Memes Dont Matter Any More

[demwing]

Does anybody actually still believe that Kerry is a flip flopper? I doubt it, yet we hear stories on DU all the time about our mothers, our brothers, our friends or our co-workers who employ the same illogic to justify their support for Bush.

I'll bet they don't believe the hype, but in these strange days, belief isn't required-just a tight grip. Like a drowning voter base, they'll grab any rope, any line, any meme by which they can stay afloat. After all, their very livestyles depend on the avoidance of complex thought. Belief requires thought. So does disbelief, for that matter. But grabbing hold of the hype-line requires only the ability to keep on holding. Hold on through the storm, hold on through the dark of night, and hold on when the opposition tries to tell you that that rope in your hands actually ends in a noose.

Dont think. Just hold that line.

So the flip flop meme isn't really designed to convince the unconvinced. Perhaps it once was, but that time has passed. The numbers of the undecideds grow less by each day, and who can say what these near-voters are looking for to help them make their decision.

Perhaps they're not really undecided, but merely incapable of decision? Maybe they're not truly undecided, but just waiting for a clear frontrunner to emerge so that they can join the club? On the other hand (if you have three hands) the great undecideds could have severe voter's block. I know that back in the day, when I still had a GPA to worry about, there were papers I just could not write until the night before the due date. Are the undecideds just waiting for Nov 2nd to make up their minds? Are the undecideds just slacker students, and the USA one enormous party college?

If they are, do you think that the "Kerry is a flip flopper" meme makes a damn bit of difference to them?

No, the meme isn't a tool to convince undecideds, not at this point. Its a tool to maintain the loyal, an ideological lifeline. If your friends and family still hold on to this line, you might think twice about trying to turn them. They haven't thought this out. This is not a decision that they've come to after much debate.

This is a prepackaged thought that they've accepted because it rests easier on their minds. Again, its their lifeline, so don't be surprised when they won't let it go. They cant let it go. At this point, its all they've got.

So, let them go. Let the undecideds go. Fuck 'em. (No offense, mom)

And oh yes, let us absolutely fuck the polls.

Lets turn out our base, and take back this damn country while we can.

[MatrixEscape]

1. Good points.

I don't understand the antipathy towards undecideds, though. It seems that some people feel a sense of frustration of annoyance with them.

While undecided may suggest indecisive to some, it could also mean that some people do not adhere dogmatically to a particular party-line. I would tend to have respect for a thoughtful person who wants to see everything played out and information that is presented to the very end before they make their final choice in a matter.

What counts in the end, is the act of casting one's ballot and the ensuing outcome.

[johnnyrocket]

2. Co-worker today said: "I'm not sure who to vote for..."

"...because I don't like Kerry's politics, but every time I look at Bush, I see an idiot."

I think the undecideds are TORN more than anything, and they need a good reason to realize Kerry is the rational choice.

[demwing]

3. I am happy that the debates received so much attention

that means that some people DO care. I'm ecstatic about anything that implies a lessening in voter apathy.

But, there are a little over two weeks left.

If you haven't seen a difference between these two men, what exactly do you think will happen within the last 2 weeks of this campaign that WILL define the difference?

(I'm obviously speaking of the rhetorical "you," not you personally johnnyrocket)

At this point, undecided are either people who have come late to the game, and have no idea what is going on, have not been paying attention, or don't care to pay attention. They may see their indecision as a positive trait, as if they can't be bothered with thinking about political issues. Too gauche.

The differences have always been clear.

The issues could not be more relevant.

The choice is simple. 4 more years of war, unemployment, deficits, and degrading civil liberties...

or change.

[johnnyrocket]

4. People see a DIFFERENCE, I think many don't like their choices!

[Dr Fate]

5. An independent asked me "Why is Kerry such a flip-flopper..."

After talking to him, he was certainly no a ditto-bot. He was an independent concerned about the issues- he was even even leaning Kerry. Yet he bought the "flop flop" meme.

I spoke to an old man, a staunch Democrat, who kept repeating to me "Where is John Edwards???" Why is he on vacation? Where is he? I read this morning that he is nowhere to be found."

I talked to a nice lefty-Liberal woman who INSISTED that the NY Times and CNN was "very Liberal" and that it was unfair for me to blame them for anti-Kerry stories.

SO- I disagree. Memes WORK and we need to use them more.

[johnnyrocket]

6. Memes? How about facts? Like Bush is a fucking idiot.

Unfit to be president.

[Dr Fate]

7. You cant "fool" Wolf Blitzer into repeating that over & over.

So therefore it is not an effective "meme"

[demwing]

8. When I say that memes don't matter

I'm referring to these last two weeks in which we now find ourselves.

Memes work initially, but those that are hanging on to the anti-Kerry memes at this point, IMO, are either looking for a reason to vote against Kerry, or have not been paying attention, for whatever reason.

If someone hasn't been paying attention, and its two weeks from election day, and they profess to be politically motivated and thoughtful...???

I say theres a credibilty breakdown at some point in that equation.

[Dr Fate]

9. Gotcha- perhaps you have a point, but I'm holding my verdict. n/t

n/t

[demwing]

11. agree to disagree?

Are you a flip flopper? :silly:

[Dr Fate]

12. Nah- just "mixched meshaghes"

n/t

[ClassWarrior]

14. It'd be nice if things were different...

...but we just can't deny that some people don't really start paying attention - in the thoughtful and motivated way you want to see it - until November 1. That's reality. They also don't go shopping till Christmas eve. They're not bad. They're not stupid. It's just not a priority for them.

I KNOW! I KNOW! I don't understand that either. But it is reality.

And memes are still in play for many of these people. We STILL have time to kill these memes, or crowd 'em out with some of our own. I say whatever it takes to pull in an undecided or to flip a Bush*-leaner...

24.

[truthpusher]

10. Flip Flopper is about the weakest meme out there....

...right below 'your just a Big Stinky Head'

...I am grateful that they chose this one to run with, because it makes all that follow look ridiculous.

[ClassWarrior]

13. Memes ALWAYS matter.

It's always just a matter of degree. If things get dire enough for folks, more of them will look behind the curtain and see the truth. Then that particular meme loses much of its power. But memes are ALWAYS at work. We need to make them OUR memes. It does us NO GOOD to deny their existence, just because we don't like them or don't understand them.

NEVER underestimate the enemy. Sun Tsu.

24.