Flight 77 passenger list strange.....

[mac2]

http://www.911review.org/Wiki/Flight77Passengers.shtml Main article about passengers
http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/09/19/hijacked.planes/ CNN passenger list..."very low"

Very detailed and researched site that has referrences to all sorts of others. Too many unanswered questions for me.

It's beginning to look like the 9\11 attack also had the airline (United & American Airlines)CEOs or at least managers from those cities involved in the event. They even had the arrogance and gall to invest in the stock market to fall prior to the event. This has to be a world criminal network.

The planes were over loaded with fuel and had very few passengers on board. This type of event and plan required inside people....not a few foreign ME men. Wall Street investments by Airlines, banks, etc. shows....they knew and profited off of it. They should be in jail. Foreign security company CEO also had to help in the plot. Media played it's part too by the cover up and fear campaign.

Was Assistant Attorney General Ted Olson's wife on that jet that hit the Pentagon or did he just off her? The murders on that day were mind-boggling. Ted Olson started the story of the passengers calling etc. Yes...they have a lot to hide but the dots connect back to the same people each time. I heard, Ted Olson is re-marrying.

The "terrorists" weren't who CNN suspects. They could not have pulled off such an involved and complicated "stand down" and profit taking. It is our own government and their friends. Airline, security, and defense had to be involved in the plot with our leaders. Who profited off 9/11? They did big time.

The media and government keeps it under wraps...including most the Congress because they don't want their party to lose the elections. They may not know the details but are cowards and greedy. Anyone trying to tell the story is accused of being a "conspriacy nut" or a "traditor".

If someone argues that Suddam killed his own citizens, remind them of 9/11 and how our President just sat there while people jumped out of buildinging to a horrible death. The Pentagon crash could have been avoided...there was enough time. Even now many Americans are being injured and dying on foreign soil for his profit and power agenda. We aren't even counting the number of innocents who have died in Afghanistan and Iraq because of his agenda...hundreds of thousands...injured, homeless, without a future, etc.

It makes me sick to my stomach when I think about what really happened to those passengers on Flight 77.

I'm very proud of ordinary Americans, professionals, experts in their field, etc. who have spent so many hours sifting and digging to get information about 9\11. They are patriots and very brave at that.

[leyton]

1. I disagree.

What about this paragraph from the article? It makes sense that the terrorists would have chosen an early morning flight that would have few people on board:

"Many investigators suspect the terrorists at the very least shopped for flights with low passenger loads, making it easier for them -- presumably armed only with knives and box cutters -- to prevent passenger uprisings. "

On this I disagree with you as well:

"The Pentagon crash could have been avoided...there was enough time."

I believe there was something akin to an hour to ninety minutes before the crashes in New York and the crash in Washington. You expect that the President would be notified of both crashes, collect more details, pull out of his ass the idea that the next target was the Pentagon (as opposed to the capitol or the White House or Camp David), which would have been crucial to the response, seeing as it houses the DOD, and then transmit the order to evacuate it? I don't buy it. Nobody could have guessed that the Pentagon would have been hit. And if Bush evacuated every government building, then he would have no good way of keeping tabs on what was going on abroad or in the United States. In fact, if I were POTUS on that day, I'd probably order the airspace around DC to be cleared and shoot down planes approaching it, but I don't know that I'd be that eager to shut down the Pentagon.

If there was a failure on the part of the Bush administration, it was that it didn't heed warnings before September 11, not because it failed to act decisively on September 11.

[peacetalksforall]

2. You don't make sense...

the a/c was unaccounted for - military jets can fly faster than commercial jets - we have seen a map of the route - the route had to be established from some evidence...and not necessarily a day or week later. Are you saying that the airlines didn't know two of their ac were unaccounted for or if they did, they didn't contact anyone?

Not buying your words.

[leyton]

3. They did, I'm sure.

I don't know how air traffic control works, but from the reports I read during the days after 9/11 I got the impression that the pilots were not constantly talking to the air traffic controllers and that the only sign something was amiss was when a plane would deviate substantially from the flight plan.

