That "Kerry Goose Thing" and the Combats...really Freaked Me Out...!

[KoKo]

But...hey...you gotta do what you gotta do to get elected when you have an idiot for Pres and and the "Pupped Master" who runs him (Cheney) is always out with "Justice Scalia" (Whore Judge who "selected the Emperor) killing Ducks.. :shrug:

Lots of "costumes and posturing and pandering" sort of leave me cold...but "unlike the Chimp" Kerry is TRYING TO BE A MAN OF THE PEOPLE!

I gave him a break on this one...but UGH...! A Canada Goose? What Sport is there in killing one of those? They "mate for life." He killed a creature that believed in "Family Values." It's hard for me to deal with that...GEESE MATE FOR LIFE!

I grew up in the South and understand "hunting" (but in my time...folks hunted to put food on the table not for "sport or to win elections") but WTF! It's so important to get the "Chimp" out that lots of us are driven to "EXTREME MEASURES."

Maybe Kerry just loves to hunt...whatever...

When I help get him elected here in NC, though...My Next Effort is to have PETA visit him and ask him to hold a Presidential Conference on Why We in America no Longer Need to Hunt to be Macho.

I'm planning on working with "Animal Rights Advocates" to make sure Kerry get's a visit in the first weeks of his term...that time when POLICY is SO IMPORTANT!

[Atman]

1. It's a goose. And they shit volkwagons all over the lawn.

The world is at stake.

Kerry really does hunt; Bush does NOT really "farm" or "ranch." Posing in hunting get-up might help a few sportsmen realize he is not anti-gun, the way the debates made people realize he is not a long-winded waffler.

Besides, mating for life is way over rated.

[KoKo]

2. Trust, Betrayal and Life are important. (n/t)

[DuctapeFatwa]

3. I think deadgeesefortruth.com has hired counselors

[The Magistrate]

8. You Are A Cold Fellow, Sir....

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[Jacobin]

13. Snow Geese have become so numerous that they are injuring

the Arctic Tundra. Their natural predators are now fewer than they once were.

Canadian geese are not nearly as common. We may not be quite up to outlawing all blood sports as Britain seems close to doing. I would think that might doom any candidate running in this country at this moment in our history.

[yardwork]

98. I think it is possible you have the two species switched around

Canada Geese are prolific all up and down the eastern U.S. Their natural predators were eliminated by farmers and ranchers and people like Dick Cheney. They love the suburbs. They have become such pests in some people's minds that the poor things get rounded up and gassed at night all the time in NC. Shooting them one at a time is far more humane.

I'm not a hunter. You are welcome to sic PETA on Kerry but let's wait until after the election, ok? Think of the dead and mutilated babies in Iraq.

[Weembo]

130. Goose gumbo

And have you tasted one in a good roux???

[DuctapeFatwa]

15. LOL, I can afford to be. I don't have a dog - or a goose - in this fight

a fight lost long ago, I, like billions, merely sit and watch the phantoms dance themselves off the cliff...

[The Magistrate]

26. True Enough, My Friend

Though it would not hurt to cast a vote....

"Penny for the Guy?"

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[arewenotdemo]

10. lol...you people!

[maine_raptor]

4. Hold on there partner!!!!!

As far as people NOT needing to hunt to put food on the table, come on up to this part of the land. Talk with an unemployed woodworker with a wife and 4 kids. Why is he unemployed...because foreign lumber and paper is allowed to flow into this country, rather than support for these VERY traditional American industries.

And as for "When I help get him elected here in NC, though...My Next Effort is to have PETA visit him and ask him to hold a Presidential Conference on "Why We in America no Longer Need to Hunt to be Macho..), if you need to put food on the table, it's not Macho, its NECESSARY!!!!

[KoKo]

12. Yes...but did Kerry need to kill that goose to eat it...what did he do

with it after he killed it? As I said, in my post..I grew up in the South were folks ate "possums and snakes" to keep food on the table...and squirrel's too.

Folks ate cows brains and pig innards and intestines...but they don't need to do that anymore.

Certainly Cheney and Kerry don't need to eat the "whole of what they kill" or even a part of it?

I understand his "photo op" to be elected...but it's the "PRINCIPLE" of it...after he's elected that he needs "A VISIT!"

[DemocratSinceBirth]

18. If He Dusted Rin Tin Tin To Beat Bush That Would Be Fine With Me (nt)

nt

[Cats Against Frist]

96. LOL

Lassie, too. And the orca from "Free Willie." I'd sacrifice them all to get Bush out. And I think hunting actually rocks -- but I do believe in USING what you kill.

[maine_raptor]

20. Get out of the house and visit the hinder lands some time

"Folks ate cows brains and pig innards and intestines...but they don't need to do that anymore." No?

What is a hot dog made out of then?

At least with the deer, duck, bear, Moose, partidge and etc. that I eat I don't have to worry about where it came from and how it was prepared.

[KC21304]

21. I'm sure he gave it to a food pantry.

That's what they call a place that gathers food for the poor here in Wisconsin and other places I presume.

[dogtag]

24. Koko01, I have bad news for you -

"Folks ate cows brains and pig innards and intestines...but they don't need to do that anymore."

Folks still eat that stuff - they call it 'hot dogs.'

[KoKo]

27. Yes...but it's nicely packaged and "cool stuff." You don't know what it's

like to sit down before it and eat it in it's "original cooked form" with just a little salt and pepper when it's all you had to eat....

The smell alone would send most of us barfing from the room. But, to those starving kids in the South and Appalachia, it smelled awful good when you were starving and didn't know anything else.

[CAcyclist]

139. Smell?

Fresh game smells great, what are you talking about?

[MADem]

48. It looked like a good one

If I were him, I'd clean it and stick it in the freezer for Thanksgiving!

[maine_raptor]

14. And as a Mainer & hunter, let me tell you OUR definition of PETA

People
Eating
Tastey
Animals

[Forkboy]

63. gee,haven't heard that one before

:eyes:

[KittyWampus]

5. The Fucking LAST Thing Kerry Needs Is A Visit From Self-Righteous

assholes like PETA.

[NJmaverick]

6. Geese are flying crap machines

I wish he would hunt in New Jersey

[KoKo]

16. Seems to me we "humans" unload alot 'o Crap that we need sewage

treatment centers which costs us lots of tax dollars to support.

Have you ever had to dig a "latrine" or use an "outhouse?" Have you ever had to clean up after your ownself?

You think Geese Crap...oh man...if you had to clean out your toilet everyday...what do you think the weight difference between the "flying crap machines" and your own butt would be? :shrug:

[DemocratSinceBirth]

22. Most Folks Poop In A Crapper Not On People's Car

I hope you aren't the exception..

[Lorien]

129. Human pollutants (of all sorts) are causing dead zones

in the oceans-the very oceans that, through it's marine flora, contribute 65% of the world's oxygen. They are dying at a stunning rate, which in turn effects the ozone layer...how much longer can we survive our own "crap"? No one knows, but open season on the human race isn't a viable option there, either.

Compassion should never be condemned, IMO.

[athensliberal]

37. In support

thanks for taking a principled stand...I admire you for it and for taking the garbage that comes with it.

[KoKo]

43. Welcome to DU, "athensliberal"...one learns to develop a "thick skin"

after one is here awhile...but thanks for seeing what I was trying to say.

[Silverhair]

95. The goose would win.

A goose craps about once every four minutes while they are awake. Nowhere near as much as I do at once, but I only go once or twice a day. The goose goes about 200 times a day.

[CAcyclist]

140. What's the point of this?

[Jersey Devil]

36. Damned right! Then I could walk in the Oradell train station

without having to do the huckleberry two step to avoid the piles of poop and the nasty little bastards when they bring their chicks up to teach them how to poop on the sidewalks.

[PerfectSage]

75. Sometimes I wonder if...

...human beings are rats on two legs and if chimpanzees are embarassed to have 98% homo sapien DNA. :think:

[requiem99]

7. Animals eat other animals, its part of nature. Deal with it.

[ScreamingMeemie]

9. My husband does not hunt to be macho. Believe it or not, he hunts to feed

our family at a much cheaper cost than buying beef. :hi:

And I'll work against Animal Rights Advocates to see that my husband is still allowed to feed his family.

[KoKo]

59. I'M Southern, Mrs. Grumpy! I know what hunting is about..But Kerry didn't

need that Goose to feed his family....

And, I grew up in rural South...and knew folks who needed to feed their families...

I'm not against guns for families who need to put food on the table..

and...I think you know that. :D

[sandnsea]

90. Somebody got goose for dinner

What possible difference can it make who shot it or how it died???

[DemocratSinceBirth]

11. If He Had To Dust Flipper To Win That Would Be Fine With Me

As Lenin said "to make an omlette you have to break some eggs."

[KoKo]

19. If you read my post then you understand that I AGREE WITH YOU...BUT!

It's the PRINCIPLE...after the election, that I'm talking about.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

17. You're kidding right?

Kerry never claimed to be a vegetarian and if he is going to eat a goose what the hell does it matter who killed it? The goose is still dead and still ends up in his gut! Geez, Im a vegetarian and I couldn't give a flying fark how many geese he kills for food.

Further, I've supported Peta in their efforts to get Burger King and McDonalds to have more humane ways of killing. But you can't force your views on anyone else. This is the last thing Kerry needs to do. If he wastes his time with this bullshit there won't be ANY animals left after Bush bulldozes their environments down.

[KoKo]

25. When Cheny had his "Duck Slaughter" not so long ago...DU'ers were

trashing and dissing, and screaming and yelling.

The photo's of Cheney were the same as Kerry...in "combat fatigue" to hunt a GOOSE! Give me a f**ing BREAK, here!

You can't trash Cheney...and then say that Kerry really was "pandering."

If any of you really read my post, you understood that I UNDERSTOOD why Kerry needed to pander...and I was okay...if he needed to do it because Bush is DESTROYING AMERICA...

But, that doesn't mean I let Kerry off the hook just because he's a Democrat and did a "photo op."

I just want to hope for a time when this "pandering and photo-oping" aren't what ELECTIONS ARE ABOUT!

Hey...do you get it? :shrug: You can't diss one and then become so self righteous about the other...just because they are Repugs...and we are Democrats.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

29. My problem with Cheney was he went hunting with a SCOTUS judge

NOT that he went hunting.

[KoKo]

44. But..what I said was that I understood hunting...when one needs to do it

to live or feed your family. And, I understood why Kerry "had to do it" as a photo-op given that he's running against a "Hitler Type."

BUT...my point was, that after the election...I wan't to make sure he understands that he needs to be reminded that there are many of us walking and working for him who found it "pandering."

Just don't want him to get "too big for his britches" like the Chimp did...

[SemiCharmedQuark]

74. If he eats meat, what does it matter who kills it?

He's always been a hunter. It's not like he just decided to show he COULD hunt. Unless he became a vegetarian, for him to say hunting was wrong would be hypocritical.

[maine_raptor]

30. Never diss'd Cheney for duck hunting

All I ever said is that it would have been cheaper to bring a Golden Retriever along than Scalia......more effective too, Scalia can't hold nearly as many ducks in his mouth as a dog can.

[athensliberal]

41. earlier today

this was a topic of a thread earlier today and the same response was had. Some folks, including myself, just stated that it wasn't our cup of tea to see Kerry doing this. We were told to 'F%$K OFF' and stop whining. Nice, eh? it's a shame to see a group of people with a common goal attack each other so much. I kkwno we're all stressed out now, but for Christ's sake, at the end of the day, we're all on the same team.

[yardwork]

102. Kerry wasn't wearing combat fatigues. That's camoflauge.

Hunters wear them so that the geese can't see the hunter coming. Yes, it would be more sportsmanlike for Kerry to hunt in the nude, but then other people would fuss about that.

[Still_Loves_John]

23. Nothing drives me crazier than

people who "randomly" quote "words." It makes it hard "to" read, because "quotation marks" change the emphasis "placed" on words. I really don't understand why people do "it;" I get the feeling they "think" it's somehow intelligent, but they should know that it certainly is "not."

[DURHAM D]

28. Not that it matters but I think it is swans that mate for life.

[KoKo]

32. Here are some links for you:

Welcome to the DNR Division of Fish and Wildlife Web Site
... BREEDING Canada geese usually mate for life. When a pair is broken apart, a new mate is chosen. ... Canada geese usually mate for life. ...
www.in.gov/dnr/fishwild/ publications/lifeseries/cangse.htm - 22k - Cached - Similar pages

Canada Goose
... The chicks will fly when they are between 40 and 70 days old. Most Canada geese will mate for life. Canada geese migrate in large V-shaped formations. ...
www.nhptv.org/natureworks/canadiangoose.htm - 8k - Cached - Similar pages

ADW: Branta canadensis: Information
... Most geese mate for life. They form pairs during migration or on wintering grounds. Males fight over females with their wings and bills. ...
animaldiversity.ummz.umich.edu/ accounts/branta/b._canadensis$narrative.html - 43k - Cached - Similar pages

Shrub-Steppe Series: What About Canada Geese?
... Canada geese keep the same mate for life. In the Columbia Basin, Canada geese nest on islands in the Snake and Columbia rivers. ...
www.pnl.gov/pals/resource_cards/Canada_Geese.stm - 16k - Cached - Similar pages

Signs of the Times - Canada Geese at Tandem Friends School
... injured. • Mating season: February to March • Geese mate for life and will stay together during all seasons. • Geese will ...
www.loper.org/~george/trends/2004/Mar/971.html - 6k - Cached - Similar pages

Canada Goose
... The family bond begins at the nest. Canada Geese mate for life. In Kansas, they begin to build their nest as early as mid-March. ...
www.gpnc.org/canada.htm - 19k - Cached - Similar pages

Canada Goose | Animal Facts | Chaffee Zoological Gardens of Fresno
... ADAPTATION: Geese generally mate for life, and both parents take part in aggressively protecting the goslings. This protective behavior ...
www.chaffeezoo.org/animals/canadaGoose.html - 22k - Cached - Similar pages

[KoKo]

35. And...it's not just "Canada Geese" that mate for life...more links:

Geese
... Geese mate for life. They break away from the flock at the nesting grounds. They
build their nests with twigs, grasses, and other materials they can locate. ...
www.eecs.tufts.edu/~cabotsch/ bulloughs/vertebrates/birds/geese.html - 2k - Cached - Similar pages

Geese
... According to all of our information, geese mate for life and take a long
time to re-mate if one disappears. Guess what? I found ...
www.wildliferescueleague.org/report/geese.htm - 4k - Cached - Similar pages

Geese
... Geese normally mate for life. The nest, which is lined with down feathers,
is typically located on the ground near the water's edge. ...
www.dierinbeeld.nl/animal_files/birds/goose/ - 13k - Cached - Similar pages

[DURHAM D]

49. Chill honey.

[KoKo]

62. ROFL! "Honey." A kiss of death......eom.

[T Town Jake]

31. You said:

I'm planning on working with "Animal Rights Advocates" to make sure Kerry get's a visit in the first weeks of his term...that time when POLICY is SO IMPORTANT!

And I'll be laughing my ass off when President Kerry shows you and your self-righteous little band the door.

He killed a creature that believed in "Family Values." It's hard for me to deal with that...

YOU. HAVE. GOT. TO. BE. KIDDING. Either that, or (Deleted message - click here to review the message board rules). It's one or the other, seriously. This post strikes me more as a "set-up" post that is meant for eyes on certain other websites... :eyes:
They love batting such silliness around, after all, and this is a big fat softball. And PETA? For Christ's sake. Unbelievable.

[Jersey Devil]

33. Canada Geese all deserve death by poop suffocation

They eat an ounce of grass and poop out a pound. They foul the lawns, parks, playgrounds and everything they do near.

[sandnsea]

34. Do the geese grieve?

Is there any evidence the geese get unhappy when their mate is killed? Maybe the goose is quite happy to be set free from its life of eggs and goslings and eggs and goslings. Do you know?

[KoKo]

39. No I don't and neither do you...so what's the point of your post? eom.

[sandnsea]

85. If the geese don't care

Why should you? That was the point of my post and you didn't even know whether geese responded to the loss of their mate or not, yet went on and on about the poor geese mating for life. If you don't know whether they're even aware they're mate is gone, it's nothing more than an emotional plea based on nothing. Kind of like emotional pleas not to kill the "babies" for stem cell research when they're nothing more than cells that would fit on the head of a pin.

