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delver Donating Member (70 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-02-05 02:21 PM
Original message
We have a million smoking guns--WAKE THE FUCK UP
Edited on Thu Jun-02-05 02:41 PM by delver
The list of evidence is damning. The lies and the cover up are blatant as all hell. DO NOT continue wasting your time looking for that one tidbit that's going to break the case wide open. If you are still pondering the evidence and trying to make up your mind about LIHOP, MIHOP or whatever-the-fuck HOP, you are also wasting time. What is important to you? Convincing yourself and feeling that you know exactly how it happened or trying to SAVE OUR COUNTRY AND THE WORLD.

The research work has been done valiantly and amazingly. People like Mike Ruppert, Paul Thompson, Thierry Meyssan, David Ray Griffin have compiled the evidence. It is now up to us to use all these facts to actually effect an evolution in consciousness. If you want to know about flight 93 or how the towers collapsed trying going to a more direct source like COOPERATIVERESEARCH.ORG or THE NEW PEARL HARBOR. Don't waste time on this board arguing about evidence specifics, you'll just be getting someone's secondhand opinion who may or may not have actually read one of the reliable primary compilations of evidence.

I would argue that we wouldn't lose anything if everyone in the 9/11 movement turned their attention away from evidence, details and specifics and instead toward public and media outreach.

The key to a conspiracy such as 9/11, JFK, RFK is that the people who don't believe the official story get bogged down in their own details. They start tripping over themselves about the minutest little analysis and evidence. I saw a JFK assasination conference on CSPAN a few months and each person had their own little specialization of analyzing one tiny aspect of evidence. But look where that movement got us--40 years later and no official recognition for all the obvious lies. Instead you have PBS and Nova doing a special saying Oswald was the lone gunman.

If the 9/11 movement is to have any effect, we need to start thinking a little bigger. What about a 9/11 march or protesting in front of media outlets...what about getting the word out...what about DEMOCRACY?



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spooked911 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-02-05 03:27 PM
Response to Original message
1. Well, yeah. We've had a few threads here discussing how to publicize 9/11
We've had a few threads here discussing how to publicize 9/11 truth/skepticism.

Are you going to organize a march or protest? What should the main message be? Just that there is a cover-up? That the government is lying? How do you get past the idea that many people will think you're crazy for thinking the government would attack it's own citizens?

I'm all for doing something. But we have to have a good plan.
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staticstopper Donating Member (314 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-02-05 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. How about a readable blog on the
Edited on Thu Jun-02-05 06:35 PM by staticstopper
Reichstag Fire? How it was investigated, the history and
how the evidence stacks up.

Regular everyday Democrats seem to be waking up to
the seemingly "fascist" ways, so this could be a
good time to make some compare and contrast points.

How do you get past the idea that many people will think you're crazy for thinking the government would attack it's own citizens?

That is the nub of this whole problem, right there,
I think. America is still above average for living
conditions so that's a hard concept to sell.

When I come to 100% on LIHOP and can get over
my whole "I would never belong to a club that would have me
as a member" sort of bad self-esteem problem...why I'm a crappy activist, then I will do more, but until then...

It is ok to talk about it with close friends and
inside this warm cocoon of the internet, but the
though of walking the streets with signs makes me cringe.


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spooked911 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-02-05 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Good points. The Reichstag fire blog would be cool, though I don't know
how far one could go with it-- maybe just a website is needed, though there are those already.

Again, the hard part is communicating to the public what we think. While I am 99% convinced 9/11 was MIHOP, I would have a hard time going public with that. So we need a good media plan, and no one here has agreed on what to do.

But in fact, there are plenty of good websites that are actually devoted to 9/11 activism--
http://www.911citizenswatch.org/
http://www.911truth.org/
http://www.911truthla.us/
http://reopen911.org/
http://ny911truth.org/
Probably it would be better to work with one of those groups or at least find out how they present things.

So, ultimately, I don't think this board is really a great place for organizing 9/11 activism. But it is a great place for learning about 9/11 and doing research. And I happen to think working out some of the details of 9/11 is useful. If nothing else, it makes you better informed about what happened, the improbabilities and contradictions in the official story and the weakest parts of the story-- and thus one is better armed to confront people who believe the official story.
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DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-05 08:59 AM
Response to Reply #3
41. Why don't you use demopedia
I've been updating it for a couple of weeks now. There aren't that many people looking in there yet, but it has a high ranking in the search engines (very important), all the member of this board can use it who have registered since Dec 2004 (and that's also important since it means that the chance of vandalism is very small) and it will give you some time to put two and two together.

Right now the 9/11 part is very limited and it could use some updating
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Dancing_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-03-05 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. People in New York have walked the streets for 9/11 Truth.
And now the rest of us should do it too! :nopity:
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staticstopper Donating Member (314 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-03-05 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #5
15. yep, never pays to be honest
but, some people don't have the fortitude to handle
getting the shit kicked out of them by brownshirts...
some ppl, in certain areas, get hassled for just
having a Kerry bumper stickers on their car.

Must be great to live in a blue state with
William Wallace-like bravery. :eyes:
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meppie-meppie not Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-03-05 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #1
11. the message should be that the cover-up has to stop, a REAL
investigation must happen and people have to be held accountable and that means putting those on trial for their treasonous acts.
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spooked911 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-03-05 11:51 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. What if people say that has been done already with the 9/11 commission?
How do you rebut that?
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meppie-meppie not Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-04-05 12:38 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. I get that alot and I just start asking the most salient questions.
- like how come the 93 took so long before they hijacked the plane?
- how come they had no foreknowledge of potential hijacking schemes before the event but within hours of it every media outlet was flashing names/pictures and backgrounds of the 19?
- where is the physical evidence of any of the hijackers since a passport is said to have survived intact?
- how could a notoriously bad pilot fly a plane parallel to the ground and only inches away into the Pentagon?
- how is it that the WH and Pentagon were without air defense? If it's negligence as they portend, than why has no one been demoted or sacked? Why have people instead been promoted? Is it because they were following as instructed?

this is just a start...I've even talked about the "pancake theory" that defies gravity...drop a lead ball from a stair case that will pass through several interspersed layers of thin tissue paper...compare that to the drop rate of the same without...the paper provides resistance...(we did this just to test out free fall vs otherwise..just for the hell of it)
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meppie-meppie not Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-04-05 12:45 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. another thing
give me an investigation where those investigating are without conflicts of interest and we can start to get to the truth. The 9/11 commission was compromised from the get go starting with the WH operative who put the panel together and decided what would be permitted for investigation and what would not. Ergo anything that pointed to the WH was a no go. How can you get to the truth when they were in essence investigating themselves?
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hang a left Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-05 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #16
22. I think that a good way to rebut the 9-11 Omission Report is by
giving people the list of questions that were presented by the families of the victims that are still unanswered. Let people know that it is the victims' families that demanded the investigation and that their issues were not addressed.
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DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-05 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #22
42. Rebuting the 9/11 Report is very easy
You need the simple math story from Elias Davidsson

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=125&topic_id=38560

And if you think that 12 / 22 points are not enough then we have:

http://www.911citizenswatch.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=551&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0

Which consists of 115 lies/omission in the official report.

From a mathematical point of view the whole report is therefore invalid beyond any reasonable doubt and beyond any statistical anomaly. It's even far better than the TIA proofs. This is at least 0.5^115.

So we have proven the report invalid. Next what needs to be done - and some people have already done that, but not in a detailed manner - is to proof LIHOP beyond any reasonable doubt and any statistical anomalies. MIHOP is not that important, since if we have LIHOP, which is much easier than we have proven 9/11 and it does not require a detailed alternative reading, because that's not going to be possible.
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demodewd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-03-05 12:15 AM
Response to Original message
4. Hufschmidt
How about Painful Questionsby Eric Hufschmidt? This book should be on everybody's living room coffee table. Its an easy read and has excellent photographs and diagrams of which most of it I tend to agree with.

I found a web site where you can get one for free.
http://www.freegiftworld.com/gift.html?nopop=1&ADTGID=87741&xid=0&CID=39216&KWID=Painful%20Questions&SID=KE3331713
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meppie-meppie not Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-03-05 11:14 PM
Response to Reply #4
12. damn I can't get it because I live in Canada
:(
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philb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-03-05 12:44 AM
Response to Original message
6. The case for complicity by officials is solid so next step is to make it t
Edited on Fri Jun-03-05 12:48 AM by philb
to more people, a wider audience.


I think its obvious there is solid documentation of complicity by White House, Pentagon and military officials.

This being the case, it would seem to be more productive to pursue the case thats already solid and do a real investigation including questioning of those with known contradictory testimony, the apparently guilty parties, get indictments and/or impeachments; and likely find out from those parties the details of how the physical effects were carried out.

http://www.flcv.com/offcompl.html

and Dr. Griffin's books

So the first step is publicize the very solid case that has been made of official complicity and make more people aware. The case is so strong that its easy to demonstrate to most who can be convinced to look at a little evidence.

Evidence such as the following needs to be further discussed, firmed up if there are any problematic details, and more people need to be made aware of the evidence- such as contradictory testimony to the 9/11 Commission.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=125x41194

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staticstopper Donating Member (314 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-03-05 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. your post reminded me of a good quote
Edited on Fri Jun-03-05 02:13 PM by staticstopper
from xmpor...

"Rather than being a victory for journalism, Watergate was the start of the systematic corruption of the disgusting American media, which continues to do its job in hiding the fact that the United States has been a military dictatorship since November 22, 1963."

911 is the sort of thing that will continue to happen (of course
having a huge propaganda tool - one that has an unwarranted
rep for "uncovering scandals" - helps) when we let powerful ppl who were trained to kill run the show.

And I'm sooo sick about reading all the bat-s**t crazy things the CIA does - how do you vote out those guys???





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dbeach Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-03-05 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. First coup d'eatat was 11/22/63
folowed by BK, MLK,..VN ,..JFK JR,11/00,Wellstone{after a witnessed arguement and threat by cheny}11/02/04 ...all designed to cover the crime of JFKs murder

Its a crime of the spirit that more don't see JFK murder for what it was a nazi controlled 'slaying of the king'.

Operation Paperclip allowed the nazis into the Intell agencies which became corrupted by them.

Prescott Bush was a nazi agent..

Now then it gets tricky and worse cuz the nazis, commies ,busheviks.,.neo-cons and globalists merge with zionists for complete control of the USA

The USA is still trapped in a time warp called 11/22/63 and the murder in Dallas Texas.
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meppie-meppie not Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-03-05 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. respectfully, I think you have to take a step back from
Karl Schwartz. He has some very good things to say in his book but some things I really think have to be taken with a grain of salt, maybe even a bushel at times.
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Tim Howells Donating Member (224 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-03-05 01:37 AM
Response to Original message
7. I Agree, but now what?
I have been thinking about this for a long time. With the
John F. Kennedy assassination we long ago reached the point,
according to Gallup where about 88% of those with an opinion
believe there was a conspiracy and a coverup. We just cannot
force the government to come clean and confess their crimes.
Actually in the Kennedy case the government did finally with
great agony and turmoil grind out a tortured report admitting
that there "probably" was a conspiracy (but no coverup). There
will always be a need for more and better research and understanding,
but what do we DO with it when all is said and done?

Tim Howells
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meppie-meppie not Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-03-05 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #7
14. when did they come out and say it was "probably" a cover up?
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Tim Howells Donating Member (224 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-05 06:30 AM
Response to Reply #14
19. The HSCA report
The House Select Committee on Assassinations said in their
final report that the JFK assassination was probably the
result of a conspiracy, but they couched their findings in
such a way that there was no accusation of a coverup.

Tim
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philb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-03-05 11:05 PM
Response to Original message
10. But there is a huge coverup; even judges are involved
From Christopher's site:
Judge rules that testimony offFirefighters who were at the WTC site and heard and saw explosions was just opinion and not of value.
So what was of value?


This statement gains veracity when we realize that court officials will not support the truth in a wrongful death civil lawsuit by family members following 9-11. That statement is proven here where plaintiffs are deprived of the right to produce witness when the courts won't allow Firefighter testimony and that of Law enforcement. Their testimony was deemed "opinion".

http://www.courts.state.ny.us/reporter/3dseries/2004/2004_00091.htm

More recently, 3/24/05, transcripts of callers were not allowed.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/03/24/sept11.tapes/index.html

The appeals court disagreed with families whose attorneys argued in a hearing last month in Albany that public interest outweighed privacy protection of those who died in the attacks.


The private tapes of what happened at the Pentagon are also being suppressed by judges.


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vincent_vega_lives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-05 02:36 PM
Response to Original message
20. What about FACTS?
Edited on Tue Jun-07-05 02:36 PM by vincent_vega_lives
The problem is I have not seen ANY in support of a conspiracy. And before you say I haven't looked...I have been around since the beginning.

And all the "evidence" against Oswald being the lone gunman is flawed.
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delver Donating Member (70 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-05 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. good night
http://uscrisis.lege.net/911/williambunch/williambunch.txt |

1. What did National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice tell
| President Bush about al Qaeda threats against the United
| States in a still-secret briefing on Aug. 6, 2001?
|
| Rice has suggested in vague terms that the president's brief
| - prepared daily by the CIA - included information that
| morning about Osama bin Laden's methods of operation -
| including hijacking. But when the congressional committee
| probing Sept. 11 asked to see the report, Bush claimed
| executive privilege and refused to release it.
|
| 2. Why did Attorney General John Ashcroft and some Pentagon
| officials cancel commercial-airline trips before Sept. 11?
|
| On July 26, 2001 - 47 days before the Sept. 11 attacks - CBS
| News reported that Ashcroft was flying expensive charters
| rather than commercial flights because of a "threat
| assessment" by the FBI. CBS said, "Ashcroft has been advised
| to travel only by private jet for the remainder of his
| term." Newsweek later reported that on Sept. 10, 2001, "a
| group of top Pentagon officials suddenly canceled travel
| plans for the next morning, apparently because of security
| concerns."
|
| Did either Ashcroft or the Pentagon have advance information
| about a 9/11-style attack and, if so, why wasn't this shared
| with the American public?
|
| 3. Who made a small fortune "shorting" airline and insurance
| stocks before Sept. 11?
|
| On Sept. 10, 2001, the trading ratio on United Airlines was
| 25 times greater than normal at the Pacific Exchange, where
| traders could buy "puts," high-risk bets that the price of a
| company's stock will fall sharply. The next day, two
| hijacked United jetliners crashed, causing the company's
| shares to plummet and ultimately leading the airline into
| bankruptcy. CBS News later reported that at intelligence
| agencies, "alarm bells were sounding over unusual trading in
| the U.S. stock options market" on the day before the
| attacks.
|
| The unusual stock trading suggests that someone with a
| sophisticated knowledge of finance also had advance
| information about the impending attack. But two years later,
| no one has been charged in this matter, and officials have
| not indicated even if the probe is still open.
|
| 4. Are all 19 people identified by the government as
| participants in the Sept. 11 attacks really the hijackers?
|
| Probably not. Just 10 days after the attacks, a report by
| the British Broadcasting Corp. said that some of the
| supposed hijackers identified by the FBI appeared to be
| alive and well. The BBC story said Abdelaziz al-Omari, named
| as the pilot who crashed the jet into the World Trade
| Center's North Tower, was reported by Saudi authorities to
| be working as an electrical engineer. He reported his
| passport had been stolen in Denver in 1995. Saudi officials
| said it was possible that another three people whose names
| appear on the FBI list also are alive.
|
| The article, which can be read at Unanswered Questions,
| makes a persuasive case that another man was posing as Ziad
| Jarrah, the alleged pilot of hijacked Flight 93, which
| crashed in Shanksville, Pa. So why did this story line
| vanish into thin air?
|
| 5. Did any of the hijackers smuggle guns on board as
| reported in calls from both Flight 11 and Flight 93?
|
| Quite possibly. An internal Federal Aviation Administration
| memo written at 5:30 p.m. on the day of the attacks said
| that a passenger aboard American Airlines Flight 11 -
| Israeli-American Daniel Lewin - had been shot to death by a
| single bullet before the jet slammed into the North Tower of
| the World Trade Center. The FAA insists the memo was a
| mistaken "first draft," even though the alleged shooting is
| described in great detail.
|
| Aboard Flight 93, passenger Thomas Burnett told his wife,
| Deena, in a 9:27 a.m. cell-phone call: "The hijackers have
| already knifed a guy, one of them has a gun, and they are
| telling us there is a bomb on board."
|
| Why has this angle of Sept. 11 not been investigated in more
| detail?
|
| 6. Why did the NORAD air defense network fail to intercept
| the four hijacked jets?
|
| During the depths of the Cold War, Americans went to bed
| with the somewhat reassuring belief that jet fighters would
| intercept anyone launching a first strike against the United
| States. That myth was shattered on 9/11, when four
| hijacked-jetliners-turned-into-deadly-missiles cruised the
| American skies with impunity for nearly two hours.
|
| Why did the North American Aerospace Defense Command seem
| unaware of literally dozens of warnings that hijacked
| jetliners could be used as weapons? Why does NORAD claim it
| did not learn that Flight 11 - the first jet to strike the
| World Trade Center about 8:45 a.m. - had been hijacked until
| 8:40 a.m., some 25 minutes after the transponder was shut
| off and an astounding 15 minutes after flight controllers
| heard a hijacker say, "We have some planes..."?
|
| Why didn't the fighters that were finally scrambled at Otis
| Air Force Base in Massachusetts and Langley Air Force Base
| in Virginia fly at top, supersonic speeds? Why didn't
| fighters immediately take off from Andrews Air Force Base,
| just outside Washington, D.C.? Why was nothing done to
| intercept American Airlines Flight 77, which struck the
| Pentagon, when officials knew it had been had been hijacked
| some 47 minutes earlier?
|
| And why has no one been disciplined for the worst breakdown
| in national defense since Pearl Harbor?
|
| 7. Why did President Bush continue reading a story to
| Florida grade-schoolers for nearly a half-hour during the
| worst attack on America in its history?
|
| In arguably the greatest understatement in U.S. history,
