United Airlines tracked a different Flight 93 than the FAA

[Woody Box]

According to radio messages between United Airlines and Flight 93, we get this surprising flight path:

9:22 PIT (Pittsburgh)

9:32 CAK (Canton/Akron)

9:36 CLE (Cleveland)

9:47 TOL (Toledo)

9:51 FWY (Fort Wayne, IN)

10:10 CMI (Champaign, IL)

More here:

http://911woodybox.blogspot.com/2009/09/united-airlines-tracked-different.html

[KDLarsen]

1. Define 'tracked'

The FAA weren't tracking anything post-hijack. All they had was a projected track between UA93's last known position and Washington DC, the presumed target of the hijackers.

[Woody Box]

2. Please read my article first

before instructing me to elaborate.

Thank you.

[KDLarsen]

3. I did. Your article only mentions the FAA twice

1) In the headline.
2) In the conclusion that it doesn't match the FAA tracking.

[Kesha]

4. The last quote is more than sufficient...

"The Flight 93 that was tracked by United Airlines was a different plane than the Flight 93 that was tracked by the FAA."

Your turn.

[KDLarsen]

5. The FAA weren't tracking anything

So of course it's going to be different.

[Kesha]

6. Interesting!

This means that http://www.flightexplorer.com/ is based on pure fiction, not on FAA data, and that no responsible authority
in the US is able to control their own airspace.

Next time I`ll visit the USA, I`d better use transatlantic ships and a car/train.

Inkompetenz-Theorie, die 357.

[SDuderstadt]

7. First of all. prove that it's based upon FAA data...

then prove it existed on 9/11.

[Kesha]

9. You can do better

Einen Moment...

You want me to proof that Flight Explorer`s data is real? The very data which is part of the
official story?

OK:
"Flight Explorer provides its ASD services to over 900 corporate clients and over 7,000 end-user subscriber licenses. Flight Explorer’s corporate customers include 85 percent of the FAA’s Collaborative Decision Making (CDM) participants; 85 percent of North American major and regional airlines (including Northwest, Jet Blue, US Airways, and Continental); 70 percent of the ATA membership; numerous national and international airlines as well as members of DOD’s Civil Reserve Air Fleet (CRAF); the top five cargo carriers (FedEx, UPS, Airborne Express, TNT, and DHL); the 12 largest executive jet operators (including NetJets, Gulfstream, Flight Options and Bombardier); major airports (including Atlanta Hartsfield, Chicago O’Hare, New York Port Authority, LAX, and Miami); and over 250 corporate flight departments, air charter operators, and FBOs.
http://www.flightexplorer.com/about/overview.aspx

It`s even part of 911myths:
http://www.911myths.com/index.php/Flight_Explorer

[SDuderstadt]

11. How does anything you've provided...

"proof" that FE uses FAA data? Do you believe that if an airline wants to know precisely where one of its flights is, it contacts the FAA?

[Kesha]

13. No problem

Flight explorer is refering to the FAA on their website.

If that`s not true, please enlighten us.

In the real world (at least in Europe), ATC knows where a flight is. Please note the remarkable
absence of mid-air collisions in dense airspace.

"Ich mach mir die Welt, wie sie mir gefällt.
Pippi Langstrumpf

[SDuderstadt]

14. Dude...I'm asking you...

How does "referring to the FAA on their website" prove that they use FAA data?

[eomer]

16. From a 2001 news release on their website:

Many online travel agencies and airlines use a irregularly-updated timetable system to inform travelers on where a flight is supposed to be. Flight Explorer combines FAA air traffic control reports, which are updated as often as every 10 seconds, with weather data to show a flight's actual location.

-snip-

DI said Flight Explorer customers already include the Federal Aviation Administration, American Airlines, Cessna, Federal Express, Reno Air, Hertz, Lucent, WorldCom, Raytheon, Swissair, UPS, TRW and airport authorities in more than two dozen states.

http://www.flightexplorer.com/about/readNews.aspx?id=38

BTW, I don't claim it is "proof" but OTOH don't see much reason to question it either.

[OnTheOtherHand]

17. ah, here we go, maybe

ASDI is an acronym for Aircraft Situation Display to Industry. The ASDI data stream is a service made available through the U.S. Department of Transportation's Volpe Transportation Center. In 1991, data on the location of aircraft was made available by the Federal Aviation Administration to the airline industry. The ASDI stream consists of data elements which show the position and flight plans of all aircraft in U.S. and optionally, UK airspace. Elements include the location, altitude, airspeed, destination, estimated time of arrival and tail number or designated identifier of air carrier and general aviation aircraft operating on IFR flight plans within U.S. airspace....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircraft_Situation_Display_to_Industry

I don't specifically know about Flight Explorer, but I tracked down this acronym by Googling on FlightAware.

Now, it seems unlikely to me that ASDI would be able to track a plane when the transponder is turned off, but I've got nothing on that.

[AZCat]

15. No mid-air collisions over Europe, huh?

I don't think the relatives of the people onboard Bashkirian Airlines Flight 2937 and DHL Flight 611 would agree with you.

[KDLarsen]

8. I don't know how FE work

For all I know, it could work by checking for an active flightplan in the FAA system and showing a graphic representation of that. In the case of UA93, someone at the FAA ammended the filed flightplan to set its destination to DCA, giving them a rough estimate of where the airplane might possibly be at any given time.

ETA: http://www.bizjournals.com/washington/stories/2001/09/10/daily34.html would suggest that it reads the flightplan in the system. Note the bit about UA93 having its flightplan changed to point at DCA.

[Kesha]

10. No problem.

Flight Explorer works like that:

http://www.911myths.com/index.php/Image:Feual93static.gif

Edit:
Link doesn`t work. Try the main page:
http://www.911myths.com/index.php/Flight_Explorer

[OnTheOtherHand]

12. fallacy of the excluded middle n/t

[ryan_cats]

25. You should do that

Since we have planes falling out of the sky every day...

[Woody Box]

18. Ahem...

Here's a quote from my article:

Does that mean that the official flight path, with United 93 making a U turn over Cleveland, is faked? No, not at all. The U turn is confirmed multiple times by air traffic control radio messages and personal statements from Cleveland Center controllers

It may be new to you, but Cleveland Center is part of the FAA. So you read the sentence but missed to interpret it properly due to your ignorance. I think I owe you an excuse :sarcasm:

[Woody Box]

19. A pattern emerges

Flight 175 received an ACARS message of Ed Ballinger at 9:23, being in the vicinity of Pittsburgh...

http://911woodybox.blogspot.com/2009/10/flight-175-was-duplicated-threefold.html

[Bolo Boffin]

20. So did it fly north or south of the Citgo? n/t

[Woody Box]

21. This is not funny, dude

if you are able to present a mistake in my interpretation of the ACARS messages, do it.

Otherwise, keep your mouth shut and don't offend the victims of Flight 175 and Flight 77.

Thank you.

Edit: here's the last ACARS message to Flight 175.

DDLXCXA CHIAK CH158R
.CHIAKUA DA 111323/ED
CMD
AN N612UA/GL PIT
- QUCHIYRUA 1UA175 BOSLAX
- MESSAGE FROM CHIDD -
/BEWARE ANY COCKPIT INTROUSION: TWO AIRCAFT IN NY . HIT TRADE C
NTER BUILDS...
CHIDD ED BALLINGER

;09111323 108575 0574

[Bolo Boffin]

22. "North of the Citgo" is officially where you are these days.

Tell me something - ACARS times, are they simply transmission times or actual confirmation of reception?

[Woody Box]

23. Good question

just to be sure whether I understand you right - you think that this 9:23 message to Flight 175 was sent, but not received by the aircraft?

[Bolo Boffin]

24. There you go. n/t

[Woody Box]

27. Okay

take a close look again at the message to UA175:

DDLXCXA CHIAK CH158R
.CHIAKUA DA 111323/ED
CMD
AN N612UA/GL PIT
- QUCHIYRUA 1UA175 BOSLAX
- MESSAGE FROM CHIDD -
/BEWARE ANY COCKPIT INTROUSION: TWO AIRCAFT IN NY . HIT TRADE C
NTER BUILDS...
CHIDD ED BALLINGER

;09111323 108575 0574

Compare that to this message to UA93 which was (according to United Arlines) NOT received by the aircraft and rejected:

CHIAO CHI68R
.CHIAOUA 111420/ROB
CMD
AN 591UA/GL DEC
- QUCHIAOUA 2
DDLXCXA
***UA93 EWRSFO***

And here's the last message to UA93 that was (according to United Airlines) received by the aircraft:

DDLXCXA CHIAK CHI68R
.CHIAKUA 111410/ED
CMD
AN 591UA/GL CMI
- QUCHIAKUA 1UA93 EWRSFO
- MESSAGE FROM CHIDD _
DO NOT DIVERT TO DC AREA
CHIDD ED BALLINGER

;09111411 108575 0707

Comparing these three messages it looks obvious to me that Flight 175 indeed received the last message. A rejected message would look something like this:

DDLXCXA CHIAK CH158R
.CHIAKUA DA 111323/ED
CMD
AN N612UA/GL PIT
- QUCHIYRUA 1
***UA 175 BOSLAX ***

There are other examples for rejected messages in the UAL ACARS log. I will elaborate on my blog soon.

[SDuderstadt]

28. We can hardly wait...

Woody.

I suppose the sarcasm thingy is not really necessary in this case.

[ryan_cats]

26. Now you're concerned with the victims and families ???????

You never were before when you posted yet another of your loony theory's.

Our boy is growing up, sniff...