Hartmann: Did Brewster-Jennings stop shipment of VX gas in Turkey?

[thereismore]

I heard this on Thom Hartmann today. He said * was mad at Valerie Plame because the CIA front company stopped a shipment of VX gas into Iraq in Turkey. VX was to be planted in Iraq and "discovered" by US troops.

Is there any corroboration of this? Have you heard of this?

[Cassandra]

1. Wouldn't really surprise me.

We were wondering if they would try to plant something and were also wondering if Brewster Jennings was being targeted specifically and why. This theory sounds good so far.

[Blue Meany]

11. Well, the timing makes since...

The Bushies were making a lot of noise about undeclared VX Gas between September 2002 and December 2002. Also, in December, the White House was claiming that VX Gas may have been smuggled out of Iraq to be used in Europe or the US. Thus they could have "found" it in Turkey and claimed it was being exported, much as the Reagan Administration fabricated evidence of Nicaragua exporting arms to El Salvador.

[thereismore]

16. You're right. That makes sense too. But where is the VX gas now?

Any guesses?

[The Doctor.]

24. There's another potential bomb right there...

Figuratively/Literally/Politically

:nuke:

Someone knows, and that information is worth many lives.

If this hypothetical bust occurred, then that means there is a record of it and witnesses who are tied to it. Then there is someone who knows exactly where it would wind up afterward. Destroyed? Committed to evidence? Sold to the highest bidder?

If this bust occurred, there would also be apprehension of the perps... either that or really good dossiers.

Either way, the people involved are known and the Gas is somewhere... if it exists, that is.

Figure out who the people in the best places to know were, see if you can figure out what they are doing now, and you might catch a lead.

[Ouabache]

53. Probably in western Indiana

Newburgh(or Newport) is a storage facility for it, and supposedly it is in the process of being destroyed. This has been in 'progress' ever since 1998 or so. Studies first to determine how to destroy it. Then there have been delays. It is some kind of burn being conducted to destroy it. I know it wasn't all destroyed even as of this year, so that could have been a source point for a shipment of it.

[ourbluenation]

2. Wow...I hadn't heard this at all. Hartmann usually doesn't go out on a

limb like that without having some back up. Jesus...this could get interesting.

[punpirate]

3. He also said that he usually attempts...

... to double- or triple-source such stories, but could not, and offered it with the advisory that it was unsubstantiated by other sources.

[lostnfound]

20. Glad to hear that because I respect him and was starting to wonder

if I would have to run his stuff through more 'mental filters' than I previously would have.

Not to say that Madsen etc aren't worthwhile, but the degree of certainty varies. If something comes out on DemocracyNow! it's as good as gold, it is definitely prove-able. If something comes out on Madsen site, it may well be true but very often cannot be proven. Was starting to wonder where Hartmann falls, after this story.

Gosh I hope it is prove-able and becomes proven!! What a dramatic story that would be on the 6 o'clock news.

[radio4progressives]

4. Yes.. Wayne Madsen posted this information on his website..

And it explains EVERYTHING..

November 11, 2005 -- New aspect of Valerie Plame/Brewster Jennings exposure revealed. According to U.S. intelligence sources, the White House exposure of Valerie Plame and her Brewster Jennings & Associates was intended to retaliate against the CIA's work in limiting the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction. WMR has reported in the past on this aspect of the scandal.

In addition to identifying the involvement of individuals in the White House who were close to key players in nuclear proliferation, the CIA Counter-Proliferation Division prevented the shipment of binary VX nerve gas from Turkey into Iraq in November 2002.

The Brewster Jennings network in Turkey was able to intercept this shipment which was intended to be hidden in Iraq and later used as evidence that Saddam Hussein was in possession of weapons of mass destruction. U.S. intelligence sources revealed that this was a major reason the Bush White House targeted Plame and her network

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=post&forum=132&topic_id=2249751&mesg_id=2249751

[babylonsister]

9. How 'bout Russians and nuclear materials? Searching google,

this popped up, also primarily from Wayne Madsen FWIW:

http://www.freezerbox.com/archive/blog.php?id=142


snip//

In other words, Libby, if not Cheney except for guilt by association, was after Brewster Jennings, the dummy corporation the CIA had set up to interrupt the flow of black market nuclear weapons. As usual with the invaluable Madsen, his piece is almost encrypted. Here's my attempt to render his report intelligible to others besides intelligence:

Libby was once the lawyer for Marc Rich, the Swiss-based American fugitive, who, you'll remember, was pardoned by President Clinton. Rich, whose links to Israel are splashed all over the Internet, became enmeshed with Russian and Ukrainian organized crime figures who escaped to Israel to avoid prosecution, according to a CIA source of Madsen.

