Dear Friends, I must write this with feeling of defeat..w/regret.

[PretzelWarrior]

I am sitting here absolutely stunned about what I am witnessing.

Yes, we can employ a "never say die" posture and hope we can pull out Ohio or enough of the other western state results. Yes, failing that we could look into the suspicious lack of correlation between Florida/Ohio exit polls and the "counted" votes including e-voting paperless machines with no audit trail.

We could do all of that, but fundamentally we are also left with this. Something in the psychology of the typical American person seems willing to accept what it is GW Bush offers. As offensive, anti-intellectual, and horrific as that may seem to us, it is the fact.

What has happened tonight is nothing short of a complete disaster for the idea of a transparent society with multiparty governing system.

We have lost ground in the House of Representatives.

We have lost ground in the Senate.

We have in every likelihood lost the Presidency. Flowing from that...

we have lost any kind of balance in a future supreme court. We will see at least 2 and possibly 4 justices appointed by GW Bush.

Face this. See it for what it is. We have lost a horrible battle along the lines of Dunkirk. My goodness, the last time a congressional leader was defeated (Daschle may well lose) is in the early 1950's.

What does that mean for me personally? I'm still sorting that out. I can tell you with no joking involved that I'm thinking of moving to China with my wife who is from there to take a break from what is increasingly a fascist jingoistic and backward country. I won't give up my citizenship and reserve the right to participate from abroad. THen again, something in my framework may make me cut loose all bonds to moderation and become an angry and lustily gung ho partisan warrior who will help join a new vitriolic and destructive Democratic Yin to the GOP's Yang.

Part of me wants to become even more of an internationalist and reach out to the world. I want to become an icon of human kindness who will reach out with an articulate message for tolerance, generosity, and a third way. Speaking of third way...part of me wants to join full force with others to get at the grass roots level to form third and fourth and fifth parties which can leverage platforms which will draw off some constituents from these calcified and horribly inadequate 2 parties of ours.

What will I ultimately do? I really can't say right now. When I consider the theft of 2000, the tragedy and life-changing of 9/11, the horribly bitter and unfair twisting of morals and ethics in the 2002 midterm elections, the unfair fights for redistricting in Texas, Colorado, and elsewhere....

when I consider all of these things and the Patriot Act and the deficit and all of the other DRAMATICALLY negative developments in this country, I really wonder if we are toward the end of a very grand and successful experiment in modern enlightnment and democracy in the United States.

Good NIght. And may God have mercy on you because George Bush and the increasingly strong GOP juggernaut will not.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

1. Look How Strong The Tories Were In England With Thatcher And Major

and Blair took the center left back to power..



You have an affinity for the Chinese....


Here's a Chinese proverb...

There's two ways to do in an adversary... You can dig a hole and wait for him to fall in or you can place him on top of a mountain and wait for him to fall off...

The Pukes are on top of the mountain now...

[PretzelWarrior]

3. I know what you are saying....I may feel much different in a day

or two days or whatever. But I just can't stand it. The pain of feeling like evil is prevailing over good..that fear and lies are trumping hope and work and truth...it's almost too much.

Understand, I've only participated in 2 presidential elections. This one and 2000. I feel so adrift and afraid for the legacy of this great country. Regardless of what the future holds which looks scary, I feel we have witnessed our country's hostile takeover already and been a part of events that destroy the very soul of people. Something similar to how the young people of the 60's felt when JFK, RFK, and Martin Luther King were all taken away and Johnson and Nixon presided over the worst war for the U.S. until this one.

Perhaps I'm too sensitive for the rough world of power fights even if they are done with a ballot that is rigged instead of a loaded gun.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

4. Having Bush Pick The Justices Suck....

but I truly believe there are more Americans who have a live and let live attitude than there are fundies and I believe the data backs me up.....

AWOL pays lip service to the fundies but never delivers...


If he actually delivers there will be enough live and let live folks driven into our ranks that we will have a governing majority again....

[chimp chump]

7. "AWOL pays lip service to the fundies but never delivers..."

Because the GOP would then have to find a new carrot to dangle before the donkey.

Unless they can build a strong majority opposing abortion for at least one election cycle, they'll never attempt it. And actually giving them what they want decreases the value of GOP judges, legislators and presidents.

The pro-life stance of the GOP and even of their pro-life affiliate organizations like Right-To-Life is just a carny sideshow, designed to fleece the rubes of their votes, not to actually give them the prize which is dangled before them.

Before anyone gets too pleased with Democrats and Planned Parenthood, their behavior isn't fundamentally better and have used abortion rights for easy fundraising off rubes in much the same way.

Both parties embrace abortion politics and fundraising as the harvest of a perennial crop. The actual policy isn't important to them, the money and the support they can build up from the issue is very important.

[Zuni]

13. They are going to fuck up big time and we will take em down

[NEOBuckeye]

2. I hear your words, friend.

I really have nothing to add to them right now.

Nothing at all.

[Cronus Protagonist]

5. Haha do you ejaculate early too?

Just wondering.

[PretzelWarrior]

6. update on my mood, cronus.

I just had to vent and put in front of my own face the possibility of facing that reality. Like I acknowledged in the post....we may very well fight this thing through and pull out a bunch of contested results and take it to the mattresses and get a win for Kerry.

But come on! It's a phyrric victory even if it does happen. Kerry will be a president with NO mandate. He will be a president facing very formidable and stiff opposition from the Congress.

Any way you split this night....it is not a happy development for Democracy.

I do feel encouraged by the fighting spirit of others on here. I do feel more angry than defeated at this point. I really do believe this has become a defining moment in my life. I will be turning in a new direction regardless of where all the chips fall.

I was discouraged because I wasn't on here talking with you guys and I was in front of the whoreish media and getting more and more frustrated watching Kerry's epitath being written.

[Cronus Protagonist]

9. A Kerry win willl NOT be phyrric - it will be a RELIEF

And it's going to happen.

[IdaBriggs]

8. Not over yet. Be patient. Have faith. :) nt

[PretzelWarrior]

10. I'm trying. I'm at least past being stunned....now just enraged

and willing to go to the barricades with bayonettes fixed to win this one. DO YOU UNDERSTAND ME, PEOPLE

[requiem99]

11. Daschle DID lose, hun. :(

Edit: Sorry if you are a guy, but you write like a girl. :hug:

[PretzelWarrior]

15. I'm a guy. but so the fuck what? guys can't be disappointed?

guys can't be sensitive? what is your problem? oh well.

my quarrel isn't with you. It's with Bush and the thieves and huns.

[Borgnine]

12. It's the Revenge of the Sith.

Just remember... it'll be followed by a Return of the Jedi.

[realcountrymusic]

14. Do not despair

The bigger they come, the harder they fucking fall.

RCM

[Maiden England]

16. I have several points

Firstly Thatcher and the Tories in the UK were incredibly strong by turning voters into Conservatives with their policies - people who owned stocks, and their own homes etc, so this matched with the policies of privatization and the sale of council homes etc. Brilliant move, it made people perceive themselves to be natural Tory supporters.
They did not have to resort to the outright theft via electronic voting like some western countries.
Secondly, I would like to remind some who feel their grip on power is unlimited, that history likes to prove otherwise. Over the centurys dictators have tried to hold on to power to no avail, the will of the people is ultimately too strong. This country is borne from a people who already fought once for freedom, and the world has seen the harm a rabid dictator can bring, and will not sit idly by while it happens again.
Remember what we have been taught since we were all little, in the battle of good over evil, good will always prevail.
Keep the faith people, we will be free. We will be free.