9/11 Research

[kalian]

http://911research.wtc7.net/

Way cool site.

[OudeVanDagen]

1. the posse is back

[Abe Linkman]

2. You have some objection to DUers researching 9-11?

What is it that bothers you? Why are you here, if not for the same reason we are? If your objective is to sell the Official Story version, why not just say so? Think of the advantages:

1.) You'd be the first one on record here at DU to acknowledge it.

2.) Your nessages would be taken more seriously.

3.) You wouldn't have to pretend who and what you support.

4.) You could interject some bigger ideas about why the public
should be more accepting of what we're told.

5.) You could simply state your points & never have to be "cute".

[plaguepuppy]

4. Never have to be "cute"

Awww, what fun would that be? Without his linquistic swirls of squid ink he actually would have to come out and say how he thinks the collapses happened, leaving him open to the same kind of scrutiny as anyone else. Much more effective to diffuse a faintly narcotic fog of technical and quasi-technical words like 'drift' 'fragmentation' and 'venting' with minimal supporting syntax to actually give them meaning, and defy the listener to guess what it means. Some classic OVD speak:

"The photo offered is an excellent example showing: a) fragmentation, the collapse sequence on top and the step that follows drift and venting, b) the different speeds in that collapse, where the sides are collapsing at different rates, c) venting, just before fragmentation, and d) lack of collapse uniformity causing debris fragments to be different sizes and a spire to appear. "


Do any of those phrases convey anything specific to this particular picture of the collapse: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=125&topic_id=8187#8255

(a picture that looks to the unprogrammed eye an awful lot like a huge explosion) as opposed to, say, any other picture of the collapses?

http://www.plaguepuppy.net/public_html/gallery/Explosions.htm

[OudeVanDagen]

6. your picture may be worth a thousand words

but none of your theories apply. Why won't you take some time and look into some other structural collapse incidents? You'll never understand WTC until you look at others.

[NecessaryOnslaught]

10. Another OVDelusion

1)OVD makes the claim that "each and every piece of wtc steel" is being examined by some unknown invesitgators at ground zero.

2)This claim is shown to be complete horseshit(as it has been many, many,many times before.

3)OVD then makes the statement "The Bottom Line is I know what I did .... what I saw .... what my colleages have done ... are still doing. Believe what you want ... time will tell ..."

What exactly did you see ovd? what have your colleages done? Im interested to hear about your mysterious work at ground zero.

[OudeVanDagen]

12. 1 & 3

just like the Budweiser commercial - TRUE.

What do you find so mysterious about photographing and logging columns, collateral framing members and fenestrations? It's SOP or technically speaking - protocol.

FACT: Within 24 hours of collapse television news pool cameras were erected and ran 24/7 for months. CNN, FOX - you name the network - all had live feeds and frequently showed viewers what was going on. Are you trying to tell me that no one saw the investigation process going on? Get real.

[OudeVanDagen]

5. researchers

I have no objection to research.

I do object to endless unsubstantiated claims that evidence was willfully destroyed. I do object to the unfounded claims that the investigation did not follow established protocols. I do object to the bizarre notion that the investigation is over. I do object to the suggestion that honest hardworking investigators and thousands of support people all looked the other way.

I do not support the 'official' theory - as it has been defined here. I also do not support CTs.

What I have done is offered numerous other collapse incidents so that readers can investigate them and apply that knowledge to the WTC events and come up with their OWN understanding.

I have also offered technical terms, and suggested using the Modulus Of Elasticity For World Trade Center Steel so that readers can understand the yield and shear points of the steel they talk about and come up with their OWN understanding.

I have also offered details of the collapse sequence as it happened. I have defined each event in that sequence.

I have never suggested the public should accept what it's been told. I have suggested that information is 'just a click away' and must be considered if a quest for an understanding of WTC is genuine.

Is offering an old, dusty, musty, rusty, out-of-touch, inflammatory but 'way cool' CT website topic really "research" - especially when there are scores of other independent research and investigation reports to choose from? I think not.

[DulceDecorum]

7. E + 2G(r=l)

where E is Young's modulus (psi), G is modulus of rigidity (psi) and r is Poisson's ratio. Modulus of elasticity also is called elastic modulus and coefficient of elasticity.