[Barney Rocks]

46. yes geese grieve,

and sometimes they even die of the grief. I have a friend with a phd in Animal Behavior from UC-Davis--I asked her and she knew quite a bit about it.

I don't like the hunting bit--but if it was necessary to shore up the hunter vote I guess I can live with it.

I don't like it though, and I don't like looking at the pictures of the dead goose hanging from some guys hand.

I am FOR gun control--so I really could care less about what the NRA thinks. But I do understand that Kerry has to go after the votes.

[KoKo]

51. Agree...and wonder who are "WE" to judge what animal or human can

grieve and whether the grief is important or not.

I don't like to see anything on this planet grieve because they are a "photo-Op." That includes Geese or Iraqi's or Vietnamese.

[Barney Rocks]

70. Thank you KoKo01,

I appreciate people who care more about living creatures than guns!

You know--anyone who has had pets knows that animals do have feelings. A while back I was very sick (did not know if I would make it) and I had a dog that stayed right by my side every minute. He was so focused on me that every time I moaned or shifted he was right there--to comfort me. I have personally seen animals grieve when someone in the family dies.

I don't have lots of personal experience with geese--but my friend has a lot of knowledge and I trust her.

I can't believe anyone would who has been around animals could deny that they can "feel".

Anyway--I am an animal lover--hence my name (poor Barney has such suffering in his eyes! can anyone deny that he suffers?).

[sandnsea]

87. Listen

Not all animals grieve. An animal behaviorist, I trust them to tell me which grieve and which don't. Fish do not grieve. If the goose doesn't even know it's mate is gone, then you're whole "family values" argument is stupid.

[Barney Rocks]

97. I am not sure

that I made a family values argument--that definitely was not my intention. I talked to a friend who has earned a doctorate in animal behavior--she now is an ecologist at the University of Michigan. She is world renowned and she knows all about fowl.

She says that they do indeed mate for life--and that when they lose a mate they seem lost, disoriented and show signs of depression. They will often refuse food and engage in other self-destructive types of behaviors.

I am not myself an expert in animal behavior--but it is well within the realm of my experience to acknowledge than animals may have feelings. I have had experiences where I felt sure animals feel pain and sorrow and of course if anyone has ever had an animal companion--you will know they are very capable of love.

[sandnsea]

115. Sorry

That went to you and it was meant to go to Koko. She's the one that went on the rant about the geese and family values when she didn't even know if the goose knew the other goose was gone. Some animals do, some don't. Making an argument when you don't know what you're talking about isn't very impressive, at least not to me.

But I agree, shooting geese if you know it could cause its mate harm is unnecessary.

[KoKo]

135. Family ties and "continuity of life" are important to me and to many

others. Perhaps I should have used "family ties" instead of "family values" since the Repugs have abused the phrase and made it so vague as to cover anything "they" decide is a family value.

It was my attempt at some kind of dark humor. It didn't come off the way I meant. Although most folks understood it or ignored it, except you. :shrug:

[sandnsea]

138. You didn't know if it was true

That's the point. You went off on an emotional tangent about the geese mating for life and you didn't know if a goose even noticed if his mate was gone. Some animals don't. You can't make arguments like that if they're not based in reality, funny or not. You have to know before you make them. If you'd known, you could have said in your post that some geese grieve and even die when their mate is lost. Then made your family values joke. Now that would have had an impact.

And by the way, my egg and gosling comment was in jest too.

[sandnsea]

83. Thank you

I was actually serious about the question because I didn't know. The eggs and goslings and eggs and goslings was just a joke. Do you know more about how animals respond to the loss of life mates?

[Barney Rocks]

100. yes--see my reply above.

I honestly do not want to criticize Kerry--I know he is only doing his best to win over the NRA vote.

So please don't take it the wrong way. I am going to keep my mouth shut and support Kerry--but I don't like this. I just don't think it was necessary and I do think it is cruel.

Edited to correct spelling errors--I am being really careless tonight!

[sandnsea]

116. I suggested horseback riding

I think it would have been much more effective, John & Teresa riding through the autumn leaves. And making sure it got all over the media that cowboy George is skeered of horsies. I tried to get someone to listen, nobody did. I don't think hunting trips from people like Kerry are effective at all. Even if he hunts every year and I just kind of doubt that he does.

[Barney Rocks]

121. I agree!

That would have been a very effective picture--it would not have offended anyone--and it would have drawn attention to the limitations of the Chimp.

Too bad you aren't advising them....

[MADem]

126. Yeah, they probably grieve as much as

...the widows and widowers of all of those who died in Iraq.

I'll take a President who can kill A GOOSE, which might well end up on the Kerry Thanksgiving table, and be happy to dump the Vice President who has underlings herd ducks into one area so he and his pals can shoot a hundred or more of them.

Hunting has its place. I don't like people who are piggy hunters, but there's nothing wrong with hunting, in and of itself. When you think about it, had not our ancestors hunted, we'd have been extinct a long time ago.

[Forkboy]

65. Good grief

[Silverhair]

101. Yes. They grieve over the loss of a mate.

I was raised on a farm and have watched geese. And I have seen some nature shows on TV that have shown a wild goose with a dead mate. I would call the actions as grieving.

[KoKo]

38. We Democrats need to be careful we don't lose our souls to hypocracy

like the Freepers.

Otherwise we fall into the Bushie catagory of "The Means Justify the Ends" philosophy...and in the end..when you sell your soul...who are you?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

50. If I Knew It Could Beat Bush I Would Rip The Goose's Head Off With My

Teeth...

[KoKo]

61. Your words have shocked me! I have to belive what you said was in jest.

or exasperation...

