numbers are out on this as
of yet.

We want to reiterate our main conclusions at this
time: There was widespread voter intimidation,
possibly fraud, and suppression. But we do not yet
know whether these acts have affected the outcome of
the election. If you have actions planned we suggest
you go forward, discuss what has happened and denounce
the voter suppression. We will be meeting again at 8AM
on Nov. 3 to reassess the situation.

Whatever the outcome of the election we have much work
to do. Stay strong and united, and let's go forward
together. For a full list of actions planned, see
www.nov3.us and www.unitedforpeace.org.

NO STOLEN ELECTIONS!
www.Nov3.US

[bigpathpaul]

29. This is good stuff here, folks. I think step-by-step level-headedness

will be more productive and keep us more sane than short-term junk food solutions. The actions that the K/E campaign take will greatly affect our options. It seems they're are tackling this sanely, but as the Republicans, and a cooperative media step up the rhetoric, it may become more difficult to maintain our composure.

If the numbers are real, and it seems relatively certain that we lost by 3-1/2 million votes, then we need to move on and figure out how to deal with the next four years.

If, on the other hand, there's reason to doubt the accuracy of the numbers (and I think there is), not only in FL and OH but nationwide, then I think an aggressive response is necessary. We're at a distinct disadvantage having the media firmly in Republican pockets.

Thanks.

[Midlodemocrat]

15. I can't go to Ohio

due to children, job, etc. but I can and will donate $$$. Let me know.

[DeepModem Mom]

16. Exactly the right thoughts -- and amazing performance last night --

thanks, Skinner, guys, mods!

[bigpathpaul]

18. Excellent, rational, summation. Thank you. n/t

[Clintmax]

19. Skinner..

I found your site relatively late and I must say, THANK YOU FOR EVERYTHING! I have not been as vocal as some on here, but I take heart that there are those I can turn to if I need the support of friends and those like me who are sick of Bush. I'm with you, Brother!

[Bandit]

20. Remember Cheney's comment of last week

"They may have the people but we have the votes" I wondered at the time he made that statement but I was trying to have faith. It was fixed there is no doubt in my mind. They were just too damn confident. they never once tried to woo undecided or moderates. One of their last rallies they had the gall to actually tell someone they didn't need their support. I know there is not a damn thing we can do about it. They have stacked the deck. I will go to my death believing they fixed the vote in Ohio and Florida.

[Cheswick2.0]

21. you know Kerry was never my favorite candidate, but I am with you

I have been working for ACT and we kicked ass here in PA. The two counties I was working in made all the difference as I knew we would.
If people are going to OHIO or Florida to fight I will do my best to join in. Let's do it.

PS... I am glad to see you in fighting mode.

[Jivenwail]

22. Thank you Skinner

For keeping us all sane on on track here. I personally could not have gotten through the last 4 years - and possibly the next 4 - without my friends here at DU. We ARE all in this together.

With that said, and hearing the discussions going on AAR this morning, it certainly appears as though there was some rather shady things going on in Ohio. And it appears as though the republicans are already sending in load of "operatives" to disrupt any attempt to count all the votes (shades of FL 2000). So if that's true, then we must counter. We must not allow this fraud and disgrace to our democracy to stand unchallenged.

I truly hope that the Kerry campaign and what is left of our Dem leadership will not take this laying down. How in the hell could any of us live with ourselves if we don't do something to ensure that all votes are counted and counted accurately. What do we say to our children? What do we say to the veterans? What do we say to the disenfranchised who need us now more than ever? And what do we say to the thousands who will continue to die for the lies of another bush administration?

So thanks, Skinner. I support anything that DU will do in this matter. And I thank you and all the mods for the great work here.

[progressivebydesign]

23. Perfect thoughts.. Fight on for us in OHIO!

I am NOT ready to give up, and I encourage ALL other DUers to keep the faith. PLEASE, if we learn ONE thing from 2000. George Bush is president NOT because he had more votes, NOT because of any complicated counting scheme, he is president because the Supreme Court ruled that George Bush BELIEVED he won the election, AND it was widely reported as such, SO he was given the election under the EQUAL PROTECTION laws, he was given the election because they ruled it would do him irrepaprable harm to give the election to Gore, because BUSH believed he was already president. As people post here today, and concede this election prematurely REMEMBER.. IMAGE is everything.. it's HOW Bush won last time. Seriously.

