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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-05-08 09:34 PM
Original message
Is the government compiling a secret list of citizens to detain under martial law?

ARE YOU ON THE LIST? The federal government has been developing a highly classified plan that will override the Constitution in the event of a major terrorist attack (Photo: Illustration by Brett Ryder)



http://www.radaronline.com/from-the-magazine/2008/05/government_surveillance_homeland_security_main_core_01-print.php


........

In July 2007 and again last August, Representative Peter DeFazio, a Democrat from Oregon and a senior member of the House Homeland Security Committee, sought access to the "classified annexes" of the Bush administration's Continuity of Government program. DeFazio's interest was prompted by Homeland Security Presidential Directive 20 (also known as NSPD-51), issued in May 2007, which reserves for the executive branch the sole authority to decide what constitutes a national emergency and to determine when the emergency is over. DeFazio found this unnerving.

But he and other leaders of the Homeland Security Committee, including Chairman Bennie Thompson, a Mississippi Democrat, were denied a review of the Continuity of Government classified annexes. To this day, their calls for disclosure have been ignored by the White House. In a press release issued last August, DeFazio went public with his concerns that the NSPD-51 Continuity of Government plans are "extra-constitutional or unconstitutional." Around the same time, he told the Oregonian: "Maybe the people who think there's a conspiracy out there are right."

None of the leading presidential candidates have been asked the question, "As president, will you continue aggressive domestic surveillance programs in the vein of the Bush administration?"Congress itself has recently widened the path for both extra-constitutional detentions by the White House and the domestic use of military force during a national emergency. The Military Commissions Act of 2006 effectively suspended habeas corpus and freed up the executive branch to designate any American citizen an "enemy combatant" forfeiting all privileges accorded under the Bill of Rights. The John Warner National Defense Authorization Act, also passed in 2006, included a last-minute rider titled "Use of the Armed Forces in Major Public Emergencies," which allowed the deployment of U.S. military units not just to put down domestic insurrections—as permitted under posse comitatus and the Insurrection Act of 1807—but also to deal with a wide range of calamities, including "natural disaster, epidemic, or other serious public health emergency, terrorist attack, or incident."

More troubling, in 2002, Congress authorized funding for the U.S. Northern Command, or NORTHCOM, which, according to Washington Post military intelligence expert William Arkin, "allows for emergency military operations in the United States without civilian supervision or control."

"We are at the edge of a cliff and we're about to fall off," says constitutional lawyer and former Reagan administration official Bruce Fein. "To a national emergency planner, everybody looks like a danger to stability. There's no doubt that Congress would have the authority to denounce all this—for example, to refuse to appropriate money for the preparation of a list of U.S. citizens to be detained in the event of martial law. But Congress is the invertebrate branch. They say, 'We have to be cautious.' The same old crap you associate with cowards. None of this will change under a Democratic administration, unless you have exceptional statesmanship and the courage to stand up and say, 'You know, democracies accept certain risks that tyrannies do not.'"


MORE.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-05-08 09:55 PM
Response to Original message
1. For the love of God, SLAD...
Is there anything so goofy that even YOU won't promote it? Do yourself a favor and research the numerous RW organizations that swore up and down that Clinton was going to declare "marshall law" (I'm not kidding...they actually spelled it like that) and suspend the elections. It's was stupid (and obviously untrue) then and its equally stupid and obviously untrue now. I've also noticed that you use fear as a motivator a lot. Isn't that a complaint you have about the Bush administration. Just askin'.
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Ghost in the Machine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-05-08 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Do you have anything relevant (or intelligent) to add to the conversation?
Or do you just like stalking and harrassing a lady? Take your tired ass blithering and run it on someone else, little boy... it's beyond stale, it has mold growing on it...

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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-05-08 10:51 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Sowing the seeds of love
Edited on Thu Jun-05-08 10:53 PM by seemslikeadream



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_DfPNU-oM4

High time we made a stand and shook up the views of the common man
And the lovetrain rides from coast to coast
D.j.s the man we love the most
Could you be, could you be squeaky clean
And smash any hope of democracry ?
As the headline says youre free to choose
There's egg on your face and mud on your shoes
One of these days they're gonna call it the blues

And anything is possible when youre sowing the seeds of love
Anything is possible - sowing the seeds of love

I spy tears in their eyes
They look to the skies for some kind of divine intervention
Food goes to waste !
So nice to eat, so nice to taste
Politician grannie with your high ideals
Have you no idea how the majority feels ?
So without love and a promise land
Were fools to the rules of a goverment plan
Kick out the style ! bring back the jam !