[Cats Against Frist]

103. Jest? I saw it as determination

and I'd be right there, ripping off goose heads with him, if it meant we could get rid of Bush.

How about a poem:

http://www.poets.org/poems/poems.cfm?prmID=2045

[DemocratSinceBirth]

106. Thank You...

For the record I have never killed anything in my life other than a bug but it's hard to take this topic seriously when the republic's on fire....

[Chiyo-chichi]

110. "and in the end..when you sell your soul...who are you?"

Dick Cheney.

[Yuugal]

40. grrrr

What annoys me about the hunting is that its a blatant pander to voters kerry has little chance of getting while at the same time turning off his base. Right now he should give up on the "undecideds" because if you dont know who to vote for at this point your probably not gonna vote anyway. I hope Kerry works his base more. I was annoyed the other day when they had him waving a shotgun around for 30 min like a madman, now here he is blowing birds up with a cannon. Ughhhh. I'm getting cranky now, let me repeat my mantra.....ABB,ABB,ABB,ABB there, now I feel better.

[high density]

42. Freaked out?

Sorry, but with people getting killed in Iraq, I could care less about a goose. We need regime change here and if having Kerry flaunt his hunting skills tips the scale in our favor, I'm all for it.

[KoKo]

47. When one does it for "sport" it starts with one Goose then it's an Iraqi,

or an Iranian, or a North Korean, a Vietnamese, an American protestor, a black, an hispanic or anyone who disagrees with you.

When one hunts for the "sport of it" and not to live...then a gun is a tool of death in the hands and judgement of the owner.

That's what I'm cautioning about.. We need to get beyond these "death symbols" in this time when folks like Kerry don't need to "hunt to live."

[DemocratSinceBirth]

53. That's A Rediculous Argument...

That like saying a man who beats his meat will beat his neighbor....


That's like saying a man who slaps his monkey will slap his wife...

[KoKo]

64. Well..you can always find a good goose to bite the head off of. eom.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

71. I'd Bite The Head Off Lassie To Get Rid Of Bush?

Wouldn't you?

[requiem99]

54. REPEAT AFTER ME: ANIMALS ARE NOT PEOPLE.

[high density]

57. You're not making much sense.

I don't personally know of any hunters who have progressed from killing animals to killing people, but then again these people would probably be in prison.

[johnnyrocket]

45. Sure, cow, chickens, fish, and turkeys will mate for life too...

if you let 'em. I think its ABSURD that this is another 'issue'. Just ridiculous. Of course its pandering or posturing, but its election time, and words and images mean things.

Let 'em hunt...I see absolutely nothing ill about it.

[jab105]

52. My husband is all about animal rights...and he doesn't want to vote for

Kerry because of this...because it is against everything he believes in the strongest...

I'm just in tears...

[requiem99]

55. Vote for Bush then, after all, killing people is better than killing geese

[KoKo]

67. Compassion is only reserved for Humans? eom.

[Big Blue Marble]

125. Hasn't Kerry killed people?

And do you think that the war in Iraq will end when we elect him? I heard him say in the second debate that we should have completed the assault on Fallujah this Spring. Yes he is sooo much better than *.
Yes, I will compromise my values and vote for him, because the alternatives are far worse. But my heart got a little heavier today.
And I know that means that Kerry lost votes today. That's sad too.




edited for spelling.

[MassLiberal]

58. sorry about your husband

I have vegan friends who are very upset about this too, but I think they'll still vote for Kerry. I was pretty horrified myself. It just seemed pretty gratuitous and photo opp-y. And hunting gives me the creeps.

[high density]

60. And how many PEOPLE has Bush killed with his war?

God, this is a scary thread.

[The Magistrate]

66. Surely, Ma'am, You Have Means To Alter His Behavior At Need....

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[KoKo]

68. If you read my post...I said I understood "this one time" with Kerry and

I'm working for him. But, on this post, I protested against the Kerry photo-Op...because it disturbed me as you say it did your husband.

If I'm working for Kerry (just put up five yard signs in folks yards today alone for him) then your husband has to understand that Bush will kill anyone in his way...who stands against him or questions him.

But, it doesn't mean that once Kerry is elected that those of us who worked for him, will give him a pass for "Photo-Ops" once he's in the White House if it comes to Cheney Like animal slaughter when he doesn't need to kill to eat.

I hope your husband can compromise this once, as I and others have had to do..and then will work to try to clean up this election mess we are in now where candidates must do "anything" to win. :shrug:

[SemiCharmedQuark]

76. Yes, let Bush stay in office and destroy all of those animals' habitats

because Kerry killed a goose.

[mcg]

84. Animals will be far better off with Kerry as President

I think it is important not to be an absolutist about this, but to be practical. Bush has the worst environmental record of any president. He is making our environmental crisis even worse; the fate of many SPECIES is at stake.

I'm a vegetarian myself and know that Kerry eats meat, as do most people, but let's face it, a vegetarian animal rights activist is not going to be elected president. The suffering of billions of animals in factory farms is far more likely to be lessened with Kerry as president than Bush, just look at the political contributions of agribusiness conglomerates, they are heavily GOP. The Bush administration is pushing to get the label 'organic' redefined. At least when people buy organic meat, the animals led a more decent life.

Shooting for the moon doesn't pay off well.

[mzmolly]

89. I understand how he feels. Is he a vegan? If not you can assure him that

the goose had a far better life then any cow he eats at McDonalds KWIM?

I was a vegitarian for a couple years, and am now eating meat again, I still feel like a heal at times, but it's about being consistant in our family. *sigh*

I didn't dig the Kerry shot a goose thing, but after speaking to a voter canvasing last weekend who said "my only reservation about Kerry is his stance on guns" I kind of understand the reasoning behind it. The Bushies are playing the "Kerry's gonna take your guns" card, and Kerry is trying to relate to people who fear it's true.

I think your husband will come around in the end. :hi:

[Lerkfish]

105. I'm sorry you feel that way...

Personally, I'm not a hunter, don't own a gun, would never own a gun, and I'm sorry you're in tears, but honestly, if this is all it takes to turn you from a kerry voter to a bush voter, you have the right to vote as you see fit.

However, in my personal opinion, Bush's dangerous leadership has caused the unnecessary deaths of THOUSANDS of people, and has endangered the stability of the entire global community, not to mention increased our vulnerability to terrorists. I can put this in perspective without a problem. One goose does not equal that.

[Lorien]

128. I'm upset about it too, but I just look at all the suffering that

Smirk's policies are causing ALL species (beyond the horrific war, just look at the list on the Sierra Club's website. BushCo is bringing us to environmental RUIN that will end in the demise of us all). I just suck it up and hope that we all evolve to the point that we no longer believe that compassion for other species means that there's none left over for human beings (a dumbass argument that always comes up on these threads. What tiny hearts and narrow minds there are out there)! It's not either/or, it's AND.

[MADem]

56. Kerry is a HUNTER

He has been a hunter since he was a kid.

He is comfortable around weapons.

He handles them responsibly, and he handles them very well.

He doesn't act like an asshole about it, he just likes it. Leave him alone. I know plenty of responsible hunters who live in "liberal" Massachusetts. A lot of them live off the venison they bag--helps out a lot in this tough economy.

If I were out in the middle of nowhere with John Kerry, and we were either under attack or hungry as hell, I couldn't ask for a better companion. The enemy would be vanquished, and the goose would be cooked. MMMMMMMM, mmmmmm, that's good eatin'!

[humanbeing]

81. repeat post, n/t

[humanbeing]

82. Ok...

Koko, good for you for sticking to your guns on a topic you seem to be passionate about. Let me tell you why no one seems to care...

I'll use myself as an example. I dont have much experience with guns. I shot rifles in the Boy Scouts, years ago. I don't own a gun. I don't hunt. But I'm not a vegetarian. I believe a majority of DUers are not vegetarian either.

So the issue is: while you abhor the death of a goose for Kerry's publicity, it's no different than the deaths of thousands of chickens, cows, pigs, every day. In other words, you're pulling one instance of 'death for the benefit of humans' (in this case, the human being Kerry specifically, and through his campaign, all of us) and decrying it over meat-eating in general, for no other reason, seemingly, that Kerry's action was more visible than millions of Americans eating a pork chop or steak or fried chicken in their homes tonight.

I don't see this hunting thing being any more terrible than what goes on in slaughterhouses day after day. Kerry is not a hypocrite. He's never said he wants to ban hunting, nor is he a vegetarian. He's done nothing wrong, and should neither have to apologize or meet with PETA just because of it.

I'm not attacking your beliefs. You obviously have every right to discuss this however you see fit on this board. I'm just pointing out that there seems to be a bit of an inconsistency between attacking Kerry for this and the reality that a majority of humanity kills animals for their benefit, and, because you seem a bit bewildered that there's no big outcry over this, just explaining my position.

[secular_warrior]

69. I'm a moderate on these type of issues

I don't have a problem with killing or hunting animals as long as it's done in a humane fashion which minimizes any suffering to the animal.

[blue neen]

72. As I read this thread, my husband is in the mountains of northern PA

on a hunting trip (small game). Yes, they will cook and eat what they bag.

My husband is a staunch Kerry supporter. He has also been a hunter all of his life. Like some other hunters in PA (and probably elsewhere), he is concerned about protecting the environment and the animals' natural habitats.

This is a BIG, BIG issue in states like this. There are still some undecided voters out there. I talked to some on the phone today.

I do understand your feelings on this. However, I am much more concerned about keeping my 21 year old son out of Iraq.

[Robeson]

78. Absolutely...

...This is a venison belt issue and thats why he just did it in Ohio. It may help to get him in the White House.

[Minimus]

73. I am an avid birder and member of several birding associations

including Cornell.

One of the bigger pictures you are missing is that hunting sometimes becomes necessary to thin flocks or herds of other species.

No it isn't a pretty sight to see a any dead animal, but it is worse to think of an animal suffering due to starvation, disease or something else caused by overpopulation.

I do not like to think of hunters killing beautiful defenseless animals, but I often have to remind myself why it is sometimes necessary.

[KoKo]

77. I understand what both of you say...if you read what I said..BUT it was a

"Photo-Op" and not a legitimate "culling" or a need to feel his family that sent Kerry out. And, the press portrayed it as a "stunt."

Because we all know that Politicians this close to Election Day will do anything..

I support Kerry and understand if folks who hunt are going to see this photo and decide to vote for him because he can "bag a goose" and use a gun (like..duh wasn't he a soldier in Vietnam who killed) then to get him elected over the "Killer-in-Thief" then that goose is a Martyr..and should have a bronzed statue that it GAVE IT'S LIFE to get Kerry elected because it one the approval of hunters in "Swing States."

But...it still doesn't negate that some of us saw it for what it was and have a right to remind him...that we saw it for what it was.

[Carni]

79. One dead goose pales in comparison to all the US soldiers and Iraqis...

who are dead (thanks to Bush and his bullshit in Iraq)

I am sorry I could give a flying f*** about the goose right about now. If hunter's garb and a dead goose helps Kerry get in office then I am all for it!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

80. We Could All Be Sent To Guantamo And You Are Worrying About A Goose...

you must live a charmed existence.....