[riverwalker]

24. thank you

We are still numb and in shock, like victims of a bus wreck wandering along the highway.

[DemBones DemBones]

25. Skinner, if we don't fight this year, we can truly

kiss democracy goodbye.

Could you please make an executive decision to have one forum where people who want to talk about "why we lost" can post?

We need to keep those posts out of all other forums so that the realists among us can talk about how to fight this.

Thanks for everything.

[SeanQ]

26. Well said, and thanks for all the great work!

[kayell]

27. Thank you Skinner. NO concession, NO surrender. Let's find those votes!

[KittyWampus]

28. Skinner- Iowa, NM and Ohio Haven't Even Reported Yet

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

30. Thank God DU remained functional and thank you

As I said, I can't make it to Ohio, but I can make a contribution to get someone there on my behalf. If any Cali Du'ers (that I know) are planning on going, I can help with your expenses to get there.

[Fla Dem]

31. Thank for that rationale summation. Thank you for being here. n/t

[luaneryder]

32. Thank you, thank you all

for being there for us last night, for being here for us today and in the future when many of us will need DU more than ever.

[Politicub]

33. Thank you for the sanity check!

It's great to have this forum in which to vent. I would be lost without it.

[GoSolar]

34. Thank you Skinner.

DU continues to be the best.

[Phillycat]

35. I am so tired.

Tired physically, mentally, emotionally, ideologically.

What the hell is "moral values"? What is wrong with this country? They would actively vote against their economic and security best interests because they don't want gays to be able to get married? Really??? Who are these people?

If we don't find a way to get through to these rural voters whom we don't understand AT ALL, we are going to keep losing elections.

[meganmonkey]

36. Thank You Skinner - for your levelheadedness

Everything you say is on the mark.

And DU is an amazing thing! Thank you again.

So ya know, if it is decided that Ohio needs warm bodies, I can be there by 8pm Friday, after I get out of work. I'm about a 3 hr drive to Columbus and have already cancelled my weekend plans.

WE ARE NOT GIVING UP!!!

WE ARE NOT GIVING IN!!!

[Mandate My Ass]

37. My questions: Fox called OH before the polls had closed. WHY?

Those precincts no doubt are heavily dem and historically are the last to report. They needed to call it before he lost his lead.

Provisional ballots are not being counted. Why? Republicans sent thugs to OH, PA and FL to prevent voters from casting their vote and handed them a provisional ballot. It's now glaringly obvious they had, and have, no intention to count them. This was blatant disenfranchisement.

Then there's the absentee, and overseas ballots. Why is nobody talking about counting them? They must fear the military ballots as much as the others or else they'd

From HAVA's web site.

Within three (3) days after the election, the county board of elections will examine the provisional ballot to determine the validity of your completed provisional ballot.


At least three (3) days after the election, using the information provided to you on the Provisional Ballot Identification Receipt, call 1-877-VOTES-PA. Provide your Provisional Ballot Identification Number.


You will be told whether your Provisional Ballot was counted, partially counted or not counted. If your Provisional Ballot was not counted, you will be told why your Provisional Ballot was not counted.

[Skinner]

38. Actually... Just ignore everything I said.

Kerry conceded.

[saracat]

55. Thank You.

Democracy is dead but we tried.

[saracat]

64. Why can't I post anymore?

It says I have too few posts!Thats impossible. I can only reply?

[DARE to HOPE]

39. How could he--leaving us to the wolves.

I want to thank you, too, Skinner. David Alan is my own brother's name. Thank you for being there last night.

faith_hope_love

[wildeyed]

40. you guys did an amazing job last night.

Thank you.

My heart is breaking.

[gasperc]

41. Kerry conceded BUT WE DON'T HAVE TO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm sure the national vote numbers pressed him to concede, at least Gore had that to support him.

But none the less, we don't have to concede and we can demand about getting accurate counts in FL and OH

Let's get moveon.org, ACT and the other independent groups to work together to get the ball moving on action on these suspicious counts in FL and OH!!!!!!!!!!

[Katha]

42. Thank you so much Skinner

DU was the only thing getting me through last night and today.

[faithfull]

43. i

To everyone pushing the recounts, we are behind you all the way. Please don't give up.

[ozymandius]

44. Three hard knocks in Georgia.

I just got off the phone with an old friend who occupies a seat in the State House of Representatives. My friend won her race handily. They Dems lost their majority last night.

Democrats have consistently lost seats in both the Georgia House and Senate over the past three election cycles. In 2002, The Governor and Senate races went heavily Republican. The Senate captured a Republican majority then, retaining it last night.

Our Democratic Sec of State, Cathy Cox, engineered the introduction of Diebold into our electoral process. Despite fierce outcry as to their reliability in the field, auditability and the lack of paper redundancy these machines have been used in every election in which Democrats have lost seats and the stronger primary candidates.

Consistently, Democrats have lost ground since the introduction of Diebold machines in our state. While this sounds like a typical statement condemning BBV, there is leverage in Georgia to affect some change. Perhaps similar circumstances exist in other states.

There was a movement in the Senate this past session to equip our Diebold machines with printers that would provide a paper audit trail. It passed the Senate. The measure was killed by Democratic House leadership because it would have embarrassed our Sec of State. Odd that!

So with the House and Senate in Republican control, the measure could be re-introduced. Unfortunately, it would still embarrass our Democratic SoS since she has not gotten in front of this issue beyond issuing flat denials to the accusations.

The paradox is that any candidate, like Cathy Cox, could stand to benefit with the addition of two things: a paper trail and ammended auditing rules for recounts. (Georgia law currently states that the electronic vote is the only vote allowed in tabulation.)

Regardless of party affiliation, it would behoove us all to lobby our state representatives for additonal measures to ensure the veracity of our democratic process.

While in Georgia - this may severely damage the credibility of a really progressive SoS. That I would truly regret because she advocates progressive issues. The tradeoff is veracity in our elections.

[indigobusiness]

51. The low-road is the fast-lane to power

THAT's what we're seeing here. The system we have in place promotes the more sociopathic/egotistical/cuthroat among us. While the weight of that baggage will eventually bring it down, we live, and suffer, in the meantime.

[Ryano42]

45. No Matter the Outcome...

The FIGHT continues...

It would seem that that history repeats itself; the 2000 election all over (except MORE rigged) and I feels a bit like 1972 again.

Sadly, it will take a lot more blood and the draft bringing home the REALITY to the heartland before their fear-induced haze will clear.

Until some media entitiy INDEPENDENT shines the light on this Junta the heartland (homeland?) will be content to consume and wave it's plastic flags...oblivious to the shattering of the very democracy they stand on...

It will happen...sooner or later. I will be here to watch it...to FIGHT and MAKE IT HAPPEN.

I pledge allegance...

[RaleighNCDUer]

66. don't you get it? There are no independent media entities anymore.

Either they support * or they don't. If they don't, they are not independent, and can therefore be discounted as partisan against *. The only reliable media are those that support *. Because they say so.

[KoKo]

46. Skinner, I hope you guys can get some inside info on all this...it's just

too unbelievable that he would do this. Is there another scenario going on "behind the scenes?"

Nevermind...if there is, it's probably not a good idea for us to know.

It makes no sense that Kerry/Edwards would concede so fast. Not, when they have to know what it would do to us who worked for them. There has to be some explanation. If there isn't then we are in deeper doo doo than we thought in this country and in our Democratic Party...

[indigobusiness]

47. You said

Typecast Modulator (xxx posts) Wed Nov-03-04 10:28 AM
Original message
Now let's hope the Democratic Party just dissolves


It has proved itself to be a useless, weak, failed institution. It won't even fight to save itself. Even with the vast majority of the Left behind it - it was ineffective and pathetic. It will not get any more of my money, time, or effort. I will no longer defend it in discussion or debate. The Greens, the Libertarians, someone with actual principles are all that matters now.

The faster the Republicans take over the rest of the governing bodies in this nation, the faster it will be showing its true colors. It's obvious what this country wants, and it isn't the Democratic Party.

Let's throw our support behind something worthwhile next time.

----

I say: It's not the Democratic Party that is weak or lost. It is the Moron Majority of this brainwashed/braindead era of American history. Wake up the Zombies before they take us down, but don't shoot the messenger.

[InvisibleTouch]

48. The rethugs want to rule the mess so badly? Let's make a mess!

(Wanted to start this as a new thread, but suddenly I don't have enough posts to start one?? ... Okay, guess there's been a cut-off to keep the freepers out. My post fits just as well under this topic...)

And no, I'm not talking about riots in the streets.

This is long, so bear with me ... probably one of many "how I'm feeling today" posts, but if you can make your way through that section, I do have some calls to action afterward.

