Dean....Better Call Your lawyer

[windansea]

NewsweekJan. 19 issue - When pressed on why he refuses to release a large chunk of his records as Vermont governor, Howard Dean has a standard response: he's being sued over the issue by a Washington watchdog group, so he's leaving the entire matter up to the Vermont courts, where a judge can decide which documents can be released. "Why can't a judge look at every single piece of paper and make that decision?" Dean asserted during a debate in Iowa. But Dean's explanation has drawn a demurral of sorts from a surprising source: his own lawyer in the case. Vermont Attorney General William Sorrell, a longtime Dean ally, told NEWSWEEK, "I wouldn't quite agree" with Dean's analysis. In court papers, Sorrell—on behalf of Dean and the state—isn't asking for a Vermont judge to review all the records. He is asking the judge to toss out the lawsuit and declare all 146 boxes of sealed records barred from disclosure on the ground of "executive privilege."

more
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3927029/

[maddezmom]

1. did anyone really think we were going to see the records

his lawyers are going to keep this stuff in court, probably longer than they would be sealed. :( So much for answering the question honestly.

[DancingBear]

2. "Executive priviledge"

Now where I have heard that tricky phrase before?

This would almost be laughable if this guy wasn't running for President.

[meow mix]

3. ut oh, call mark greaguos!

however u spellit. hehe

but he's got a light case load lately, can fit dean in ez =)

[windansea]

69. marks kinda busy now n/t

[Dookus]

4. also in the report...

is the fact that if they lose in court, they'll appeal to the Vermont Supreme Court, adding at least a year to the process.

We won't see these files for at least another 18 months, if it all.

This won't persuade the true-believers, but I hope anybody on the fence who believes in open, transparent government may be persuaded that Dean may not be the best candidate to attack Bush/Cheney on their secret energy meetings.

[Maddy McCall]

17. Yes. So much for sunshine laws.

[blm]

5. Dean lied again. Anyone surprised?

We should do a poll for most dishonest candidate and see who wins.

[Eloriel]

56. The only lie is the innuendo smear against Dean

Dean has no personal attorney in this fight. The attorney general is representing the ex-Gov., who happens to be Dean, and the state of VT, which is his job to do whether he believes differently or believes the same.

These are rightwing tactics, boys and girls -- put something out there which is true enough, technically, but fail to explain it properly or completely (that is, engage in a big gob of intellectual dishonesty), and thus appeal to the basic ignorance of your audience in order to make it SOUND like there's some "there" there. There's not, but it works because a lot of people are ignorant.

But it's ugly, IMO, and it always disappoints me when I find "Dems" here at DU gleefully carrying their water for them.

Eloriel

[windansea]

68. chirp

Birds chirping. Birds singing
The blue and red bird flapping its wings.
Gracefully across the sky.
Feeling happy. Feeling good.
Happy birds together

[NewYorkerfromMass]

79. Dean and Sorrell are friends. Close political friends.

Sorry but that happens to be the case here.

[Democratista]

70. Jaysus

n/t

[Cuban_Liberal]

6. This si a distraction, rather than an issue.

What 'silver bullet' does everyone think is in those records? Sheesh, the calls for opening them would ring a lot less hollow if they came from people who had opened THEIR records too, don't you think? This is pure 'gotcha' politics.

[Maddy McCall]

7. Hiding one's history is a huge issue...

Don't you want to know what he's not willing to divulge, or are you happy with the image?

Welcome to DU, by the way. :hi:

[Cuban_Liberal]

10. Thanks for the welcome.

My main point remains the hypocrisy of the other campaigns calling upon Dr. Dean to disclose his records, while keeping their own private. As an undecided, thesew sorts of attacks are frankly turning me TOWARDS Dean, rather than away from him.

:hi:

[Maddy McCall]

16. Which candidate besides Dean has sealed his records?

[Cuban_Liberal]

19. I'm glad you asked.

Every candidate serving in Congress maintains files as part of the routine office practice, just as Dr. Dean did as Governor of Vermont. None of those materials are public, and therefore the calls by those currently in congress for Dr. Dean to unseal his records stink of hypocrisy. There are additional DoD records on Gen. Clark wghich are likewise sealed, and will remain so.