Russians with access to nuclear materials sold same to the crime figures, who, in turn, retailed them to the A.Q. Khan network in Pakistan and other WMD smuggling operations. To remove these materials from circulation, Brewster Jennings, in a CIA Directorate of Operations Counter Proliferation Division operation, bought them at this "nuclear used car market," as one CIA source put it. In the late 1990s, according to Madsen, black-market high-grade plutonium was being sold in buckets from warehouses.

Thus did the Russian crime figures, Rich, and Libby find themselves pitted against Brewster Jennings. Then a well-known neocon affiliated with a Washington think tank received classified information about Brewster Jennings from someone within the Department of Defense and passed it on to forces within Israel, who relayed it to the Russian crime figures.

Some of this information was contained in documents passed to the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) and the Israelis by indicted former Defense Department analyst Larry Franklin.

snip//

[radio4progressives]

32. these are the players that are tied up with the Niger forgeries.. n/t

[RazzleDazzle]

21. Bad link

this goes to a reply message box, not the thread. Can you correct?

[Monkey see Monkey Do]

52. But Wayne Madsen isn't exactly the most credible of people is he.

[Nite Owl]

5. It makes sense

like it's all another piece of the puzzle. He was just the excuse for outing her, she was the target the whole time.

[thereismore]

7. Outing her sounded like such an indirect way to punish Wilson.

This actually makes more sense. Where is that gas now? Shit, if this story gets substantiated...

[me b zola]

50. I have been believing that she was THE target for a little while now

It all lines up with the administration's "ways & means".

[seafan]

6. Sounds very plausible to me.

When the Bush cabal figured out that they weren't going to find any WMD's in their stampede into Iraq, they could have planned to smuggle some in, put Judy Miller in place to *witness the discovery* and then the Connecticut Cowboy would have his *war president hero*-type image on the aluminum tube in America's living rooms.

Now, if Valerie Plame, operating under the cover of Brewster-Jennings, intercepted and stopped the movement of WMD's into Iraq, no wonder * got ticked off. There just went his whole war hero enchilada plans.

* thrives on absolute adoration. When some *upstart* CIA agent thwarts what he wants, he will react with vengeance. That's exactly what we've seen.

It would also explain BushCo's strange overreaction to Joe Wilson's editorial, by then vindictively outing his deep cover agent wife.

Yes, this sounds VERY plausible. Hope we can get confirmation of Hartmann's info.

[radio4progressives]

18. Here's another interesting thing about Miller

I hate to admit this but the other night, I was listening to this really stupid radio program on NPR called "Wait Wait Don't Tell Me" ... i think most people are somewhat familiar with this thing (?) they do a game on "current events" and during a question/answer segue - (it turns out that Miller used to do NPR) they played an audio recording of Miller making the case for the 'Secrecy Act' that was being debated and pushed through congress in the late '70's (i think after the Phillip Agee exposure)!

(I'm sorry I don't have at my fingertips the specific legislation name and title)

The more I learn about Judith Miller, the more is revealed that she was at the least a CIA ASSET if not a Paid Operative.

No red blooded American Journalists would be about making a case to further restrict transparency of government officials (and it's agencies)and they sure the hell wouldn't be making the case to further the cause of secrecy in the CIA, without actually WORKING FOR THEM.

I'm straight up asserting that Judith Miller was and has been a CIA AGENT using the NYT not only as her cover, but as the conduit for CIA propaganda .

Infiltrating the Media is exactly what the agency has been doing at least since the mid sixties (Ramparts being the most notorious)which has been revealed many many times throughout the past thirty five years. Carl Bernstein did a huge expose on the fact that the NYT and other papers were infiltrated with agents. This article was published in Rolling Stone back in 1977 or '78 i think.

Now, it's no question that cable news is simply a mouthpiece for the GOP - and that the papers of record have been acting like mouthpieces for the GOP.

Whether or not they owners or the senior editors are is for someone else to prove.

[seafan]

19. Miller is likely an operative of some sort, I agree.

And I don't think she's seen the worst of her troubles yet.

[mmonk]

22. Or miltary intel or OSP. That would fit more ideologically.

CIA isn't supposed to be political though, no doubt it probably is now.

[radio4progressives]

31. It isn't supposed to be political but it has been since JFK years n/t

[bbgrunt]

25. and then the logical conclusion is that NYT Keller and

Sultzberg are also CIA assets.

[radio4progressives]

28. Well Saltzberg is at least a Willing Asset..

and other Media operatives as well.

Look I didn't mean to get this Brewster Jennings story side tracked down this alley - just a side note about Miller.

