'Statement of Facts' in Moussaoui Case

[LARED]

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2005/04/22/national/a173217D85.DTL


1. Al Qaeda was an international terrorist group dedicated to opposing the United States with force and violence. Usama Bin Laden was the founder and head of al Qaeda. ...............

2. Usama Bin Laden and al Qaeda declared a jihad against the United States. Bin Laden and members of al Qaeda issued fatwahs indicating that violent attacks on the United States and its citizens were both proper and necessary and that Muslims should kill Americans — including civilians — anywhere in the world, anytime.


3. Usama Bin Laden and al Qaeda provided and supported training camps and guesthouses in Afghanistan, including camps known as al Farooq and Khalden. These camps were used to instruct members and associates of al Qaeda and its affiliated groups in the use of firearms, explosives, chemical weapons, and other weapons of mass destruction.


4. Defendant Zacarias Moussaoui, who also used the names "Abu Khaled al Sahrawi" and "Shaquil," became a member of al Qaeda and pledged bayat to Bin Laden, Moussaoui's "father in jihad."


5. ..............

6. .................

7. As part of its conspiracy to attack the United States, al Qaeda members conceived of an operation in which civilian commercial airliners would be hijacked and flown into prominent buildings, including government buildings, in the United States. To effect this attack, al Qaeda associates entered the United States, received funding from abroad, engaged in physical fitness training, and obtained knives and other weapons with which to take over airliners. Some al Qaeda associates obtained pilot training, including training on commercial jet simulators, so they would be able to fly hijacked aircraft into their targets.


8. Bin Laden personally approved those selected to participate in the operation, who were willing to die in furtherance of their religious beliefs and al Qaeda's agenda.


9. Moussaoui knew of al Qaeda's plan to fly airplanes into prominent buildings in the United States and he agreed to travel to the United States to participate in the plan. Bin Laden personally selected Moussaoui to participate in the operation to fly planes into American buildings and approved Moussaoui attacking the White House.................


10. .....................

11. ..........................


12. On February 23, 2001, Moussaoui traveled from London to Chicago and then on to Norman, Oklahoma, where he attended the Airman Flight School and received training as a pilot. ................ In Summer 2001, an al Qaeda associate directed Moussaoui to attend training for larger jet planes.


13. While in Oklahoma, Moussaoui joined a gym and bought knives. Moussaoui selected certain knives because they had blades short enough to get past airport security.


14. ................


15. In August 2001, Moussaoui traveled to Minnesota where he trained on a Boeing 747-400 simulator at the Pan Am International Flight Academy in Eagan, Minnesota. Moussaoui told an al Qaeda associate that he would complete simulator training before September 2001.


16. On August 16, 2001, Moussaoui was arrested in Minnesota by agents of the INS and the FBI. At the time of his arrest, Moussaoui possessed the following items:


_ two knives


_ flight manuals for the Boeing 747 Model 400


_ a flight simulator computer program


_ fighting gloves and shin guards


_ a piece of paper referring to a handheld Global Positioning System


_ software that could be used to review pilot procedures for the Boeing 747 Model 400


_ a hand-held aviation radio.


After his arrest, Moussaoui lied to federal agents to allow his al Qaeda "brothers" to go forward with the operation to fly planes into American buildings. ..................


17. On September 11, 2001, al Qaeda operatives used force and violence to hijack American Airlines Flight 11, bound from Boston to Los Angeles, and crashed it into the North Tower of the World Trade Center in New York City, destroying the building and killing thousands of people.


18. On September 11, 2001, al Qaeda operatives used force and violence to hijack United Airlines Flight 175, bound from Boston to Los Angeles, and crashed it into the South Tower of the World Trade Center in New York City, destroying the building and killing thousands of people.


19. .....................


20. On September 11, 2001, al Qaeda operatives used force and violence to hijack American Airlines Flight 77, bound from Virginia to Los Angeles, and crashed it into the Pentagon, a United States government building, damaging the building and killing 189 people, many of whom were United States government employees, including employees of the United States Department of Defense, engaged in their official duties.


21. On September 11, 2001, al Qaeda operatives used force and violence to hijack United Airlines Flight 93, bound from Newark to San Francisco, which then crashed in Somerset County, Pennsylvania, killing all on board.


23. .............

Seen and agreed,


Zacarias Moussaoui, Defendant

[ramblin_dave]

1. We have no way of knowing what they did to Moussaoui

to get him to sign this. These 'facts' haven't been fully tested in a way that the public can evaluate them.

This could easily be a government effort to bolster their conspiracy theory as to what happened.

Many of these items are just statements of what the government claims to have happened on 9/11. I don't see how Moussaoui would have been a position to corroborate them even if he was involved in the attacks.

[Bolo Boffin]

2. You don't see how Moussaoui

would have been in a position to corroborate these statements as facts?

You're kidding, right? Most of the statements have Moussaoui as the subject of the sentence. He was definitely in a position to corroborate that. Everything else listed above are either premises to things he could corroborate or natural results of things he knew.

In a court of law, Moussaoui pled guilty to six counts against him, and validated this statemnt of facts. If you have evidence of coercion, let's hear it. Because everything I've seen about this says that Moussaoui did it of his own free will, against the advice and consent of his lawyers. They would have been in a position to corroborate any coercion, and would have used this evidence when speaking to the judge about stopping Moussaoui from doing this. They didn't do this. Therefore, Moussaoui wasn't coerced into accepting this statement of fact.

[Frederik]

3. Perhaps, but

Moussaoui retracted his original admission, and there have been serious concerns over his mental health.

"The statement of facts included as part of Moussaoui's plea said the French citizen was part of a conspiracy "to fly planes into American buildings" that culminated in the Sept. 11 attacks on the World Trade Center and Pentagon that killed nearly 3,000 people. It said Moussaoui had been personally selected by al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden "to participate in the operation" and that bin Laden told him: "Sahrawi, remember your dream."

Yet minutes after agreeing to these written allegations, Moussaoui said in a rambling monologue in Alexandria's federal courthouse that he was not part of the attacks but was involved in a separate plot to fly an airplane into the White House in order to free Sheik Omar Abdel Rahman, who is imprisoned for the 1993 World Trade Center bombing. Moussaoui also said he planned to argue that he should avoid the death penalty because he was not directly involved in the Sept. 11 attacks.

"I came to the United States of America to be part, okay, of a conspiracy to use airplane as a weapon of mass destruction," Moussaoui said. "I was being trained on the 747 . . . to eventually use this plane . . . to strike the White House. But this conspiracy was a different conspiracy from September 11."
(...)
"If we thought by the end of the day we would find the holy grail as to exactly what the genesis of 9/11 was and what Moussaoui's role in it was, we have been sorely disappointed," said Bruce Hoffman, a terrorism expert who heads the Washington office of the Rand Corp. "This contradiction in his behavior raises more questions than it answers. The book still isn't closed on 9/11, I'm afraid."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A10300-2005Apr22?language=printer

[seatnineb]

5. Wrong.

You forgot something.

ALEXANDRIA, Va. — Accused Sept. 11 conspirator Zacarias Moussaoui was inadvertently given classified FBI interview reports by the government, and authorities had to go into his cell and recover them, according to court papers released Thursday.

The government initially said two classified documents were in Moussaoui's possession, then acknowledged there were seven before finally determining there were 48.

Despite their hard work and valiant effort, the Marshal's Service could not find two of the seven documents. Unfortunately, one of the remaining two documents is the MOST CRITICAL of the seven," Spencer wrote.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0%2C2933%2C64203%2C00.html .

See if you can do better than LARED in coming up with an explanation....

[Bolo Boffin]

14. Unless you care to explain your verbal solipisms

so that we all understand where you're coming from, keep them to yourself.

[Woody Box]

4. A disabled terrorist saves the official story

:wtf:

Seriously, no problems with the credibility of terrorists?

[John Doe II]

6. Credibility

What do you expect if half of the CR is based on so called interviews with KSM and Binshalibh. Nobody bothers that theses guys haven't been seen since their capture. Nobody bothers that eg the capture of KSM is extremely contradictory even till accounts that he is already dead. Nobody bothers that neither a German nor a US court has the right to call them for questioning.
But sure that's evidence.

And gosh, Moussaoui.
I can only say how convenient...!

Just at the moment where nothing works anymore and the official side lost all creditibility and Moussaoui becomes the new hero of the White House.
Sure, ............;;;;

[seatnineb]

11. Duplicate!

Delete:

[seatnineb]

12. Agreed!

The style of Binalshib's arrest was just as contradictory.

Then Moussoui called for Binalshib to testify in court that he was not involved in the attack!

The U.S goverment said that was out of the question.

And the end result.

The case has dragged on.....

But whilst the case drags on.......

The FBI can withhold evidence found at the sites in NYC,The Pentagon and Shanksville on the grounds of an ongoing investigation

How convenient is that!


;-)

[LARED]

7. The irony is grand

Moussaoui had plenty of credibility with the CT crowd prior to admitting he was involved with OBL, and was conspiring to fly a plane into the WH.

Now, he's a disabled terrorist that has no credibility.


Pleeeease!!!!!

[Woody Box]

8. Moussaui had plenty of credibility

with 9/11 skeptics?

Source, please?


Thanks

[seatnineb]

9. We could be waiting a long time Woody!

;-)

[JackRiddler]

13. I don't know who this CT crowd are...

but M. was never a source for me, credible or not. Beating up strawmen again, are we?

M. said he was a bin Ladin associate ("al-Qaeda") more than two years ago, which I suppose shows how much you've read and retained about the case.

[LARED]

15. Strawmen?

There is a large segment of the 9/11 "skeptics" community that believes al-Qaeda is not a real entity, bin laden had nothing to do with 9/11, the 19 arab hijackers did not exist or the planes were flown via a nintendo joystick in the WH basement.

Many of this sort were believing that "M" knew of government involvement, but was unable to tell for reasons only the BFEE could know. But now that "M" freely puts these notions to bed, he's all of a sudden just a crazy, sick terrorist.

The interesting part to me is the ease that the true believer can incorporate that latest piece of the puzzle into their belief system without changing the ends, even though the puzzle piece changed shape.

[seatnineb]

18. It is not a question of Arabs being involved.......

Rather it is a question of how they were involved.

[JackRiddler]

20. since I was never part of this "large segment"

...as you define it (mixing up various possibilities and attributing them en masse to many different people) I don't really care.

M. signed a statement written by the govt. but continues to deny involvement in the 9/11/01 plot. His statement (hijackings to get the sheikh released) is consistent with the possibility he was a patsy.

Why hasn't the govt produced KSM or Binalshibh for use in the German trials, or in this case?

Just what was Coleen Rowley talking about when she wrote 13 pages on how the higher-ups obstructed (not ignored) the pre-9/11 M. investigation?

Oops, why did the FBI fire Robert Wright?
http://www.911citizenswatch.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=525

Why is the Sibel Edmonds case being conducted in a secret court?
http://www.911citizenswatch.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=524

Never mind!

[spooked911]

16. Plenty of credibility???

We thought his CASE had credibility as foreknowledge of 9/11. We never thought Moussaoui had credibility personally. As far as I am concerned, he was a patsy, put out to save the official story.

[ramblin_dave]

10. Moussaoui wasn't training on a 757-767 aircraft

so it makes no sense that he was part of the 9/11 attacks.

He was training on the 747 simulator. For what purpose? Who knows, maybe it was a separate project? At any rate, the government's refusal to grant a FISA warrant for Moussaoui is consistent with the government knowing something was up and was determined to let it happen.

[spooked911]

17. LARED-- any ideas on why the government wouldn't let Moussaoui interview

Ramzi Binalshibh and Khalid Sheik Mohammed?

What was the government afraid of leaking out?

[ramblin_dave]

19. Moussaoui says he's guilty, but not for 9/11

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/04/23/MNGFFCE37H1.DTL


Zacarias Moussaoui, the only person to stand trial in the United States in connection with the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, pleaded guilty on Friday to participating in a broad conspiracy by al Qaeda to fly planes into American buildings.

Moussaoui, clad in a dark-green prison jumpsuit, stood before Judge Leonie Brinkema of the U.S. District Court here and said that he was forgoing a trial and understood that his guilty plea means he may be executed. But Moussaoui, a 36-year-old French citizen of Moroccan heritage who was arrested more than three years ago, offered a surprise: He said that despite his guilty plea he had nothing to do with the Sept. 11 attacks.

[Solomon]

21. Please. Please. Let's not forget how utterly stupid this guy appeared

to be right from the beginning. Wasn't he the guy who went everywhere drawing attention to himself by saying he didn't want to learn how to land planes?

Always saw him as the biggest patsy in history. How difficult was it to set him up?

Sheeezz. I can't believe anybody relying on this guy for proof of anything. What a joke.

[stickdog]

22. So what did Moussaoui have to do with 9/11 again?

Moussaoui has admitted that he is basically guilty of 9/11-like thoughtcrime. He had nothing to do with the events of 9/11. The fact that terrorists planned to fly planes into prominent Western buildings comes as no surprise to anyone conversant the history of terrorism. Moussaoui was connected to 9/11 about as much as he was connected to Operation Bojinka.