I knew we'd had another election stolen from us as soon as I turned on the TV last night after 7:30, and saw Kerry behind in the early returns, the damn "Defense of Marriage" amendment winning hugely in Ohio, and almost every Democrat in local races losing to the rethug. When the early indications have us behind, we lose. Every time. All the wishful thinking in the world won't change it. But anyone who said so here on DU, was called a freeper or disruptor. All the "relax, it's going fine, Ohio will come through" posts struck me as the hight of absurdity. We've had another one stolen, folks ... people didn't wait 2 hours and up in the freezing rain to vote for the Chimp! And the ballots have ... disappeared? Been destroyed? Discarded on every lame excuse they could possibly come up with??
And the reason they were able to pull this off again, is because they've maneuvered their people into every possible supporting position of power. Jeb Bush in Florida. SOS Blackwell in Ohio. All the way down to the ground level. It took them 20 years of stealth campaigning to do it, but they started to reap the payoff in 2000.

Now we have a choice. Last night and this morning, I've been sorely tempted to say "the hell with it all." Like almost everyone here, I gave my whole heart to this campaign. I gave money I didn't have, overcame a debilitating phobia to make phone calls, made web sites, sent e-mails, and tried to put out tons and tons of "good energy" into the universe to see our guy elected. (Goes to show you that stuff is all bunk....) I came to dearly love John Kerry and John Edwards, and I don't even want to think about how they must feel this morning, or I won't be able to fight on. We had the best team, the Dream Team ... we had support from every quarter. We had Michael Moore. We had George Soros. We had the Boss, for stars' sake! Everything that could have been done right, was done right. No criticism whatsoever for our team. And they still stole it. So, yeah, I was tempted to find a patch of wilderness somewhere, slam the door shut on the world, and stop giving a damn about anything from this point on. After all, the idiots who did vote for the Shrub, deserve exactly what they get. There are a lot of stupid people in the world, and I have no problem watching them sink into their own miasma while they eat each other alive.

Problem is, they'll take everyone else down with them - including our beautiful planet and our fellow species. And that's what gives me pause. That's what brings my hackles up again.

So, here's what we do. We hit 'em where it hurts - anti-consumerism. There are so many people on this site alone, but we're widely scatterd, so we gotta organize - but it can be done. If possible, try to move within proximity of each other, so we can help each other out directly. Lower your dependence on power companies and big business. Get off the grid. Neighbors can pitch in to buy solar panels, a bit at a time. (I know, the starting cost is prohibitive....) If you own a farm or a garden plot, share your produce. Or patronize farmer's markets rather than big grociery stores. Use the barter system. Are you a doctor, lawyer, electrician, plumber? Barter your services. Need something for your home? Ask on DU if someone's throwing it away. Join Freecycle.org in your community ... or better yet, can we start a Freecycle/Barter forum here on this site? More and more, we can pull back from supportig the big business that's the heart and soul of the republican money machine, and learn to support each other. Not only will we undercut them, we'll help ourselves to a better life at the same time. And the real beauty of such a system: even a republican can join and make use of it, and whether or not they agree with our ideology, the mere act of using this system, helps us and hurts them (while helping that individual person ... an appeal to their base self-interest ;) ).

Another thought: home schooling. I know, I know ... when you hear "home schooling," you automatically think "right-wing wacko anti-science fundamentalist." But believe me, if I had human children, I would never subject them to our school system. Let's raise the next generation to be discerning thinkers with an interest in the world, rather than zombies who allow television talking heads to tell them what to think. Rethugs can steal elections and influence people because PEOPLE ARE STUPID. And we know the rethugs have every vested interest in keeping them that way. Let's raise our own generation in contrast. Anyone here qualified to teach, and could offer their services to local DUers?

And, to put my time where my mouth is: this is what I can offer at this point in time (with more to come in the future). I'm a web designer, computer graphics artist, and an Ebay seller. I can help you get rid of your excess clutter. My educational background is in zoology, so I'm an animal person; I can watch your pets when you're on vacation. Dogs, cats, reptiles, fish, birds, arachnids, horses, exotics ... I've probably had experience with them all. I'm in central Ohio (blech), so these are mostly local offers, of course. What am I looking for in trade? Well ... I'm nervously keeping watch on a leaking furnace at the moment. And I have an endless ability to screw up my computer - which is running fine at the moment, but it's only a matter of time....

Everyone here has some skill or resource that they can barter to someone else.

At the same time, I'm not advocating a withdrawal from the rest of the world. I just want us not to be dependant on the rest of the world. From that position of power, where they can't turn the screws on us, we need to keep fighting. Right now, we need to be swinging into action to IMPEACH the scumbag pResident. Prove LIHOP - we know the info is out there. Prove election fraud. This nonsense about Dubya winning Florida in 2000 by 500-some votes, that we keep seeing? We know that's not true. He actually lost Florida once all the votes were counted. Why didn't we say so at every opportunity?
Keep pushing the memes. The other side wants to use fear tactics? Big bad Osama? Well, here's a fear tactic for our side, and it's a legitimate one: we're now under a very real threat of nuclear war. Insane fundamentalists have siezed the reins of power in our country, and there's not an iota of difference between them, and someone crazy enough to blow themselves up in a crowded mall. Actually no, scratch that. The difference is that our home-grown fanatics have the ability to destroy the whole planet.

Get our people into every local government position from the ground up, starting with the school boards. How many of us here are qualified to run for office, any office? Probably more than we think. The next local elections are, what, two years away now? We need to start grooming each other for them now.

Hammer the truth. Rethugs win in part because they're willing to say anything, do anything, make up the most heinous lies and smear tactics. For a moment sometime this morning, I thought that we need to start doing the same thing. John Kerry is a statesman, and statesmen don't go around saying "fuck yourself" - nor do they invent lies about their opponants. I'm not saying he should have. But then I see how we've played above board, and it hasn't been enough.... But, no. No selling our soul for the sake of power, or we become just like them. And then there's no one left to speak for those that need a voice. We have to keep hammering the truth, but we have to do it less politely. Don't say "spreading misinformation." Say "lying." Tell it like it is. Take an example from Howard Dean. We need to stop being so statesmanlike, and start getting down and dirty - while still never caving in on our own integrity.

[VTHoosierPatriot]

58. F@CK Everything

Go to the streets, lie, steal, cheat, do whatever you can. But no one will. Back into complacency we go, happy with our little house and little cars while the republic's carcass is rotting in front of our eyes. The Nazis didn't lose the war, they just moved (MK Ultra proved that).

[zaron]

60. I was thinking some of those same things...

Was saying to DH this morning that I don't want to do business with people/companies that support Rethugs or help them in any way.

Living in the heart of Blue America (thank you, thank you)on the MA, VT, NY border I know that I can continue in my daily life without much changing BUT, there are larger issues than just my personal comfort.

I was never very confident of this election although I poured in money, time and effort to make it happen. I just don't have that hope in this country right now. After I recently read that 42% of people in the US self identify themselves as "born again" christians I just about threw up, I mean, gave up. That's a lot of people who walk around believing that they're going to be sucked up to heaven any minute and have no problem with hastening the end of the world, add to those the others who support Rethugs for their economic policies and I don't see what we can really do effectively in this system.

For years, I have been worried about the rise of the religious right and their melding with the economic right to create a country that I fear I soon won't recognize.

We have no real, practical power. They control all 3 branches of government and will be taking further steps, more redistricting, appointing judges, changing congressional rules, shutting out all democratic voices in congress and making laws behind closed doors to solidify their power. I personally feel like a want a new american revolution. I have no representation right now and my taxes are going to support this government. When do I become guilty?

Since I believe, among other things, that we have engaged in an illegal war that has killed thousands of innocent people do I have an obligation to cease my support? And, how do I do it-how do enough of us do it that we let the world know we are not our government-that many millions of Americans do not support it.

This country has wrought a government in the sole control of some of the most vile and reprehensible people ever to ascend to power. WE are the people-what do we do?

[Soopercali]

49. You guys were awesome!

As compared to Blogger especially - I can't even get into Blogger this morning to post. It's so screwed up...

[yellerpup]

50. Thanks for the great job of keeping us together last night

You are great, DU is great, Kerry is great but he conceded. Breaks my heart. Next time.

[Cha]

52. It didn't go "unnoticed"!

I'm waking up to heartbreak..along with Millions of other People but what I can hold on to is DU.. and I really appreciated(beyond words)being able to communicate(at a high level of speed)on Board last night and early this morning!

