Skeptics seem to rely on FAITH for Flight 93 buried claim

[hoi_polloi]

Hey I think ATS (Above Top Secret) community has an interesting discussion going on here:

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread477763/pg1

[greyl]

1. I don't know about interesting.

I do note that your headline was debunked in the thread you linked to.

Did you notice?

[SDuderstadt]

2. Of course he or she didn't notice it...

"Truthers" are constantly posting evidence that self-debunks their goofy claims. What else is new?

[Subdivisions]

3. Where is the Shanksville wreckage? Where is the vertical stabilizer? n/t

[SDuderstadt]

4. "Truther Logic"....

when a terrorist slams a jet into the ground at an extremely high speed, we should expect the wreckage to be large, whole pieces of the components.

[Subdivisions]

5. So, care to answer the question? Where is the wreckage?

[Ghost in the Machine]

6. Subdivisions, you'd be better off just hitting yourself in the forehead with a mallet

than engaging some of the posters here. The results will be the same: you'll have a big headache and feel a little dumb for having done it in the first place...

:hi:

[greyl]

63. Oh, leave him alone, he's having fun.

That's all that matters.

[KDLarsen]

7. Suit yourself

http://www.911myths.com/index.php/United_Airlines_Flight_93

Plenty of photographs of the wreckage, most of it taken from the Moussaoui trial.

[Subdivisions]

8. My $99 Kodak 8mp digital camera takes better pictures. I'll ask again...

WHERE IS THE WRECKAGE?

Also, where was the plane reconstructed in order to determine whether or not is was blown up by the bomb http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0412061hijack3.html">Jarrahco announced they had at 9:39:11?

Those images admitted into the Moussaui trial are the shittiest images I've ever seen - this is except for ones you see from old newspapers.

[KDLarsen]

10. Look at those goalposts run...

How widely available were 8mp cameras in 2001? Off the top of my head, you could get 1-2mps in 2002, but I don't know about the situation before that. Either way, I'm not too sure whoever took the photographs, were intending them to be used by Twoofers to disprove that a plane crash had happened. I think it was more a case of showing where the wreckage was found, and what position it was in, before it was collected.

[Subdivisions]

11. Ok then. My conventional 1972 Pentax...

...takes better pictures today than the ones taken in 2001.

[KDLarsen]

12. So effing what?

The photos is still showing you the wreckage you were asking for.

[Subdivisions]

14. No they aren't. They're crap. There's no 757 in those images.

What is in those images is a bunch of junk that has never been shown or proven to be part of Flight 93.

[KDLarsen]

17. Except..

Part of the fuselage with row of windows
http://www.vaed.uscourts.gov/notablecases/moussaoui/exhibits/prosecution/P200061.html

Part of the fuselage bearing the familiar United Airlines stripes
http://www.vaed.uscourts.gov/notablecases/moussaoui/exhibits/prosecution/P200062.html

The Cockpit Voice Recorder
http://www.vaed.uscourts.gov/notablecases/moussaoui/exhibits/prosecution/P200065.html

The Flight Data Recorder
http://www.vaed.uscourts.gov/notablecases/moussaoui/exhibits/prosecution/P200066.html

Miscellanous personal effects from passengers confirmed to be on board United 93
http://www.vaed.uscourts.gov/notablecases/moussaoui/exhibits/prosecution/P200068.html
http://www.vaed.uscourts.gov/notablecases/moussaoui/exhibits/prosecution/P200069.html

[Subdivisions]

18. All junk. None proven to be from Flight 93. n/t

[KDLarsen]

20. Uh-huh

Apart from fact that the CVR and FDR found both contained data from United 93: http://www.ntsb.gov/info/UAL93FDR.pdf

[Subdivisions]

21. Prove the CVR and FDR came from that site. n/t

[KDLarsen]

23. It's on the first page of the FDR report nt

[Subdivisions]

26. Wow. That proves it come from that site and from Flight 93. n/t

[SDuderstadt]

25. See what I mean, KDL?

Fucking unbelievable.

[SDuderstadt]

24. KDL...dude

Don't you know that "Bushco" controlled every aspect of the investigation???? Obviously, the CVR and the FDR were loaded with fake data/input and planted at the scene. And, of course, anyone from the NTSB who stumbled onto any part of the plot was either bribed, co-opted or "silenced".

I'm assuming the sarcasm icon is not needed.

[Subdivisions]

Where is the wreckage, dud? n/t

[SDuderstadt]

29. I'm not going to have this silly argument with you...

if you deny what actually happened, please construct a plausible scenario for us. Please include answers to the following:

1) Where IS UA 93?
2) Why does United Airlines think it's missing?
3) Where are all the passengers from that flight?
4) Why were almost all (if not all) the passengers identified from their DNA?
5) Since the vast majority of the employees of the NTSB are not political appointees but, rather, career civil servants who serve through changes in the political party in power, are you saying that NO employee would blow the whistle on something suspect?
6) Similarly, if you read about the background of all the first responders, it's clear that most of them have no possible connection to "Bushco" other than living in the US at the time. How do you account for the fact that none of them are challenging the "official story"?
7. Are you denying that any wreckage of UA 93 was found at all? If you are, how in the world did "Bushco" plant whatever wreckage was found?
8. Do ANY of the local residents say they witnessed mysterious trucks ANYWHERE near the crash site at ANY point prior to the crash? If not, how the fuck did any wreckage get there, irrespective of what percentage of a 757 was there?
9. If your suspicions are true, why aren't UA employees leading the truth movement?
10. When do you plan to stop embarrassing DU with your goofy theories?

[Subdivisions]

33. Again, where is the wreckage? n/t

[SDuderstadt]

35. Fucking ask UA...

Why you would think anyone here knows precisely where it is escapes me.

Again, I sincerely beg you to quit embarrassing DU with this nonsense.

[Subdivisions]

36. You seem to have all the answers for everything else. So,

where's the wreckage?

[SDuderstadt]

37. Dude...

you seem to deny the reality of the situation because you personally have not seen or handled the wreckage. Why don't you call Wally Miller and ask him about the pieces of wreckage he personally picked up or the pieces of what used to be human beings?

[Subdivisions]

40. What did Wally tell you about the wreckage? n/t

[SDuderstadt]

42. Enough of your goofy "truther" rope-a -dope games, dude...

why don't you fucking Google him and find out? In the meantime, what do you think crashed there?

[Subdivisions]

44. I haven't said that a plane did not crash there. I am asking

where is the wreckage? I know that there were planes. I'm just curious as to how a 60 ton airliner can be reduced to the small pieces seen in that bin. Wally said there was no blood. It's all very curious.

[SDuderstadt]

46. What the fuck do you think...

happens to a 757 when it is deliberately slammed into the ground at high velocity? Do you expect to find large chunks of the aircraft? Park your personal incredulity somewhere else.

[Subdivisions]

48. I'll park my personal incredulity wherever I want, dud. n/t

[SDuderstadt]

50. And we can point and giggle...

at it while it's sitting on blocks in Du's frontyard where it embarrasses thinking folks. Couldn't we donate it to Goodwill, or something?

[Name removed]

51. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SDuderstadt]

54. yeah, I despise...

uncritical thinking and I hate Conspiracy Theories which have little basis in reality.

[Subdivisions]

56. Reality is difficult when all the evidence of a crime has been destroyed or

withheld...

Good day.

[SDuderstadt]

58. Ah, the perennial ''truther'' fallback...

''all the evidence has been destroyed or withheld''.

That would, of course, be obstruction of justice. Why don't you call Eric Holder? I'm sure he'll take your call.

Again, I sincerely beg you to quit embarrassing DU with your nonsense.

[vincent_vega_lives]

65. It was picked up by thousands of volunteers

and 1st responders in PA, examined by the NTSB and FBI and then turned over to UA when the investigation was complete.

I hope portions of it are dedicated to a flight 93 memorial in a 9-11 museum.

perhaps we can write to UA and ask instead of posting pointless questons on this board.

[SDuderstadt]

19. Jesus fucking Christ....

The plane didn't NEED to be reconstructed in order to figure out whether it was blown up by a bomb. This is what frustrates me so much about the "truth movement". Because they have such limited insight into the way the world works, they unnecessarily overcomplicate things beyond recognition and, in the process, feed their personal incredulity. At this point, I want to make it clear that I am not directing this at you personally, Subdivisions.

However, the question remains, why don't we need to "reconstruct" the plane to see whether it was blown up by a bomb or shot down? IF either of those things had, indeed, happened there would be other evidence and indications of it, none of which is there. Just for starters, IF what you suspect had happened, we would be able to tell it from the FDR. Now, I'll anticipate what a "truther" would come back with: "Yeah, but Bushco controlled that!".

Setting aside for a moment that "Bushco" could not possibly control and coordinate every possible detail of a subsequent investigation, we also know that if UA 93 had been blown up by a bomb or shot down, we would expect to see certain things in the debris field. Since the debris field did not lead up to the impact site but, rather, away from it, it isn't necessary to reconstruct the fucking plane.

With all due respect to "truthers", it's fortunate that we don't rely on you to be detectives in police forces across the country, as we'd spend countless months following goofy leads and never getting to the right answer.

[Subdivisions]

22. Buuuulllllll-shit! n/t

[SDuderstadt]

27. You just proved my point, Subdivisions!

Do you honestly deny that if the plane had been shot down or bombed, we would have no evidence of it from the FDR and CVR and that the debris field would not look a certain way? Seriously?

This is why no one here takes you seriously with the possible exception of other "truthers" whose reasoning processes are as challenged as yours.

[Subdivisions]

28. Where is the wreckage, dud? n/t

[SDuderstadt]

30. We made it invisible so...

it would drive "truthers" like you nuts. I personally am paid $500 for every "truther" I drive over the edge.