OudeVanDagen says:
"I have also offered technical terms, and suggested using the Modulus Of Elasticity For World Trade Center Steel so that readers can understand the yield and shear points of the steel they talk about and come up with their OWN understanding."

Modulus of Elasticity
The number which represents the relative "springness" of a given type of metal. All steels have the same modulus of elasticity or "springiness" regardless of the tensile or yield strengths. That is, until the yield point is reached they all stretch the same amount for a given load. Aluminum, on the other hand, is more elastic than steel and thus will stretch more than steel under the same loading.
http://www.weirton.com/glossary/M.html
The steel in question
would be that used in the construction of the WTC
and it differs from other
steel yield and shear points,
HOW?

modulus of elasticity - (physics) the ratio of the applied stress to the change in shape of an elastic body.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/modulus%20of%20elasticity
I would say that the stress applied to the WTC
was most certainly enough to change its shape.

OudeVanDagen,
you have suggested that information is 'just a click away.'
Some of us have been clicking away for weeks and STILL do not know what you meant when you used the term "elastomer" in reference to the WTC towers.
And as for the term "elastomeric temperature"
which you used in reference to the WTC steel,
even YOU YOURSELF
have completely failed to define it.

Sometimes I do not think that you really know or properly understand the matters which are being discussed on this forum.
I am NOT attacking you.
Nobody here really truly knows what happened on that day,
and nobody here really truly understands exactly what brought those buildings down. However, many here are trying to clarify, not confuse.
It is frequently unclear what exactly your intent is.
I am simply making an observation based on your posts.
Allow me to elucidate, using this statement
"I do object to the unfounded claims that the investigation did not follow established protocols."
No established protocols were followed,
(and most especially in the case of Building 7 and the others which were NEVER hit by aircraft)
and the proof of that is only a click away.

[OudeVanDagen]

8. never

did I use the term "elastomer" and I certainly have defined elastomeric temperature - a term that appears in many collapse investigation reports, obviously none of which you have ever read.

I can also assure you that protocols were followed - a civilized society demands an investigation as to what happened and how to prevent it. Any investigation requires protocols - an outline, SOP, or guideline to rule out causes. Protocols are obvious in every report of prior structural collapses, in every report since, and are constantly asked about in the civil suits that follow.

There is a structural collapse somewhere in the world each day. Every collapse is fully investigated by several teams of investigators; one team hired by the owner, one retained by insurance, one retained by the city and so on. How can an investigation be conducted without rules, steps, SOPs, guidelines - or something investigators call protocol?

If NO established protocols were in place and/or followed at WTC there would be NO reports - BUT there are mountains of reports on WTC. How did the engineers and investigation teams come to writing their reports without protocols?

[plaguepuppy]

3. Who you calling a posse sir?

OK boys, heat up the tar and feathers...


Or as Wallace Stevens once wrote (O Florida, Venereal Soil):

Swiftly in the nights,
In the porches of Key West,
Behind the bougainvilleas,
After the guitar is asleep,
Lasciviously as the wind,
You come tormenting,
Insatiable,

When you might sit,
A scholar of darkness,
Sequestered over the sea,
Wearing a clear tiara
Of red and blue and red,
Sparkling, solitary, still,
In the high sea-shadow.


Hasta la matate, Dear Ovum von Dragonsblood, and God's mercy onus all.

Pup

[Dancing_Dave]

9. Yes, 911 Research is great!

Gee, it didn't take much for OVD to change the subject away from the 911 Research site...where you can find some of the truth that he doesn't want you to know! Or should I say, some of the truth his employers don't want you to know?

I saw a headline "Dutch CIA asset changes sides, admits CIA infiltration of the web". But unfortunately, it wasn't OVD.

[Abe Linkman]

11. DDave - how do you know it isn't the same Dutchman?

Or, one of the other "usual suspects" (as Dulce refers to them).

Might be just one person. You know, a kind of "Four Faces of Eddie".
Several do seem to have similar styles.

[OudeVanDagen]

13. truth

is Dancing Dave that I really, really "want you to know" and have tried to steer you towards information that will help you to understand WTC - but you'd rather ride wit da posse.