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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-12-08 06:25 PM
Original message
9/11 Truth: Justice Will Be Served
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William Seger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-12-08 11:22 PM
Response to Original message
1. Wonderful. A lynch mob
How progressive of you, SLAD.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-08 08:23 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. whatever
Edited on Mon Oct-13-08 08:23 AM by seemslikeadream
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Ohio Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-08 11:44 AM
Response to Original message
3. interesting
While I would acknowledge that a number of the people listed have used 9/11 to commit crimes both here and abroad (and fully support prosecution of those involved in those crimes). I am unaware of any evidence that they actually perpetrated the crime on 9/11.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-08 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Well we do have proof of lying about it
Why would they have to lie?
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Ohio Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-08 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. So it could be used
for them to get us into Iraq and dismantle the Constitution. I think it is clear 9/11 was used for these purposes but that does not constitute evidence any of the people in the video were behind 9/11.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-08 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Why do you think invading Iraq was on the table before 9/11?
Why did georgie ignore the warnings, why were people, like John O'Neil stopped from doing their jobs
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Ohio Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-08 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Well...
Why do you think invading Iraq was on the table before 9/11?"

By "on the table", I assume you mean there were plans (if you mean something else, please tell me). I expect there are plans for pretty much every country, the military should try to be prepared. I see no evidence of involvement by anyone in the video based on this.

"Why did georgie ignore the warnings"

If the US intelligence agencies communicated correctly, this would not have been an issue. This was an issue for loooooong before Bush took office. I see no evidence of involvement by anyone in the video based on this.

"why were people, like John O'Neil stopped from doing their jobs"

hmmm, It is my understanding that because of his personality, he was not very well liked by his superiors and that he was let go from the FBI around 8/2001 supposedly because he had lost/misplaced several items he should not have. I would expect the real reason was because he was disliked. I've worked in government (I was a programmer for the state of Ohio) and have family members (brother was an auditor for the DOD and another brother is a programmer for NJ) that do/did as well. I can say from experience that if you are not well looked upon from on high, you will be ignored, demeaned and fired as soon as you give them a reason. I see no evidence of involvement by anyone in the video based on this.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-08 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Your knowledge of John O'Neil seems quite limited to me
Edited on Mon Oct-13-08 04:19 PM by seemslikeadream
http://wkjo.com/stream/

Who Killed John O'Neill part II
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=125x97281

Who Killed John O'Neill part III
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=125x97987


"Who Killed John O'Neill" video -something new?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=125x92675




Who Killed John O'Neill



Who needs a plane?An Updated MIHOP


Who did 9/11? A question we all want to know answers to.
Meet the CIA of the 21st century. Privatized, independent and hidden from view.

AIG as Money Laundering Inc.

Marsh Crisis Consultancy as Terrorism Inc with Osama bin Laden played by Paul Bremer

Kroll as the privatized CIA Inc.

al-Cokeda as the drug dealers in the flight schools who are later called terrorists in the OCT.


Learn how they all work together.

Learn how they make fortunes on 9/11 with insider trading.

Learn how sophisticated psyops and black ops is.


Learn what the government and the OCTers don't want you to know

Journal:
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/DrDebug
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-08 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. "Learn what the government and the OCTers don't want you to know"
Actually, I WANT you to get this stuff out there so people can see how goofy it is. Do you bother to vet anything? Do you ever fact-check anything? Or, do you just read CT nonsense you like and decide to share it with the world?
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-08 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. chirp chirp
Edited on Mon Oct-13-08 04:26 PM by seemslikeadream
NAME ONE FALSE STATEMENT

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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-08 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. Okay, SLAD
YOU'RE the one that posted the video, so I assume you are vouching for it. Specifically, how did Eliot Spitzer "cover-up" 9/11? How, specifically, did Ralph Eberhart "cover-up" 9/11? How, specifically, did Richard Meyers "cover-up" 9/11? How, specifically, did the Democratic members of the 9/11 Commission "cover-up" 9/11? What, specifically, did they "cover-up"? Do you have proof of a crime committed by anyone other than the hijackers that day? Do you?

I am personally tired of you slandering people simply because you can't exercise critical thinking skills. You want to "ask questions" about 9/11? Be my guest. However, with your broadbrush accusations, you are drawing unwarranted conclusions beased upon virtually no evidence whatsoever. And you wonder why many of us think CT's are goofy.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-08 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Ohio Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-08 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. Yes, I've seen those
The video was, to be honest, awful. It is long on conspiracy and completely absent of any evidence, Just some guy saying things are so.

I have also trudged through the long and incoherent threads on who killed John O'Neil. Again, loads of conspiracy (tons of it have nothing to do with John O'Neil that I can see) and innuendo but no evidence. Sorry, I'm just not making the connections you do.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-08 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #11
12.  Are you channeling SD now? I can only take one chirp at a time
Edited on Mon Oct-13-08 04:33 PM by seemslikeadream
Jerome Hauer (The man who appointed John O'Neill)

Posted by DrDebug on Mon Jun-26-06 11:52 AM

One of the former employees of Kroll, Jerome Hauer, organised a security job for ex-FBI anti- terror chief John O'Neill in the Twin Towers, where he died on September 11th 2001. (1)

Jerry Hauer, one of Washington's most important Bio-Terrorism Consultants has an interesting resume, which included also some odd meetings during the last weeks before September 11th:

In 1983, Hauer joined IBM where he was responsible for the company's Hazardous Materials Response and Crisis Management and Fire Safety programs. Hauer produced a series of hazardous materials training videos that earned him the International Film and TC Critics of New York Bronze award in 1986.
Hauer earned a master's degree with a focus on emergency medical services at Johns Hopkins School.
Later he was member of the John Hopkins Working Group on Civilian Bio Defense (2)

In 1999 he worked at the SAIC's Center for Counterterrorism Technology and Analysis. (3)

"His expertise in crisis management, fire safety and emergency medical response adds additional capabilities to our counterterrorism practice," said David Kay, director of SAIC's CCTA."
But Hauer later left the SAIC, "which is a *huge* federal contractor, and has contracts with the CIA, the FBI and the DOE, as well as many other agencies." (4)

In the same year he started then as Head of the Office of Emergency Management (OEM) for New York City during the 1999 WNV (West Nile Virus) "emergency".
At this time also in contact with OraVax Corporation (now Acambis, partnered with Baxter and Aventis- they created in 1999 by parent companies Hoechst and Rhone-Poulenc.)-makers of the only WNV vaccine, he held a secret meeting with President Clinton and Janet Reno in the Truman Room at the White House a year before the alleged WNV outbreak in New York.
Arrangements were then made to rescue the insolvent OraVax Corporation with a $343 million contract from the CDC for a smallpox vaccine, a $1.8 million contract from the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases for a vaccine against dengue fever, and additional sums to stockpile the WNV vaccine for future "emergencies." (5)

Oravax was later one of the few companies, who also received a huge BioDefense Budget after the anthrax attacks, together with Batelle, DynCorp and a few more.
Hauer was in contact with Batelle, too. His OEM-team helped facilitate tests for Batelle, due to healthcare author Dr.Len Horowitz ( 6 ).
Horowitz accused Hauer in at least 3 personal letters to FBI director Robert Mueller during October 2001 to be one of the "suspects" of the Department of Defense´s "Joint Vaccine Acquisition", which was accelerated for millions of dollars in biowarfare profiteering due to the anthrax mailings.
The other one had been Robert Myers, Bioport´s Chief Operating Officer and anthrax expert William C. Patrick III of Batelle, a close friend of Kanatjan Alibekov alias Ken Alibek who worked in the russian 60s Anthrax-project BIOPreparat and later on the payroll on CIA and Pentagon.
As OEM-chief, Hauer also helped out with the construction of the OEM center known as "the bunker" on an upper floor of 7 World Trade Center, which collapsed on September 11th. (7)

The CIA later confirmed that they had an office inside this building.
Officially B7 started to burn because of a gas tank, which was illegally installed inside the building and obviously hit by debris from the Twin Towers attack.
Hauer worked also for the security firm Kroll O'Gara-Hess & Eisenhardt, who are worldwide famous for Security Hardware, -Systems and -Services.
They are also the official bodyguard contractor for all American presidents since Harry Truman and protect more than 60 international heads of state, and a long list of diplomats around the world.
Kroll had various contracts with the US Army, e.g. during the Somalia War, for Bosnia or Togo for their vehicles or armor engineered equipment.
On August 23rd, 2001 Kroll O'Gara-Hess & Eisenhardt became part of Armor Holdings, which is prime contractor to the U.S. Military for the supply of armoring and blast protection for High Mobility Multi-purpose Wheeled Vehicles, commonly known as HMMWVs. (8, 9)

http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2002/06/12964.shtml

Sources:
1. http://www.nogw.com/9_11.html
2. http://iml.dartmouth.edu/ists/hauer.html
3. http://www.saic.com/news/nov99/news11-30a-99.html
4. http://www.politicsny.com/reports/february02/2-14-02-sheirer.shtml0
5. http://www.mapcruzin.com/rev_death_in_air.htm
6. http://www.tetrahedron.org
7. http://www.politicsny.com/reports/february02/2-14-02-sheirer.shtml
8. http://www.ogara-hess.com/aboutus.htm
9. http://www.armorholdings.com/corpprof/main_frame.htm

Much more at:
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0208/S00068.htm
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Ohio Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-08 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #12
18. I have no idea what you are accusing me of
You ask questions, I answer to the best of my ability. I have done nothing to have you give me any crap yet you do... so I will return the favor. Sorry I don't see shadows where you do. Sorry I want evidence where you allow innuendo to paint your picture. Sorry I know people that were there that day, in the towers (friends), helping as a paramedic (my brother), and an actual witness to the second impact (my mother from the Jersey side of the Hudson, on the roof of the building she worked at the time).

sooo, what do you give me to back up what you say... nothing. Lots of links that none of them are evidence of anything... dead links, CT sites or basic history. To be frank, they are not even good innuendo, I see it as fodder for those that cannot reason. Sorry, it's the chem trails clouding my mind to reason and logic but don't worry, they will drag me off to the FEMA death camps any day now.

Tell you what, you get back to me when you have even one shred of evidence against anyone in the video... and I mean EVIDENCE. Not innuendo, not rumor, not completely made up shit, EVIDENCE.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-08 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. So many generalities so little time.
Come up with one false statement and then get back with me.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-08 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-08 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Ohio Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-08 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. Thanks
Exactly what I would have said.

Allow me to introduce myself, I'm Joe :hi:

I guess your the guy I'm copying. Nice to meet a fellow liberal!
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-08 11:57 PM
Response to Original message
20. The families have been admirable in fighting for truth ----
begging for no more violence following 9/11 --

They've lit the way for us -- we have to support and follow them!

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USofFascism Donating Member (31 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-22-08 09:40 AM
Response to Original message
21. While there's no proof.....
Edited on Wed Oct-22-08 09:41 AM by USofFascism
that Dick Cheney or others were criminally involved with 9/11, neither is there any proof that Bin Laden did it. In fact, there is evidence that Bin Laden has probably been dead for years.

There has to be a money trail for those airliner put options.

The worst part of all this is the cookie cutter mentality. These threads are so predictable. The believers need to be the ones debunking any nonsense. As for the debunkers, the ones with the over the top Randi bend a spoon/Penn and Teller attitudes, they are circumstantial evidence that 9/11 was an inside job. To see such a coordinated effort to "debunk" what they say is a hoax makes no sense.

That there has been extensive disinformation put out by the likes of Rivero, Jones, and many others is also circumstantial evidence that it was an inside job.

One last thing. Whenever a debunker argues that the believer is going to call them a paid agent, that too is circumstantial evidence that there is something fishy going on. Over the top debunking serves no purpose other than to stereotype and drive away real people looking for real answers and sources.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-22-08 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. Over the top debunking
Well ain't that the truth!

:hi:
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USofFascism Donating Member (31 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-22-08 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. Hi and Thanks
I'm hoping DU will let me stay. I'm sorry I made a few posts telling debunkers they were being added to my ignore list. I won't do that again. That was actually a pretty fun thread. I know Sid enjoyed it anyway. He loves the chemtrail threads.

Maybe a group hug between all us believers and debunkers? :grouphug:



And a lot has taken place since then, in which I have done a fairly decent job of internet, amateur sleuthing.

I never cursed. Pretty please DU, let me stay. I completely exposed that forum which must not be named, you know, that joke of a place which devotes itself to tearing down this forum while supporting Ron Paul! That's gotta count for something, no? :shrug:



SocraticTruths

http://allaircraftarenotinvolved.freeforums.org


:dem:
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-22-08 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. Do you know the name John Dean who posted here as Bozosforbush
and came back here 5 different times after he was banned?
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USofFascism Donating Member (31 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-22-08 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. Yes
Edited on Wed Oct-22-08 06:51 PM by USofFascism
I realise I could be gone any moment. I am hopeful that DU will look at my individual case. I'm not a troll.

I think they kicked me out because I kept putting people on ignore. Other than that, one can see I was a full member. I didn't curse at anyone. I've learned a lot since then. People change. I am a true Democrat. I am from the only state which voted for McGovern over Nixon!

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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-22-08 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. Do you know he spread vicious rumors about me and other people here?
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USofFascism Donating Member (31 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-22-08 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. No
Can you provide links?

We are two different people. I didn't do anything like that. I was just kind of unwilling to interact with the debunkers at the time.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-22-08 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. That's OK don't worry about it.
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USofFascism Donating Member (31 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-22-08 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. I know what it's like to by victimized on the internet
Edited on Wed Oct-22-08 07:22 PM by USofFascism
I was cyberstalked by a crowd coming out of the What Really Happened forum. I took screenshots and can prove this. One can check out an alaskafreepress thread which showcased the psy-op only through my humble forum, on the wrh thread.

One can get to caches of threads from that now defunct forum but not to that one specific one I saved. Now why is that?

Why would a nobody like me be so viciously attacked? Could it possibly be because I was one of a bunch of people exposing the right woos left nonsense?


http://allaircraftarenotinvolved.freeforums.org
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USofFascism Donating Member (31 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-22-08 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. Also
I was in the trenches of the major chemtrail forums. I am the only chemmie who has put it all together, from the crazy believer nonsense to actual research on the chemtrails.

Those are being done for two reasons- to block out uv-b rays and to temper the effects of severe weather.

I mention this also because that may explain the attacks.

One other thing, I dug up a lot on this guy Steven Hertzberg who used to be the Director of something called the Election science Institute.

Also, I have invested a lot of time investigating astroturfing.

these are the things I think of when trying to answer why I got smeared so bad.

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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-23-08 07:33 AM
Response to Reply #29
44. How dare he!
You do a good enough job trashing your own reputation to need any help.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-23-08 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #44
54. Whatever
Edited on Thu Oct-23-08 06:30 PM by seemslikeadream
I have a really good memory I'll remember you too, you're in the same league with Bozo as far as I'm concerned
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-23-08 08:50 AM
Response to Reply #29
47. Christ, SLAD....
would you PLEASE get over your persecution complex? It's really getting tiring. Believe it or not, this forum doesn't revolve around you.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-23-08 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #47
55. Whatever
Edited on Thu Oct-23-08 06:39 PM by seemslikeadream
I have a really good memory and will remember you also, down to every single idiotic post you have typed. I can't wait to see them put out there in one long boring post it should be quite interesting,


NOT

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William Seger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-22-08 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. The explicative power of paranoid conspiracism is truly awesome
> "...neither is there any proof that Bin Laden did it."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kqpZGBOKZQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mC3P-Ai-HtU

Want a cookie?

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USofFascism Donating Member (31 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-22-08 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. I'm on dial-up
what are the videos?
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William Seger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-23-08 01:10 AM
Response to Reply #25
38. Sorry, I can't tell you that
That would be circumstantial evidence that you were right all along. And we would have gotten away with it if it weren't for you meddling kids. Have a cookie.

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USofFascism Donating Member (31 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-22-08 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. And
Why does one need to be a paranoid conspiracy theorist to think Bin Laden wasn't behind it. And based on his ties to the CIA, why isn't there the possibility that both Bin Laden and the CIA or some other black op group were in cahoots?

You do realise Bin Laden had a severe kidney problem?
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-23-08 07:34 AM
Response to Reply #27
45. How do you know that bin Laden has a severe kidney problem? n/t
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Ghost in the Machine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-22-08 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #24
34. Bin Laden says he wasn't behind attacks
Bin Laden says he wasn't behind attacks
September 17, 2001 Posted: 11:21 AM EDT (1521 GMT)

DOHA, Qatar (CNN) -- Islamic militant leader Osama bin Laden, the man the United States considers the prime suspect in last week's terrorist attacks on New York and Washington, denied any role Sunday in the actions believed to have killed thousands.

In a statement issued to the Arabic satellite channel Al Jazeera, based in Qatar, bin Laden said, "The U.S. government has consistently blamed me for being behind every occasion its enemies attack it.

"I would like to assure the world that I did not plan the recent attacks, which seems to have been planned by people for personal reasons," bin Laden's statement said.

"I have been living in the Islamic emirate of Afghanistan and following its leaders' rules. The current leader does not allow me to exercise such operations," bin Laden said.

http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/09/16/inv.binladen.denial/index.html



I didn't watch your videos because I'm on dialup right now, but if I had to guess, I would venture to say they're some of the fake Osama videos where he claimed credit in, when, 2004 was it?? It would be kind of hard for a dead man to make a video, wouldn't it?


Fox News: "Bin Laden Already Dead"

Wednesday, December 26, 2001

Usama bin Laden has died a peaceful death due to an untreated lung complication, the Pakistan Observer reported, citing a Taliban leader who allegedly attended the funeral of the Al Qaeda leader.


"The Coalition troops are engaged in a mad search operation but they would never be able to fulfill their cherished goal of getting Usama alive or dead," the source said.

Bin Laden, according to the source, was suffering from a serious lung complication and succumbed to the disease in mid-December, in the vicinity of the Tora Bora mountains. The source claimed that bin Laden was laid to rest honorably in his last abode and his grave was made as per his Wahabi belief.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,41576,00.html

----------------------------------------------------------------------

The Death of bin Ladenism
By AMIR TAHERI
Published: July 11, 2002

Osama bin Laden is dead. The news first came from sources in Afghanistan and Pakistan almost six months ago: the fugitive died in December and was buried in the mountains of southeast Afghanistan. Pakistan's president, Pervez Musharraf, echoed the information.
The remnants of Osama's gang, however, have mostly stayed silent, either to keep Osama's ghost alive or because they have no means of communication.

With an ego the size of Mount Everest, Osama bin Laden would not have, could not have, remained silent for so long if he were still alive. He always liked to take credit even for things he had nothing to do with. Would he remain silent for nine months and not trumpet his own survival?

Even if he is still in the world, bin Ladenism has left for good. Mr. bin Laden was the public face of a brand of politics that committed suicide in New York and Washington on Sept. 11, 2001, killing thousands of innocent people in the process.

What were the key elements of that politics?

The first was a cynical misinterpretation of Islam that began decades ago with such anti-Western ideologues as Maulana Maudoodi of Pakistan and Sayyid Qutb of Egypt. Although Mr. Maudoodi and Mr. Qutb were not serious thinkers, they could at least offer a coherent ideology based on a narrow reading of Islamic texts. Their ideas about Western barbarism and Muslim revival, distilled down to bin Ladenism, became mere slogans designed to incite zealots to murder.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9405EFDE1230F932A25754C0A9649C8B63


Neither of these two reports have ever been refuted or retracted... wanna give it a shot??

:hi:

Ghost

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USofFascism Donating Member (31 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-22-08 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. Thanks
We'll see if any debunkers play fair. I personally believe that as soon as the obvious disinfo like Jones and Rivero are ostracized, then it becomes more difficult not to realise that 9/11 was probably put together by some kind of black op NATO group. Take out the Joos did it or any other nonsense that turns people away, and 9/11 shoots right up there into JFK Assassination territority for credibility with everyone.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/jan/19/afghanistan.oliverburkeman

{excerpt}
This article appeared in the Guardian on Saturday January 19 2002 . It was last updated at 01:30 on January 19 2002.

The president of Pakistan, General Pervez Musharraf, said yesterday he thinks Osama bin Laden has probably died from an untreated kidney disease.

"I think now, frankly, he is dead, for the reason he is a patient, a kidney patient," Gen Musharraf told CNN. Contradicting US intelligence officials who say they do not know if Bin Laden has suffered from kidney problems, he said he knew the al-Qaida leader had taken two dialysis machines into Afghanistan.

"One was specifically for his own personal use. I don't know if he has been getting all that treatment in Afghanistan," Gen Musharraf said......




http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2001/nov/01/afghanistan.terrorism


CIA agent alleged to have met Bin Laden in July
French report claims terrorist leader stayed in Dubai hospital

* Anthony Sampson
* The Guardian,
* Thursday November 1 2001


Two months before September 11 Osama bin Laden flew to Dubai for 10 days for treatment at the American hospital, where he was visited by the local CIA agent, according to the French newspaper Le Figaro.

The disclosures are known to come from French intelligence which is keen to reveal the ambiguous role of the CIA, and to restrain Washington from extending the war to Iraq and elsewhere.

Bin Laden is reported to have arrived in Dubai on July 4 from Quetta in Pakistan with his own personal doctor, nurse and four bodyguards, to be treated in the urology department. While there he was visited by several members of his family and Saudi personalities, and the CIA.

The CIA chief was seen in the lift, on his way to see Bin Laden, and later, it is alleged, boasted to friends about his contact. He was recalled to Washington soon afterwards.

Intelligence sources say that another CIA agent was also present; and that Bin Laden was also visited by Prince Turki al Faisal, then head of Saudi intelligence, who had long had links with the Taliban, and Bin Laden. Soon afterwards Turki resigned, and more recently he has publicly attacked him in an open letter: "You are a rotten seed, like the son of Noah".

The American hospital in Dubai emphatically denied that Bin Laden was a patient there.

Washington last night also denied the story.

Private planes owned by rich princes in the Gulf fly frequently between Quetta and the Emirates, often on luxurious "hunting trips" in territories sympathetic to Bin Laden. Other sources confirm that these hunting trips have provided opportunities for Saudi contacts with the Taliban and terrorists, since they first began in 1994.

Bin Laden has often been reported to be in poor health. Some accounts claim that he is suffering from Hepatitis C, and can expect to live for only two more years.

According to Le Figaro, last year he ordered a mobile dialysis machine to be delivered to his base at Kandahar in Afghanistan.....
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USofFascism Donating Member (31 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-22-08 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. Not trying to up my post count....
Edited on Wed Oct-22-08 11:24 PM by USofFascism
but this is why you have the bullshite shows on the History Channel about the JFK Assassination. When people realise the debunkers are way out of line with that one, it is like a house of cards.

There was also the Prescott Bush thing, some kind of 1934 fascist coup plan.

I don't see how anyone can be so sure 9/11 went down like the official explanation says. Sincere believers show a certain humility, imho. They say, look at this. Or what about that.

Rove put Siegelman in jail, right? Criminals exist, right? How can the debunkers be so sure?


It's that Randi bend a spoon type attitude that doesn't add up. And those types seem to hit every topic on every forum on the net. Myself? I got into chemtrails and election fraud. Mostly chemtrails. There's just so much one person can figure out. That's why the disinfo works. It becomes an information overload along with predictable threads. It's all good for seasoned web surfers, but this has to be a struggle for newbies and fence sitters, imho.
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victordrazen Donating Member (328 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-22-08 11:27 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. It's their very sureness that makes me believe
that they don't believe the OCT at all.
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William Seger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-23-08 01:44 AM
Response to Reply #37
40. That's right
Everything that happens or doesn't happen fits like another piece of the puzzle, huh.
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Ghost in the Machine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-23-08 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #35
49. Welcome to DU...
I've never gotten a coherent response from the OCTers about this...

Why would FOX snooze run this story in 2001, announcing the death of Bush's favorite boogeyman? Was it because they weren't carrying water for the Bush misadministration at the time?

:hi:

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William Seger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-23-08 01:13 AM
Response to Reply #34
39. Okay
So we know he didn't plan the attack.

Want a cookie?
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USofFascism Donating Member (31 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-23-08 02:36 AM
Response to Reply #39
43. Was gonna log out...
dude, offering people cookies doesn't make those credible sources go away. This isn't a game. This is reality. The cookie cutting no longer works. You're just trying to antagonize. If you're so bored that you have nothing to say on credible sources, maybe you should go try to bend a spoon like your hero Randi does it!

You remind me of that Martin Short character where he's caught in lies, and the cigarette ash is going on an on and all he has is- I know that, what makes you think I don't know that.


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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-23-08 07:37 AM
Response to Reply #43
46. "bend a spoon like your hero Randi does it"
You mean, openly declaring it to be a trick of misdirection, not lying about it the way Uri Gellar did?

You know Uri Gellar, the snake-oil salesman, who pretended to bend spoons with his mind and bilked people out of lots and lots of cash? Randi exposed him as a charlatan. It's really funny that you'd smear Randi with spoon-bending, when he's not lying about it at all.
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William Seger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-23-08 09:18 AM
Response to Reply #43
48. Reality?
Dude, maybe you'd do better to discuss a subject you know something about. What are you saying? That Bin Laden is a model citizen who wouldn't lie about a thing like that, so if Bin Laden didn't "plan" the attack, then Cheney must have? So in your "reality," we can safely ignore the mountain of evidence that the 19 hijackers were Islamic extremists and instead focus on whether Cheney used thermite or nanothermite to demolish the towers?

Okay, I'm gonna go make another batch of cookies.

Oh, by the way, James Randi doesn't waste any time at all on conspiracy fantasists. But yes, he is a hero to rationalists because he is one of the most prominent enemies of bullshitters like Uri Geller and Sylvia Browne. Bullshit never did anyone any good.
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Ghost in the Machine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-23-08 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #39
50. The FBI has *no credible evidence* linking Osama bin Laden to 9-11
That's why his WANTED poster on the FBI's website doesn't mention a thing about 9-11...

Can you explain, in a way that makes sense, exactly *why* he wouldn't take credit for the attack if it was in fact him who pulled it off?

"Let's make JIHAD! DEATH TO AMERICA! POW!!" "who me? no, I didn't do that!"

Doesn't make sense, does it?

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William Seger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-23-08 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #34
51. By the way, re "fake Osama videos"
I seem to recall that we discussed the "fat Osama" tape before, so yes, I'm aware of your awesome ability to divine the fakery in anything that upsets your fantasies.

But no, that's not the video I linked to. I linked to a tape of Zawahiri with Bin Laden, talking about the "19 brothers" and the "victory we enjoy today," and also to an al-Jazeera documentary called "The Road to September 11 (Part 2)." I could also link to the "last will and testament" videos of some of the hijackers, but what's the point. Those would all have to be fakes, too, since all smart people know that Cheney planned the attack, huh.

Nope, no evidence here. Let's go watch WTC 7 collapse again.
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Ghost in the Machine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-23-08 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #51
52. You can't see something that's right in your face, can you?
A man who died in 2001 couldn't make a video in 2003 or 2004. It's scientifically, physically and biologically impossible.

Go ahead, try to impress someone here: get FOX or the New York Times to refute/retract their stories. Until then, Osama bin Laden is DEAD, and has been since December 2001, therefore any video of him after that date are either old, or fake. You decide....

I also notice you didn't supply a date of when the videos were supposedly filmed... why's that? Were they filmed sometime *after* December 2001?


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William Seger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-23-08 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #52
57. Uh, yes, I can see something that's right in front of my face -- like the videos
A man who made videos in 2003 and 2005 couldn't have died in 2001. It's scientifically, physically and biologically impossible.

A man who died in 2001 couldn't have died again in 2006, but there were the same kind of second-hand stories circulating again then. Reputable sources like the New York Time reported the rumors, but also reported that they couldn't be confirmed: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/24/world/middleeast/24binladen.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

So, what exactly am I not seeing? Your brilliant video analysis? I recall that you bought into the idea that the "fat Osama" tape must be fake because it just didn't look like him. Not only was it a fake, but one that was incredibly inept, huh. Except that when corrected for the bad PAL-to-NTSC conversion, it really did look like him. Do you have some actual reason to think the other videos are fake, other than your unsubstantiated belief that he died in 2001?
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USofFascism Donating Member (31 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-23-08 02:01 AM
Response to Original message
41. SeemsLikeADream: Please Read
I looked into your earlier question about that person. I don't have enough post to email you. I want to talk it out. Nothing wierd. Maybe I should just go for it and speak here now in the open, so the mods, the whole world can see I am an open book. And I have had personal contact with Bozo, Brad Friedman, Tinoire, and many others. If I hadn't settled on joining the chemtrail fray, I'd probably be a friend of yours here. I'd be a completely different person, etc.. Please you and everyone, please hear me out. My eyes are welling up. I, too, have put a lot of energy into blogging.

I found a few of those posts. I understand now.

Here is my story. Sorry to derail a thread, not my intention, but I have info. I have info for anyone who is sincere and oipen-minded. I am a real person from Massachusetts. I started later than yourself. I see you began here in 2000 or 2001. I didn't hit the internet until late 2005. I was at HuffingtonPost. That's a big place. There are no threads. It's daily news with comments. So if you wanted a thread, you'd have to bookmark the stories. In short, HuffPost is not like any of these traditional forums we are used to.

At HuffPo, there were government trolls all over the place, or at the least, freepers. You had to be there to understand why many of us started to talk about how it seemed they were paid to post.

Then I stumbled across CitizenSpook. You see, at HuffPo I got into the Plamegate thing right when it was finally emerging as a major story. Bozo was there. I saw him tear apart trolls. You see, he may have made mistakes along the way, but for a guy like that to have developed any credibility, he did have some successes. The Rob Pelletier story- the N.C. Beach or whatever the name was. That was legit. But I am getting ahead.

Listen, I was a novice. I was a career student who never hit the blogs til 2005 at Huffington. I nailed my first troll. His name was JonQuixote. I found a picture of him at a seedy chatline called the treehouse, I think. He had all the appearance of being a paid poster.

I just read some threads. How you have a good memory. Mine is coming back real good right now. There was a BradGates2 or someone. There was BJClinton or someone who had some annoying line every day of we're driving the bus. It was kind of the same annoying feeling one gets in this dungeon if they look through the archives. I am not looking for trouble, but the net is what it is.

But anyway, I nailed JonQuixote, one of the most mean-spirited republicans one could ever come across. I found his photo. Some guy named I think JamesR, apologies for any mistakes I make, JamesR took the photo and ran with it. It was my first time using google to bust someone or to find info on them that obviously they wouldn't want to see in public.

That is the essecnce of the troll bust.

Anyway, I was getting fed up with the HuffPo format. Here today, gone tomorrow with the threads.

I went to Citizenspook. It would later turn out that he was a right woos left fake. But the crux is that John was there. He was John the unix guy, something like that. I was Vincent Gambini. I also used Wassabi a bit for a name. At that point I was a nobody. I didn't even know about sock puppets or trolls or anything. At HuffPo my id was, still is if I go back, broccolli, with the misspelling. But I am scared to say for sure, because trolls would alter a letter or two and make the liberals look bad. That was when I started to see all the games going on. This dungeon is paradise compared to HuffPo back in 2005-06.

I go to Citizenspook. He had long wordy, kind of entertaining stories on Fitzmas. But Bozoz was drilling him. And tthat's when I first heard of that fabled crusader stuff. To this day I never really looked into it, but the general gist was that they were the fake neo-nazis. They were the types who make it difficult to criticize Israeli policy without looking bad, even though common sense tells us Israel has been nasty towards the Palestinians. Not that Israel doesn't deserve its own place or that Israel isn't persecuted. Uhm, there is anti-semitism. There was the vicious holocaust. Most Israelis are beautiful people as are all people anywhere. it is the govts. that screw us over, not people or cultures.

But anyway, at that point I had been through all the traditional web surfing. I saw the prison planet, rense, i would read the guardian, irish times. I'd read sports. i eventually saw through spooky because of Bozos. I was also intrigued by his professional look as being a troll buster. that was when I stumbled across the Fintan Dunne guy and his internet fakes stuff. On the surface, the Dunne article made complete sense. I asked Bozos at Citizenspooks about it, about Fintan, he told me the guy was a nut and everyone knew it. I put that to the back of my mind. It would be a year or whatever later that I would meat Bozo again, but I'll get to that later.

I went to Dunne's. But soon I saw they weren't adding up. All the fakes were from left wing sources. When I first got there, he seemed like a lefty. I am a pure lefty. I lived in Ireland. I was shocked about a month into it how they were all denying global warming. That made no sense. How many lefties are global warming deniers? Few I bet.

Plus, I started to ask Fintan wtf with the fakes list as in where's the sources and proof, the explanations, etc. The bullshite response was always listen to his audios. I never did. I couldn't be bothered. I actually found that place awfully dull. There were a few good posters who would show up once in a while outing Dunne. That was fun. It got me thinking. I still had Bozos opinion in the back of my head about it.

At that point I was fully aware of chemtrails and watching the skies like a hawk. I saw so many anomalies. I just basically witnessed chemtrails. Most folks are elsewhere and only see the white outs. i was seeing the actual whole process. How they weren't commercial aircraft, how they were doing strange maneuvers, how the crap so efficiently would spread out into a total fake overcast.

I was at Dunne's jpretty much to just be on the chemtrail thread. there's one there. It's got tons of page views. i wasn't too good as a chemmie then. i used a lot of crap sources. My writing wasn't solid. I am fully aware how difficult it is to write about chemtrails.

A few usernames popped out. There was this guy Ormond {Dan Butler} a real life friend of Navari, Steven hertzberg of the Election Science Institute. Navari and the others treated me the way you get treated here. the antagonism. The unrelenting putdowns. Ormond was actually pro-chemtrail as in that they were for real. he posted how he met Carnicom who was by chance fixing computers.

You know, Hertzberg would later start Ron Paul websites and Ormond was right there with him. These were no lefties. They were libertarians at best, but in reality they were rightwingers. And for the amount of time they were on the net, I can only believe now that it was part of their occupations.

I became a web surfer. i ended up with high speed internet. I decided to find a way out of that pit called BreakForNews. I decided to go to Chemtrail Centrail.

Within a week, I was already busting who i now realise is the classic chemmie turned debunker troll named Yaak/Cydoniaquest. His name I think was olduser. he even came out and admitted that he would get banned and just keep coming back. For anyone who has followed some of this chemtrail forum history, then this all rings true.

Anyway, this guy from Taiwan, may41970, by chance he joined CTC a day after me. In hindsight, that appears to me to be a sign that I was already on the radar system for a paid network of fakes. I can only assume that Fintan Dunne was giving out my info. I doubt HuffingtonPost was involved. They may be shallow at Huffington, but I doubt they keep an eye out for potential rebel blogger types. But it was strange. The netvocates story emerged. I was fully into figuring out fakes. i realised Fintan was a dead-end. i was making a fresh start. But then i saw how sad Chemtrail Central was. it was full of crazy believers and nasty debunkers. I met one nice real lady named Crystal Rose, but that was about it. there's a guy named Man&Nature. He made some good posts.

But here's the deal. I want to wrap this up. Within one month I got an email from swampgas telling me that CTC was "Daarpa infested," that the wolves had taken over the henhouse.

Before I knew it, I was the most prolific chemtrail writer on the internet. i still hadn't honed the craft, but I was sincere and just wanted to know wtf was going on in the sky.

Gastronamus grew. I met Lophofo who is now a real friend. he is an expert on HAARP. Also Man&Nature showed up. But the problem is that Gastro and Megasprayer with Chem11 and Deborah/Footsoldier, this Wayne Hall (Halva}, they all turned out to be fakes. And I don't smear people. I have an academic background, so I try to back my stuff up with good sources and proof.

Later on, oh wow, I would uncover a major paid troll by the name of Louis Aubuchont, who was a cornerstone of Will Thomas' chemtrails book. Uhm, after I got shit on by the old moderator crew at Gastro, I arrived here as SocraticTruths. i hope people can now see why I wrote as tough as the way I did. the script calls for us to be emotional. They want everything to be classified as us versus them. Well, the crew here knew which buttons of mine to push, and DU, in hindsight, I don't blame them for giving me the yankerooni, tho' I hope somehow I can be a rare exception to their rule of no return. I mean, I've seen a lot worse from folks, yet they are still here. And I'm not dissing any mods here. In my defense, the only dirt there is on DU is that they have rightwing lawyers as user registrants or something like that. I got that info from Bozos. But, I mean, if trolls end up here, that's not DU's fault. Now as for other forums, I have nailed them. i have uncovered an insidious network of fakes. i am trying to get this info out to the masses, but it is tough to do so. I'm not gonna give up, of course, never.

Then I went to a freeper dive called DebateBothSides, wow what an awful disgusting place with next to zero moderatiomn. The onle rules are no attack threads, and no mentioning of family members. But call anyone a kike, fag, n word, attack them anywhere but the first post, and it's ok.


I went a bit nutty and exposed all the fake believers I could. Eventually they drove me away. I started my humble forum back in May, 2007. This guy may41970, who I now DO NOT trust became my moderator. Somehow the place developed a niche.

Anyuay, trying to wrap this up. May41970m was at the WRH unofficial forum, really official since Rivero was linking to it, that place was housing Rivero's letters.

May41970 started a thread on that forum in which this poster Ender was making threats against Jewish people. May41970 called him out for cointelpro. It's about a ten page thread now. I went into it. i researched rivero and found out all about his fascist leanings and ties to holocaust denial. I saw how he was a freeper. There's tons of crap on him. Someone could say anything they want about him, and there would be 0% chance of being sued for slander!

By the end of 2007, I was cyberstalked. fake socrates were created. Aubuchont, the govt. troll went apeshit on me. It's an extensive, ugly episode. But now that I think of it, I survived and none of them have.

And when people are attacked so much, it kind of gives us credibility.

Bozos should never have included you as being a fake nazi freeper. those people are for real. it is called right woos left. But anyway, forget exactly when, back in 2007, Hertzberg got exposed as being Navari at BreakForNews. i investigated that. Then I started to look into Bev Harris and Brad Friedman because they were two of the primary targets for Fintan Dunne.

I ended up at BradBlog. Bozos introduced myself to Brad. we were emailing a lot. Brad Friedman was emailing with me plenty. i went through DU threads here where Bev Harris was absolutely trashed and as far as one can see, based on little evidence.

I know people love Andy Stephenson, but that guy was knee-deep in spookery. Same with Ben Burch. Same with the Randi Rhodes Message Board. And I know this may pain you, but so was Tinoire of the forum that shall not be named.

And I don't make claims out of nowhere. i back it up with proof. There are photos of Tinoire posing with the neocon Wolfowitz. She was endorsing Ron paul. She was the epitome of right woos left. She is in cahoots with Mike Rivero. She is in cahoots with Velvet Revolution.

How bout people look into Velvet Revolution and Brett kimberlin.


You see, SeemsLikeADream and everyone else, I am the real deal, and that's why I have been attacked so much. I am no longer friends with either Bozo or Brad. There was some crazy shenanigans going on with his moderator Agent99. Brad offered me a guest blog on weather mitigation but never deleivered. he didn't do one story on Hertzberg. When Dredd asked him to cover the hacker GOP guy from San Diego, Brad was real slow on that one too.

But to wrap it up, people can check out my stuff at my forum to see my threads. I did my best. I am a real person who is 100% certain that chemtrails are for real.

That's my story. And it felt damn good to get it off my chest.

Bozos was my gatekeeper. that's how I view him now. Same with Brad. I can fall for some things at first, but eventually if someone is a conman, I figure it out. Bozos can be one of the meanest people on the earth. He even left posts at my place calling me schizophrenic. You know, take away that Rob Pelletier thing, and what has he ever really exposed? Tom Flocco? It makes me think Bozos was given the Pelletier story. It's tough to really know what exactly was going on. but yeah, I started to have the final fall-out with him after telling him I was thinking Brad was part of some double strawman strategy resulting in enigmas. I went out of my way to stick up for Friedman.

I don't trust him one bit. I will always think there was something very crazy about Hertzberg and the internet. i will always remember how Brad and Bozos never took it up a notch. I'll remember how Brad never gave me the guest blog. I'll remember how his moderator is so wrong.

Some guy Phil was saying he could influence the weather with his mind. I chewed him out for that, nicely, but in a wtf way. Agent99 drilled me. When my cyberstalkers showed up at BradBlog, Agent99 did nothing to protect me. Finally, when a poster named Nunyabiz was chewing me out for simply telling him that his source saying 80,000 US soldiers were dead from Iraq was shady, I got chewed out by Agent99. She then chewed Brad out too after he stood up for my academic approach. Yes, there can be good debunking. The bottom line was Brad let her get away with it. There's something very shady about the BradBlog.

The best way they throw people off? Have your mod be called Agent99 and have a nutjob like Fintan Dunne call him and Bev CIA fakes or whatnot. It's like with the chemtrails bluff where Minnis is like those are contrails, there's just more air traffic. Oh yeah, we're not spooks because the tinfoil nutjob says we are. Bradblog is tinfoil wooing the sensible.

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USofFascism Donating Member (31 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-23-08 02:24 AM
Response to Reply #41
42. Some post thoughts then some shut eye.
Salvorhardin is buddies with Bozos or was. he is a pro debunker type running a neural gourmet website.

I ended up concluding that Brad and Fintan are, and perhaps I have coined this phrase, not sure, they are double strawmen, they cancel each other out and create an enigma. Sure, Fintan has zippo credibility, but if you look at Brad, does he have any either at this point? Clint Curtis? Brett Kimberlin??

Finally, Bozos told me that in an interview with Leo Lincourt {salvorhardin}, Lindeman admitted to being a Republican. But when I asked Mark, he's saying he voted for Nader and that he was anti-contras and not a Republican. I have no fears. Those guys know my real name, but I don't care. There comes a point in our lives when we have to stand tall and do the right thing.

Now, I am not backing off from thinking Lindeman is still an apologist for election fraud. But perhaps he is doing it unwittingly. Brad? Yikes. Just look at him, that clean cut look, check out his moderator and posters, look into Kimberlin and Curtis, yikes. But, oh well, best to get the shut-eye now while I am still awake. {that last sentence was an attempt at humour.}


socrates


http://allaircraftarenotinvolved.freeforums.org
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DoNotLie Donating Member (5 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-23-08 06:04 PM
Response to Original message
53. This Is A Rigged Forum
Ooh, sorry I confused the anal retentive Randi with Uri Gellar. But let's make one thing clear. This forum is rigged. I can only think of a few of these debunkers who do not break the rules. I've seen them cursing. I see a lot of their posts only get scrubbed. But they don't get tombstoned.

Maybe it is one of the mods here who has infiltrated. At the Randi Rhodes Message Board, it has become as clear as day how corrupt that place is.

Now if the ptb's here could show me even an ounce of respect and show where I broke the rules to be originally banned, then that would be nice. But they don't do that. Then they allow plenty of other people to goad and antagonize, to be trolls, yet those usernames never get in any trouble. The question becomes, is DU rotten from the top, or is there a bad egg or a few of them who have infiltrated into the chain of command?

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Ohio Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-23-08 07:33 PM
Response to Reply #53
56. DU seems fine to me.
:shrug:
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DoNotLie Donating Member (5 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-23-08 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #56
58. They should show.....
why I was banned as SocraticTruths, and why they won't consider me for reinstatement. Then they need to show that the reason used to banned me is being applied evenly across the board. This is not too much to ask.

I am the #1 chemtrail poster on the internet. I deserve that much.



http://allaircraftarenotinvolved.freeforums.org
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Ohio Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-23-08 11:46 PM
Response to Reply #58
59. Sorry
That is not the way it works on any forum I've ever heard of. You are however, perfectly free to build your own board and say whatever you wish. Thats one of the great things about the internet, everyone can be the king of their own domain.

Personally, I think this is one of the best moderated boards on the internet. The volunteers are very dedicated and the admins responsive. I suggest you write them and ask them your question and play in their yard accordingly.
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uwilllosedu Donating Member (13 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-24-08 05:29 AM
Response to Reply #59
60. Who Is really in charge? Is it Burch, Kimberlin, and Rivero?
I originally wrote this letter to a political science professor, but I felt it would also be appropriate for you and the other Burchites.




Hey Mark, maybe a solution is for you to stay off of their threads. You could start a new thread of your own linking to their points. I think these folks wish to be able to have a conversation, do research together without your input. Maybe that can be the solution?

Picture yourself having a political science get together after a seminar, in the student union. But then some people at the next table, they are actually true activists who keep butting into your conversation. Of course, they have the right to speak in any public place. So perhaps you could always move across the room. But what if they keep following you? Do you have the right to have them removed from the public building? Of course not.

Don't you see? These people don't want your input. just like you wouldn't want those on the right side of history telling your students that they should get their heads out of the status quo and get to protesting. That is what is going on in this forum.

Now I want to clarify what I said about perhaps Hertzberg not being a big deal. I meant that in the big scheme of things, he has been merely one disinformation astroturfer on the internet. He is merely a part of the puzzle.

Now why would Brad cover this story up, especially when it was Fintan Dunne who was throwing him under the bus? Fintan also called Bev Harris a 9/11 CIA rat. Steven Hertzberg was a full member of a forum calling Bev Harris a 9/11 CIA rat.

Then there is Brett Kimberlin. He apparently bankrolls RawStory and BradBlog. Where did he get his money? How does a convicted bomber get characterized as being a political prisoner by Larisa Alexandrovna of Raw Story?

Then there is Ben Burch. Did he really do something wrong and had to leave? Did you ever google his name? Did you know he was all over wikipedia, or that he in fact has had as strange an internet presence as anyone?

And what about his close friend Andy Stephenson with the ties to Mike Vreeland?

And how does David Benjamin Burch being a member of the jref randi debunking forum not have something major to do with the structure of the 9/11 forum here?

We can keep going.

Why does an alleged left of center website run by a former member here have close ties to disinformation agent Michael Rivero AND the Velvet Revolution?

You want more?

That person is also tied in with a Jeff Wells who runs his own disinformation pit. He voted yes in a racist poll here a while back. You want more?

You say I don't know what the word progressive means. Who's more of a progressive sir, Howard Zinn or Howard Dean? Ann Richards or Nancy Pelosi?


Have you ever heard of cointelpro? Have you ever heard of right woos left? Have you ever heard of a man named Willis Carto? Did you know that Markos Zuniga was a big fan of Ronald Reagan and that he very well might be a full member of the CIA?

Do you think Harry Reid is a progressive?


All indications are that Ben Burch is a kingpin in promoting disinformation all over the internet. True progressives have been getting the squeeze.

One thought I am having. What if a large amount of anonymous people decided that the student unions were being unduly monopolized by the historically conservative, political science departments? Could they not as students or in this case, if they had access to computers, could they not overtake any forum that decided to give the squeeze to true progressives?

I was reading an article on the anonymous guy from Boston. It was quite interesting. People asked him why he would keep going after the Church of Scientology, what with their huge bankroll to fund lawsuits and whatnot. He said, to paraphrase, that he didn't care, that the more they pushed their cult on victims, that the more they pushed him and the other anonymous folks, that he felt even more determined to fight back and win.

That's the same feeling I have. The more the Hertzbergs, Burches, Riveros and Tinoires of the world have attacked me, the more I have been determined to expose them. Same thing with the Brad Kimberlin Larisa cover up. Now, did you notice how once you showed me a bit of love, I returned the offer?

This is my declaration that the fight is on for the hearts and minds of the blogosphere. I will not quit until the true nature of astroturfing has been 100% exposed. It is the least that can be done for the newbies and fence-sitters.


the people united will never be defeated
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Ohio Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-24-08 08:51 AM
Response to Reply #60
61. umm, yeah
WTF is a "Burchites"?
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ThisIsWhy Donating Member (5 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-24-08 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #61
62. search engine
David Benjamin burch. Gotta go. some places don't allow freedom of speech and association.
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ThisIsWhy Donating Member (5 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-24-08 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #62
63. Uhm,
I should have said most places, not some.

:hi:
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Ohio Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-24-08 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #62
64. ahhh, now I see
I did a search in google on "David Benjamin Burch" and what an evil bastard he is:

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data2/floridastatecases/app/app1_8_2002/00-3801.pdf

Doesn't want to pay fees not announced at his sentencing. I can see why you compared me to him... ummm, no I don't, WTF are you talking about?

oh, and I hate to be the one to tell you this but you don't seem to understand freedom of speech. It does not apply to a private forum, you either follow the rules or get banned.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-25-08 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #58
65. Why in the world would someone brag about being "the # 1 chentrail poster on the internet"?
n/t
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-25-08 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #65
66. Yeah, I thought that was pretty funny too...
I'm sorry he's gone (again) tho.

Cheers.

Sid
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