An Encouraging Discussion with My Mom

[BayouWoman]

I'm the only Democrat in a predominantly Republican family and area. There is no hope I'll convert my dad, my sister and my brother in law because they vote one issue: abortion.

My mom, on the other hand, has always presented hope. She became a registered Republican with Reagan just as many Southerners did. She hates Clinton because of the sex stuff. It's a touchy subject. She's almost Purtianical. And she labels all Dems with Clinton.

But I've always thought that with the state of the country I might be able to talk her into voting for Kerry. She's old-fashioned about many things, but she has a lot of sense and is smart anough to make up her own mind.

I haven't had a chance to talk to her before because my dad was always around and I didn't want it to turn into a screaming match, but I had planned to see her alone and talk to her before the election.

Well, she called me tonight to check in. We visited for a while--I told her I was sent refund info from my insurance comapny abt Vioxx and she was happy for me, we exhanged news, etc.

Anyway, I was thinking about ending the conversation, when she brought up the upcoming election. And I don't know what made me do it, but I asked her, "Are you going to vote for Bush?" and she said, "Well yes. I'm a Republican."

And then I went for it. I told her that just because she's a Rep doesn't mean she has to vote for a Rep. She was quiet. I told her, "Mom you have to look at everything that's going on. Look at the economy." When I said that she said, "Yeah he just gave tax cuts to the rich." I didn't gloat. I just agreed and then told her that more importatnly he took a surplus and made it into a deficit. I then told her that he was just passing it on to her children and grandchildren. I reminded her about how she's always taught us about fiancial responsibility and how she always helped us and wanted the best for us. Did she wnat to vote for someone who will saddle us with a tax burden? She was quiet. I went on and told her abt the plans for Iran and a draft if he wins. And what about her grandchildren. What if they were to lose their scholarships and then get drafted. I told her about Rep newspapers that are endorsing Kerry. About Eisenhower's son backing Kerry because Bush is not living up to Rep values. I then said, "I know how you feel about CLinton--" She almost growled. "I HATE clinton." I said, "I know, but Kerry isn't Clinton. You can't not vote for a Democrat becaue of that. You can't keep letting Bush ruin things because you hate CLinton." She was quiet. Then I said, "Would you at least think about it?" And she said yes!!! She also said that if I brought her some things to read, she'd read them!!!

I can't tell you how releived and thrilled I am. I hadn't plannned on talking to her over the phone. I thought it might be a mistake--that I should be there in person to broach the subject. But I think the phone was the best thing. Besides not having my dad around, there was distance between us. I couldn't get too excited and upset her. Also, this way she has time to think about some of the things I said.

I haven't closed the deal yet, but I'm very hopeful!

I just had to share!

[naufragus]

1. Kerry isnt Clinton!

that always gets them.

[NMDemDist2]

2. excellent n/t

[dorktv]

3. You could always point out that not everyone in the

Republican party is like Bush and that follows that not everyone in the Democratic party is like Clinton. But woohoo!

[BayouWoman]

10. Thanks for the suggestion!

Don't worry, I'm going to make sure I have all of my facts and articles and printouts ready when I talk with her in person!

[dorktv]

18. Good luck

[caledesi]

4. Good job BW! Very encouraging. nt

[wildeyed]

5. Good luck with it.

I have been trying with my repub in-laws, too. They are old timey Eisenhower type repugs. But they are deeply set in their ways. I don't know if they are capable of voting for a Democrat, even though the dems more closely mirror their core values at this point in time.

I have been going after the anti-abortion people,too. Here are some interesting statistics, if you want to have a go at it, too. http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/11/opinion/11roche.html?ex=1098873335&ei=1&en=9c92d944e9a825af

The abortion rate actually fell during Clinton, so maybe good social programs are the way to decrease abortion, not a ban.

[Cha]

7. But John Eisenhower is voting

for Kerry!

[wildeyed]

9. Yes, and I passed that info along to them.

They are mad about the war and the deficit, too. So I am going to let them simmer for a little and make another run at them in about a week.

The good news, I have 5 'unlikely voter' ready to do early voting and vote for Kerry and Bowles tomorrow. Three have never voted before, two not since Reagan. But they willl be voting Kerry/Edwards tomorrow :-)

[faithnotgreed]

12. great job wildeyed. it does take time; slow & steady wins the race! nt

[Cha]

25. Beautiful!

I've heard of people here in New York, too, who haven't voted since Rockefellar and are registering to vote for Kerry/Edwards!