[Forkboy]

88. Some people can multitask

[DemocratSinceBirth]

91. Multitask...

If your house is on fire you're not going to mow the lawn...

[mzmolly]

93. Goodun.

:hi:

[RafterMan]

113. Some people can multitask...

but does that mean they should?

The vast majority of people here have put their ideological differences with Kerry on hold in the interest of presenting a united front.

You would break that truce...for a goose? Do you want to fight over the IWR again?

It's only two weeks. The geese will last that long.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

119. I Was Thinking About That....

Bush can appoint a Supreme Court that can:

outlaw abortion


throw gays in prison


end affirmative action

and folks are worrying about geese...

[RetroLounge]

86. A Canada Goose?

What the fuck was it doing in the U.S.A.???

Kerry is just keeping the borders safe, after all.

p.s. Lighten up Francis.

RL

[mzmolly]

92. Heh.

:P

[NewYorkerfromMass]

94. Shooting stuff with guns is fun (to a lot of voters)

and Kerry is very good at it. More importantly, bird tastes good fresh after a kill, in fact there is nothing like it.
We don't need to do it- it's sport.
As morally challenged as this may seem, and as is pointed out here, 1100 dead Americans should put a dead goose in perspective.

As a bonus to some other posts here: Many birds mate for life, including crows and pigeons.

[mzmolly]

99. I sympathize with your post. But, I spoke to a swing voter in MN last

weekend who said his only reservation with Kerry was his stance on guns. I explained that Kerry was a hunter and was not professing taking anyones hunting rifle. My sisters bf is also a hunter who was concerned and had family members of the same "stripe" ... I think as much as I hate the political rationale, that poor goose may have given his little life to a worthy cause.

It is sad to think of birds getting killed because as you say they do mate for life. I'll never forget the poor duck who went looking for his "wife" a couple years ago in my neighborhood. I'll also not forget how distraught he was running through the yards calling out for her. Unfortunately, our dog got a hold of his spouse (so I knew he wouldn't see her again.) I'm sure he never knew what happened to her. :cry: Another sad thing is that they don't "re-mate" they stay alone for the rest of their lives.

*sigh*

[KoKo]

104. That is so sad...and I've seen some things like that and that's why I

don't understand folks who think animals have no feelings.

I agree with you...and I've been trying to say that on this post..but no one listens to me..that I understand why Kerry did it.

But, yes if that one goose get's Kerry the Presidency, it needs to be bronzed and placed on the White House Lawn as the "Goose Who Saved America from Bush!" :hug: for your terrible experience...

[mzmolly]

114. Right back atcha.

:hug: to you as well. Heck, I am sorry some have been so "rude" about you sharing your thoughts.

[chefgirl]

127. I understand your postion, Koko,

Yes, animals have feelings. I am an animal lover too and I realize that they 'feel' just like humans.
That said, however, being in the food business, I came to terms with that issue long ago. Like it or not, we humans use animals for food. Circle of life, and all that.
I guarantee you that if I were to meet a hungry bear in the woods or a hungry shark in the ocean, either one would eat me, even though some humans mate for life and even feel grief and pain.

Senator Kerry is, and from what I understand, has always been a hunter, and I really don't think he would have shot a goose just for a photo op if he weren't truly a hunter.

Additionally, being a responsible hunter, I would bet money that either he and his family ate that goose or it was given to someone who would. It wasn't a wasted killing of an animal just for a photo op, IMO.

I just don't think hunting animals for food is something worthy of villification. If the cavemen had never figured out the benefits of eating meat, they would likely have died off (or been eaten by larger animals higher in the food chain) and none of us would be here now.


-chef-

[gulfcoastliberal]

107. I bet this was Shrums idea

Cahill should have veto'd it. As she should've veto'd stuffing all of Kerry's achievements (BCCI, Iran/Contra, Vietnam K/MIAs) in the corner while the Rove accusations of Kerry having nothing to show for his 20 years in the senate went unchallenged.

[Silverhair]

108. I think the photo op will probably backfire.

Remember Dukakis in the tank in '88?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

109. Dukakis Looked Goofy.....

Kerry looked like a normal guy....

[Robeson]

111. Agree...

...He even looked rather natural with it, which I think would go well in those regions.

[Atman]

112. Jesus, who'da thunk THIS would be the hot post of the night!?

nt

[texas1928]

117. I have to do this I can not help myself

so flame away

He only shoots couples.

[Skip Intro]

118. Beautiful post

I was thinking as I watched the clip of him walking with the other dudes carrying the dead animals they killed - it really is a damn shame that killing something should be necessary. I understand it, but I don't like it.

[Big Blue Marble]

120. This really freaked me out, too.

I have seen that video at least ten times today. And I am grieving. Last night I was feeling so good about Kerry. Yes, I will still vote for him, but not with the same enthusiasm. Why does he have to kill living beings that woke up this morning like you and me to get the gun lovers? Ya, sure.

They know like we do that this was a ploy, a staged event. It was contrived. It was disgusting. And I do not think he will win any votes. The geese probably died in vain. It reminds me of when Bill Clinton went home to Arkansas to execute the retarded guy who wanted to save his dessert at his last meal.

Also, my fear is that many undecided women will be so turned off by this that he will lose their votes more than offsetting any gains from the gun owners.

How sad that so many of you here are ready to do anything to elect Kerry. What do we win, if we give up our values. I am not a Christian, but one of the best things Jesus said was what you do to the least of them you do unto me. I am committed to caring for all living things.

