Sibel Edmonds delurks as a DUer in Lukery's GD post

[HamdenRice]

Sibel Edmonds case: Facts and Thanks.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2644525

[SidDithers]

1. Interesting comment here...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=2644525&mesg_id=2645644

I think I can answer this one - Sibel doesn't know anything about any 'controlled demolition'.

edited to add: in case it's not clear from my original answer, as Randy notes, it was planes that hit the buildings.

As Sibel repeatedly says, we have enough evidence of wrongdoing and coverup without venturing into conspiracy speculation.

Sid

[HamdenRice]

3. You really have ...

a hard on for "no planes," eh Sid? That's all you got from Sibel's groundbreaking disclosures?

[SidDithers]

4. Ridiculous controlled demo and no-plane fairy tales...

are about as far as my interest in this subject goes. I've stated that before.

Though, any wild-ass speculation without supporting evidence is also fair game for comment.

Sid

Edit to add: Unsourced and innaccurate quotes are an issue. Also, careless posters who regurgitate errors from somewhere else, but then disclaim responsibility by passing the buck to their source.

[HamdenRice]

6. "controlled demo and no-plane fairy tales...are about as far as my interest in this subject goes"

Well, that just about says it all.

Thanks for sharing.

[SidDithers]

7. You're welcome...nt

Sid

[seemslikeadream]

5. Silly HamdenRice

don't you know what the important stuff is and what needs to be discussed to keep everyone from dwelling on Sibel or great literary books, etc?





IMPEACH CHENEY




They Thought They Were Free - Read by Dave Emory

The Germans, 1933-45

Excerpt from pages 166-73 of "They Thought They Were Free" First published in 1955

By Milton Mayer

But Then It Was Too Late

"What no one seemed to notice," said a colleague of mine, a philologist, "was the ever widening gap, after 1933, between the government and the people. Just think how very wide this gap was to begin with, here in Germany. And it became always wider. You know, it doesn’t make people close to their government to be told that this is a people’s government, a true democracy, or to be enrolled in civilian defense, or even to vote. All this has little, really nothing, to do with knowing one is governing.

"What happened here was the gradual habituation of the people, little by little, to being governed by surprise; to receiving decisions deliberated in secret; to believing that the situation was so complicated that the government had to act on information which the people could not understand, or so dangerous that, even if the people could understand it, it could not be released because of national security. And their sense of identification with Hitler, their trust in him, made it easier to widen this gap and reassured those who would otherwise have worried about it.

....

"Yes," I said.

"You see," my colleague went on, "one doesn’t see exactly where or how to move. Believe me, this is true. Each act, each occasion, is worse than the last, but only a little worse. You wait for the next and the next. You wait for one great shocking occasion, thinking that others, when such a shock comes, THE SHOCK DOCTRINE will join with you in resisting somehow. You don’t want to act, or even talk, alone; you don’t want to ‘go out of your way to make trouble.’ Why not?—Well, you are not in the habit of doing it. And it is not just fear, fear of standing alone, that restrains you; it is also genuine uncertainty.

"Uncertainty is a very important factor, and, instead of decreasing as time goes on, it grows. Outside, in the streets, in the general community, ‘everyone’ is happy. One hears no protest, and certainly sees none. You know, in France or Italy there would be slogans against the government painted on walls and fences; in Germany, outside the great cities, perhaps, there is not even this. In the university community, in your own community, you speak privately to your colleagues, some of whom certainly feel as you do; but what do they say? They say, ‘It’s not so bad’ or ‘You’re seeing things’ or ‘You’re an alarmist.’



Michael Parenti - Terrorism, Globalism & Conspiracy

"Coincidence Theory: By shear chance things just happen repeatedly and coincidentally to benefit their interests without any conscious connivance by them, which is most uncanny. There is also: Stupidity Theory, Innocence Theory, Momentary Aberration Theory, Incompetence Theory, Unintended Consequences Theory and Innocent Cultural Proclivities Theory."

- Michael Parenti

[Anarcho-Socialist]

9. ruh-roh

"As Sibel repeatedly says, we have enough evidence of wrongdoing and coverup without venturing into conspiracy speculation."

On this board so-called "OCTers" have said things amongst these lines and have been called "shills" "gatekeepers" "BushCo apologists" "dupes" "sheeple" and other stuff by pro-MIHOP "truth-seekers."

I hope she will be spared the same treatment.

Anyway it's really good to see Sibel Edmonds getting her message out.

[Grateful for Hope]

10. As I pointed out in another thread

"enough evidence of wrongdoing and coverup"....we do not know if there is a conspiracy underlying the wrongdoing and coverup she knows about. She is simply saying to stick with what is known. I admire that stance which hardly seems consistent with the "incompetence" theory.

[Anarcho-Socialist]

27. I admire her stance

Her message, avoid entertaining highly-speculative conspiracy theories. It is a stance I whole-heartedly endorse.

I hope at least the "no planes" and "controlled demolition" crowd will sit up and take note.

[SidDithers]

28. "sit up and take note"?...

not fuckin' likely.

Sid

[Grateful for Hope]

29. I definitely agree about the "no planes"

As far as CD is concerned, I have long felt that it is useless to argue one way or the other about that issue as none of us has enough evidence to confirm or deny it.

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SidDithers]

12. Some "OCTers" are truly assholes...

just as some truthers, some atheists, some christians, some men, and some women are assholes.

I'm hoping that we can at least agree that those kinds of comments have no place in any conversation, here or anywhere else.

Sid

[HamdenRice]

13. Wow!

Thanks Sid. That's a great example of non-partisanship and open minded thinking!

I thought that being in favor of the rape and torture of Sibel was the OCTer party line.

Glad to hear it isn't.

[SidDithers]

18. A simple agreement would have been too much, eh?...

Ah well. I tried.

Sid

[LARED]

14. