I doubt if Bush won over any women tonight..

[Jade Fox]

That pugnacious bully-boy routine is an instant turn-off for most women,
in my experience. The Bush camp obviously thought aggression was
the way to go after last week's bizarre Dubya performance, but it has
problems of its own. May even lose him the support of women who were
leaning towards voting for Bush.

[booksenkatz]

1. Only the skeerd ones who need pertecktin'

The majority of us, the ones who are freethinkers, are Kerry women.

[aden_nak]

2. Shhhh! Dubya doesn't know that women can vote.

[grasswire]

3. Bush was too much....

....like every woman's first husband.

Ranting, hysterical, immature.

No thanks. No thanks.

[Jade Fox]

4. "like every woman's first husband" LOL!

That's just what I meant. Mr. Wrong--most women (of any maturity) can
spot him at 20 paces.

[Tansy_Gold]

16. No, it's "first EX-husband."

I still have my first husband -- 35+ years -- and he's NOTHING like boosh!

:-)

[Dems Will Win]

5. He screamed at the voters and so the TV audience

You're not supposed to get that hot in these town hall things. It was like he was at one of his own rallies.

[LiberalFighter]

22. Must be from his experience with town-hall meetings

USAToday had comparison between gw* and Kerry.

Bush might have an edge in St. Louis

gw* with 19 town-hall meetings STAGED
Kerry with 72 town-hall meetings

[wellstone_democrat]

13. Yeah! Reminded me of mine as a matter of fact

hadn't thought of that but you are correct.

[in_cog_ni_to]

6. One sheeple broad that was in the CNN interactive audience

said Bush swayed her tonight. She was undecided until TONIGHT. :eyes: I believe her, don't you? Geeeeeez. <sigh>

[donco6]

7. And not when he implied that women who need late term . . .

. . . abortions should be denied them, even if it means their death.

[Jade Fox]

9. That whole schpeil was creepy....

Bush gave, as an example of working to prevent abortions, giving the fetus
status equal to the mother in the case of murder of a pregnant woman.

How does that prevent abortions? :wtf:

[donco6]

20. I would have asked as follow up:

So, killing embryos is unethical, but dropping bombs on Iraqi children is OK? Why is that?

[high density]

24. Yes

And when we use tax money to blow up Iraqi kids, that's just fine and dandy as well!

[donco6]

26. Of course - in fact,

let's spend MORE money developing bigger bombs to kill more innocents! But don't touch those stem cells, nosirree.

[Hog lover]

32. he needs babies to become 18 and fodder

for more of his idiotic invasions - it's sure okay with him to kill them after they are born, isn't it?

[Nobody]

44. And not one word about preventing pregnancies

He yammered on about denying access to this or that procedure. But what about preventing the unwanted pregnancy to begin with?

[donco6]

50. You mean - teach kids about contraception?

What a concept!

[smirkymonkey]

8. I am sure he turned a LOT of them off

tonight. Women know weakness when they see it. Nobody is fooled by the aggressive macho asshole posture.

[amandabeech]

10. A man who is confident and comfortable in his skin,

does not need to affect a fake cowboy accent and swagger to prove his masculinity. That young woman in Houston who Bush's parents convinced him not to marry should consider herself very lucky.

[Jade Fox]

11. He doesn't even do it well.....

I never thought ANYTHING could make me appreciate Reagan, but at
least he had some pretty good moves he learned from being an actor.

[smirkymonkey]

19. Exactly. Kerry, on the other hand, is a REAL man.

No swagger there. He doesn't need it. He is secure in his manhood and it shows.

It amazes me that anyone can see the two of them together and not think that the Chimp looks like a wussy little punk next to Kerry.

[tinrobot]

12. Buchanan said the same thing...

Spinning it as : "this will go over well with men"

[Jade Fox]

15. WHY?????

What men find that crap admirable? I don't seem to know any...

[bkcc]

14. I know of one woman he won over.

CNN had a group of undecided voters that watched the debate.
Afterwards, they interviewed the participants and there was a woman who said that after *Bush's performance tonight, she was definitely voting for him now.

She didn't say what specifically he said that swayed her opinion.

My guess was his cute use of the word "internets".

[CJCRANE]

48. Strangely

after the debate CNN did say that Bush had a slight edge with the female undecideds and Kerry with the male undecideds in their focus group.