This is not a real-world issue, although it seems very important at DU.

[Cuban_Liberal]

27. Crickets chirping.

Thought so....

[Cuban_Liberal]

48. Crickets chirping

Mmmm hmmm...

[blm]

30. Any of them sell a utility to the Koch brothers?

The BFEE loyalist Koch brothers?

[Cuban_Liberal]

38. That doesn't address the issue at hand

Does it?

[DemBones DemBones]

74. Sealed records. . . secret meetings with energy corp execs. . .

remind you of anyone now in office?

Many of us have no need, and no respect, for a Dem who behaves like a Republican.

[Padraig18]

78. Many of you need..

.. to come to grips with the truth of what Cuban_Liberal points out, too--- that not one of the candidates serving in Congresss has done what you are all demanding that Gov. Dean do.

[Dookus]

32. Give us a second... DU is very slow today

Wesley Clark has released EVERY record of his career in his possession. The other records belong to the Pentagon, and Clark has no power to release them.

[Cuban_Liberal]

39. I agree.

That's why I singled out Congressional office holders. Clark has released what is in his power to release.

:hi:

[windansea]

61. correct

Clark is good!

[patricia92243]

8. When McGovern ran, he released his records, and the pubs used them to

destroy him. I have every confidence that Dean and/or Joe Trippi are not that stupid. Keep the records sealed, and let the pubs stew in thir own juice.

[w4rma]

9. That is correct. Dean is definitely not McGovern. (n/t)

[QC]

13. True. McGovern was a genuine liberal and a war hero besides. n/t

[bowens43]

75. What is this bizarre infatuation people seem to have

with war heroes? In my book, avoiding service in Vietnam war was heroic. Refusing to serve was even more heroic.

[Maddy McCall]

11. It's not just Republicans who want a look...Democrats should want...

to know who they are supporting, too.

[Dookus]

12. in that case

you can't ever complain when Republicans keep their records secret.

Personally, I believe in open government no matter which party is in charge. Unfortunately, some people would rather sell their principles to partisanship rather than the principle of good government.

[bowens43]

77. When are we going to see the DETAILS of Clark's military record?

Every thing that he has done and every controversial order he has issued? When will he give it up? He won't. But you can be sure that if by some horrible twist of fate Clark gets the nomination, Rumsfeld will be giving it up.

[DancingBear]

14. That is some inventive logic

I must say. :)

[bearfartinthewoods]

42. what records of McGovern's were used by the pubbies?

i have no memory of that?

[dsc]

15. MSNBC is a bunch of liars or incompetents

Mr. Sorell isn't Howard Dean's lawyer he is the state of Vermont's lawyer. What was my first clue? The fact he is called Vermont's Attorney General. That makes him Vermont's lawyer. Oh, and BTW he is Vermont's elected lawyer.

[DancingBear]

18. ready.... aim.....

shoot the messenger!!

[dsc]

21. Yes I will call lying liars lying liars

and will do so without apology. No matter how many clark supporters bitch, wine and moan.

[Dookus]

22. It's written by Michael Isikoff of Newsweek...

but keep shooting the messenger

[dsc]

25. This would be the Isikoff how hounded Clinton over blow jobs

to the point of writing a whole book, but hasn't written word one about any Bush scandal. Yea sure sounds like a solid source to me. BTW, you have yet to address this. Is the Vermont Attorney General Dean's personal lawyer, as Isikoff says he is, or isn't he?

[DancingBear]

24. That's fine

Nobody here is bitching, whining, or moaning as far I can tell.

It's actually quite humorous - it's getting to the point now that one can set one's watch predicated on the obligatory "liars!" response when the great Howard gets his feathers ruffled.

[dsc]

26. Is the Attorney General of Vermont Dean's Personal lawyer or not?

I have yet to get an answer for it short of personal attacks.

[Dookus]

29. No, he's not Dean's personal lawyer...

but the article doesn't assert that he is, either, so I don't quite understand your vehemence.

The article states that the Attorney-General of Vermont is Dean's lawyer "IN THIS CASE". Since this case is about his public actions as Governor, that's appropriate, and doesn't imply that the AG is Dean's PERSONAL lawyer.

Easy enough.

[dsc]

33. and he is flat out wrong

which is my point. He is not Dean's lawyer in this or any other case. His client is the State of Vermont, not Dean. And the fact that Isikoff is either too stupid to know that or too dishonest to tell the truth matters.

[Dookus]

35. oh I see...

gee, what an important distinction.


The fact is Dean's answer on this question is a lie. The lawyer representing his interests in this case says something very different from what Dean says.

Dean pretends like he WANTS the records unsealed, but he's just waiting for a judge to approve it. That is a lie. Not only are they trying hard NOT to reveal them, they'll appeal a decision if they lose.

I know you don't care about this issue. Some of us who believe in open government, DO care about this, deeply.

If you think it's OK for Dean to do it, you HAVE to think it's OK for Dick Cheney to do it.

[dsc]

46. It isn't his interest

in point of fact Dean has his own lawyer and his lawyer has taken the exact position Dean said. Isikoff is a liar or a fool I don't care witch.

[windansea]

62. lies

always come back to haunt you

[dsc]

63. Please point out my lies

and yes I want a list or a retraction. The AG of Vermont is elected, just as I said he is. The AG is not Dean's personal lawyer just like I said. Dean has a personal lawyer arguing exactly and precisely what Dean and I are saying he is arguing. So if you are going to say I am posting lies then back it up.

[AP]

64. Dont' get excited: just a question.

I thought Dean said he wasn't going to defend the suit. I.e., he wan't going to have a lawyer file a response. I.e., he wasn't going to represented. He was leaving it to the Atty Gen'l to defend the suit in the Atty Gen's capacity as the atty for the state, representing the office of Governor (and, so long as dean was acting in his official capacity as governor, he's entitled to have the atty gen defend the claim on his behalf a governor).

So now you say Dean is defending the action?

[windansea]

65. yep

i wonder what percentage of people can figure this out

everything is obvious to just about everyone

common sense rules!!

[AP]

66. I am 99.9% sure I heard Dean say he wasn't defending this action.

If my memory is accurate, and if dsc is telling the truth (that Dean is defending the action) then did Dean tell a fib?

[windansea]

67. oooops

he did it again...liars never prosper

[Egnever]

73. liars never prosper?

What world do you live in?

Liars rule the world.

Thats where the line nice guys finish last comes from.

[windansea]

81. only if we let them n/t

[maddezmom]

20. well maybe you can get the Dean campaign to sort it all out

Who is his attorney?

[lurk_no_more]

37. Wrong!!!!

William Sorrell was appointed by dean and is a close family friend for over 25 years. Can you say conflict of interest boys and girls? I just knew you could.

Dean's Corruption in the Green Mountain State
http://www.pressaction.com/pablog/archives/001035.html

William Sorrell met Howard Dean 25 years ago, when Sorrell's mother introduced the two during a neighborhood gathering. Grandma Sorrell was a Democratic Party loyalist, and an activist to boot. At the time, her son William was a rookie state attorney, and Howard a young doctor with political aspirations. They connected immediately. Both had hopes of climbing among Vermont's elite, where they could flaunt their power freely.

<snip>

It wasn’t long before Sorrell started benefiting from Dean’s unexpected job promotion. A year after stumbling into the governor's mansion, Dean made Sorrell Vermont's Secretary of Administration. Three years later Dean was back at it, selling his man again, this time for the Chief Justice position of Vermont's Supreme Court.

Unfortunately for Dean, his strategy backfired, and Sorrell's name was scratched from consideration due to his lack of judicial experience. But that didn't stop the governor from appointing Sorrell to be Vermont's Attorney General, which happened in 1997 when Dean bumped his buddy into the uncontested slot.

dean is hiding something that would destroy him as a candidate, he's corrupt as hell.


And then there were none!
” JAFO”

[dsc]

58. AG is elected in Vermont

it was a temp appointment and he won election in his own right. If it weren't he would be gone due to the change in gov. And yes, Virginia, that makes him the elected lawyer of Vermont..

