Rumors of Dean Iowa voting shenanigans behind his fall in IA polls?

[cryofan]

It looks as if the rumors that Dean volunteers might try to vote in Iowa (whether true or not) is getting some play with Iowa residents, and that may explain why the latest Zogby poll shows both Gep and Kerry right on dean's tail now, and Edwards moving within striking distance. THis is amazing, considering that Dean was dominant 2 weeks ago in Iowa.


Here are some quotes from an article about how Iowa residents are worrying about the rumored Dean voting shenanigans:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
DES MOINES, Iowa - Martha Mayrstigler, 82, was only partly joking when she warned Norma Van Ness, 67, and other Howard Dean loyalists not to pull any shenanigans at the Iowa precinct caucus the two women will share on Monday.

"You never can tell what might happen. You hear a lot of stuff," Mayrstigler, a supporter of North Carolina Sen. John Edwards, remarked Tuesday at a rally for Edwards.

The Iowa Democratic Party has been hearing stuff, too, namely rumors that Dean's out-of-state supporters might try to claim Iowa residency to stack caucuses for the former Vermont governor. The campaign staff of Rep. Richard Gephardt of Missouri is sounding the loudest warnings.

But party leaders insist that it is unlikely interlopers might defile Iowa's precious caucuses, in which upwards of 100,000 Democrats will gather at 1,993 schools, public buildings and homes in five days to open the presidential primary season.

.....................
more here:

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/News/Election+2004/5C75BE75CC6786EB86256E1B001FB188?OpenDocument&Headline=Proud+of+role+in+presidential+politics,+Iowans+frown+on+any+

[realdem]

1. More likely the Sharpton Attacks and the Smackdown of the Troll

But Dean still leads which means Tuesdays numbers nust have been good.

[Green4Dean]

2. spin spin spin...

other articles about the zogby numbers vorrectly pointed out that Dean increased his lead on Gephardt...

[maddezmom]

3. might want to check today's numbers from Zogby

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=115623

[cryofan]

5. Dean 24, Gep 21, Kerry 21, Edwards 15

how can you tell me DEan has not slipped?! He used to have a HUGE lead in IA!

[stickdog]

10. When? Please show us the numbers.

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[9119495]

19. You are proving the point as to how the media

convinced so many that there were shenanigans. How many Dean staffers actually unethically participated in the Iowa Caucuses? Answer: None--they haven't been held yet. But now it is reported as fact. I once heard a Republican campaign manager say their philosophy was "Make a charge, let the other guy spend a million clearing it up." Sorry to see Gephardt using this tactic. Given that so many people are led by the media to see rumor as truth, Dean should now LOSE Iowa. If he actually pulls it out next week, it should be seen as a miracle blessed by "the creator."

And as for the DINO shit: I could rant on about the candidates that voted for the IWR, NCLB, and failed to propose their own bills on core democratic issues, but it has been done to death. The point is, while you savage Dean, you should perhaps turn your lense equally to the other candidates and apply the same standard.

[cryofan]

22. I guess you did not read what I wrote

Did you miss the part where I wrote "Whether true or not"? Not to put too fine a point on it, but that means that I do not know whether the rumors are true, or whether they are false.

Frankly, I would not be surprised if there are dozens of fake Iowans who will vote next week, and they will probably vote for more than one candidate.

I thought it would be obvious that my post was not saying that the rumors are true, but that some Iowans are getting that idea, and it may be why Dean's Iowa poll numbers are dropping.

[9119495]

29. So we are just repeating rumors--yeah, that'll ensure good

relations between Democrats and fair campaigning.

You should avoid spreading rumors--it leads to much bad feeling and it pushes others to do the same.

[liberalmike27]

6. Gephardt

I think what we are seeing are last-minute, typical Karl Rovian types of tricks, spreading rumors just before the election, probably by one of the frontrunners, Kerry, or Gephardt, perhaps both. Pretty sad, and as a Green voter, I'll have a hard time voting for either of these guys should they get the nomination.

I also think that the two guys that went into Kerry's office, were also plants into the Dean group, pretending they were from Dean's campaign, just to make it look as though Dean was trying underhanded tricks. Then they go into Kerry's office, just to flesh out, what? How to run a losing campaign? That didn't make any sense either.