I think hunting is OK for those that need the food. It is far more honest to kill your own food than pick it up at the grocery store.
But however when we choose our food, when we take life to stay alive, we owe a debt to all life and to the earth. Be reverent.

[Lorien]

122. I'm probably one of the few who will agree with you

I despise "trophy hunters"; those men with tiny members that need to pump bullets into another living thing because of their psychosexual desire to feel manly and "potent". That said, hunting for your dinner is another thing entirely. I occasionally eat wild caught salmon (no neural cortex, so I'm less upset about eating them) and free range chicken. When I tell people I'm against trophy hunting and fur farms, they scream "hypocrite! You still eat fish and chicken!" Yes, I'm hypoglycemic, can't eat soy, and when I'm traveling, there's only so many nuts I can eat for protein before my gall bladder becomes a problem. I see a huge difference between killing for fun and one's ego, and killing to keep one's self alive. Most of us think a bomb that's detonated by terrorists is a horrible thing, but a bomb that's dropped on Germany during WWII is an acceptable thing. The results are the same, right? But the INTENT behind each action is very different.

The taking of a life, ANY life, should never be done lightly. I have family members who are Native American and grew up on a reservation. Hunts were sacred events, where the animal killed was given a ceremony and a prayer, thanking it for it's ultimate gift. My cousin has even performed this ceremony on the side of a highway when she accidentally killed a squirrel!She didn't care what anyone else thought. Reverence and respect for all life forms should not be shameful.

Someday, with luck and evolution, compassion may be fashionable again. Until then, I guess you and I will be among the last of the "bleeding hearts".

[KoKo]

134. Thanks for you three above who understood why I was upset but also

understood that while I'm working for Kerry, I thought I needed to say something about it. Eveyone here knows we must get Bush out, but we have to be careful we don't become "THEM" in doing it.

And, we need to feel we can express displeasure with Kerry while we support him, unlike the "lockstep" Bush adorers who feel he can do no wrong and that any photo op that shows him in a light favorable to them is good. :shrug:

[progressivebydesign]

123. Kerry hunts.. it's what he does. Not a hunting fan myself.. but..

I'm not a fan of hunting, though I suppose if you eat what you shoot, then it's no different (and probably more humane) than the prekilled food you eat now. I have no problem with it beyond my usual distaste for killing anything... I actually apologize to bugs I've accidentally killed, so WHAT kind of help am I in this??

[evilqueen]

124. good grief

I'd like to see you get more concerned about our nation's food supply and the spotty record of the USDA in testing cattle (and other animals used for food) for chronic wasting syndrome/mad cow disease. Do some googling (both regular websites AND the news) : prion, USDA testing for Mad Cow Disease, etc.

One USDA inspector, on condition of anonymity, revealed that he "inspected" an entire semi-truck trailer of beef in under ten seconds. It's a rubber stamp, it's not an inspection.

Right now, we're just damned lucky that we haven't had the same problem that happened in the UK... but, my friends, it is just a matter of time.

[KoKo]

133. I and others here are very concerned about all of that. Thanks for the

reminder, though. These are issues that those of us working for Kerry hope will get full attention. Bush has dismantled so much of our food safety laws and inspection, and probably even "humane treatment" in our "killing factories."

But, I stand by my post. I understand why he did it, but I don't like it any more than I felt when I saw the photo and read the article about Cheney's "Duck Slaughter" with Scalia. :-(

[sr_pacifica]

131. I had a visceral response too, but

I eat meat, so I can't conscientiously oppose killing animals for food (I hope the goose fed someone). I saw it as posturing too, but, it works. In someone's brain pan there was an image that sunk in of a "manly" man, and for some people that's what they definitely want in a president.

[Lorien]

132. You know what, Koko01?

all these posters who have attacked you for your sense of love and compassion for other living things; I haven't seen many of them posting in "activism and events" (tumble weeds are blowing through that forum), or on the many GOTV actions post in THIS forum. Three of us posted virtual GOTV efforts that any DUer could do FROM HOME to give the vote to Kerry, but most of the replies we received were of the smartass "aren't I ever so clever" variety. They can pretend that you care more about a goose than the people of Iraq and our soldiers (it's not an either/ or issue), but do they really have a leg to stand on? When I see 120+ replies to activism thread, I'll start to believe that the cause truly does come before funtime on the net (funtime=flaming Koko01 for being a caring and sensitive member of the human race).

[PATRICK]

136. We have a plague of Canada geese

Because of the long warm seasons they stop migrating but keep propagating. Some type of dying is going to happen to balance out the unnatural bulge in their presence.

After losing two cars(thankfully no injuries), not counting my son's being hit twice, to Bambi's kin, hunters can become a type of folk hero since their aren't really enough licensed hunters to thin the herd nowadays.

The fact is that Kerry hunts. Bush shoots skeet and Cheney has those mysterious manly interludes with co-conspirators in the woods. For all the jeering and moaning the message is clear enough to the average voter.
So you'd prefer a long winded diatribe by Kerry talking of his hunting exploits? This is the only way to honestly counter the propaganda by the insanely politicized NRA leadership. Go hunting as he always has even though in a fairer campaign he wouldn't have to to make his point.

[donco6]

137. OK, so he should have shot TWO geese. eom

[Crunchy Frog]

141. I don't personally like hunting,

in fact, I work in wildlife rehab, and have taken care of geese that were shot, but not killed. I'm not prepared to make an issue of it however. If the photo op got Kerry a few extra votes, then those geese didn't die in vain, and I'm OK with it.