[KDLarsen]

31. $500?!

I need to talk to my NWO superior, I'm only getting €250 :(

[SDuderstadt]

32. It's a step up for me....

I was only getting $250 for every JFK CT I drove over the edge, although I guess with inflation and everything, I was doing okay.

[Subdivisions]

34. Where is the wreckage? n/t

[KDLarsen]

38. Ask the Coca Cola company

I would imagine that the aluminium was sold for scrap by Uniteds insurers (they take possesion of the wreckage after paying out the insurance sum), and have subsequently been melted down.

[SDuderstadt]

39. Do you mean Coca-Cola is "in on it" too?

I should have known.

[KDLarsen]

41. Indeed

New World Order
New Coke Order

It's eery isn't it?

[SDuderstadt]

43. So, everytime we drink Coke, we're...

financing the NWO?

Hey, I just had a great idea! We should start a restaurant that serves "bilderburgers" and Coke.

[Subdivisions]

45. And you accuse me of embarrassing DU. Pffffft. n/t

[SDuderstadt]

47. We're spoofing you, dude.

I could see how that would be embarrassing...to you.

[Subdivisions]

49. Doesn't embarrass me in the least. It's actually quite entertaining. n/t

[SDuderstadt]

52. I'm glad to see you've acclimated yourself to it ...

I don't think it'll let up anytime soon.

[Subdivisions]

53. It would be out of character if you did let up. n/t

[SDuderstadt]

55. Well, since your goofiness seems to be invincible...

It takes a lot of repetition.

[Subdivisions]

57. Please, continue... n/t

[KDLarsen]

59. *groan*

Bilderburgers

:silly:

[SDuderstadt]

60. I guess I shouldn't invest a lot of time...

on the business plan, huh...

[vincent_vega_lives]

69. I say again

It was picked up by volunteers and 1st responders in PA, examined by the NTSB and FBI and then turned over to UA when the investigation was complete.

I hope portions of it are dedicated to a flight 93 memorial in a 9-11 museum.

perhaps we can write to UA and ask instead of posting pointless questons on this board.

[vincent_vega_lives]

64. It was returned to United AL

ask them.

[greyl]

9. Those questions are more than answered in the OP link.

Where's your evidence?

[Subdivisions]

13. That thread is several pages long...

Please point to the evidence you are referring to there that shows a 757 airplane.

As for my evidence...evidence for what? I simply asked where the wreckage is. So, where is the wreckage? Where is it? Where's the vertical stabilizer? Where are the seat frames? Where is the luggage? Where are the titanium components? Where are the landing gears? Where are the tires?

Where was the 95% of the recovered wreckage reassembled? Sorta like this:

[greyl]

15. Take all the time you need. nt

[Subdivisions]

16. Uh-huh. That's what I thought. n/t

[greyl]

62. I can't help noticing

that your posts in this thread over the past few hours indicate you are more motivated to chat on the Internet than learn all you can about 9/11, or even about the specific questions you ask about 9/11. I can't really fault you for that, but fyi it does temper my motivation to take the time to lay research in your lap.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

61. oh it was a plane made out of paper!

[aldo]

66. The whole OCT is faith based

The true believers believe on faith that the government wouldn't have committed 9/11 on its own people. All the evidence goes the other way, but like the ostrich with its head in the sand, the faith based can't see it.

[vincent_vega_lives]

68. I suppose it is

you have to have faith in the government, academics, media, industry every day.

Every time you eat food regulated by the FDA or USDA you have to have faith.

Every time you fly you have to have faith in the FAA and the airline.

When you read/watch/listen to the news you have to have faith that the facts are checked.

You have to have faith that your teachers didn't lie to you on every litte thing.

[travis80]

67. what's the buried claim? n/t

[travis80]

70. from the other forum: "80% of Flight 93 was in the ground"

is this true?

[gwashington2650]

71. Flight 93 crashed in Pennsylvania

Simple as that.

[travis80]

72. A thread of mine related to Flight 93 was deleted

i sent PM's to the two mods listed asking what rule i broke. i hope someone tells me so i don't do it again.

[lovepg]

73. You asked the wrong question . Ever wonder why there are official story guys

On this site 24 /7? I mean all times of the day and night.
I checked it out like I do on all the forums. You see who the paid hacks are that way.
They will deny it till the cows come home but most of the forums do it. They all have an agenda of some kind.
I have had friends who have done this job. This post will most likely be deleted before you even see it.
Its how it works in America.

[AZCat]

74. It wouldn't have to do with the whole "time zone" thing...

Nahhh, too logical. It's much easier to believe the people with opposing opinions are "paid hacks". :eyes:

[lovepg]

75. Ahh too hard to read entire posts huh AZ.......

I know people who had this gig. Not here but on other forums. Plus my twenty four hours covers all the time zones. Unless where I am there are only 22 hours which would explain alot actually.

[AZCat]

76. I did read the whole post.

I know what you're implying.