[BayouWoman]

11. Thank You!

For your words and the link. I'm not very hopeful about swaying my dad, but when I leave some reading material for my mom, I'll leave some for my dad too. It can't hurt to try. He's recently discovered the Internet. Can you recommend any sites. I know there's a Christians for Kerry site. Is ther a Catholics for Kerry site?

[wildeyed]

15. Here is another good link that someone posted here recently.

http://www.sojo.net/index.cfm?action=sojomail.display&issue=041013#5

Also, here is the best rant on the subject of religion and Bush that I have read. It mysteriously showed up in my inbox one day, I have no idea from who, so I can't link to a site. It may be too crazy for the swing vote, I never sent it to my in-laws, but I enjoyed it very much.

------------------------------------------------

Gene, I can't vote for a man who allows abortion, Euthanasia, fetal stem cell research and same sex marriage. God's laws come above ours. Read your Bible and then make a choice. I'm voting for a man of God.
Peace. -- MB Marcus 9/12/04
============================

Sunday School Lesson 01
September 12, 2004
From a Garden in Eden

I've heard others express similar thoughts, Ms. Marcus, so I really appreciate the opportunity to respond. My struggle is with how lopsided these arguments from "compassionate" conservatives really are. For instance:

Where's your concern for the 13,000 innocent Iraqi civilians (mostly women and children) who continue to be slaughtered as we abandon the search for terrorist Osama? Instead we pursued Cheney's Oil War in Iraq, a nation which made no credible threats against America. Do you recall the Commandment: thou shalt not kill? Did these folks ask to die for Bush's phony reasons?

Thirteen thousand is 4 times those who died here on 9/11. Where is your outrage for them? These were not unborn fetuses.
They were living, breathing human beings. These people, still dying there today, were not -- and never have been -- your enemies. Do you think it's God's Will that these innocents must suffer and die, and for you to ignore their deaths?

Or is this the ego-centric will of a self-professed born-again alcoholic abusing the awesome power of the White House?
More than 800 of our own sons and daughters have died since your President declared the war over on my last birthday. And counting the deaths doesn't come close to recognizing the suffering of the survivors. Please tell me, how is this God's Will?

When I was a child, I learned that Jesus Christ drove the money changers out of the Temple. That story is not so popular these days, since the Republican Party has been hijacked to promote our modern day profit-mad Pharisees. What profit it a man if he gains the whole world but loses his . . . well, you know the rest.

Another thing I learned was about it being easier to pass a camel through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. The way I see it, Mr. Kerry wants to help the 3% of our ultra-rich get to Heaven by properly taxing them to give relief to 97% of the rest of us. (That's a joke, if you didn't get it.)

Is it Christian to allow health care costs, prescription drugs, and health insurance to escalate out of reach of millions of suffering Americans, just so your largest campaign contributors can profit mightily from their misery?

Is it Christian for our people to die sooner than necessary, because your economy is so bad they cannot afford the available health care that rich people can? Is George Bush doing God's Will by sending us ordinary folks to Heaven sooner?

When will our current President demonstrate the power of being born again by learning the Christian ways of the peacemaker, the meek, and the truly 'compassionate'? Is he trying to show us how many new ways there are to take the Lord's name in vain?

Is it Christian to allow those who pave your path to power to lie, attack, slander, misrepresent, snarl and screech falsely in your name, and not denounce them for the evil-doers they are?
Would a true Christian embrace the Swift Boaters, the Zell Millers, and the CEOs of Enron, Halliburton and others who scam our Nation with glee, until they get caught?

I'll have to look back to see who it was that sold his birthright for a mess of pottage. Do you remember? No other President in our history has ever so degraded our Nation's spectacular natural resources that are our citizens'
birthright. God allowed him, as a steward of His Earth, to pass this sacred trust on to future generations better than he received it -- not to parcel it out to private enterprise to squander for short-term profit, in exchange for campaign contributions.

I appreciate and understand the things that concern you. But these are not your thoughts. You've been brainwashed by experts, turned into a mindless mimic by their side shows and window dressing to hide what they do not want you to see.
Do not feel ashamed. You have been conned by experts. These powerful forces with bottomless pockets are not doing God's Will. A thinking person does not have to ponder very long to see who they're really working for.

And when you look closely at these things that they use to distract you, it's easy to see they're not the stuff of Presidential elections, not the stuff for the best future of America.
What you ditto about so disdainfully are simply the choices of a free people, who are free because of our Nation's heritage.
The greedy NeoCons want to take away the rights and benefits of a free society from you while you're not paying attention to the issues that really matter.