| Bush told a questioner at a California town-hall meeting in
| January 2002 that 9/11 "was an interesting day."
| Interesting, indeed. In the two years since the attacks,
| questions have only grown about the president's bizarre
| behavior that morning, when he was informed in a Sarasota
| classroom that America was under attack.
|
| "I couldn't stop watching the president sitting there,
| listening to second-graders, while my husband was burning in
| a building," World Trade Center widow Lorie van Auken, a
| leader of relatives of Sept. 11 victims who have raised
| questions about the attacks, told Gail Sheehy in the New
| York Observer.
|
| Why did Bush read a children's story about a pet goat and
| stay in the classroom for more than a half-hour after the
| first plane struck the World Trade Center and roughly 15
| minutes after Chief of Staff Andrew Card told him that it
| had been a deliberate attack? Why didn't he take more
| decisive action, and why wasn't he hustled to a secure area
| while the attacks were clearly still under way?
|
| Conspiracy advocates have cited these strange lapses as
| evidence that Bush knew about the attacks ahead of time, but
| why would anyone with advance knowledge appear so clueless?
|
| For a fascinating read on the subject, go to: An Interesting
| Day. <[br /> | http://unansweredquestions.org/timeline/main/essayaninterestingday.html
| , local mirror at
| http://uscrisis.lege.net/911/aninterestingday/ ]
|
| 8. How did Flight 93 crash in western Pennsylvania?
|
| The most popular version - that heroic passengers who fought
| with the hijackers successfully stormed the cockpit - has
| become so widely accepted that people were jarred last month
| when an Associated Press report seemed to contradict it. The
| AP story took one line out of a congressional report and
| wrote that the FBI now believes the hijackers crashed the
| plane on purpose.
|
| Many were dismayed that the FBI would change its story, but
| the government had never put out an official story. Some
| unidentified government officials had first floated the
| hijackers-crashed-the-plane-on-purpose theory in late 2001.
|
| Based solely on circumstantial evidence from several
| cell-phone calls made by passengers, most of the public and
| the mainstream media have come to believe that the plane
| crashed because of a struggle between the passengers and the
| hijackers.
|
| Meanwhile, the FBI reportedly has enough hard information
| about what really happened on Flight 93 to have worked up a
| flight-simulation video. But that video, the cockpit audio
| recording and the hard data from the other "black box," the
| flight data recorder, is still top secret.
|
| The issue symbolizes the government's continuing refusal to
| release information about what really happened on Sept. 11.
| Even some relatives of Flight 93 victims are growing unhappy
| that more information has not been publicized.
|
| 9. Was Zacarias Moussaoui really "the 20th hijacker"?
|
| Almost certainly not, even though the allegation has been
| repeated hundreds of times in the media. The Moroccan
| native, who has been in custody since his August 2001 arrest
| on immigration charges after he attended a flight-training
| school in Minneapolis, has admitted that he is a member of
| al Qaeda and wanted to commit terrorist acts in America. But
| he arrived here much later than the Sept. 11 hijackers and
| reportedly had no contacts with them.
|
| The issue is important because some family members of Sept.
| 11 victims who are seeking information about what happened
| that day have been turned down because of the ongoing
| Moussaoui case.
|
| 10. Where are the planes' "black boxes"?
|
| Nothing is more critical to learning about air disasters
| than the so-called "black boxes." They are the 30-minute
| audio recordings of cockpit chatter and the fight-data
| inputs which show the speed, direction and operational
| condition of the plane, and which are encased in material
| designed to withstand a high-speed crash. Yet the government
| has continued to keep a lid of secrecy on the black boxes
| from Flight 77, which crashed into the Pentagon, and from
| Flight 93.
|
| FBI Director Robert Mueller has said Flight 77's data
| recorder provided altitude, speed, headings and other
| information, but the voice recorder contained nothing
| useful. Why not? Why not release the information to the
| public? Why has a docile mainstream media not demanded this
| information?
|
| And how come none of the four "indestructible" black boxes
| was recovered from the World Trade Center, even as
| investigators said that a passport belonging to one of the
| hijackers had been found in the rubble, undamaged, a week
| after the towers's collapse?
|
| 11. Why were Donald Rumsfeld and other U.S. officials so
| quick to link Saddam Hussein to the attacks?
|
| CBS News reported that the defense secretary was making
| notes about invading Iraq even before the fires from Flight
| 77 had been extinguished on the other side of the Pentagon.
| Rumsfeld wrote that he wanted "best info fast. Judge whether
| good enough hit S.H." - Saddam Hussein - "at the same
| time. Not only UBL" - Osama bin Laden. He added: "Go
| massive. Sweep it all up. Things related and not."
|
| Rumsfeld and a number of other Bush administration officials
| have ties to a once-obscure policy group called the Project
| for a New American Century. In a 2000 white paper, PNAC -
| which had long urged an American invasion of Iraq - said
| that for the United States to assert itself properly as the
| world's lone superpower, "some catastrophic and catalyzing
| event - like a new Pearl Harbor" - would be required.