And just because there are planes headed towards Washington doesn't mean that the pentagon is the obvious target (in fact, it's not a good target at all, if you're looking to do a lot of damage). And I'd like to re-emphasize that if I were POTUS during a terrorist attack, I'd want the DoD up and running so I can know if there are other things going on worldwide - terrorist activities, coups, etc. And I wouldn't want to have any problems with the command and control structure. So I would be reluctant to evacuate the Pentagon. I'd be more focused on the White House and the capitol.

[RC]

4. Not only did the planes deviate from their flight

plan, they turned off their transponders, making it harder to track.

Still our defenses did nothing! Nothing! Until the Pentagon was hit with whatever hit it. And it was not anything as large as a 757.

[Toby109]

5. Yea and if I were POTUS on 9/11,

I would not have sat in a classroom full of children listening to a story about a hungry caterpillar for twenty minutes while the nation was under attack.

[leyton]

6. I don't believe Bush did either.

It wasn't clear until the second plane hit that there was an attack.

[RedSock]

7. wrong.

At approximately 8:48 a.m. on the morning of September 11, 2001, the first pictures of the burning World Trade Center were broadcast on live television. The news anchors, reporters, and viewers had little idea what had happened in lower Manhattan, but there were some people who did know. By that time, the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), the North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD), the National Military Command Center, the Pentagon, the White House, the Secret Service, and Canada's Strategic Command all knew that three commercial airplanes had been hijacked. They knew that one plane had been flown deliberately into the World Trade Center's North Tower; a second plane was wildly off course and also heading toward Manhattan; and a third plane had abruptly turned around over Ohio and was flying back toward Washington, DC.

more:
http://complete911timeline.org/timeline/main/essayaninterestingday.html

[leyton]

9. I stand corrected.

*

[BeFree]

8. Gotta be kidding....

It wasn't clear until the second plane hit that there was an attack

It may not have been clear to you, sir, but to those whose job it is to protect America, it was clear. They knew it before it happened. In fact, they MIHOP and no amount of whitewashing will ever completely cover-up their complicity.

Ya know...I've seen a few "Caveman conspiracists" cross this forum. Most of them fairly lame. Hell, all of 'em are lame, and are, in fact, enablers of Bush and his miserable failures. Thanks, but no thanks, I ain't buying.

[TrogL]

11. If you don't know how air traffic controls works...

why are you stating your opinion about air traffic control?

[Phil_Jayhan]

10. Mac, I hear ya. Check out the Bumble Planes

mac-

ya me too. I have a quesy feeling in my stomach each time I delve into this to find out more truth;

if that made you ill, read this peice by Carol Valentine; Flight of the Bumble Planes.

http://www.public-action.com/911/bumble.html


I think this is probably the closest idea of what really happened with the 4 flights that day;

enjoy-
pj :)

[MercutioATC]

13. Just a couple of issues with that:

Aside from the fact that it requires the involvement of too many people,

1) Pilots would never turn off their transponders in response to a message like that. They'd first confirm with ATC.

2) The "target substitution" scenario as presented would have been extremely difficult to pull off. Since the entire operation hinges on a perfect execution of this one part, it would have constituted an unacceptable risk to the entire plan. I don't believe anybody would hinge a plan on a long shot like this.

3) Packing 4 plane's worth of bodies in a single aircraft and crashing it would have left an unacceptable number of body parts on the ground. Remember, they DO catalog them as they recover them.

4) As far as the size of the first aircraft that his the WTC, eyewitness reports are notoriously unreliable, especially when scale is involved like this (BIG building). Hell, I thought the second plane that hit looked smaller than a commercial airliner because of the scale involved.

5) Prior to 9/11, aircraft frequently flew at much less than capacity, especially the larger planes. Light loads were a fact, not a mystery.

There are just too many holes in this theory...even without looking hard.

[DulceDecorum]

14. Re: Involvement of too many people

How many people did they need
to involve the Coalition
in the war against Iraq
which was "caused" by Saddam Hussein "possessing" weapons of mass destruction?

[MercutioATC]

15. There's a slight difference between the slaughter of innocent American

civilians and waging a war that (at the time) over 70% of the public agreed with. You're comparing apples and oranges.

[DulceDecorum]

16. Perhaps 70% of the neoconned freeper morans did

but the rest of us did not.

Cities jammed in worldwide protest of war in Iraq
Police in London, England, said turnout Saturday was 750,000, the largest demonstration ever in the British capital. The organizers put the figure at 2 million. In Germany, 500,000 protested, and 300,000 gathered in 60 towns and cities across France.
The biggest demonstrations seen in Europe in years were part of marches by millions across the globe, from the Antarctic to Iceland. (Full story)
The demonstrations followed a pivotal day for the United Nations in which a stark division between members of the Security Council was pronounced.
http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/02/15/sprj.irq.protests.main/

A day of worldwide protests against a looming US-led war on Iraq has culminated in giant peace rallies in Washington, San Francisco and other US cities.
More than 50,000 Americans converged on the National Mall in the centre of Washington, in one of the biggest protests since the build-up for war began.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2672809.stm

Anti-war protests span the globe
Tens of thousands of people worldwide have taken to the streets to stage the latest series of demonstrations against the conflict in Iraq.
There have been rallies in Australia and New Zealand, the Middle East and Asia, while in the US marches are planned in Washington and other major cities.
Demonstrations are also being held in Paris, Brussels and London, where protesters gathered in the city's Hyde Park for an afternoon of speeches.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/2875555.stm
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+site:news.bbc.co.uk+iraq+war+protests

Please remember that
WAR pResident George Dubya Bush
has done EVERYTHING IN HIS POWER
to block the investigation of the events of September 11.

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- President Bush personally asked Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle Tuesday to limit the congressional investigation into the events of September 11, congressional and White House sources told CNN.
http://www.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/01/29/inv.terror.probe/

What I can't understand is why he doesn't want to talk about his more recent history, specifically his behavior before and during the attacks on 9/11? We have now been told that Bush cannot spare more than a single hour (1.2 seconds per victim) to answer a few of the commission's outstanding questions about 9/11.
Somehow the families of the victims found the strength and courage to go on living. Surely the president can find the courage to answer in public, under oath, all the questions the full commission might have about his behavior before and during the 9/11 attacks? But no. Once again he is behaving cowardly. And this time, it only raises already high suspicions that he and others in his administration are hiding some very dark secrets from the American people.
http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/04/03/con04091.html

President Bush may have declared major combat operations in Iraq over ten months ago, but fresh planeloads of wounded soldiers continue to fly into Andrews Air Force base every week, unseen by most Americans.
If the US government was to admit to the true human cost of Operation Iraqi Freedom, the wounded as well as the dead, then how many Americans would support George Bush and his war?
http://edition.cnn.com/2003/US/10/19/sick.reservists/

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Wounded and injured soldiers at Fort Stewart, Georgia, some of whom served in Iraq, are sometimes forced to wait months for follow-up treatment, according to several Army reservists.
http://edition.cnn.com/2003/US/10/19/sick.reservists/

Soldiers here estimate that nearly 40 percent of the personnel now in medical hold were deployed to Iraq. Of those who went, many described clusters of strange ailments, like heart and lung problems, among previously healthy troops. They said the Army has tried to refuse them benefits, claiming the injuries and illnesses were due to a "pre-existing condition," prior to military service.
Most soldiers in medical hold at Fort Stewart stay in rows of rectangular, gray, single-story cinder block barracks without bathrooms or air conditioning. They are dark and sweltering in the southern Georgia heat and humidity. Around 60 soldiers cram in the bunk beds in each barrack.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article4997.htm

States are relieved of responsibility for compensating U.S. citizens injured in international terrorism under the Patriot Act which gave law enforcement new surveillance powers after the Sept. 11 attacks. Texas, however, did not amend its law to exclude the benefit.
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/special_packages/iraq/8089608.htm

Saddam Hussein commented on Bush's actions soon after September 11.
Saddam said that Bush should first find out what had actually happened and WHO WAS BEHIND THE ATTACKS before going out to conquer the world.
"He should seek wisdom," said Saddam Hussein.

But he did not,
and it has been Code Orange in The Big Apple ever since.

[TrogL]

12. Where does it say they were over-loaded with fuel?

Why is it so strange that the flights were mostly empty? The airline industry has been screaming for ages that it's losing money because often scheduled runs are nearly empty.

The only people who can afford during-the-day business class flights are....important business people. Why would it be strange to find these people on the flight?