So my final question is this: Has Christianity been sufficiently distorted by their false message to fool enough of our voting citizens to allow re-election of the most corrupted President in our history? Or will enough arise from the haze of false "compassion" and realize they've been had, and been had by the most beguiling of forked-tongued flim-flammers around?

In short, your President appears like he's appointed himself to the role of God's representative on Earth.
(I guess he did that so he might feel equal to Osama, who's delusion is that he is Allah's Will on Earth.) In actuality, he's only the temporary President of a secular Nation -- and not a very good one at that.

I'd be interested in your explanation of how you came to support such a severely limited view of Christianity.

[BayouWoman]

19. Thank You!

For the link and the email. I'm definitely going to make up a packet for my dad too, and your contributions will be included.

My dad is a Rep. for fiscal reasons too which is why I have a tiny bit of hope. But as he's aged, he's become more and more conservative in his Catholic faith, becoming involved in Chrisea(sp?) and other areas of hardcore conservative Catholicism.

But I'm going to try.

[wildeyed]

28. I feel obligated to try this year, because the stakes are so high

and the race is so close. But I recognize that I can only try, and that the final decision is up to the individual. We are still family after the election.

I wouldn't try if I truly thought they believed in Bush's policies. But they don't. They will only vote for him because he has an R after his name. Good luck! :hi:

[spooky3]

6. Wow, I hope you are in a sales job because you're great at it!

Wish I could influence my folks on politics, but it's hopeless (or I'm hopeless).

[BayouWoman]

13. No, not sales...

I have to feel strongly about something to be able to sell it. And even then, I sometimes go a little too far. :)

To be honest, it just sort of happened. If I would have had time to think about it, I don't know if it would have gone as well! Knowing I've already broached the subject will make the face-to-face easier--I hope!

[faithnotgreed]

8. you & your mom: respectful, mature & sane! one thing

that stuck out for me was that she said she would read material that you sent. this says a lot to me

and im no fan of clinton either... im not republican (green party) and really like kerry. he has qualities that i value and his potential as president is awesome.

thank you for your maturity and realization that this needs to be talked about and that its just as important to talk about this in a substantive way

good luck! let us know

[BayouWoman]

14. You know it's funny....

...when I was growing up my mom and I fought all the time. It wasn't until I was an adult that she and I really became close. We both realized that we had both fought so much because we are so much alike--we're both stubborn and have strong positions. We still disagree about some things but we're probably the closest two in our family. What makes me have hope for her is knowing she's a smart lady who makes up her own mind. She just needs all of the facts.


Thanks for all of the kind words. I just hope my story has a happy ending!

[faithnotgreed]

16. the fact that you tried matters most. you can talk to your mom

and she thinks for herself... with some solid facts (there are soooo many) but with these facts about things she cares about most, along with your input, clearly can make the difference

again, i just appreciate that you try, and try in a mature respectful way. its great you have this relationship.

do let us know.

[Firespirit]

17. I am hearing more and more stories like these...

It makes me feel good.

Now I've got one myself.

My grandmother is fairly well-to-do, upper middle class, and has voted Republican for as long as I can remember. But not this year! My sister (who unfortunately doesn't turn 18 until Jan.) and I have convinced her to vote for Kerry. Here's why: Back in the late 60's, her two sons--my father and uncle--were draft bait. She and my grandfather tried everything to prevent them from going to Nam. My father was the younger son and got a college deferment in 1970, but my uncle was older and was classified 1-A after he finished college. He just happened to be fairly low on the list.

She does not believe Bush* when he says there will be no draft, and she sees US as draft bait now.

My grandfather was also recently diagnosed with Alzheimer's and they are TERRIFIED that the cost of drugs will continue to skyrocket.

Bottom line: I think a good many Republicans are persuadable. I think freepers and most fundies are probably a lost cause, but it's still worth a shot to talk to Repub friends and family who are willing to listen.

[BayouWoman]

20. That's Great!

There do seem to be more and more of these stories. And it's wonderful to hear.

I think a lot of Republicans will be voting their consciences when they they finally have to pull that lever or make a mark or touch a screen.

[wildeyed]

30. It is definitely worth a shot to talk to the pubbies.

I feel that this year it is my moral obligation. They may still vote for Bush, but I will insist that they OWN their vote, that they understand exactly what they are voting for.

I don't have allot of confidence in success with the Repubs I have been working on, but I have done great with young/unaffiliated voters. As I posted earlier in this thread, I have at least 5 newbies who will be showing up to vote Kerry this year. Here's a hint, the young unaffiliateds loooove F9/11, so lend them your copy if you have one.