[mopinko]

26. hey, wait wait is a GOOD radio show.

produced here at good ole wbez. it is very funny, and makes a lot good bush jokes. so there.

[radio4progressives]

29. ok well, to each their own and I do admit i had a few laughs ..

sorry, no offense meant. I have had to turn that off on a number of occasions in the past and hadn't listened to it in a long time...

the other night it was funny.

[mopinko]

35. it started off slow

the first year or so, it was pretty bad. we called it wait, wait don't bore me. but they found their groove. i think it is very funny.

[peacetalksforall]

40. Nah - too much emphasis on George. I think of him as the tv part of the

show. The real operation is with Cheney and Rumsfeld. Always try to out-think their outrageous agenda on all its levels and don't waste time on George. We know he is obsessed with loyalty and revenge, if betrayed. He is a simple character and way too transparent - too irrelevant. Concentrate on Cheney and Rummy.

Cheney is the liaison with Khan, imo.

[AlCzervik]

8. i heard him talk about that today too, did he ever say where he

got that? I heard him say the source wasn't 100% reliable, course what source is really?

[MidwestTransplant]

10. Maybe I am skeptical but wouldn't it have just been easier

to somehow get the name Brewster Jennings affiliation with the CIA into the media in some way without this setup?

[PRETZEL]

39. I think it would have been easier but,

that would have made the case for indictments under the Espionage Act and the Intelligence Identities Protection Act so much easier to prosecute under.

By connecting Valerie Plame to Valerie Wilson through her husband makes the outing of Brewster-Jennings seem like basic journalistic research. In the original article by Novak I don't believe he mentions B-J but that only Ms. Plame works for the CIA. It wouldn't take long to connect Ms. Plame to Brewster-Jennings, in fact she made it known she worked for them (but this was prior to her outing) so it wouldn't then be hard to figure out that Brewster-Jennings was in fact a CIA front company. It gets the job done without actually having your fingers on it.

[Norquist Nemesis]

41. Odd you mention the Espionage Act

John Dean was on KO last night talking about the Libby indictment. Dean thinks that Fitzgerald's target is Cheney and that he may very well be looking at Espionage.

[PRETZEL]

42. you're right saw that also,

Dean's been floating that scenario ever since the indictment came down. Who knows, he may be right.

[seemslikeadream]

12. When was Judy Miller in Iraq?

VX was to be planted in Iraq and "discovered" by US troops AND Judy Miller

[thereismore]

14. She was there April/May 2003. The shipment was allegedly stopped

in late 2002. That would put her in a position to "discover" the warheads.

[shance]

13. If it were true, wouldn't that explain just about all of it

in the motivation department.

[thereismore]

15. Yes, I heard a loud click in my head. This sort of thing (planting weapons

is so serious that a woman might prefer to sit in jail for 3 months and come out only after she was sure that Fitzgerald is only going after Libby who will take the fall and all will be well. This information being provided by a co-conspirator Bolton, possibly? This is serious, serious stuff.

[Rockholm]

17. Kick and Nominated.

[The Doctor.]

23. Interesting...

Though I would believe that if the administration wanted to dissolve BJ&A, they would likely have done it to prevent interference rather than retaliate after the fact.
It would be a mistake to outright eliminate an asset after that asset has achieved a high-profile success. (High-profile in the intelligence community, that is...)

I couldn't imagine the kind of ammunition these people are dealing with. Therefore I cannot imagine the intricacies of a 'Mexican Stand-Off' that would stifle this info.

But I did speculate that Saddam would never have such weapons in-country under the threat of imminent invasion. Which would mean we'd have to plant something big.

I honestly don't have a single intuitive gurgle as to whether this is a credible assertion.

Looking into it now...

So far;

Apparently one of the assertions made by the administration was that an Iraq-based al-Qaeda group acquired VX Gas smuggled via Turkey. Analysts see no evidence.

U.S. Suspects Al Qaeda Got Nerve Agent From Iraqis
Analysts: Chemical May Be VX, And Was Smuggled Via Turkey

By Barton Gellman
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, December 12, 2002; Page A01
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A42876-2002Dec11?language=printer

The Bush administration has received a credible report that Islamic extremists affiliated with al Qaeda took possession of a chemical weapon in Iraq last month or late in October, according to two officials with firsthand knowledge of the report and its source. They said government analysts suspect that the transaction involved the nerve agent VX and that a courier managed to smuggle it overland through Turkey.

If the report proves true, the transaction marks two significant milestones. It would be the first known acquisition of a nonconventional weapon other than cyanide by al Qaeda or a member of its network. It also would be the most concrete evidence to support the charge, aired for months by President Bush and his advisers, that al Qaeda terrorists receive material assistance in Iraq. If advanced publicly by the White House, the report could be used to rebut Iraq's assertion in a 12,000-page declaration Saturday that it had destroyed its entire stock of chemical weapons.

On the central question whether Iraqi President Saddam Hussein knew about or authorized such a transaction, U.S. analysts are said to have no evidence. Because Hussein's handpicked Special Security Organization, run by his son Qusay, has long exerted tight control over concealed weapons programs, officials said they presume it would be difficult to transfer a chemical agent without the president's knowledge.
more...

http://nucnews.net/nucnews/2002nn/0212nn/021212nn.htm
(Lots o' stuff at link)

[agincourt]

27. That's why Porter Goss was placed in charge,

to prevent any credible corroboration. This gets old after awhile, finding only real news on DU.

[radio4progressives]

30. I think the news rooms have this story...

I was watching tweety bird tonight for a few minutes talking to the guy from National Review - they were discussing the CIA Leak and WMD's question - and in a very cryptic manner aluded to the question of what could have happened to WMD's.

I think they have this story, but they're not going to talk about it directly on the air, unless something very hard comes up in investigations. This story is also making it's way around the internet . obviously it was Thomm Hartman and it ended up here.

So we'll see where the story goes.

[ngGale]

33. This whole story makes sense...

it mentions all the right people (aka, players).

[eridani]

34. I would feel better about this--

--if it were on some site other than Wayne Madsden's. Ritter has always said that chemical weapons could be accurately dated by forensic analysis, and that this would make planting schemes unlikely.

[jn2375]

36. Bush was after Brewster Jennings and used Wilson for cover

I came to that conclusion last week!!!!!

[peacetalksforall]

37. I can't forget what was posted on a thread nearly two years ago -

corporate employees waiting in Kuwait to move in and plant the much needed political wmds that were just sitting.

[peacetalksforall]

38. Finally, we'll get some talk out there about the real reason for the

smear job.

In some ways we're lucky. The public kinda understood the smear and exposure of an undercover agent - it's equivalent to a part of a movie that moves fast, but is easy to understand - they may also 'get' planted wmds.

[JunkYardDogg]

43. Brewster Jennings was also investigating Saudi support of Al-Quada

One of the reasons the BushReich outed Valerie Plame was to protect their Saudi Buddies.
The BushReich probably didn't even know about Brewster Jennings 'till they got the research on Joe Wilson.
When they found out about the existence of Brewster Jennings,
it became a no-brainer-
Their first and foremost allegiance and obligation is to protect the Saudis.
If they knew about Brewster Jennings prior to Joe Wilson's trip, the
BushReich would have been on the ass in a New York minute.

[JunkYardDogg]

44. Brewster Jennings was also investigating Saudi support of Al-Quada

One of the reasons the BushReich outed Valerie Plame was to protect their Saudi Buddies.
The BushReich probably didn't even know about Brewster Jennings 'till they got the research on Joe Wilson.
When they found out about the existence of Brewster Jennings,
it became a no-brainer-
Their first and foremost allegiance and obligation is to protect the Saudis.
If they knew about Brewster Jennings prior to Joe Wilson's trip, the
BushReich would have been on the ass in a New York minute.

[loudsue]

45. This ties in with the investigations on the PLAME Threads, done on DU

about a year ago. It became obvious to a lot of the followers of those threads (research) that Brewster/Jennings was a likely target of the "outing", not just Valerie Plame.

I'm wondering if some of this didn't find its way into the Fitzgerald investigation, and if that may be why so many of the pages the court reviewed in the Judith Miller case might have been "blacked-out" from the eyes of the media....since it was such a sensitive security issue. IOW, I wonder if Fitz doesn't already KNOW about this.

:kick::kick::kick::kick:

[PRETZEL]

46. i think it has to, but only to a degree

I think Fitzgerald has to make the connection that Brewster-Jennings was a covert CIA front company and that it was known to the people who leaked her identity. Beyond that I don't think Fitzgerald will delve into what B-J was working on.

[jn2375]

47. keep kicked

[HysteryDiagnosis]

48. Kicking and liking where this may lead..... nt.

[Emit]

49. Seems most of the dicussions about this can be traced back to Madsen

He seems to be the original source of this news, and has an update on the subject.

http://www.waynemadsenreport.com/

[omega minimo]

51. Verboten to discuss this in GDP?

Is this crucial or :tinfoilhat:?

[StrafingMoose]

54. What?

This was in GD and was sent in "Sept 11" forum? Oh god... :eyes:

[hack89]

55. Skinner doesn't want DU tabbed as a conspiracy site..

it undermines it's credibility,