:toast: to DU! I love you guys! :loveya:

[Was_Immer]

53. Thanks Democratic Party, its been nice knowing you

As with all evolution you too will evolve into a better stronger party. This was not our time, the country is Bushwacked.

We are the minority party!
Oh happy days my a@@

[Bernardo de La Paz]

56. Is there similar discrepancy tween reported votes and pre-election polls?

Is there a similar discrepancy between the reported votes and pre-election polls, on a state by state basis that shows up as anomolies for Ohio and Florida?

[demokatgurrl]

57. John Kerry is ABOUT to concede!!!! I am totally pissed.

He promised to fight for every vote. He promised to wait until every last vote was counted. I spent 13 hours at the polls yesterday trying to make sure his promise was kept.

I have been a Democrat since I first registered to vote, at age 18, in 1974. I am now abandoning party affiliation, because there is no party in this country for me. I am so deeply disappointed in the Democratic party, its elected officials and its leadership.

[smirkymonkey]

59. Thanks Skinner.

I am sick to my stomach, but I won't give up. We need DU now more than ever.

[mbee]

67. Thank you Skinner - let the bushistas have the country - they will

come crawling back when they have to move out of their trailers into tent cities (if they're lucky)! My two cents worth to everyone is hold on to your wallets and don't spend anything you don't have to. I just cancelled out on two people who were coming to give me estimates on some work. There is no way I will spend any money now!

[vickie]

61. Thank you for these words.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

62. For what it's worth.........

I just got off the phone with my best friend, who's more like a wonderful mother/grandmother to me. She's eighty-five years old, a great-grandmother, a wonderful painter, and the best person I've ever known. She's who I want to be when I grow up.

We talked about how the election was stolen again. I told her I had just sent $$$ to democraticunderground.com, because I think it's such an important venue.

She's not online. She has no idea what a computer does. She knows her watercolors and pastels, but she knows better what's right and what's wrong. She'll never log on here or voice her opinion, but she asked me to donate $$$ to DU, and so I shall.

She knows how important this is, and she's put her $$$ where her mouth is.

On this terrible day, I wanted you wonderful people to know this.

[chocolat]

63. Thank you, DU team

I feel so dead. I can't believe the nightmare happened again.

This is the only site that has kept my head above water for the last 18 or so hours.

You've done an amazing job Skinner, and all the admins & mods... pat yourselves on the back for keeping us sane despite the fact we're losing it! :)

[EnfantTerrible]

65. Thank you DU

You have all done an amazing job and I am truly grateful for all that you make possible and do... I love you guys.

[selmo7]

68. We Shall Overcome -

I feel absolutely devastated. I feel extreme emotional pain, so much pain that I feel I haven't even been able to allow myself to fully feel all of it. I suppose it's a natural resistance to full blown shock to the nervous system.

I feel as if I am living the darkest day in the history of my life as an American. What I fear is that darker days are to come. Are we not already in a Civil War? We are - even as arms have not been taken up for this one. It is a crazy feeling to be a citizen of the "most hated nation" on the globe. My outrage cannot be calculated.

In 2000, I felt that there was some reason as to why we voted * into office. "Leaders" emerge from the psyche of the people. I felt that things would get so bad, that there would be many sacrifices of lives and liberty, but that we would learn our lesson and NEVER go back. I thought the last four years would be that lesson. Apparently not. Let the day when we will NEVER go back come sooner than later for us.

We are many bright lights. We shall overcome.

[tej]

69. Thank you....

DU, your efforts & hard work are appreciated more than you can know.

My son returns to Iraq in the spring for more of the same old stuff. After this morning, we are in for more of the same old stuff too. :(

We need to re-unite as a nation, but plan for the next elections in 2 years & 4 years. Never give up!

On a personal note, Skinner & gang: "You are a oasis of reason for me, in insane times; Thanks!!!!!!"

[seraph]

70. Thanks DU. (nt)

[DinahMoeHum]

72. Thank G*d for your sanity, Skinner.

:kick:

[lefthandedskyhook]

73. ALERT! A way to fight...

I can't start threads for some reason... please somebody start a topic...

We must check for our names on the voter rolls. If you voted (particularly absentee) and your name is not on the voter roll, then your vote was thrown out. If we discover something big we might still have a chance.

[Festivito]

75. Wonderful website job, and I wish you quick clarity.

Thank you for the effort on keeping DU up. Simply inexpressible.

Both side blathered about terror, so, that being a wash, people decided based on a clear decision, morals, where there was not controversy.