[Cuban_Liberal]

23. Real-world Americans don't CARE, folks.

They just don't care. This is an issue nowhere but at DU.

[blm]

28. They will when Rove uses whatever info he gets from the Koch brothers

on the Entergy deal Dean did with them.

Then we may be stuck with a nominee who was entrapped in a deal that makes him look corrupt.

That's how they operate. In Conason's book, The Hunting of the President, he talks about how they pegged Clinton as someone who would run against Bush1 and tried to entrap him in 1989. He didn't bite.

Funny that Dean's Entergy deal was with the BFEE loyalist Koch brothers.

[maddezmom]

34. keep telling yourself that no one cares n/t

[Cuban_Liberal]

31. Voice from the REAL world here!

America doesn't give a damn about this 'issue', although it seems VERY important here at DU...

[BootinUp]

36. Oh what perfect timing!

*Gep and Kerry loading weaponry*

FIRE WHEN READY!

[DancingBear]

40. I hope the "pincushion" had a nice day off today

Because Gep, Kerry, Edwards et al are gonna sink their collective teeth into this one.

The Clarification Dept. of the Dean campaign will be at Mach 3 tomorrow.

[Dookus]

41. And don't forget Lieberman-

Some of the Dean supporters here were apoplectic that Lieberman didn't accept Dean's facile answer the first time he gave it.

Now we know that Lieberman was right not to accept it.

If Dean can release the records tomorrow with the stroke of a pen, he should do so.

Lieberman was right. Dean was wrong.

God, it pains me to even say that.

[Cuban_Liberal]

43. The hypocrisy is rank.

"Remove the log from thine own eye, before tasking thy brother for the mote in his".

[BootinUp]

44. Who launched the nastiest tv attack ads today? hmmmmm

Not a clue here. /sarcasm

:)

[maddezmom]

50. hmmm

wonder who would launch an attack ad? Can't be Dean, he alread called Terry to tell them all to stop with the attacks. :)

[deminflorida]

45. DEAN = CHENEY

eom

[bowens43]

76. Clark = empty uniform

[Constitution]

47. Guess he doesn't want to reveal his Enron connections

Can we trust him?

[windansea]

49. Dean should've stuck to story number one

when he admitted sealing records to prevent future political opponents from using them....

he just looks bad changing the story 3-4 times and especially lying about it on national TV

[Cuban_Liberal]

51. Guess what?

In the Real World (away from DU) no one gives a rip.

[maddezmom]

54. well someone does, they keep reporting it 24/7

must be rove.

[windansea]

55. Newsweek circulation is

quite larger than DU

[Clark4VotingRights]

72. He should at least get in synch with his attorney.

That's just sloppy.

[Clark4VotingRights]

52. Er, that's a pretty significant...misrepresentation on the part of Dean

Behind the scenes he's claiming "executive privilege"
to declare all 146 boxes of sealed records barred from disclosure.

In public he's making it look like he's just leaving it up to
the King Soloman judge to do whatever is right.

And he gets outed by his own laywer?
No wonder he seems to dislike laywers.

[xultar]

53. He is trying to hide the Woody Shooting

William Sorrell his 25 year friend whom he appointed to VT atty general bungled an investigation. Dean didnt authorize a special investigation into the police shooting of Woody while he lay on the ground.

So the atty gen is now your personal atty.

hummmmmm

[RetroLounge]

57. Yawn...

:boring:

[Joe the Revelator]

71. Yep, let sleeping dogs lie

If this was clark, or <gasp> bush you'd be all over this. So why not when its dean. Is your support that blind?

[windansea]

59. ooops I did it again

Brittany to Dean....

[adadem]

80. cute n/t

[Raya]

60. Dean has done everything to Stall Access to Records till After Primaries

Dean's line "leave it to a judge" has been false from the beginning and various reports have pointed that out.

It is so distressing to see all the Dean supporters being so enthusiastic when Dean himself is not worthy of trust and support.

[Moderator]

82. locked

inflamatory.