|
| That new Pearl Harbor came - two years ago today.
|
| 12. Why did 7 World Trade Center collapse?
|
| 7 World Trade Center, a 47-story building, was not struck by
| an aircraft on Sept. 11, yet the building mysteriously
| collapsed at 5:20 p.m. that afternoon. Apparently debris
| from the jetliner attacks on the adjacent twin towers
| started a fire at No. 7. But as the New York Times noted:
| "No building like it, a modern, steel-reinforced high-rise,
| had ever collapsed because of an uncontrolled fire."
| Investigators have speculated that excess diesel fuel for
| emergency generators fanned the flames, but the full story
| may never be known.
|
| Some questions also have lingered about why the two
| 110-story towers collapsed. But investigators think the
| burning jet fuel - compounded by paper-and-electronics-laden
| cubicles and possibly insulation matter - burned long
| enough, at temperatures exceeding 1,000 degrees, to weaken
| the structural steel.
|
| 13. Why did the Bush administration lie about dangerously
| high levels of toxins and hazardous particles after the WTC
| collapse?
|
| Because apparently some White House officials felt that the
| health of the American economy and Wall Street was more
| important than the health of New York City residents who
| lived nearby. For example, on Sept. 16, 2001, a draft press
| release from the Environmental Protection Agency said:
| "Recent samples of dust gathered by OSHA on Water Street
| showed higher levels of asbestos in EPA tests." That was
| deleted and replaced with this: "The new samples confirm
| previous reports that ambient air quality meets OSHA
| standards and consequently is not a cause for public
| concern."
|
| A key figure in the changes was the head of the White House
| Council on Environmental Quality, who - you can't make this
| stuff up - is a lawyer who formerly represented the asbestos
| industry.
|
| In fact, the EPA told workers and residents that it was safe
| to return to lower Manhattan at a time when some test
| results had not been analyzed and other key tests had not
| even been performed. The outcome? Key medical professionals
| say thousands of New Yorkers have developed respiratory
| illnesses associated with exposure to the dust. Symptoms
| include periodic gasping for air, a choking sensation and
| unusual sensitivity to airborne irritants, apparently from a
| type of "occupational asthma" called Reactive Airways
| Disease Syndrome.
|
| 14. Where is Dick Cheney's undisclosed location?
|
| We'll never know, but a widely reported rumor was that it
| was right here in the Keystone State. The speculation is the
| vice president spent the days after the attack at Site R, a
| secretive Cold War-era site, also known as Alternate Joint
| Communications Center, deep inside Raven Rock Mountain. The
| mountain is in western Pennsylvania, near Waynesboro.
|
| 15. What happened to the more than $1 billion that Americans
| donated after the attack?
|
| The largest recipient, the American Red Cross, says it
| already has used $741 million from its Liberty Fund to help
| more than 55,000 families cope with the death of loved ones,
| serious injuries, physical and mental health concerns,
| financial loss, homelessness and other effects of the
| attacks.
|
| Of that, $596 million was in the form of direct financial
| assistance to families of those killed or seriously injured,
| as well as to displaced workers, residents and emergency
| personnel who were seriously affected. Depending on
| individual needs, this financial assistance included up to a
| full year's living expenses, estate and
| special-circumstances cash grants, and more.
|
| 16. What was the role of Pakistan's spy agency in the Sept.
| 11 attacks and the subsequent murder of U.S. journalist
| Daniel Pearl?
|
| The idea that Pakistan is considered a leading American ally
| in the war on terror is both ironic and a bit disturbing
| when one considers that there are proven links between
| Pakistan's intelligence agency, the notorious ISI, and the
| Taliban, as well as likely ties to al Qaeda and bin Laden.
|
| In October 2001, the Wall Street Journal and many reputable
| news organizations in South Asia reported that the head of
| the ISI, Lt. Gen. Mahmoud Ahmad, was fired after being
| linked to a $100,000 payment that had been wired to al Qaeda
| hijacker Mohamed Atta in America to pay for the Sept. 11
| attacks. The New York Times said the intelligence service
| even used al Qaeda camps in Afghanistan to train covert
| operatives for use in a war of terror against India.
|
| In recent weeks, two troubling reports have emerged. The
| highly regarded French journalist Bernard-Henri Levy has
| written that Wall Street Journal reporter Pearl had been
| murdered by elements of the ISI because he'd learned that al
| Qaeda "is largely controlled by the Pakistani secret
| service" and that Islamic extremists control the nation's
| nuclear weapons. And investigative reporter Gerald Posner
| writes that bin Laden lieutenant Abu Zubaydah not only
| revealed a link to top Saudis but also to high-ranking
| Pakistani air force officer Mushaf Ali Mir. Mir, who is said
| to have cut protection deals in secret meetings with bin
| Laden, died earlier this year in a plane crash that also
| killed his wife and closest confidants.
|
| 17. Who killed five Americans with anthrax?
|
| Actually, it's not clear whether this question should even
| be on this list. Two years later, it's not known whether the
| anthrax-laden letters that killed five Americans from
| Connecticut to Florida, and targeted some leading Democratic
| pols and TV news anchors, had anything to do with the Sept.
| 11 attacks. Indeed, the list of potential suspects - al
| Qaeda terrorists, Saddam, crackpot U.S. scientists - hasn't
| been narrowed down. Our government's utter cluelessness
| about a reign of terror that rattled the nation and
| dominated the headlines in fall 2001 is an investigative
| failure of epic proportions.
|
| One man, a former Army biomedical researcher named Steven J.
| Hatfill, has been labeled "a person of interest" by the FBI,
| but nothing definitive has linked Hatfill to the crime. Just
| this summer, federal investigators drained a Frederick, Md.,
| pond where they speculated the anthrax letters might have
| been assembled, but tests of soil samples taken after the
| draining yielded no evidence of biological weapons. And now
| Hatfill has sued the government for invading his privacy -
| in a case that may never be solved.
|
| 18. What happened to the probe into C-4 explosives found in
| a Philadelphia bus terminal in fall 2001?
|
| Do you remember this front-page headline from Oct. 20, 2001:
| "In Phila. locker, a lethal find; Explosive 'would probably
| have leveled' bus depot." You can be forgiven if you don't.
| There's been no mention in local media since late 2001 of
| the alarming discovery of one-third of a pound of lethal C-4
| and 1,000 feet of military detonation cord in a locker at
| the Greyhound bus terminal in Center City, even though it's
| possibly the most direct link between Philadelphia and
| domestic terrorism.
|
| Investigators conceded a couple of months into their probe
| that the trail had gone stone-cold. They speculated that the
| material had been stolen from an Army base and that the
| culprit, who rented the locker on Sept. 29, 2001, decided
| that the material was too hot to handle after the Sept. 11
| attacks. The truth may never be known.
|
| 19. What is in the 28 blacked-out pages of the congressional
| Sept. 11 report?
|
| It's not a total mystery. Everyone has acknowledged that the
| pages contain highly embarrassing information about links
| between the Sept. 11 hijackers and the government of Saudi
| Arabia, America's supposed ally in the Middle East and home
| to the world's largest oil reserves. One of those officials
| is said to be Saudi ambassador Prince Bandar, whose wife,
| Princess Haifa, indirectly funded at least two of the Sept.
| 11 terrorists during their time in San Diego. The prince is
| so close to the Bush family that he's known, incredibly, as
| "Bandar Bush." This week, Time reports that just after the
| Sept. 11 attacks, when U.S. commercial airspace was still
| closed to our citizens, Bush allowed a jet to stop at 10
| U.S. cities to pick up and fly home 140 prominent Saudis,
| including relatives of bin Laden.
|
| A new must-read book by investigative reporter Posner - "Why
| America Slept" - takes the conspiracy to the highest of
| levels of the Saudi government. He says a top bin Laden
| lieutenant, Abu Zubaydah, who was captured in March 2002,
| stunned investigators when - allegedly given the "truth
| serum" sodium pentothal - fingered three top Saudis. They
| were Prince Ahmed bin Salman bin Abdul Aziz, the Westernized
| owner of 2002 Kentucky Derby winner War Emblem; Prince Turki
| al-Faisal bin Abdul Aziz, the kingdom's longtime
| intelligence chief, and Prince Fahd bin Turki bin Saud
| al-Kabir.
|
| The most incredible part of the story is what happened next.
| In an eight-day period in late July 2002, Prince Ahmed died
| at age 43 from a heart attack, Prince Turki died in a car
| crash and Prince Fahd "died of thirst." Coincidence? What do
| you think?
|
| 20. Where is Osama bin Laden?
|
| Remember how President Bush vowed on Sept. 17, 2001, that he
| was determined to catch bin Laden "dead or alive"? Well, the
| good news is that if he wants bin Laden "alive," there's
| still a chance that could happen. Intelligence experts now
| agree that bin Laden successfully escaped his Tora Bora
| hideout in Afghanistan back in December 2001 - when the U.S.
| failed to commit ample manpower to the chase - and that the
| al Qaeda leader is alive and well, and plotting new attacks.
|
| "We don't know where he is," Army Col. Rodney Davis,
| spokesman for America's forces in Afghanistan, said
| recently. But Newsweek seems to know where to find bin
| Laden: in the remote, mountainous - and lawless - Kunar
| province of Afghanistan. The magazine chillingly reported
| that just five short months ago, bin Laden convened the
| biggest terror summit since Sept. 11 at a mountain
| stronghold there. The participants reportedly included three
| top-ranking representatives from the Taliban, several senior
| al Qaeda operatives and leaders from radical Islamic groups
| in Chechnya and Uzbekistan. The topic was carrying out
| attacks against U.S. interests inside Iraq.
|
| The most chilling aspect of the Newsweek report is that bin
| Laden has access to biological weapons and is determined to
| find a way to use them against the United States. A source
| from the Taliban told the magazine: "Osama's next step will
| be unbelievable."
|
| But this week, ABC News reported that the hunt for bin Laden
| has been narrowed to a different area - a 40-square-mile
| section of the Waziristan region of Pakistan. The report
| said that local residents suspected of trying to inform
| Americans about bin Laden's whereabouts were executed in
| broad daylight.
|
|
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vincent_vega_lives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-08-05 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #21
26. A lot of intrigue and speculation but not a single fact
Not One. I assume you know the difference between questions and facts.