We love you guys out here.

[classof56]

76. Skinner, you are amazing.

Thanks so much for being here during the past few months. You helped keep me focused and sane in the midst of all the madness. Thank you for hanging in there, and for continuing this, your mission that benefits us all.

I am sad that I will go back to having to use my old signature line:

Tired Old Cynic

[VOX]

77. Thanks, Skinner. Things are appallingly dark, but we must slog on...

What else can we do?

As yet, I can find no silver lining in all this. But I am a liberal Democrat, until the day I die.

And so, the struggle continues.

[tilsammans]

78. Thank you, Skinner, for being here for us

I've been on the verge of tears all day. My feelings are so mixed, all of which have been echoed in this thread.

Thank you for giving us Democratic Underground, where we can sort it all out. The fight will continue, stronger than ever.

And I pray that one day I will stop crying and feel hopeful again.

:grouphug:

:loveya:

[Baja Margie]

79. Thank you, Skinner

so well put, commandante. Whatever Mike(mr.jack) and I can do to help, let us know. Money, time, whatever.

This morning, I said to Mike, "Well, what IF these other votes come in & their for our guy?" He said," Then, what we have here is an illegitimate President."

My mom, 86, said, "they are so crooked they cannot even sleep straight in thier beds."

And my thoughts, well, I agree with Skinner. However, I'll go one step further, I think someone got to Kerry and asked him if he liked having his wife and kids alive.

Anything you need, anything.

Our home is open to all of you.

Love,

Margie in Baja

[urizenxvii]

80. in the words of Jeb Bartlett

what's next?

[MADem]

81. PRACTICAL and TACTICAL

I won't go into the standard "here's how I feel, and oh how disappointed I am" speil. I'll simply bet anyone the delight of their choosing that the election was stolen. BEV HARRIS was RIGHT. I'm sure that brings her small comfort today.

What do we do now? Here's what we do now.

Start working--NOW--with our local party leadership to TAKE BACK THE HOUSE TWO YEARS HENCE. AND THE SENATE. We need to pick ourselves up, dust ourselves off, and start NOW. EVERY GOP SEAT. EVERY DAMN ONE. We need to make them competitive, and we need to pick candidates that can WIN and who will VOTE TO IMPEACH.

This means we have to lose some of our ideological purity. We have to give an inch to get a mile--the vote we want is impeachment.

We also need to campaign for a paper trail for all ballots, we need to investigate voting fraud (and we KNOW it happened) and we need to call for LAWS to stop this crap from ever happening again.

We need to keep up the Freeway blogging. Now more than ever. We need to continue to demonstrate and protest the erosion of our civil liberties.

Man, it is like Nixon all over again. Registered Democrats' names are engraved in golden ink on the new Enemies List. I'm getting too fucking old for this shit, and I fear for the nation. No European vacations for the next four years--who wants to be spat upon?

Oh, and if you meet a college kid who did not vote, or who tossed their vote to Ralph, slap them. HARD. Suggest they start learning arabic or farsi now, because they will probably find it handy when they are shipped out.

We have to return to the trenches, and continue to fight. Otherwise, we may as well become selfish pigs, move to Canada, or roll over and die. I'm not ready to do that, yet. I hope I'm not fooling myself.

[kc.ink]

83. you are right but

what about all du'ers dumping their stocks as someone suggested a couple days ago???

[jdj]

95. thanks so much.

this is the post I have been waiting for all day.

just someone to tell me what to do next. I need action, a task, a chore, somewhere to direct my energy and emotion so I don't go nuts.

Thanks for devoting the time to posting this, some of us are so f*cked up (mentally) at the moment we don't know which way is up (me).

[jdbull]

82. when are Americans going to stop voting against their best interests?

i find the results really disturbing. just the fact that people who are being decimated by bush's policy but want to believe in the crap that is put out there by the republicans. WAKE UP!

[Mistahkleeen]

84. Pissed in Fla.

I CANNOT BELIEVE we replaced the great Bob Graham, with right-wing psycho Mel Martinez. UN FREAKIN BELIEVEABLE. Here's a guy who's negative ads about his opponent (Betty Caster)all but called her a member of Al Quada.
The conservative voters in this state are a joke. I wasn't this mad in 2000.