For me though, Bush's so-called "aggressive" behaviour came as off very defensive. Some one who is confident in themself doesn't need to shout and hector to get their point across.

[Joe Turner]

17. Nope he came off like the Pycho he is

And a mighty retarded one at that. Bush by losing it, and ranting over the moderator confirms peoples' worst intuitions about this Jerk.

The Kerry SURGE continues. Shrub, people are tired of YOU AND YOUR TRAITOROUS FAMILY... Enjoy your early retirement.

Kerry you were Fabulous!

[ScreamingMeemie]

18. Especially on the abortion. It's black and white. Screw the 12 year old

rape victim...Screw the pregnant woman with ovarian cancer. The emperor thinks he has spoken. That's going to get a lot of people on his side. /sarcasm off.

[Carolinian]

52. GROUP MATERNITY HOMES- that's what bush said he wants.

In case you missed it Bush wants to revive the unwed mother's homes that were spread around the US prior to abortion. Young ladies, I'm old enough to have seen how this solution ruined young girl's lives and flooded group homes with unwanted children that weren't adopted. Believe me, you don't want to go back there.

[evilqueen]

21. Bush doesn't see the need to win over women...

In his view, we should all be put "in our proper place" which is the kitchen and bedroom, barefoot and pregnant.

We shouldn't aspire to careers that might compete with caucasian men; we represent a threat if we don't fit into this rightwing stereotype. We shouldn't expect equal pay for equal work because, he thinks, men need to support their families and women don't.

Fatherless children apparently don't deserve the same opportunities for health, education, or jobs.

In Bush's world, if you aren't part of a "nookylar" family, then you just don't exist. The real world, however, is not something he's familiar with.

Any self-respecting woman should not only NOT vote for Bush, she should get off her arse and find out the truth behind the rhetoric and base her vote on which candidate closer represents her viewpoint on the important issues... machismo isn't an important issue.

[AP]

23. Bush's stem cell research flip flop was total pandering.

[skygazer]

25. It's not just the way he presents himself

But the things he says. Lower the rate of abortion by putting young unwed mothers into group homes? :wtf:

His "climate of life" or whatever bullshit title he gives it is his way of saying, "keep 'em barefoot and pregnant."

[Awsi Dooger]

27. Correct, according to the women at my debate watching party tonight

It was 6-2 for Kerry among women, compared to 7-1 in the first debate. The men were 5-5 tonight.

Even the people voting for Bush are making more and more favorable comments about Kerry.

Carlos Watson got it right again, identical to the VP debate, focusing immediately on who likely did the best among undecideds and naming Kerry in that regard. Among the people in my group who I subjectively isolated as the true undecideds prior to the debate, they went 5-1 for Kerry.

[Jade Fox]

28. Where can I read what Watson said about the VP debate? Thx!

[Awsi Dooger]

30. I don't have a link, but it was virtually the same as tonight

Something like, "It's not who won or lost, but which candidate connected with the undecideds. I think John Edwards did a better job of that tonight."

[Bossy Monkey]

31. cnn.com, I'm pretty sure; gimme a second

Edit: He's not there this time. This is happy news, though:
http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=37811
Carlos Watson: "I think when all is said and done, John Kerry ultimately will be perceived as the winner of this debate." (CNN, 10/8/04)
EditEdit: Sorry, you said VP debate; unfortunately I can't find that either. Either CNN dropped it down the memory hole or they haven't let him on the site since the 1st debate.

[Crunchy Frog]

29. Well, he won me over

with his manly forcefulness. Sorry I'm going to have to leave this board and go register at Free Republic now. Bye.

<heavy sarcasm>

[OverThere]

33. Winning Over Women

First, nobody in their right mind takes at face value (a) any of the posted talking heads on either side who are planted to say "my guy won" and (b)the news websites on-line polls. Those talking heads are utterly predictable. When one of them doesn't, the person is either stupid (as can't follow distributed talking points) or caught in a candid moment. Bob Kerry has been known to be both stupid and candid, but people in the last analysis will judge for themselves.

