Need help with a Jewish, security mom undecided voter

[Francine Frensky]

she's leaning bush because of the whole security issue. Tonight at a halloween party, this otherwise intelligent person said that "Osama was saying we should vote for Kerry" I wanted to scream, but I tried to calmly reply, "No, he did not say that, if you read the transcript, he said no such thing"

I went through my best points about how bush was hurting us because the war in iraq is increasing hatred for us, how the world hates what we are doing, how much trouble we are in over there, but she thinks bush makes Israel safer and she doesn't care about what the world thinks.

Any hints? And anyone have a link to a pic of the "cross" on the podium at the repub convention??

[dennis4868]

1. How in the hell did Bush make Israel....

safer? Bush created another islamic fundamentalist state in Iraq that will hate Israel 100000 times more than Sadaam ever did...plus, Bush has created evem more terrorist groups that want to destroy Israel and the USA. You dont think those missing weapons could be used against Israelis one day.....Some jewish voters are crazy and are downright uninformed....FUCKING SAD!

[SCRUBDASHRUB]

2. Here ya' go, with Bloomberg no less...nu?

[MidwestTransplant]

3. Talk to her about Iran being Israel's biggest threat and Bush

did nothing about it. He was obsessed with Iraq and now the world won't work with us to deal with Iran. We are screwed without Kerry.

[vetwife]

5. Good idea and also tell her that Kerry is Jewish. He is you know

His Father was jewish !

[SCRUBDASHRUB]

10. His grandfather was Jewish, but converted to Catholicism. So far removed,

can't claim it (plus, the religion of the mother is what determines one's "Jewishness" as it were).

[AntiCoup2K4]

16. But considering Junior's grandfather KILLED Jews (or at least paid for it)

...Then Kerry is obviously far superior in that respect.

[SCRUBDASHRUB]

18. No doubt about that in any respect, AntiCoup.

[Carolab]

4. I think you should print this DU post out

Which clearly and concisely argues why Osama was telling people to vote for Bush.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1229621

[gmoney]

6. Bush completely walked away from the peace process

between Israel and Palestine. He's made things var more dangerous in Israel, not to mention inflaming tensions between Israel and the rest of the middle east... remind her of that.

Remind her that his whole fundie world view is predicated on PROMOTING war between Israel and the Arab World to bring on the freakin' rapture.

You could also point out that * has done virtually nothing to promote domestic security, he opposed the 9/11 commission and Dept of Homeland Security, and is underfunding first responders.

Forget about "protecting" us from bioterrorism... team * can't even manage the freakin' FLU vaccine shortage.

[elcondor]

7. GREAT link inside

Make sure she reads this: http://www.bushwatch.com/jews.htm

Israel is a big issue for Jews, and many of us fall for the line that Bush will keep Israel safer (or whatever). BUT the great majority of us are voting for Kerry, never fear! :-)

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sir_captain]

17. Ahem... bullshit

I'm going to bite my tongue so as not to break any DU rules, but this post is completely outrageous. "These stupid jews?" You really ought to watch how you talk...

Your "argument" has absolutely no merit or basis in reality, and if you're going to write things as incendiary as this, you better be fucking prepared to back up your shit. And yes sir, that's what your post is--shit.

Demonstrate that Jews are voting for Bush--come on--I dare ya.

[dennis4868]

21. All I said was....

I KNOW MANY JEWS who are now voting for Bush and voted for Gore in 2000....I was only talking about the jewsish people that I know that have no clue what is going on with Bush and Israel's safety...calm down. I am jewish and I was not stating that ALL jews are stupid...hell, I am one of them. I am only talking about the ones that I know that are voting for Bush....save the fight for the next few days and get the word out that Bush is a dangerous man and cannot be given 4 more years....dont fight with your own here at DU....I now hope you understand what I meant. Sorry for the confusion :-)

[sir_captain]

23. Fair enough

But seriously--go back and edit your post and make the wording different. If you look back at it, you might see why I was kind of shocked--it doesn't read too well, you know? In a different context, it could be taken extremely the wrong way...

And of course there will be some Jews who vote for Bush--but the idea that there is going to be a significant portion of Gore voters who switch camps, is, in my opinion, nonsense, though I suppose it cannot be truly proven either way until Tuesday.

[AntiCoup2K4]

22. well. OK since you asked....

Richard Perle, Paul Wolfowitz, Douglas Feith, Dov Zakheim, Ron Silver, Ed Koch, David Horowitz, Michael Weiner, Ben Stein....

Certainly NOT the majority of Jewish Americans, but most definitely Jews who will vote for the grandson of Hitler's banker.

[dennis4868]

24. also....this guy named.....

Wermser in the Pentagon...he set up shop in the Office of Special Plans.

[sir_captain]

25. Oh no! There are 9 Jews voting for Bush!

Don't be so literal... You know what I meant...

[alcuno]

8. As an aside, why would Jews vote for someone who thinks they will

burn in Hell? The Pope (Kerry IS a Catholic) has been vilified by the "Christian" right for declaring that Jews will go to Heaven. You'll never get a fundie like * to say such a thing because they don't believe it.

They don't support Israel; they want to keep the conflict going because keeping Israel from the river to the sea is part of their whole "Rapture" plan.

[vetwife]

11. Alos on the news tonight..Iran will not stop Nuke program ..Bush's doings

Wrong War..Wrong time.......Iraq !
Please Remind her Bush is like the above poster stated. I am a minister's daughter and that is a fact about what Bush claims to believe !

[SCRUBDASHRUB]

14. Makes no sense to me, but then there are idiots in every group.

I was talking to my mom today and she got so mad at the rabbi this weekend (she and my dad go to an Orthodox synagogue). They were in temple on Saturday, and the rabbi said that if he could vote (apparently, he isn't a citizen (he's Canadian)), he'd vote for Bush. There apparently are several members of the congregation who are Bushies. My mom shouted out from her seat, "Rabbi, I don't think you should be endorsing from the pulpit. I'm a Democrat and I don't appreciate your preaching politics." Something like that.

Some schmuck came up to her and said, "You're a Democrat? Get away from me!" My mom's mouth dropped open. If I'd have been there, I would have kicked that freeper's ass.

[CityHall]

12. Dershowitz article recently

Can't find url due to archive restriction, but it said they both support Israel, but Bush has hurt our ability to help Israel by offending arabs, and he's but the Christial Coalition radicals in power.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1187922

[IdaBriggs]

13. Please go to this site -- It should have everything you need.

www.invisibleida.com -- if its missing something, please let me know. :) Ida

[Darby]

15. See our site - www.securitymomsforkerry.com

Lots of good info and links there.

www.securitymomsforkerry.com

[Darby]

20. and tell her how BC04 had Maverick Media whip up a nice Hitler ad, link:

http://slate.msn.com/id/2103033/


Der Furor
Bush plays the Nazi card.
By William Saletan and Jacob Weisberg
Posted Monday, June 28, 2004, at 4:13 PM PT

From: William Saletan
To: Jacob Weisberg

Where to begin with this despicable video?

Six months ago, MoveOn.org held a contest to find the best amateur ad against President Bush. The group invited people to make ads and submit them to its Web site. Some idiot spliced images of Bush together with images of Adolf Hitler, evidently trying to make Bush look like a warmonger. His submissions, which arrived with 1,500 others—too many to be screened quickly—were posted on the contest Web site. As soon as MoveOn.org leaders realized what was in the ad, they removed and denounced it.

The Bush campaign, outraged by the mixture of Nazi images with images of an American politician, has decided that the best response to this offense is to repeat it.

The Bush video's opening white-on-black graphic says, "The Faces of John Kerry's Democratic Party. The Coalition of the Wild-eyed." Next comes a parade of angry speakers: Al Gore, Hitler, Howard Dean, Michael Moore, Dick Gephardt, Hitler, Gore, and Kerry.

Is Bush suggesting that Hitler fits in with this group?

[Darby]

27. Texas GOP platform states that U.S. is a "Christian nation"

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20040613-123020-8252r.htm

Christian platform ripped as offensive

By Ralph Z. Hallow
THE WASHINGTON TIMES

President Bush and the Republican Party in his home state of Texas are being criticized by Democrats on the touchy issue of whether America is a Christian nation.
    At its convention in Austin, the Texas Republican Party voted to reaffirm a plank in its platform that disputes "the myth of the separation of church and state." The plank celebrates the United States as "a Christian nation."

    An official of an organization affiliated with the Democratic National Committee castigated the action.
    "This is part and parcel of who the GOP and their conservative base are," said David Harris, spokesman for the National Jewish Democratic Committee. "While this is nothing new, it certainly raises to new excesses the lengths this Republican Party is going to in order to tear down the wall separating church and state.


http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2004/07/12/gops_christian_nation/GOP's `Christian nation'


By Cathy Young, Globe Columnist  |  July 12, 2004


AFTER A SHORT respite from the fight over the Pledge of Allegiance, the Republican Party has once again thrown itself into the fray over issues of church and state. This time it's the Republican Party of Texas, President Bush's home state, which has approved a plank in its platform affirming that "the United States of America is a Christian nation."

The plank, which also pooh-poohs "the myth of the separation of church and state," has elicited protests from Jewish groups. So far, however, it has not been rejected by the national Republican Party. This is in contrast to a similar flap in 1992: A statement by then-Mississippi Governor Kirk Fordice at a Republican governors' convention that "the United States is a Christian nation" was met with rebukes from leading Republicans, and Fordice eventually had to apologize.

True, the Texas Republican Party's plank also includes the "Judeo-Christian" formula that the national Republican leadership defended in 1992 ("our nation was founded on fundamental Judeo-Christian principles based on the Holy Bible"). But the affirmation of Christianity as the core of the American spirit rings far louder than the small nod to the Jewish heritage.

Some conservatives in the media have not merely refused to criticize the "Christian nation" plank but rallied to its defense. Interviewing Texas Republican Party chairwoman Tina Berkiser, the Fox News Channel's Bill O'Reilly described the plank as "largely symbolic" response to secularist activists and judges who would throw God out of the public square. On another Fox News show, "Hannity & Colmes," guest host Mike Gallagher suggested that objections to the plank stemmed from anti-Christian "bigotry."

[pabloseb]

19. The chimp has a bad security record

He didn't prevent 9/11.
He didn't catch the perpetrator of 9/11.
He neglected the real threats of North Korea and Iran.
He didn't protect the American borders (most of the cargo is not inspected).
He created a haven for terrorists in Iraq.
Even although all his attention is in Iraq, the situation there is a huge mess.
By alienating many of our allies, he dealt a blow to the capacity to garner international intelligence.

HOW ON EARTH CAN PEOPLE THINK THAT BUSH HAS A GOOD SECURITY RECORD???

[SCRUBDASHRUB]

26. What I don't get is how the pundits can say the tape of OBL on Friday

can possibly be good for *? I mean, it shows he's still out there! Assbackward logic, if you ask me.

[henslee]

28. Tell her that her concern for the security of the U.S. and Israel is

understandable. But genuine security is achieved through applied wisdom, not by relying solely a desperate "whack-a-mole" security strategy and crossing our fingers. First off, we cannot guard every border or foil every plot. Secondly, the constant dread and helplessness will eat us alive.

Hopes for true long term security lie in reframing the situation and rekindling relationships with our allies. We must regain the world's good will that we squandered after Afghanistan. Moderates on both sides of the table must step up and communicate. Extremists must be dislodged from the equation. This will never happen with Bush in charge. Ever thing is going fine according to him. Maybe he's talkng about the billions in nobid contracts awarded to favored corporations. What else could he and Cheney be talking about?

More than anything, Bush's rash, go it alone strategy has imperiled our security as well as that of all our allies, Israel included. The Middle East is mor unstable than it has been in years.

When we first invaded Iraq and American troops guarded the Oil Ministry but stood idly by while museums were looted of cultural treasures and and hospitals were destroyed. I knew then, it was going to be a long bloody haul for us and unfortunately my suspicions were confirmed. We had given our approval to robbing the Iraqi people of their heritage and their humanity, something Jews know all too well. Th Grahib prison abuses was a further illustration of how wrong things have gone. Those pictures will be with me forever.

Americans and their allies have seen harder times than these. And what has gotten them through such times has been determination, level headedness and their humanity. But if we bless Bush with our votes two days from now, we will be telling the world that he is one of us. That his morality is ours. I couldn't do that and sleep at night.