[llywrch]

85. Where now?

Now that Kerry has conceded, who will look into the suspicions that ballots in Florida, Ohio, & New Mexico have tampered with? After all, the purpose of an election is not determine who is the winner, but to convince the loser that he or she has truly lost.

Somehow, I can't believe that we have lost the election. Unless I accept we have returned to the United States of 50-70 years ago when political machines (groups of humans, not pre-Diebold devices) unashamedly manufactured election results, in which case the claim that the American Republic is the greatest society has become just another cynical slogan, & we have lost any moral power in the greater world.

Yet if I accept that these results actually reflect the will of the people, then I feel we again lose our claim to being a free & open society. In either case, I feel that a dream of a progressive, uplifting society or culture has passed, & we are thrust back into a life of clawing our existence from an uncaring environment like peasants one harvest away from famine.

Yet in that less enlightened time, there were progressive minds. I plan on reading, for example, Sinclair Lewis & H.L. Mencken on the that age & look to see how they managed. For I cannot allow the dictates of the small town businessman & the unenlightened church preacher to go unchallenged.

Geoff

[CAcyclist]

86. Thanks, Skinner, for being here.

This fight is not over; it is just beginning. There are lots of other ways to effect change besides just voting.

I am going to an antiwar rally tonight, what are you doing?

[bklyncowgirl]

87. Thank you Skinner

Thanks for giving us a place to come together.

[donheld]

88. Skinner - keep on

If it wasn't for people like you, willpitt etc i don't know how i'd have survived the last four years. How we'll fight on i don't know, but we must.

[Born_A_Truman]

90. I voted for hope

While I found this place very late in the election process, it has saved my sanity so many times I have lost count. Thank you.

I am Born A Truman. Yes, Truman was my maiden name and I'm proud of it and what it stands for (distant cousin I'm told). The fact that * used his name in his speeches made my skin crawl because he couldn't hold HT's toilet seat up for him, IMO.

I am extremely disappointed in this election for obvious reasons and because of what it says about our country. Can so many be naive? Did so many vote their fear and hate? I am still searching for answers.

The one upside to this to me (if there is one) is that * will finally have to clean up his own mess. The CIA's 911 report cannot be concealed for another 4 years. Truth about this and other things will surface and facts will be revealed.

I know this is small consolation.

I would just like to thank Skinner and everyone that has worked so hard here at DU.

[307 MMS]

89. Election

It's real simple. They proved they can steal any election in Florida in 2000. They'll just move it around now that Ohio has been victimized. We need to continue to stick together and hold these people accountable and go after Bush just like the 'Pukes went after Clinton. It's seems that's going to be the only way to play, is by their rules. We can beat them as long as we don't totally stoop to their level. Unfortunately, that might be what it takes. If I were Kerry, I'd start by suing for defamation of character. Since Bush went the suit route in 2000, maybe that'd be a start. Hell, I don't know. I'm just so disgusted, I'm rambling. We still have a voice and that's what counts!

[Mr Bojangles]

91. Continuing the sentiment

Thank you to all of DU for being DU. If I hadn't found this place (through Wil Wheaton's site, oddly enough), I honestly don't know if I would have gone out and voted.

We can't let this destroy us.

I understand that everyone is heartbroken, hell, I am, too. But this is not the end. Now that he's conceded, Kerry can work behind the scenes without being burned by the pro-bush media spotlight. While it may not result in an overturned election, it could bring to light just how shitty the EVote machines are.

[lsuguy]

92. Simple thing to check

Our guy conceded, but if questions remain, they need to be asked, and answered. And Skinner (and others) have raised good questions.

I'm sure someone is on top of some of these things, such as final vote count vs. number of voters. But we need to know.

Here's one simple check that can be done. In most states people have to sign in before voting, which gives us number of votes cast per precinct. We can compare the numbers in those sign in sheets against final votes. They won't match perfectly, but we can look for significant patterns of discrepency, particularly in OH and FL.

[texastoast]

93. Thanks for this place

I continue to learn from the bunch of savvy people here. I hope that Kerry's concession is part of a larger plan to fight the paperless voting machines and pursue shedding light on our malfunctioning process.

With the House and Senate now standing as they do, what chance of impeachment for outright lies, subversion, conflict of interest, etc.? I have no plans to give up. Take a break, maybe, but give up? Never!

[Kerry in 04]

96. Thank you skinner!!!!!!!!!!! And the other mods of DU.

And thanks for the fellow Duers that make this place enjoyable.