David Ray Griffin--worth reading?

[Orrex]

I saw him on CSPAN2 yesterday discussing what he describes as clear and irrefutable evidence that 9/11 was orchestrated rather than simply facilitated by Bushco and the Neocons.

I am loathe to engage in conspiracy theory too readily unless I know something about the credibility of the source.

Is Griffin on to something, or is he a crank?

(on edit: Whoops! Sorry, mod--I didn't even think to put it in Sept11. Thanks for the move!)

[Stanchetalarooni]

1. Griffin is on to something.

Bush, Cheney, et al are the cranks.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

2. YES!

I downloaded the book from IndyMedia, it's only 100 pages, worth printing out.... I'll look for the link...

[acmejack]

3. Neither.

Griffin is a respected theologian, retired from Claremont, which is a well known seminary. He supports his case with hard cold facts.

[Orrex]

4. I think you may have misunderstood me 8^)

I wrote "is he on to something or is he a crank?"

I hope you didn't think I meant "is he on something..."

Thanks for the information.

[RedSock]

5. srart with the new pearl harbor book

btw, at first griffin himself thought those who believe the govt was involved were wacko CT loony nuts.

then he began reading the evidence (like paul thompson's terror timeline (also a book you should own).

[rodeodance]

6. why call it a conspiracy theory--before you read it?--

......I am loathe to engage in conspiracy theory too readily unless I know something about the credibility of the source. .........

[John Doe II]

7. Paul Thompson's Timeline

is based entirely on official sources and widely acknowledged media accounts like CNN, New York Times, Guardian, BBC etc etc.
check out: www.cooperativeresearch.org
The updated version is available as a book.

[rumpel]

9. Griffin explained, conspiracy theory:

Something to the effect of:

A conspiracy is, when someone conspires with another to comitt a crime. A theory is an analysis of the crime. Therefore, the 911 Report is also a conspiracy theory based on the premise that 11 muslim hijackers comitted the crime.

[Orrex]

12. Haven't read it; I caught a chunk of his presentation on CSPAN2

Unfortunately, I was unable to synthesize all of the info he was giving--there was a ton of it, and some of it dovetailed with other stuff I've already heard debunked elsewhere (pre-planted explosives in the WTC; a US military attack rather than a civilian jet hitting the Pentagon; etc.) I'm not saying that Griffin is wrong, but I don't want to embrace his thesis too readily if it's just more of the same. Much of it came across as too circustantial or coincidental for me to swallow it on faith.

I accept the likelihood that much more happened on 9/11 than has been publicly acknowledged, but I'd like to see stronger evidence than what amounts to "isn't it strange that both X and Y happened on that day?"

No disrespect to Griffin, either; if he's right, then I'll happily recant my objection here.

[hiley]

8. someone gave me link to David Ray Griffin transcript...

25. Transcript link and article about DRG


David Ray Griffin, April 18, 2005 and re-aired on May 7, 2005
9/11 and the American Empire: How Should Religious People Respond?
by David Ray Griffin

http://www.radicalsages.com/interviews_exclusive_id.php...


----------------------------------------------------------------

About David Ray Griffin, from 911Visibilty website:
http://www.septembereleventh.org/newsarchive/2004-12-11 ...

Theologian Asks the Hard Questions About 9/11
by Douglas Todd
Vancouver Sun
Saturday, Dec 11, 2004
Link to Original


David Ray Griffin is one of the most respected philosophers of religion in North America. He is the author or editor of more than 24 academic books, including works co-written with the deans of world religions, Huston Smith and Martin Marty. He has lectured around the world, including at UBC.

Griffin is one of those profiled in the prestigious volume, A Handbook of Christian Theologians. He's painstakingly probed countless philosophical challenges, from the question of why there is evil to the relationship between science and religion, for which he's won numerous awards.

So why did this soft-spoken professor from the high-ranking Methodist-

snip---

[rumpel]

10. Griffin mentioned Space domination:

Protesters Occupy University of Hawaii Admin Building

Since 10 a.m. on Thursday, April 28th, a coalition of Native Hawaiian groups, students, faculty, anti-war activists, environmentalists, and religious organizations have joined forces to occupy the University of Hawaii administration building, to demand the University cease all work on a secret Navy research project, UARC. This research is for the development of space-based laser systems, surveillance technologies, and sea-based mines.

Since September 11, 2001, the US military has embarked on the largest expansion onto Hawaiian land, since World War II. The Army plans to take 28,000 acres of this precious land to station a Stryker Brigade.


http://indymedia.us/en/2005/04/6727.shtml

Honolulu, HI – A group of nonviolent protesters have entered Bachman Hall, the University of Hawaii administration building, and have demanded an end to the University Affiliated Research Center (UARC) project, which would establish a secret military research facility to conduct Navy weapons development. The group -- consisting of students, faculty, and concerned community members -- has prepared a formal statement of legal, moral, health, cultural, and political reasons why UARC should be dropped. They have prepared a formal letter to the US Navy for Interim President David McClain to sign stating that UH is withdrawing its UARC application, because of the substantial public concern over increased secret military research. The nonviolent protesters have stated that they will not leave Bachman Hall until Mr. McClain publicly declares the end of UARC.

[delver]

11. if you have an open mind...

"The New Pearl Harbor" may change your life. All it takes is a fair consideration of the evidence and you will see that the mainstream take on 9/11 is an illusion. if you believe that we have a "free press" in this country or that people are generally "rational," then Griffin's books might not be worth reading.

[Orrex]

13. Thanks--perhaps I'll check it out.

By the way, of course the press is free. Free to print whatever keeps the masses from receiving information that might curtail their shopping sprees.

And people are generally rational, of course. I wish I could recount for you the rational, in-depth analysis my coworkers undertake regarding American Idol, Amazing Race, and Brad-n-Angelina.

:banghead:

[mirandapriestly]

14. I'm reading The New Pearl Harbor

and I recommend it because he presents facts, and sometimes provides the argument for the other side (when there is one that hasn't been changed 3 times, although he presents those too). It is good because he doesn't start on the Bohemian Grove conspiracy, or Skull and Bones stuff, which can sound silly. He also doesn't draw conclusions or create far fetched theories or any theories. But, if you look at all the evidence you will definitely find yourself questioning the "official version". He also offers extensive, credible footnotes, which are often as interesting as the text.