Anything...
Sowing the seeds
The birds and the bees
My girlfriend and me in love

Feel the pain
Talk about it
If youre a worried man - then shout about it
Open hearts - feel about it
Open minds - think about it
Everyone - read about it
Everyone - scream about it !
Everyone
Everyone - read about it, read about it
Read in the books in the crannies and the nooks there are books to read

Time to eat all your words
Swallow your pride
Open your eyes

High time we made a stand and shook up the views of the common man
And the lovetrain rides from coast to coast
Every minute of every hour - I love a sunflower
And I believe in lovepower, love power, lovepower !!!

Sowing the seeds
An end to need
And the politics of greed
With love

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Ghost in the Machine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-05-08 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. I just totally stole that graphic!
peace within, peace between, peace among...




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balantz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-06-08 12:08 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. That was nice, thank you.
Even in the midst of pain and suffering Love is all

There

Is

Love
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-06-08 12:21 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Thank you balantz
Edited on Fri Jun-06-08 12:22 AM by seemslikeadream
There seems to be way too much personal hatred here, in the dungeon

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Sweet Pea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-06-08 07:47 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Reality, baby!
We need this, too...

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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-06-08 08:50 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. I would expect that from you
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Sweet Pea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-06-08 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #10
28. Glad to have not let you down!
Reality bites, eh?

ar ar ar...
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-06-08 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. People calling you on your bullshit and lack of critical thinking skills isn't....
hatred, SLAD. The sooner you click to that, the sooner critical thinking might take hold in your brain.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-06-08 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. PEOPLE? PEOPLE?
Edited on Fri Jun-06-08 10:31 AM by seemslikeadream
You three? :rofl:



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greyl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-06-08 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. People are people
People are people
So why should it be
You and I should get along so awfully
People are people
So why should it be
You and I should get along so awfully

So were different colours
And were different creeds
And different people
Have different needs
Its obvious you hate me
Though Ive done nothing wrong
Ive never even met you
So what could I have done
I cant understand
What makes a man
Hate another man
Help me understand
People are people
So why should it be
You and I should get along so awfully
People are people
So why should it be
You and I should get along so awfully
Help me understand
Help me understand

Now youre punching
And youre kicking
And youre shouting at me
And Im relying on your common decency
So far it hasnt surfaced
But Im sure it exists
It just takes a while to travel
From your head to your fist (head to your fists)
I cant understand what makes a man
Hate another man
Help me understand
People are people
So why should it be
You and I should get along so awfully
People are people
So why should it be
You and I should get along so awfully

I cant understand
What makes a man
Hate another man
Help me understand
I cant understand
What makes a man
Hate another man
Help me understand
I cant understand
What makes a man
Hate another man
I cant understand (people are people)
What makes a man (why should it be)
Hate another man
Help me understand...

--Depeche Mode

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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-06-08 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. I don't hate you greyl
Edited on Fri Jun-06-08 10:43 AM by seemslikeadream
I feel nothing for you




but I do think you are
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greyl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-06-08 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #15
18. Leave it to you to put the most negative spin possible on a post.
If it made one person smile, it was worth it! (<---read in all caps)
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Ghost in the Machine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-06-08 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #18
21. I liked your post,.... for what it's worth...
:thumbsup:

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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-06-08 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #13
17. It's far more than three, SLAD and...
Edited on Fri Jun-06-08 10:57 AM by SDuderstadt
you know it.

At various times:

me
Bolo
Lared
Flatulo
Jberryhill
VincentVegaLives
Laurier
Azcat
Sid Dithers
Greyl
SweetPea


And that's just for starters. Shall I go on?
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-06-08 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. You know why I thought that?
It's so hard to tell, you all sound the same
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-06-08 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #17
20. Yea go on, do go on, please go on
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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-06-08 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #17
41. sounds like a flag football lineup
in the frat intramural league.
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Flatulo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-06-08 10:14 AM
Response to Reply #2
12. It is true that the RW was predicting martial law under Clinton.
It was prompted by the raid on the Branch Davidian coumpond in Waco, the ATF's killing of Randy Weaver's wife and son at Ruby Ridge, and the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban (which, ironically sold more assault weapons that the gun manufacturers could have ever dreamed).

Rumors of government clampdown are as old as the internet.

Anything is possible, mind you. The government has vast resources for fucking over anyone they please. But the internet multiples these rumors bu several orders of magnitude.
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Ghost in the Machine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-06-08 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #12
16. I don't know, Flatulo, I don't keep up with much that the right wingers have to say..
However, had SDude presented his case like you just did, it wouldn't have been a problem at all. He didn't do that though, did he? He seems more intent on stalking/harrassing a lady with his bluster and buffoonery than he does in actually intelligently debating a subject.

Also, keep in mind that the cases you mention were right wingers worrying about a Democratic President, whereas in this case, it's a right winger worrying about another right winger.. Also keep in mind that Clinton didn't start an illegal war of aggression, nor did he have legislation in place to suspend government and declare himself dictator.

Don't you think that's a little bit scary?

PEACE!

Ghost

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Flatulo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-06-08 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #16
22. Yes, we live in uncertain times. But had we had the Web back
Edited on Fri Jun-06-08 12:14 PM by Flatulo
in 1992, I think that Clinton hysteria would have reached much greater audiences than it actually did. Remember, the Clinton/Reno heavy-handedness at Waco and Ruby Ridge helped usher in Gingrich and the Repubs into the House in '94.

I'm just saying that the internet can amplify hysteria.

I'll close by saying that I do not trust ANY government, Democrat or Republican. Their primary motivation is to survive and rule.

ETA: I have a lot of fondness for SLAD, even though we disagree on almost everything. I think I would like her a lot if we ever met. She's very tough and she is a dogged digger-upper of hard-to-find info. But I think she errs on the side of over-reaction more often than not.
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Ghost in the Machine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-06-08 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. You're always a class act, Flatulo, I give you credit for that...
I know we don't always agree either, but we can remain civil to each other. I try to be that way with everyone, but a few here make it impossible to do. You, jberryhill, vincent_vega_lives, AZCat, even greyl & hack89, are capable of putting forth intelligent debate from your side. I respect all of you for that.

"I'll close by saying that I do not trust ANY government, Democrat or Republican. Their primary motivation is to survive and rule."

I couldn't have said it better myself. Trust no one, question everything!

" I have a lot of fondness for SLAD, even though we disagree on almost everything. I think I would like her a lot if we ever met. She's very tough and she is a dogged digger-upper of hard-to-find info. But I think she errs on the side of over-reaction more often than not."

Yes, SLAD is a very deep well of knowledge & information, and a vital part of this board.

Peace, Bro!

Ghost

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Flatulo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-06-08 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. Thanks Ghost. The feeling is mutual. nt
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-06-08 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. I think about a lot of things Ghost
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Ghost in the Machine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-06-08 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. I know you do, my friend... I know you do, and I, for one, appreciate the time and effort
that you put into your posts. You're an integral part of the heart & soul of DU...

:hug:

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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-06-08 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #22
26. Thanks Flatulo
Edited on Fri Jun-06-08 03:18 PM by seemslikeadream
Sometimes that over-reaction you detect just might be because of all the personal attacks I recieve here from a couple of folks. It is difficult to keep straight now and then who is spewing the crap, (especially at the tag time times) I think there's one or two that give the rest of ya'll a bad name. I will never forget your kind words. I will let you on to a little secret, sometimes I post things just to find out what everyone here thinks about it. ;) I have so many wonderful friends in GD and I have never been treated like I am in the dungeon (execpt when two or three follow me there) even though I discuss many of the same things.


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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-06-08 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. Oh, I get it now...
you're posting stuff you're not vouching for just to "test the waters"? Then why should you be surprised when people call you on bullshit?
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-06-08 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. EVERYTHING I POST HAS A LINK
Edited on Fri Jun-06-08 07:19 PM by seemslikeadream
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-06-08 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. Are you frickin' serious, SLAD?
Edited on Fri Jun-06-08 07:25 PM by SDuderstadt
For example, the post of yours I am responding to has NO link. Do you need me to point to more? What a stupid (and easily refutable) claim!
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-06-08 07:34 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. ............
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-06-08 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. Are you seriously claiming that your claim that you never post without a link is..
not patently false? Do you bother to even look at what you post before you hit "send"?
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balantz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-06-08 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. She always has a link n/t
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-06-08 08:44 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. TRY AND PAY ATTENTION SD, I KNOW IT'S DIFFICULT FOR YOU BUT TRY PLEASE?
Edited on Fri Jun-06-08 08:55 PM by seemslikeadream
THIS IS ONE FOR MY JOURNAL






It's the OP. Do you understand what was supposed to be discussed in this thread. Not your lame brain antics. All you ever do in my threads is derail them. You NEVER discuss the issue stated in the OP, it has a link that is what was supposed to be discussed here. Have you seen this?

104 VOTES
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=3392741&mesg_id=3392741

'splain the difference to me, someone, please?


WHERE ARE ALL MY "FRIENDS" IN THAT THREAD? EXACT SAME TOPIC

THE ONLY DIFFERENCE I CAN SEE IS THE PERSON WHO POSTED THE SAME MATERIAL BEING TREATED EXTREMELY UNDENYABLY DIFFERENTLY THAN ME. WHY SHOULD THAT BE SD?


DO YOU WANT TO KNOW WHY I DID NOT POST IN THAT THREAD SD? I'LL GIVE YOU THREE GUESSES




I'll give ya'll a hint
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=125&topic_id=206968&mesg_id=206968

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=125&topic_id=207576&mesg_id=207576



Personal thy name is the dungeon


Did anyone, ANYONE goofy enough go into that thread and act the way you have here? Slow your roll SD

Here is another example of your famous nonsense

Efraim was "a boy genius" who is "hard to control."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=125&topic_id=199949&mesg_id=199949
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-06-08 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. Wah Wah Wah!
You seem to think no one should be allowed to call you on your bullshit. I'm reminded of what Harry Truman said. Maybe you need to get yourself a new kitchen.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-06-08 08:56 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. FRIED CHICKEN ANYONE?
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Grateful for Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-07-08 12:56 AM
Response to Reply #35
43. Point taken, SLaD
The difference is quite obvious.
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Ghost in the Machine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-06-08 08:44 PM
Response to Reply #29
36. Did your mommy yell at you again so you're taking it out on SLAD?
Leave the lady alone... before you get your ass tombstoned for stalking.

I hate gutless cowards...

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Grateful for Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-07-08 12:56 AM
Response to Reply #36
44. Yes
Last I checked, stalking is against the rules.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-05-08 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. "We are at the edge of a cliff and we're about to fall off," says constitutional lawyer
Edited on Thu Jun-05-08 10:33 PM by seemslikeadream
"We are at the edge of a cliff and we're about to fall off," says constitutional lawyer and former Reagan administration official Bruce Fein. "To a national emergency planner, everybody looks like a danger to stability. There's no doubt that Congress would have the authority to denounce all this—for example, to refuse to appropriate money for the preparation of a list of U.S. citizens to be detained in the event of martial law. But Congress is the invertebrate branch. They say, 'We have to be cautious.' The same old crap you associate with cowards. None of this will change under a Democratic administration, unless you have exceptional statesmanship and the courage to stand up and say, 'You know, democracies accept certain risks that tyrannies do not.'"
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petgoat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-05-08 10:32 PM
Response to Original message
3. Well if I'm not on the list, I'm bloody well going to be insulted.
Edited on Thu Jun-05-08 10:41 PM by petgoat
How come that poofer gets waterboarded and I'm not even interviewed?

Oh right, that poofer is COINTELPRO and I'm not.

And he isn't really waterboarded, they just say he is.

Silly me.
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PunkinPi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-06-08 09:03 PM
Response to Original message
39. Are you one of them? :)
:shrug:
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-06-08 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. 6 years here and 30,000 posts
Edited on Fri Jun-06-08 09:08 PM by seemslikeadream
probably








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PunkinPi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-06-08 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #40
42. Well, if I were not
to count the posts and the years. :) Really, I don't want to feel that old. :)
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