[blue sky at night]

21. Wow I am impressed.

The last time I had a political discussion with my Repub Mother she informed that anything not on Faux News was a lie, and that all the Democrats should be killed. (me included) It was not a pretty thing, and I laid into her about all the lies and bs from her boy. She didn't like the thing about being a dry drunk and if he was a Christian then I am leaving the church. (I am still thinking hard about that.) But I am sure I can't even discuss it anymore with her, oh well. The one thing though, my Boys aren't rocket scientists, but at least they aren't Republicans, like my brother's two Neocon idiot fucks. I praise god every day they have a rebel spirit and will Never, Ever believe the republican lies. Thanks for sharing and I know she is going to swing our way.

[BayouWoman]

22. Thank You...

...for your post. I'm sorry to hear about your mom. I have some relatives like that as well. My sister and bro-in-law are the same though not quite so in-your-face. They think I'm going to hell for my beliefs(feminism, prochoice, etc) and my non-beleifs (atheism) but they are civil enough that we can have family get-togethers. Of course it helps that I leave the room when they start talking about abortion mills and those damned Dems. :(

There's hope for my mom--and maybe my dad--but not my holier than thou sister and brother-in-law.

[Booster]

23. Run - no, race out on the 19th and buy "Going Upriver".

I haven't seen it yet, but I understand it really puts Kerry way up there in people's eyes. I'm going to buy it and force 3 20 yr olds that say they're voting for Bush to watch it, and push my luck and get them to watch "Fahrenheit 9/11". But from what I've heard, the "Going Upriver" film will bring your mom into the light.

[BayouWoman]

26. The 19th?

I didn't realize it was coming out on DVD so soon. I definitely want to see it. And then I can show it to my mom!

Thanks!

[Kat45]

24. YES--There IS a Catholics for Kerry website.

It is www.catholicsforkerry04.org

I actually went to one of their meetings (although I'm not Catholic) because I was curious. One of the leaders of the group lives in the same town as me. They're a very sincere group who genuinely believe that, based on their faith, Kerry is the man who should get their vote. I hope their website will help with your family. Good luck.

[BayouWoman]

27. Thank you for the link!

I'll definitely let my dad know about it. I'm not sure how he'll react. But I'm defintiely going to try! Thanks again!

[Francine Frensky]

29. Just a quick point on the abortion issue you should know:

(perhaps you already know this, but I KNOW your dad and sister etc. don't):

Abortions declined under Clinton. They have INCREASED under bush. If you go to Daily Kos there is a diary over there about this, where a pro-lifer has done research on actual rates of abortion, state by state, and concluded that this admin is a pro-life NIGHTMARE.

Think about it: two-thirds of abortions are for lack of money. And think about our economy stuck in a rut, cuts to state programs for Medicaid, general cuts in healthcare, the min. wage stuck at $5 an hour ($5 an hour!!! how could ANYONE on minimum wage afford even ONE baby???) ... and then consider that the second reason for an abortion is that a man is not present, and how many men without jobs want the responsibility of a baby? Again, it's the jobs.

Also, the second point I would make to any "one-issue" voters is: why hasn't bush outlawed abortion yet? He's got 7 of 9 supremes appointed by repubs, he's got congress, he's got the senate, he's passed other unpopular legislation, he's had four years.... what is he waiting for????

Obviously, rove knows he needs this wedge issue more than he cares about really ending abortion.

Anyway, a difficult battle for you, but you have reality on your side.

[lastliberalintexas]

33. That's what I keep asking the abortion voters

After all, the repubs have had the White House, the House, the Senate and the Supreme Court for the past TWO YEARS. So why is it that abortion is still legal? Hmm, makes you wonder, doesn't it?

[intheflow]

31. You give me hope for my Republican mother! n/t

[txindy]

32. Well, I don't know if there's time for this

or even if your mother would read it, but there is always 'The Family' by Kitty Kelley. My mother, for some reason, always liked Barbara Bush (the elder) until she read that book. LOL! Since then she keeps throwing her arms in the air and exclaiming, "That whole family is UNREAL!" and "Those people are UNBELIEVABLE!" It does my heart good after listening to four solid years of "Oh, don't be so hard on B*sh, it's not his fault." **gag** Believe me, I've never had so many phone calls from my mother in so short a period of time as I did while she was reading Kelley's book! The outrage, disappointment, and anger jumped right through the phone -- and it was all aimed at people named B*sh!
My mother was an early voter today -- for John Forbes Kerry. :toast: :toast: :toast: