Proof that 9/11 Truthers Are Dangerous and Kooky

[court jester]

Most Americans don't know what kind of people 9/11 truthers really are.
So they can't figure out whether or not they are dangerous.

Below is a list of people who question what our Government has
said about 9/11. The list proves - once and for all - that people
who question 9/11 are dangerous.

Email this list to everyone you know, to prove to them that 9/11 truthers
are all dangerous nut cases. And probably armed.

Senior intelligence officers:

A 27-year CIA veteran, who chaired National Intelligence Estimates and personally delivered intelligence briefings to Presidents Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush, their Vice Presidents, Secretaries of State, the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and many other senior government officials (Raymond McGovern) said “I think at simplest terms, there’s a cover-up. The 9/11 Report is a joke”, and is open to the possibility that 9/11 was an inside job.

A number of intelligence officials, including a CIA Operations Officer who co-chaired a CIA multi-agency task force coordinating intelligence efforts among many intelligence and law enforcement agencies (Lynne Larkin) sent a joint letter to Congress expressing their concerns abouthttp://www.pogo.org/m/hsp/hsp-911commission-040913.pdf">“serious shortcomings,” “omissions,” and “major flaws” in the 9/11 Commission Report and offering their services for a new investigation (they were ignored)

20-year Marine Corps infantry and intelligence officer, the second-ranking civilian in U.S. Marine Corps Intelligence, and former CIA clandestine services case officer (David Steele) stated that "9/11 was at a minimum allowed to happen as a pretext for war", and it was probably an inside job (scroll down to Customer Review dated October 7, 2006).

A decorated 20-year CIA veteran, who Pulitzer-Prize winning investigative reporter Seymour Hersh called "perhaps the best on-the-ground field officer in the Middle East”, and whose astounding career formed the script for the Academy Award winning motion picture
Syriana (Robert Baer) said that "the evidence points at" 9/11 having had aspects of being an inside job

Former military analyst and famed whistleblower Daniel Ellsberg said that the case of a certain 9/11 whistleblower is "far more explosive than the Pentagon Papers". He also said that the government is ordering the media to cover up her allegations about 9/11. And he said that some of the claims concerning government involvement in 9/11 are credible, that "very serious questions have been raised about what they knew beforehand and how much involvement there might have been", that engineering 9/11 would not be humanly or psychologically beyond the scope of the current administration, and that there's enough evidence to justify a new, "hard-hitting" investigation into 9/11 with subpoenas and testimony taken under oath (see this and this).

The Division Chief of the CIA’s Office of Soviet Affairs, who served as Senior Analyst from 1966 - 1990. He also served as Professor of International Security at the National War College from 1986 - 2004 (Melvin Goodman) said "The final (9/11 Commission) report is ultimately a coverup."

Professor of History and International Relations, University of Maryland. Former Executive Assistant to the Director of the National Security Agency, former military attaché in China, with a 21-year career in U.S. Army Intelligence Major John M. Newman, PhD, U.S. Army questions the government's version of the events of 9/11.

A 29-year CIA veteran, former National Intelligence Officer (NIO) and former Director of the CIA's Office of Regional and Political
Analysis (William Bill Christison) said“I now think there is persuasive evidence that the events of September did not unfold as the Bush administration and the 9/11 Commission would have us believe” ... All three were most probably destroyed by controlled demolition charges placed in the buildings before 9/11." (and see this).

Congressmen:

According to the Co-Chair of the Congressional Inquiry into 9/11 and former Head of the Senate Intelligence Committee, Bob Graham,
an FBI informant had hosted and rented a room to two hijackers in 2000 and that, when the Inquiry sought to interview the informant, the FBI refused outright, and then hid him in an unknown location, and that a high-level FBI official stated these blocking maneuvers were undertaken *under orders from the White House* (confirmed here)

Current Democratic U.S. Senator Patrick Leahy said "The two questions that the congress will not ask . . . is why did 9/11 happen on George Bush's watch when he had clear warnings that it was going to happen? Why did they allow it to happen?"

Current Democratic Congressman Dennis Kucinich hints that we aren't being told the truth about 9/11

Former Democratic Senator Mike Gravel states that he supports a new 9/11 investigation and that we don't know the truth about 9/11

Former Republican Senator Lincoln Chaffee endorses a new 9/11 investigation

Former U.S. Democratic Congressman Dan Hamburg says that the U.S. government "assisted" in the 9/11 attacks, stating that "I think there was a lot of help from the inside"

Former U.S. Republican Congressman and senior member of the House Armed Services Committee, and who served six years as the
Chairman of the Military Research and Development Subcommittee Curt Weldon has shown that the U.S. tracked hijackers before 9/11,
is open to hearing information about explosives in the Twin Towers, and is open to the possibility that 9/11 was an inside job

9/11 Commissioners:

The Commission's co-chairs said that the 9/11 Commissioners knew that military officials misrepresented the facts to the Commission, and the Commission considered recommending criminal charges for such false statements (free subscription required-sometimes)

9/11 Commission co-chair Lee Hamilton says http://www.cbc.ca/sunday/911hamilton.html">"I don't believe for a minute we got everything right", that the Commission was set up to fail, that people should keep asking questions about 9/11, and that the 9/11 debate should continue

9/11 Commissioner Timothy Roemer said "We were extremely frustrated with the false statements we were getting"

9/11 Commissioner Max Cleland resigned from the Commission, stating: "It is a national scandal"; "This investigation is now compromised"; and "One of these days we will have to get the full story because the 9-11 issue is so important to America. But this White House wants to cover it up"

9/11 Commissioner Bob Kerrey said that "There are ample reasons to suspect that there may be some alternative to what we outlined in our version . . .We didn't have access . . . ."

And the Senior Counsel to the 9/11 Commission (John Farmer) - who led the 9/11 staff's inquiry - recently said "At some level of the government, at some point in time...there was an agreement not to tell the truth about what happened". He also said "I was shocked at how different the truth was from the way it was described .... The tapes told a radically different story from what had been told to us and the public for two years.... This is not spin. This is not true."

Other government officials:

U.S. General, Commanding General of U.S. European Command and Supreme Allied Commander Europe, decorated with the Bronze Star, Silver Star, and Purple Heart (General Wesley Clark) said "We've never finished the investigation of 9/11 and whether the administrationactually misused the intelligence information it had. The evidence seems pretty clear to me. I've seen that for a long time."

Former Deputy Secretary for Intelligence and Warning under Nixon, Ford, and Carter (Morton Goulder), former Deputy Director to the
White House Task Force on Terrorism (Edward L. Peck), and former US Department of State Foreign Service Officer (J. Michael Springmann), as well as a who's who of liberals and independents) jointly call for a new investigation into 9/11

Former Federal Prosecutor, Office of Special Investigations, U.S. Department of Justice under Presidents Jimmy Carter and Ronald Reagan; former U.S. Army Intelligence officer, and currently a widely-sought media commentator on terrorism and intelligence services (John Loftus) says "The information provided by European intelligence services prior to 9/11 was so extensive that it is no longer possible for either the CIA or FBI to assert a defense of incompetence."

The Group Director on matters of national security in the U.S. Government Accountability Office said that President Bush did not respond to unprecedented warnings of the 9/11 disaster and conducted a massive cover-up instead of accepting responsibility

President of the U.S. Air Force Accident Investigation Board, who also served as Pentagon Weapons Requirement Officer and as a
member of the Pentagon's Quadrennial Defense Review, and who was awarded Distinguished Flying Crosses for Heroism, four Air Medals, four Meritorious Service Medals, and nine Aerial Achievement Medals (Lt. Col. Jeff Latas) is a member of a group which doubts the government's version of 9/11

Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense under President Ronald Reagan (Col. Ronald D. Ray) said that the official story of 9/11 is "the dog that doesn't hunt"

The former director of the FBI (Louis Freeh) says there was a cover up by the 9/11 Commission

Director of the U.S. "Star Wars" space defense program in both Republican and Democratic administrations, who was a senior air
force colonel who flew 101 combat missions (Col. Robert Bowman) stated: "If our government had merely nothing, and I say that as an old interceptor pilot—I know the drill, I know what it takes, I know how long it takes, I know what the procedures are, I know what they were, and I know what they’ve changed them to—if our government had merely done nothing, and allowed normal procedures to happen on that morning of 9/11, the Twin Towers would still be standing and thousands of dead Americans would still be alive. hat is treason!"

And--Numerous other politicians, judges, legal scholars, and attorneys also question at least some aspects of the government's version of 9/11.

---

Clearly only kooks and liars doubt. Pass it on. 911 Truthers are dangerous.

Received via E-mail (unFormatted Thank you, that took 3 hrs!) Please remember to pass it on.


19 Arabs with boxcutters huh.
You'd think the Russians would be pissed.

[SDuderstadt]

1. "19 arabs with boxcutters huh"

Why, of course, everyone knows arabs are totally incompetent as a people.

Therefore, it had to be an "inside job". Two simple questions, dude. Have you actually read the 9/11 Commission Report? Where is the physical evidence for an "inside job"?

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SDuderstadt]

4. Satire always goes over your head...

why should I think this time would be any different?

Again, where is the physical evidence for "9/11 was an inside job"?

P.S. BTW, I'm not the one claiming that "19 arabs with boxcutters" couldn't have pulled off 9/11, dude. That's the "truther" mantra. So, who's the "racist"? BTW, have you ever taken an anthropology class? Hint: Arab isn't a race, dude.

[court jester]

5. I think it's wonderfully hilarious how you concentrated on the penultimate tagline

and ignored 29 paragraphs of people that have some serious doubts that the whole truth was told.

Oh and your use of the *D* word is.... well, fascinating. As to your questions, here is all you need to know.

I think the people in that post above raise some questions I want to see answered.

Have a great day, Dude (jeesh)



19 Arabs with box cutters
did what the USSR could not
That's hardly incompetent Dude

[SDuderstadt]

7. If you understod how NORAD was structured prior to 9/11...

you'd understand how "19 arabs with boxcutters" could accomplish what Russia couldn't. Actually, 19 Russian hijackers could have done the same thing.

The questions you want answers to actually have answers, but not if you're lazy. Simple question: have you actually read the 911 Commission Report?

[jberryhill]

11. I'm disappointed that General Stubblebine has been demoted...

I scrolled through, waiting for his august appearance.

There's an interesting article in Mother Jones this month about Stubblebine's connection to Oath Keepers and the Ron Paulites involved in the nascent far right treason movement. That guy gets around.

[jberryhill]

12. And what, exactly, are any of these folks doing about it?

It's just scandalous that all of these illustrious folks are doing precisely nothing.

(with the exception of guys like Robert Bowman, who has gone off and made himself bishop of his very own religion)

[deconstruct911]

74. Any more fictional books

you care to let us in on?

[whatchamacallit]

77. Wow, rereading some of this thread was painful

A whole lot of brazen assholery on display.

[SDuderstadt]

83. Well, thanks for contributing your share of it...

nonetheless.

[William Seger]

3. BULLSHIT is dangerous

Bullshit never did anyone any good.

While the "truth movement" does attract a lot of mentally ill people, it seems that most of them are just kooky, not dangerous. However, if you thought none of them are dangerous, you were wrong.

[court jester]

6. "dangerous"

Are some of those people in the OP "dangerous" do you think?

Are they all lying? Trying to get on tv? Lonely? Maybe they're "Retarded" with apologies to a one R. Emanuel



Court Jesters were
dangerous once

[William Seger]

8. How many people on that list

... believe idiotic theories about controlled demolitions and fake plane crashes?

Your list is a bullshit attempt to deliberately confuse a lot of different issues by quote mining. Bullshit never did anyone any good.

[Ohio Joe]

9. Truthers cherry picking quotes....

I'm shocked... oh wait... no I'm not.

[BeFree]

10. Kick

[Indi Guy]

13. I actually checked out some of the sources posted...

57 Political Leaders have already signed the petition -- http://pl911truth.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=47&Itemid=53

Peter H. Allen, Representative from Cheshire, New Hampshire State House of Representatives, 2000-present; member, Environment and Agriculture Committee.

Brae Antcliffe BA LLB, Elected Alderman to the Council of The City of Sydney, Australia, early 1980s for 3.5 years

Berit Ås, former member of Parliament, Norway (Charter Member of PL911Truth)

Shirley Bianchi, 1999-2007 District Two San Luis Obispo County Supervisor, California (Retired) Click here to see statement

Michael E. J. Blastos, Mayor of Keene, NH, USA, 2000-2008; City Councilor, Keene, NH, 1976-1999.

Eric Booth, elected Former Islands Trustee, Salt Spring Island Local Trust Committee (Local Government), 2002-2005 Click here to see statement

Dr. Robert M. Bowman, former Director of Advanced Space Programs Development for the U.S. Air Force in the Ford and Carter administrations (Charter Member of PL911Truth) Click here to see statement

Andreas von Bülow, former State Secretary in the Federal Ministry of Defense, West Germany; former Minister of Research and Technology; former member of the German Parliament (Charter Member of PL911Truth)

Donald R. Bustion, former Assistant Attorney General of Texas

Giulietto Chiesa, Italian member of the European Parliament; vice chairman, Committee on International Trade; member, Committee on Security and Defense (Charter Member of PL911Truth)

Gerard Chevrot, Municipal Councilor, Saint-Sixt, France

Matt Cole, Board of Trustees, Town of Alma; Alma, Colorado, USA

Wolfram Elsner, PhD, former head of the Planning Division of the Ministry of Economic Affairs of the State of Bremen; director of the Bremen State Economic Research Institute; and Bremen State Official for Industrial Defense Conversion, 1989 - 2001 (Charter Member of PL911Truth)

Peter S. Espiefs, Member from Keene, New Hampshire (USA) House of Representatives, 2000-2008; former Judge of the Cheshire Country Probate Court, 1979-1999; former member Keene City Council.

Douglas Nixon Everingham, Member, House of Representatives, Australia, 1967-75 and 1977-84, Minister for Health 1972-75, a Vice-President, World Health Assembly 1975, Parliamentary Adviser, UN delegation. Click here to see statement

Jeanette Fitzsimons, Co-leader of the New Zealand Green Party since 1995, and member of the House of Representatives since 1999. Click here to see statement

Constance Fogal, Canadian Action Party Leader, 2004-2008 (Charter Member of PL911Truth)

Yukihisa Fujita, member of the House of Councilors, National Diet of Japan; Chairman, Special Committee on North Korean Abduction Issue and Related Matters; former member of the House of Representatives (Charter Member of PL911Truth)

Ole Gerstrom, Member of Parliament, Denmark, 1973-1975. Click here to see statement

Bill Goodacre, Smithers, BC, Town Council (12 years); elected Member of the British Columbia (Canada) Legislature, 1996-2001 Click here to see statement

Honorable Art Goodtimes, fourth term County Commissioner for San Miguel, Colorado, USA San Miguel, Colorado, USA Click here to see statement

Senator Mike Gravel, United States Senator (1969 - 1981) (Charter Member of PL911Truth)

Roland Gustafson, Municipal Council, Haninge Municipality, Sweden, 2006-- Click here to see statement



Betty B. Hall, New Hampshire State House of Representatives, 1978-2002, 2004-present School Board Member, Hollis/Brookline School Board (COOP), 2003 Chair, Brookline School Board, 1963-1971.

Dan Hamburg, former Californian member of the US House of Representatives (Charter Member of PL911Truth)

Joel S. Hirschhorn, Senior Staff Member, Congressional Office of Technology Assessment 1978-1990 (Charter Member of PL911Truth) Click here to see statement

Barbara Honegger, former White House Policy Analyst and Special Assistant to the Assistant to President Ronald Reagan (1981 - 1983) (Charter Member of PL911Truth)

Ferdinando Imposimato, elected Italian Senator, 1987-1992, and 1994-1996. Elected to the Chamber of Deputies (Parliament), 1992-1994 Click here to see statement

Tadashi Inuzuka, member of the House of Councilors, National Diet of Japan (Charter Member of PL911Truth)

Karen S. Johnson, former member of the Senate of the State of Arizona, where she was chair of the Family Services Committee (Charter Member of PL911Truth)

Scott Kennedy, former Mayor and City Council Member (12 years), Santa Cruz, California

Senator Prof. Muhammad Ibrahim Khan, member of Pakistan's Senate since 2006; member of Standing committee on Education and Science and Technology; member of Standing Committee on Law, Justice and Human Rights and Parliamentary Affairs; Vice President of Jamaat e Islami (Pakistan) Click here to see statement

Dr. Sergey Ivanovic Kolesnikov, Member of the State Duma of the Federal Assembly (Parliament) of the Russian Federation. He is vice president of the Duma Commitee for Eco Defense. Former Deputy Director of the Russian Academy of Medical Sciences (RAMN).

Paul Lannoye, former Belgian member of the European Parliament, where he was vice chair of the Committee on Energy, Research, and Technology (Charter Member of PL911Truth)

Kira Lukiyanova, Member of the Parliament of the Russian Federation (Duma). Vice-Chairman of the Investment Committee of the Duma.

Jon Paul McClellan, chief election judge (appointed), Eastside Precinct, Orange County, North Carolina; former elected chair of the precinct organization. Click here to see statement

Cynthia McKinney, former Georgian member of the US House of Representatives, where she was a member of the Armed Services Committee and the International Relations Committee (Charter Member of PL911Truth)

Michael Meacher, Minister of the British Parliament; former Minister of the Environment; former Undersecretary for Industry (Charter Member of PL911Truth)

Per Mohn, deputy representative to the Norwegian Parliament from Akershus, 1989–1993


Dr. Andrew J. Moulden, Leader of the Canadian Action Party (Charter Member of PL911Truth)


David Nelson, Hate Crimes Working Group (appointed advisory commission), U.S. Department of Justice, Utah, 1997-2001 Click here to see statement

Marty B. O'Malley, elected Democratic member of Council, Forest Hills, PA Click here to see statement


Walter Pitman, Member of the Canadian House of Commons, 1960-1962, member of the Ontario Legislature, 1967-1971. Order of Canada, Order of Ontario Click here to see statement

Bruce Randall, elected Longmeadow (Massachusetts) Water & Sewer Commissioner, 2002-2003, then Chairman, 2003-2004 Click here to see statement


Barbara Hull Richardson, State of New Hampshire, House of Representatives, 1992- . Vice Chairman, Children and Family Law Committee


Senator Fernando Rossi, member of the Italian Parliament (Senato), 2006-2008 Click here to see statement


Val Scott, founding member of Canada's New Democratic Party; former Trustee and Vice Chairman of North York Board of Education, Ontario, Canada (Charter Member of PL911Truth) Click here to see statement


Prof. David C. Smith, former Town Councillor, Mont Saint Aignan, Normandy, France


Simon C. Smith, elected to Sandwell Metropolitan Borough Council, Great Bridge Electoral Division, United Kingdom

Joel Tyner, third term county legislator for Clinton and Rhinebeck, Dutchess County, New York State; Environmental Committee Chair for Duchess County Legislature.

Gianni Vattimo, member of European Parliament, 1999 - 2004 (Italy); Committee on Citizens' Freedoms and Rights, Justice and Home Affairs; Committee on Employment and Social Affairs; Committee on Culture, Youth, Education, the Media and Sport (Charter Member of PL911Truth)

Jesse Ventura, former Governor of Minnesota (Charter Member of PL911Truth)

Bruno Vézina, elected Mayor of Irlande, Quebec, Canada, 2003

Terry Wachniak, elected to City Council, Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada, from 1986 to

Suzi Wizowaty, Representative for Chittenden 3-5, Vermont Legislature, USA. Click here to see statement

Charles R. Weed, State of New Hampshire House of Representatives, Member for Keene, NH, 2000- . Member, Labor, Industrial and Rehabilitative Services Committee. Professor of Political Science, Keene State College. Click here to see statement

Victor Zvagelsky, Member of the State Duma of the Federal Assembly (Parliament) of the Russian Federation, and the head of the subcommittee of economic relations.
___________________________________________________________

The following legal scholars, judges and attorneys demand an end to the 9/11 cover-up, a new, full and unbiased investigation, and punishment of all guilty parties: -- http://www.l911t.com/

Roy H. Andes.

Former Assistant Attorney General, State of Montana.
Brae Antcliffe.

Barrister, Sydney, Australia.
Thomas Ashton.

Barrister, Melbourne, Australia.
James Edyrn Baker.

Attorney, Washington. Former member of the Board of Governors of the Washington State Bar Association.
Kathleen Margaret Brown.

Attorney, Illinois.

Dennis Cunningham.

Attorney, New York.
Thomas M. Diggins.

Attorney, South Dakota.
Curtis Doebbler.

Professor of Law at An-Najah National University, Visiting Professor, Webster University, Geneva, Switzerland, former Visiting Professor at University of Geneva, Geneva, Switzerland, former Research Fellow of the Hague Academy of International Law.
Constance Fogal.

Former leader, Canadian Action Party. Attorney, Vancouver, Canada.

Stephen Fournier.

Attorney, Connecticut. Former Lecturer in Law, University of Connecticut School of Law Criminal Clinic.

Frank Haddleton
Attorney, Vermont (also licensed to practice in Massachusetts).
Lieutenant Colonel Said Huber.

Attorney and Clerk of the Military Supreme Court of Switzerland.
Joseph J. Huprich.

Attorney, California.
Ferdinando Imposimato.

Honorary President of the Supreme Court of Italy. Former Senior Investigative Judge, Italy. Presided over several terrorism-related cases, including the kidnapping and ultimate assassination of President Aldo Moro, the attempted assassination of Pope John Paul II, other political assassinations and kidnapping cases and several cases against the Mafia. Former Senator who served on the Anti-Mafia Commission in three administrations. Former legal consultant to the United Nations regarding institution of laws to control drug trafficking.

Richard Terence Jeroloman
Attorney (retired), New York.
Barry J.C. Kissin.

Attorney, Maryland.
Maggie Kohls.
Attorney, Illinois.
Bruce Leichty
Attorney, California.
Joseph A. Lopisi
Attorney, Massachusetts.
Douglas Mackenzie.

Attorney, California.
Brian McEvoy.

Attorney, New Hampshire.
Dennis P. McMahon.

Attorney, New York and admitted in Massachusetts.
David G. Mills.

Attorney, Tennessee and Texas.
Robert Moore.

Attorney.
Christopher Pollmann.

Professor of Law, Université Paul Verlaine - Metz, France. Visiting Fellow, Harvard Law School (2001-02)

Ron Rattner.

Attorney (retired), California. Former Chairman of the Board, California Institute of Integral Studies
Simeon A. Sahaydachny.

Attorney in New York State. Formerly Senior Legal Officer on staff of United Nations Commission on International Trade Law (UNCITRAL, Vienna, Austria, 1987 to 1996). During this period, served as secretary of various inter-governmental committees of UN General Assembly and authored working drafts of model laws, international conventions and legal guides relating to international commercial transactions adopted by Commission and recommended by UN General Assembly for use. Senior Fellow, International Law Institute (Washington).
Michael L. Shoen.

Attorney, Arizona (active) and Washington (inactive). Former deputy prosecuting attorney, Washington.
Hal Sisson.

Attorney (retired), Victoria, Canada.
Gary Wenkle Smith.

Attorney, California.
J. Michael Springmann.

J. Michael Springmann was a diplomat in the State Department's Foreign Service, with postings to Germany, India, Saudi Arabia, and the Bureau of Intelligence and Research in Washington, D.C. He was the head of the U.S. consular official in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia . The published author of several articles on national security themes, Mr. Springmann is now an attorney in private practice in the Washington, D.C.area.
Earl Staelin

Trial lawyer. Former Instructor in Law, University of Toledo College of Law.
William Veale.
Bill Veale is a former instructor of Criminal Trial Practice at Boalt Hall School of Law, University of California at Berkeley, with an 11-year teaching career. Retired Chief Assistant Public Defender, Contra Costa County, California 31-year career.
Terrence A. Valko.
Attorney, Pennsylvania. Former instructor, Pennsylvania State University.
Andreas Von Bülow.
Andreas Von Bülow is the former Assistant German Defense Minister (the number two German defense position), former Minister of Research and Technology, and a former member of the German Parliament. He is a practicing attorney in Germany.
Paul Warburton.

Advocate, England.
William A. Watson.

Attorney, Ohio.
Burns H. Weston.

Professor Weston is the Bessie Dutton Murray Distinguished Professor of Law Emeritus and Founding Director and Senior Scholar, Center for Human Rights, The University of Iowa; Fellow, World Academy of Art and Science. Honorary Editor, Board of Editors, American Journal of International Law.

[whatchamacallit]

14. "Nut cases one and all"

Over time it will become harder and harder for the gatekeepers to divide and diminish by character assassination. Truth will out.

[SDuderstadt]

15. Now, if you guys could just find some...

actual evidence, you might win some converts.

Keep digging, dude...you're almost there!

[whatchamacallit]

16. Obviously there are many who doubt the "evidence"

Many who don't have a vested interest in believing any twisted and improbable theory coughed up. You pretend to have the answers, but what you have is a set of answers designed to support your rigid beliefs. There's no reason to envy you.

[SDuderstadt]

17. Y'know, dude...you're as predictable as Pavlov's dog....

All I have to do is ask the triggering question and you start parroting the "truther" lingo:

"vested interest in believing any twisted and improbably theory coughed up" (probably the most ironic "truther" projection ever)
"You pretend to have the answers"
"what you have is a set of answers designed to support your rigid beliefs"

Of course, these responses are proffered to misdirect the reader away from the fact that, nearly 9 years later, the "truth movement" has exactly dick in the way of concrete evidence to prove their goofy "9/11 was an inside job" bullshit.

And, all I have to do to get this "response" is ask: "Where's your proof?".

Keep on digging, dude...you're almost there!

[BeFree]

18. On DU they are a minority

In other words, people who have actually studied the problem with critical thinking skills and with an open mind, think that it could have been an inside job.

And if they ever release the information that is being kept a secret the truth will be known and I have a feeling that it will be shown to have been a case of sitting there letting it happen and then milking it for billions of dollars and the furtherance of empire and PNAC.

[SDuderstadt]

19. "if they ever release the information that is being kept a secret the truth will be known"

Keep digging, BeFree...you're almost there!

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

21. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BeFree]

34. Oh

You like that they keep all these secrets from us?

I think it is a perversion of democracy. For as long as I live, I will keep digging to make my government be responsive. I will never be a "good German".

[SDuderstadt]

35. Stupid question, BeFree...

Keep digging, dude...you're almost there.

[BeFree]

36. speaking of digging

here is a story of someone who keeps digging. Dig it?


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=8117966&mesg_id=8117966

It's about Rachel Maddow, who keeps digging. Thanks for your support!!

[SDuderstadt]

37. BeFree...

I know Rachel Maddow. Rachel Maddow is a friend of mine. Dude, you're no Rachel Maddow.

Actually, I don't know her, but that's a cool line. And, the difference between you and Rachel Maddow is that she's effective, while you're an object of derision here.

Keep digging, dude...you're almost there!

[BeFree]

38. heh

You are a dreamer?

I am an object of derision? And you have proof? Of course you don't.
All you have is total BS like in your your first line.

Sdude wrote:
" I know Rachel Maddow. Rachel Maddow is a friend of mine. Dude, you're no Rachel Maddow."

[SDuderstadt]

39. More of your blatant dishonesty, dude...

What are the words you left out from the very next sentence?

"Actually, I don't know her, but that's a cool line". Why'd you leave that out?

It's precisely for dishonesty like this that accounts for why you're an object of derision here, dude. Don't believe me? Start actually reading the responses to your posts. It's pretty obvious.

[BeFree]

40. Because

It is a cool line, but not the way you used it.
You used the line as a strawman and it was total bullshit, as you then admitted.

Sdude wrote:

"Actually, I don't know her, but that's a cool line".

[SDuderstadt]

43. Dude...

you need to educate yourself on what a strawman is. A strawman is when I take YOUR argument, totally mischaracterize it, then argue with the mischaracterization rather than your actual argument.

Could you please tell me how my joke about knowing Rachel Maddow, drawing from Lloyd Bensten's devastating put-down of Dan Quayle is, in any way, a strawman?

This is why you are an object of derision here, dude.

[BeFree]

44. heh

A strawman is MAKING up bullshit like you did.

You claim:
"This is why you are an object of derision here, dude."

Again... you have proof of this? Or is this just another strawman?

[SDuderstadt]

47. Dude...

Again you demonstrate that you don't know what a strawman is. Although all strawman arguments can be construed as "making up bullshit", all incidences of "making up bullshit" are not strawmen. Do you understand the difference? Do you think it might make sense to actually look up the definition of a strawman before you misapply it?

I stand by my claim that you are an object of derision here by pointing to the responses you draw from just about everyone here.

Keep digging, dude...you're almost there!

[BeFree]

49. eh?

"I stand by my claim that you are an object of derision here by pointing to the responses you draw from just about everyone here."

Who? You are the only one who is derisive. Where is 'everyone'?

Where are their responses here? It's just you, me, and your strawmen.

[SDuderstadt]

51. Dude...

JBerryhill
AzCat
OntheOtherHand
BoloBoffin
WilliamSeger
Flatulo
SidDithers
Greyl
Hack89

Want me to go on?

[BeFree]

52. Yes

keep digging.

I love those guys/girls. It's good to see their names show up here.

[SDuderstadt]

53. "I love those guys/girls"

I forgot Zappaman. Read their posts carefully sometime and you'll find evidence of my claim

In the meantime, where in the world were you going with that reference to the "congressional impeachment effort"? This is the third time I've asked.

[BeFree]

54. You don't remember? Google Kucinich.

Don't know zappaman very well. Knew Zappa, but zappaman is no Zappa.

[SDuderstadt]

55. Dude...

the "congressional impeachment effort" failed, remember? It couldn't even get enough votes in committee.

I am asking you for an example of your digging that has proven effective.. Just one.

Keep digging; dude. You're almost there!

[BeFree]

57. Asking me about digging that has proven effective?

Well, I volunteered in an Obama campaign office in 2008 and together we progressives got Obama elected. That's one.

[SDuderstadt]

59. Dude...

that.s not an example of "digging". When are you going to bring "Bushco" to justice?

Keep digging, dude..you're almost there!

[BeFree]

61. Oh yeah

In 2006 also volunteered in the local party office when bushco was soundly beat.
Helped get a dem elected to congress, too.

Why is it you are questioning my democratic work?
What gives you any right to question me like this?

Are you just flame-baiting me?
That's what I take it as, strawmen and flame-bait.

But since you ask, what have you done to bring bushco to justice?

[SDuderstadt]

70. You haven't identified a strawman from me yet...

probably because you have no idea what a strawman is, dude.

Flamebait? Not really, I just think you're a loose cannon, BeFree. Well-intentioned, but embarrassing in your approach.

What have I done to bring "Bushco" to justice? Remember that book from Bugliosi I told you about? For starters, I've written, called and lobbied all 50 state attorneys general, dude. All while you were "hounding Bushco", dude.

[BeFree]

71. Good for you

So, do you have an electronic copy of your writings you could share with us?

I'm sure it would be an interesting read.

[SDuderstadt]

72. Aha!

The old BeFree "challenge". Sure, dude...just as soon as you prove all of your claims regarding your activities.

Jesus, you're funny, dude.

[BeFree]

41. another 'keep digging' result

"Gitmo prisoners: bushco knew they were innocent" Link to LBN thread.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=post&forum=102&topic_id=4336915&mesg_id=4336915

[SDuderstadt]

45. That's a result from real professionals...

doing work that makes a difference, not objects of derision like yourself patting yourself on the back for "hounding Bushco" from a progressive discussion forum. That was my point.

In the meantime, when I asked you if you have lobbied any state attorneys general to work toward indicting Bush, et al, your dishonest query to me tried to make it appear that I didn't believe that Bush should be indicted, when I have stated here repeatedly that he should. More importantly, you were totally unaware of "The Prosecution of George W Bush for Murder" by Vincent Bugliosi. How do you expect people to take you seriously, when you're oblivious to some of the most critical elements?

Before you managed to get the entire subthread deleted, you were yammering about the "congressional impeachment effort". Where, specifically, were you going with that?

[BeFree]

46. heh

Sdude writes, again:
"..objects of derision like yourself.."

Again... where is your proof of this claim?

[SDuderstadt]

48. Read the majority of responses to your posts...

dude. Eventually, it'll sink in.

Keep digging, dude...you're almost there!

[BeFree]

50. Yep

Everyone of your responses are derisive.

Here we are, you, me and your strawmen.

[spiritual_gunfighter]

73. Why are you being so antaganoistic?

are you looking for a fight because that is what it seems like reading your posts on this thread.

[deconstruct911]

75. On this thread?

or on every thread in the 9 11 forum?

[SDuderstadt]

76. Why, yes, I am trying to be "antaganoistic" here...

And, to think you only had to go back NINETY + days to find it. I must be slipping. I'll try to do better.

Let me quote another member: "no quarter to enemies of reason". I hope that clears things up for you.

[spiritual_gunfighter]

79. Ive never seen your name on DU before

so if you think I was looking for this you are mistaken. It just struck me with the rule changes and with people being a little more understanding of each others opinions, you are going out of your way to start a flame war, and I wish you would stop.

What you write on DU is permanent, whether it came from April or from yesterday, it is reflective of who you are and how you react to people with a different opinion than you.

[SDuderstadt]

80. You've never seen my name on DU before??

dude...look a little more closely...you and I have had "exchanges" before...I also find it interesting that you didn't chide "furthers" or anyone besides me.

[spiritual_gunfighter]

81. I dont remember you at all

Sorry brosephus.

[SDuderstadt]

84. Maybe this will jog your memory, dude...

as I said before, we had an extended exchange, yet now you claim you "don't remember me at all".

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=125&topic_id=242944

[spiritual_gunfighter]

86. Still dont remember you

it's weird that you held onto that exchange for over a year, I'm a little creeped out by it.

[SDuderstadt]

87. I didn't "hold onto it"...

ever heard of the "search function"? Duh.

Please spare me your faux outrage. It sucks to be proven wrong, huh...

[spiritual_gunfighter]

88. It is just a little disturbing

we had one exchange over a year ago that I totally had forgotten about and you are surprised when I dont immediately recall it. I am a little spooked that you held that grudge for a year.

[SDuderstadt]

89. Jesus, dude...

It isn't a "grudge" and I find it hard to believe that you'd "never heard my name on DU before". And, yes, you're right about our words here being "permanent". Looks like you forgot your own advice, dude.

[BeFree]

22. ....

Each time a thread from other parts of DU get dropped down here the proof of their minority status is again proven. Each time the people on those threads show they are wise to what is going on with there being a coverup. Makes me proud to be a DUer!!

[SDuderstadt]

23. "the proof of their minority status is again proven"

WTF? The "proof" is "proven"? Is that different than "unproven proof"?

[BeFree]

24. Minority

And you know it. Nobody believes you.

[SDuderstadt]

25. Do you really believe a majority of people believe...

"9/11 was an inside job"?

Do you have any "proof of your proof"?

[BeFree]

26. Nobody believes you

Most DUers think that there is a coverup by the insiders.

[SDuderstadt]

27. Please prove that, dude....

what, specifically, do "most DUers" think is being covered up? 9/11 being an inside job?

[BeFree]

28. Heh

Now you ask for proof that the insiders are covering up what happened?

Do you see how stupid that sounds?

[SDuderstadt]

29. No, dude...

I'm asking you to prove that a majority of DUers, let alone a majority of americans, believe "9/11 was an inside job", dude.

I think you're 0 for 10 so far tonight.

[BeFree]

30. A poll?

How about a poll? Why don't you post a poll on GD asking if DUers think 9/11 was an inside job?

All we have is moved threads here that a full 90% of DUers thinking it is being covered up by insiders.

Go ahead, you need proof, post a poll.

And you are about 0 out of 100 these last few days.

[SDuderstadt]

31. "All we have is moved threads here that a full 90% of DUers thinking it is being covered up by

insiders"

Really, dude? Are you really claiming @141,000 DUers have indicated this?

[BeFree]

32. Yep

I'd say it is a fine sample of DUers. And it is about 90%.

[SDuderstadt]

33. Dude...

if it were 90%, don't you think there would be an overwhelming cry to leave these things in GD?

You've obviously never done any actual polling.

[Red Dwarf]

42. Well said

“September 11, 2001 seems destined to be the watershed event of our lives and the greatest test for our democracy in our lifetimes. The evidence of government complicity in the lead-up to the events, the failure to respond during the event, and the astounding lack of any meaningful investigation afterwards, as well as the ignoring of evidence turned up by others that renders the official explanation impossible, may signal the end of the American experiment. It has been used to justify all manners of measures to legalize repression at home and as a pretext for behaving as an aggressive empire abroad. Until we demand an independent, honest, and thorough investigation and accountability for those whose action and inaction led to those events and the cover-up, our republic and our Constitution remain in the gravest danger.”

Lt. Col. Shelton Lankford

[Red Dwarf]

56. Add some first responders

Lt. Robert Medairos didn't see any pieces, ABC:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93rTlfo8dZ4&feature=player_embedded


By the way, it`s not our job to provide alternative theories as long as the OCT is basically based
on 1001 myths.

[apocalypsehow]

58. False. Factual evidence has established that what you label the "OCT" is by and large correct.

"Truthers" claim otherwise. It is incumbent upon the persons challenging the huge body of facts contained in the established narrative to provide proof for their claims, not the other way around. Since those facts are pretty much unassailable, those in the "Truther" camp consistently come up short. And they spend a lot of time pouting about it online, I've noticed. But, again, that's the "Truthers" problem - not the rest of us.

[Red Dwarf]

60. This officer is lying?

Please provide one or more links.

Thanks.

[apocalypsehow]

62. Typical "Truther" game playing & deceptive parsing of words.

1. Lt. Medairos states that another officer, an Officer Foutz, who was in the field contacted him and told him he saw a plane hit the Pentagon.

2. Officer Medairos then rushed to the Pentagon to secure the area, since he was the watch commander.

3. Never at any point does Officer Medairos state that there wasn't a plane, or that he has any definitive proof of any other potential destructive cause; simply that due to the destruction he witnessed he couldn't believe it had been a plane. It is said with a tone of incredulity at the amount of damage the plane actually did, not some kind of "Truther" skepticism.

4. Of course he didn't see any pieces - there was a fire raging and general chaos still swirling around the entire area. Once the fire had been quenched and the situation returned to normal, those doing forensic investigation of the crash site found plenty of wreckage/debris/"pieces" from the plane the terrorists used to ram into the Pentagon.

You don't help your cause much when you have to resort to such easily picked-apart silliness - but, then, it's more proof that the "Truther" movement is ironically self-named.

[Red Dwarf]

64. Agreed

He did not say that there was no plane, he just said that there was no debris.

Go on.

[apocalypsehow]

66. There is no need to "go on": you made an easily-disproved assertion, and that part of the discussion

is concluded.

Try again.

[Red Dwarf]

69. That ' s silly.

We are talking facts, not myths.

[apocalypsehow]

63. Oh, and while we're on the subject: Is Officer Foutz lying?

Please provide one or more links.

Thanks.

[Red Dwarf]

65. Thanks

Debunk him.

Provide a serial number of AA77, or whatever.


This ain`t rocket science.

[apocalypsehow]

67. More silly game-playing. We're done here. n/t.

[Red Dwarf]

68. Translates as "I have no single evidence"

QED.

[ablewon]

78. They don't believe in miracles, but...

Those who support the OCT do.

[SDuderstadt]

85. Poor ablewon...

he was just too high-strung.

[MrMickeysMom]

82. You know... this thread has a symmetry to it

Like stair steps in an hour glass... so are the usual "I hate truther" posts of the 911 thread...

Oh yeah?
|
(Ignored)
|
Stop being silly
|
(Ignored)

I wonder what they're saying? Never mind... I've heard it already and that's why they're on "ignore"....

[defendandprotect]

90. Good reminders of those who follow conscience -- and btw common sense . . .