In fact several "facts" are outright falsehoods, which have been discussed at length here.
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Rob Conn Donating Member (136 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-05 11:51 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. Wake Up
I hope you read the information that Delver has provided. If you have, then you must no longer claim to have encountered no evidence supporting a conspiracy. Unless of course you intend to devise clever ways of dismissing each and every one of these facts. But you are likely less qualified to question them than accept them, because these facts are all derived from mainstream news reports. Of course if you have been around 'since the beginning' as you say, then you would have had to have dodged and dismissed many such opportunities to learn such facts, so we can have no great expectations for your awakening. I always hope for the best. - R.C.
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vincent_vega_lives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-08-05 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #23
27. Seen it all before.
And you obviously aren't clever enough to discern "questions" from facts.

All of the above raises questions, none provide answers.
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seatnineb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-08-05 04:10 AM
Response to Reply #20
24. Yeah.....you are right!

There is no support for the conspiracy of 19 arabs takin' on the mighty U.S on 9/11/01...........
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vincent_vega_lives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-08-05 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #24
28. Most of it resides right here.
and continue to :banghead:
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seatnineb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-08-05 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #28
32. In fact most of it resides in here.............



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spooked911 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-08-05 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #24
30. Trying to convince the official conspiracy theorists* here of anything
Edited on Wed Jun-08-05 12:22 PM by spooked911
is a complete waste of time. They are obviously too close-minded to see anything except their pre-conceived notion of the world.

*By this I mean people who believe in the official 9/11 story as told by the 9/11 commission.
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hack89 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-08-05 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. It beats being so open minded that your brain falls out! (NT)
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seatnineb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-08-05 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. Most of the knowledge that you derive.........

.......probably comes from here.





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hack89 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-08-05 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. Why are you so certain that there isn't a third choice?
Proving the 9/11 commission wrong does not make you automatically right. I would be more inclined to take 9/11 "researchers" seriously if they did more than nitpick the official story apart and instead presented a detailed and comprehensive theory that could stand by itself. It just isn't there - all you have is questions but no facts. After four years you have no names, no details, no physical evidence - nothing except the same questions over and over again.
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seatnineb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-05 08:21 AM
Response to Reply #35
40. What is really interesting..........

.....is that those very questions should have been adressed in here....

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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-05 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #40
43. How could it be
with Philip Zalikow (Bush mole) leading the "investigations"?????
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hack89 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-08-05 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #30
36. And of course your hatred of the BFEE has no influence on your views!
Edited on Wed Jun-08-05 06:54 PM by hack89
"pre-conceived notion of the world" my ass.
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ROH Donating Member (521 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-08-05 05:36 AM
Response to Reply #20
25. Do you know the meaning...
of the word "conspiracy"?
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vincent_vega_lives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-08-05 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #25
29. Lets see...
yes.

Main Entry: con·spire
Pronunciation: k&n-'spIr
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): con·spired; con·spir·ing
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French conspirer, from Latin conspirare to be in harmony, conspire, from com- + spirare to breathe
transitive senses : PLOT, CONTRIVE
intransitive senses
1 a : to join in a secret agreement to do an unlawful or wrongful act or an act which becomes unlawful as a result of the secret agreement b : SCHEME
2 : to act in harmony toward a common end <circumstances conspired to defeat his efforts>
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ROH Donating Member (521 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-08-05 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. At least that illustrates that you can find the meaning...
of the word 'conspire'.
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Dancing_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-08-05 09:36 PM
Response to Original message
37. The 9/11 truth movement needs to become part of a larger counter-culture.
Actually, in a world so totally saturated by mass media illusions as ours is, some specific "truth" on it's own can't make any difference. However, if a total movement against all official 9/11 lies becomes part of a larger counter-culture that discovers better social channels than the neo-con Empire based on the Official 9/11 Myth, well that's one groovy possibility that COULD make a difference!
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LARED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-08-05 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. What in the world does that mean??
However, if a total movement against all official 9/11 lies becomes part of a larger counter-culture that discovers better social channels than the neo-con Empire based on the Official 9/11 Myth, well that's one groovy possibility that COULD make a difference!

Is it my age, or is this gibberish?

If possible please explain.
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hack89 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-08-05 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. It's not your age. (nt)
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Rob Conn Donating Member (136 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-11-05 01:41 PM
Response to Original message
44. Great Post!
We need more people like this in here.
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