If Dean was an austrian-born candidate for the governor, the media would have immediately and constantly pointed that out. But since he's a guy they've been trying to kill off early, as the best candidate against Bush in 2004, trying to insert Republican Wesley Clark, or perhaps one of the bought and paid-for Washington insiders, Gephardt or Kerry, they won't mention the fact that these are probably both instigated by other campaigns to use dirty tricks against Dean.

[Lefta Dissenter]

7. Please stop

referring to Wesley Clark as a Republican. You know it is not true, and that reflects poorly on your candidate.

[liberalmike27]

9. Until

Wesley Clark voted for Nixon, Reagan, Bush, and the current Bush. He voted for Clinton, but as Mike Moore says, Clinton was the best Republican president we ever had. It is well-known that Clinton encouraged this Rhodes scholar to enter the race too.

Clearly, I fail to see how someone can vote for all of these republicans, particularly Reagan and the current Bush, and now virtually adopt all of Dean's policies and enter into the race.

The anointed one by the media initially was Lieberman, who was already bought and paid for, and apparently his only problem with Bush's foreign policy, as Jon Stewart says, was that Bush wasn't Jewish. The American public not-biting on that media-golden-child, they had to find another Republican, to run as the Democratic candidate, thus Clark.

I don't know how you Clark supporters can reconcile this in your heads, the man was a Republican virtually up until he entered the race. Then he adopts all of the positions, anti-war and all, of the front runner, Howard Dean. If you want the true-Democrat, who has been a Democrat all his life, who has the same positions as Wesley Clark, since he made them, vote for Howard Dean.

Please wake up to the reality of the situation.

Republican vs. Republican = Republican so if a republican is going to screw up this country, I want it to be the one with the (R) by his name, not an elephant in a donkey suit. I wouldn't mind Clark proving himself first, as VP, but to hand the reigns of power to another Republican like Clark, is foolhardy, and belies your interest in winning against Bush is so powerful that you are willing to vote for a Republican General to do it.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

14. How do you reconcile Dean's record - isn't that more important than

a trivial thing such as how someone voted? Dean's policies are ultra-Conservative, Clark's are not.

[Lefta Dissenter]

17. He did not vote for bush 2

He voted for Gore.

And as you well know, MANY Democrats voted for Reagan.

Clark has explained that when he was in the military, he voted for the candidate who he thought was strongest on defense issues. I find that understandable. He has never been a registered Republican, he was an Independent until he registered as a Democrat.

Feel free to criticize him (or me, for that matter), but don't lie about him. And regarding your assertion that I should vote for Howard Dean simply because he's been a Democrat all his life - well, hasn't Zell Miller been a Democrat all his life, too?

I vote for the man and what he stands for and what he can do for our country.

[liberalmike27]

28. Democrat My ....

You apparently vote for the man who "says" what he's going to do for the country. If you like Clarks positions, you should vote for Dean, as that is where he adopted them, from the Dean campaign.

Clearly it must be difficult to reconcile your position voting for such an unknown. Clark has several video's where he was lauding heaping praise on the Bush group. I don't know about you, but I don't care if it was pre-9/11, or post-9/11, I'd never vote for anyone who'd praise the Bush administration. But truly, this is just another sign of his Republican position.

I don't care if you don't vote for Dean, who was apparently good enough to get reelected in his state for five 2 year terms, but please, at least vote for someone who has a record as a Democrat. I am convinced Clark is the republican insertion, put out there to dupe people like yourself, when Lieberman (nearly Bush) wasn't catching fire.

[liberalnurse]

18. Honestly, I have no reason to believe he is

a Democrat either. He has never held office as a Democrat, not even dog-catcher. He just registered as a Democrat in September, 03.

I for one require my candidate to be a known Democrat. I have no evidence to the contrary with Mr. Clark.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

13. Cognitive Dissonance alert!

n/t

[jonnyblitz]

4. damn. last night on tv they were talking how Dean went up 2%

they were trying to determine why this if he was under seige. I forget what channel.

[stickdog]

8. Yes. Thank God for Gephardt's completely unfounded smears of

Dean volunteers!