Second, I think your observation about Bush not winning over women may say more about the women you know than the women available to be had or in your phrase "won over." My own observation about women is that most of them like and are attracted to strong, self confident men. Bush came across that way tonight. Kerry comes across as a bit too angular, a bit too refined. Haughty is not the right word. Perhaps an adult Richie Rich. Kerry's use of the reference "the President" 70+ times and in each of those 70+ times to criticize him in, thus, a personal way, is more likely to be seen by women as a bully than anything Bush did or said. He referred to Kerry as "my opponent" only 10 times or so.

Kerry has his work cut out for him by a shrinking female gender gap. I think his performance tonight did not help him on that score.

[Jade Fox]

37. His name is JOHN Kerry. And my analysis stands.

[Awsi Dooger]

38. Nice desperate try

Virtually the entire surge by Kerry in the past 10 days has been reopening the gender gap. I heard a 50-38 lead among women quoted today.

Bush briefly stole a chunk of women with the jingoistic closing of his convention speech. It was soft support and he forfeited it with the performance in debate #1, near identical to Gore in 2000. Gore's September poll lead in 2000 was primarily due to shifting support among women also, according to every respected analysis at the time.

Best news for Kerry: the majority of undecideds in every swing state are women. Check out the state polls at American Research Group.com if you doubt that.

[amandabeech]

39. Women do like confident men, but as you can see by reading

our posts here, we don't think that Bush is a confident man. We think that he is a small, petulant, insecure man.

As far as Kerry being "too refined," I don't see a well-read, very informed man, who is an athlete (I love hockey) and a music lover, and who has good manners to be "too refined."

Bush embarrassed himself and Laura by being banned from the Reagan White House by Mrs. Reagan because he relieved himself in a public location in the White House. I for one would never tolerate such boorish behavior, but I can see Bush doing it.

You must be a man. Most men don't know that women of a certain age can see through their act, and many young ones can as well. You won't get very far with your arguments here.

[eridani]

43. 'Strong' is not the same as 'posturing asshole' n/t

[Carolinian]

34. The comment about wanting "group maternity homes" should scare

all women into running immediately to the polls to cast their vote for Kerry. Bush wants to take us back to the unwed mother homes of 1960.

[Silver Gaia]

46. Wait a minute... GROUP MATERNITY HOMES???!!!?

I must've missed that! OMG! Jeez! I've gotta go find that in the transcripts now. Did he actually SAY that in those words exactly or did he imply it? Either way, I'm appalled!

Gads...I just watched the part where he lost his temper with the moderator again. This guy has GOT to go. No No No No No I do NOT want this creep in charge of MY country. Never did want him there in the first farking place. ugh ugh ugh

[Carolinian]

49. That is what I heard. It's important that this doesn't slid through the

cracks.

[kentuck]

35. I agree, Jade Fox...

I think Bush just lost a lot of women votes with his arrogant and petulant display tonight.

[marlakay]

36. msnbc was saying that Bush will win the women because of

how forceful he was with the part where he went at the moderator and forced his answer. I was insulted that they said women my age group 35-55 go for Bush. Not any of the women I know! We are all late 40's early 50's. I feel more scared by Bush and the reason I am working so hard for Kerry is Bush scares me to death. I fear more wars with him.

[Homerr]

40. What about the blond woman that asked about abortion?

Was she a Bushie? Did Kerry sway her with his answer, or did chimp ruin it with his "it's black or white" routine?

[Carolinian]

51. She was in love with Bush. She would love to go to a maternity group

home and have Bush's baby out of wedlock. Rove planted this one.

[Pithy Cherub]

41. The shouting

coupled with the focus on terror and a less informed Bush on the bread and butter issues. He is amazingly good at making himself burnt toast. The next debate in Tempe is his worst nightmare.

[Bongo Prophet]

42. Maybe Black women? After all...

the Dred Scott case is safe under his watch.:eyes:

[allalone]

45. too funny, all the talking heads

before the debate were saying that bush would do well because he is so comfortable and familiar with the town hall format. oh dear!

[Silver Gaia]

47. Never Mind...

I just caught it on re-play on C-span and he DID say he was in favor of GROUP MATERNITY HOMES. Oh.. my.. gawd. Thanks for pointing that out to me. I did miss it the first time as he almost mumbled it toward the end of his ramble on abortion. No No No This can't happen.

[leftofthedial]

53. the little bushturd hasn't won a woman

since he knocked up Pickles with the "twins."

Unless you count his sessions with Condi and her cattle prod.