Geesh, Californians. Just how many props will you guys have on the ballot?

[Maddy McCall]

I have heard of Props 68 and 72. What else are you all voting on? What is Gropenator's role in these props?

[FuzzyHamster]

1. way too many to count

I'll probably figure out most of them when the election comes closer.

Although I support stem cell research, I'm wary of the 3 billion bond. It has very poor oversight... it essentially creates a private corporation that is not responsible to the legislature and thus the people. It's also a lot of money... the entire UC system spent about that same amount over 25 years for all of its research, not just focused in a small area of science.

[cheshire]

4. I'm leary of passing much under AS.

[FuzzyHamster]

8. what's "AS"?

?

[A-Schwarzenegger]

13. me

[A-Schwarzenegger]

2. Just 15.

[Maddy McCall]

9. Wow...Considering that many people will read every word of each...

prop, I bet it will take HOURS of standing in line to get up to the booth. I feel for you guys. :-(

[cheshire]

3. I haven't counted but it's missing the throw out the girlie man. Did you

know he met with Ken Lay prior to the recall for Grey Davis. It was all a set up. I just read this. I knew it but I'm pissed all over again.

[Warren DeMontague]

7. Yep. Met with Ken Lay during the energy "Crisis".

Of course, I knew the energy crisis was a crock. Particularly when they started trying to blame it on "environmentalists".

http://www.consumerwatchdog.org/utilities/pr/pr003708.php3

[cheshire]

10. The more I find out the more I have to remind myself I'm a liberal.

[Warren DeMontague]

5. Yeah, we're about overdue for a "You Wacky-Ass Californians" thread...

Along with the inevitable line about about the "gropenator".

At which point I inevitably ask, "so, I guess you don't want our 55 EVs, then?"

;-) Not to sound pissy.. I'm just constantly astounded at some of the CA-bashing that goes on here. After all we do for y'all. Without us, you'd be royally f*cked about now, wouldn'tcha?

Anyway, in answer to your question:

I count 15 Statewide Propositions. Now, I happen to be a big fan of the initiative process, generally. For example, without it, we wouldn't be way ahead of the rest of the nation in terms of dealing reasonably with the drug war... (waaaay too many "vested interests" tied to that one in normal political channels, IMHO)

Most of the 15 are bond issues. Children's hospitals, that sort of thing. We have another one which will mandate health coverage for businesses over a certain size. While I think A SPHC is really the only reasonable long-term solution to the Health Care crisis, I appreciate the fact that at least my state is trying to mitigate the problem somewhat.

And, we have Prop. 71-- Stem Cell Research Funding. Which will probably pass. Another area where we are way ahead of the rest of the country.

We have a proposition to add reasonable limitations to the 3 strikes initiative, so that people who steal videotapes don't end up doing 25 to life.

Only one, as far as I know, has anything to do with the so-called "gropenator".

[cheshire]

6. Relax it was a question. We are all on the same side.

[meow mix]

11. yeah, this socaler does not understand that outburst.

he is the gropenator, nothing "so-called" about it.

[Maddy McCall]

15. Thanks, guys...

I always use gropenator because I can spell that, versus Schwarzenegger. See--I probably just misspelled his name then. :-)

By no means was I meaning to criticize Californians. :shrug:

[Warren DeMontague]

19. I Sincerely Apologize.

Really sorry if it seemed I was going off on you. Truth be told, this Sinclair thing is chafing my shorts, and I'm sure it ties into what will undoubtedly be Karl Rove's attempt to spend the last 3 weeks talking about the 'most important issue facing the US Electorate'-- i.e. John Kerry protesting Vietnam 30 years ago..

I'm just waiting to see what the Monday morning result is once everyone is manning the appropriate battle stations.

[Warren DeMontague]

18. Okay, let's try so-called governor.

Because the process for his getting there was more than questionable.

I just don't think he is indicative of where Californians stand politically, and as such I get a bit testy when he's the first thing mentioned with regards to our state.. That's all. Sorry.

Edit: Addendum- I have no doubt in my mind that Arnold has been guilty of some serious gropenation (is that a word?) So I certainly wasn't trying to defend the guy.

[Warren DeMontague]

17. Agreed. I tried to answer it.

No worries.

[NNadir]

23. As an ex-Californian (almost 15 years), I can say that the California

constitution sucks.

Proposition 13 had to be one of the worst "initiatives" passed in my time there, but many, like that disgusting bill, were also put up by corporate interests with no interest in the state's future. One year three or four conflicting car insurance bills all passed, and if I recall, no one knew what to do.

I've lived in plenty of places, including Arkansas when Clinton was governor, and New Jersey, but nothing matches California for a poor State Constitution.

Many of the founding fathers feared direct democracy, and - with the California experience in mind - for good reason.

[Warren DeMontague]

24. Right. So, on issues like the drug war and medical marijuana,

where terminally ill people are having their doors kicked down by the DEA and people being busted for minor non-violent possession offenses are being sent away for longer than rapists and murderers, we should just accept the 'status quo', because our elected representatives, including the ones from our party, have historically displayed such a high level of 'bravery' on these issues?

No. The initiative process is there, and in several cases- not just the ones I listed above but also like prop. 71, the stem cell initiative we're hopefully going to pass this year, I'm extremely glad it is an option for us.

And, for the record... You know, the "founding fathers" had some excellent ideas and all, but in addition to their fears of direct democracy, they also saddled us with an archaic system that guarantees, given politicial realities, a federal government that is far more conservative than where the majority of the American people sit philosophically. Proportionally, in the US Governement, the votes of 'hicks in the sticks' weigh quite a bit more than the votes of people in populous states. 400,000 Wyomingans? - 2 Senators. 33 Million Californians? - 2 Senators. So, I'm not sure the founding fathers' disdain for direct democracy, or at least direct representation, was always necessarily a good thing.

[Dem2theMax]

12. 435 at last count. You should see the voter 'pamphlet.'

Takes a wheelbarrow to get it into your house.

It's almost that bad. Typical for Calif. And actually, so far, we've received two 'pamphlets.' One is a lot thicker than the other. Heaven only knows what will come in the mail next week. :crazy:

[cheshire]

14. Yes and look at all the time they gave us. Trying to stop us working to

get Kerry in. LOL

[Piperay]

21. Well actually there are 16 State Measures

and a few county ones (here in Los Angeles Co), it just seems like there is 435.:puke: x(

[Senior citizen]

16. I don't read most of 'em.

I went to the Democratic Party site and noted their recommendations, then I went to the Green Party site and did the same. Where both agree, that's how I vote. When they disagree or are neutral, I have to actually read the darned proposition to see what it is. Lucky for me that leaves very few I have to read.

[Piperay]

20. I hate all those propositions

and I really resent :mad: having all that crap on the ballot, most of them are put on by special interests ( and I don't mean good special interests either). I usually vote on the ones that are obvious and leave the rest blank, I'd rather not vote on something than vote the wrong way. :shrug:

[Warren DeMontague]

22. I think some of them have done some real good--

that couldn't have been accomplished through normal channels.

Prop 215. Medical Marijuana, and Prop. 36, mandating treatment instead of prison for non-violent drug offenders... A pair of long overdue checks on an out of control "drug war" that politicians are terrified of touching for fear of 30 second sound bites calling them 'soft on crime'... Of course, Prop 215 has been viciously fought, like Oregon's compassionate pain meds for the terminally ill legislation, by our ultra-puritannical AG. But nevertheless, it is one area where I am very proud my state is on the vanguard. Likewise, I think that it's wonderful we, as Californians, are standing up for stem cell research, and not letting it be held hostage (at least in our state) by a bunch of religious extremists.