Everybody knows the only trustworthy out-of-state canvassers are Teamsters!

[w4rma]

12. It is my understanding that the rumourmongering hasn't hurt Dean's polling

I think that Gephardt's tactics are despicable.

[liberalnurse]

15. Have you read Skinners post yet today?

I was not sure. As a peer-to-peer kindness I have provided the link.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=115692

[cryofan]

20. as a "kindness", huh?

Well, here is Skinner's message:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I am stunned by the behavior of some members last night. I'm not so much angry as sad. I think we have really hit a new low. Maybe even rock bottom. I think this behavior showed a special level of contempt for this message board, and for the other members of this message board.

There is no other way to describe it, other than to say it was deliberate, orchestrated disruption.

And if that wasn't bad enough, they chose to pull this stunt on an evening when we were obviously having serious problems with our servers (problems which are likely to continue today). Everyone on the board was already frustrated. The poor performance made it extremely difficult for the moderators to do their jobs. And the admins were occupied trying to fix the server problems. The appearance is that you were taking advantage of the situation. I am shaking my head in disbelief about the whole thing.

It is apparent to me that this small group of people gave themselves permission to be disruptive, because they have convinced themselves that their opponents are doing worse. That is just sad. I have certainly seen plenty of crap from all sides of the candidate debates, but I have never seen the type of deliberate disruption which I have seen from some of you in the past few days. In your efforts to compete with your opponents, you have blown way past them. It is just sad. What ever happened to trying to be better than our opponents?

I am sure that there are some of you who will take no responsiblity for your own actions. You have convinced yourselves that ultimately I am responsible, or that ultimately your opponents are responsible, for your actions. This is folly. Only *YOU* are resopnsible for your actions.

No doubt, some of you are going to stubbornly cling to your belief that you were totally justified. For you, there is no hope. But I believe that there are some among you, and among your friends, who are capable of regret, and capable of remorse. I believe that there are some of you who can feel a shred of shame, and will take this as an opportunity to try to do better. For that reason, the admins have chosen not to ban any of you, even though it is clear that we are more than justified in doing so. I hope that some of you will see it in your hearts to take the olive branch which we are handing you.

That's all I have to say.

Skinner
DU Admin
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


Now please tell me how MY post above relates to what Skinner's post.

[liberalnurse]

21. You will have to process this on your own.

[Larkspur]

16. Don't the Caucus holders check the Caucus participant's residence?

We check it in Connecticut before the voter is allowed to vote in the primaries. Why doesn't Iowa Caucus holders do the same?

[9119495]

23. They do

This is just another smear. The bull-shit assertions is that Dean's staffers will use hotel rooms as addresses and participate.

[indigo32]

24. There's only one problem with this

there is NO TRUTH TO THIS RUMOR which may or may not be affecting poll numbers. I've BEEN in IOWA canvassing... there is nothing strange going on.
By posting this aren't you only offering further "legs" to this BS rumor?

[cryofan]

25. "giving legs to this rumor"? Aw, that would be a shame...

.....((Wide evil grin)).....

Look, I really don't know if the rumors are true. How would I know?? I am in Houston....

But from what I can see of the Dean campaign and this primary in general, I would not be surprised if supporters and probably even some volunteers did vote improperly, and it will happen for more than one candidate.

Honestly, I am a Kucinich supporter, and since he is basically out of this race at this time, I am looking to support one of either Clark, Geppy, Kerry or Edwards. Not sure which one. But not Dean. The guy's past statements regarding social spending show him to be pretty anti-egalitarian when it comes to funding the social safety net with taxes from the upper income brackets.

So...let the rumors roll...if someone writes it down somewhere on the Net, it's fair game as far as I am concerned (unless it is a conservative slamming a Dem candidate, which this example clearly is not).

[indigo32]

26. Well at least we're being honest with eachother eh?

I'll say no more...

[chocolateeater]

27. If you don't know if something is true or not

you shouldn't repeat it. To do otherwise turns this board into a gossip factory.

[David__77]

30. Even if Gephardt wins Iowa...

I don't see another nominee besides Dean. Not with the present field of candidates. I know Dean will almost certainly win my home state, California.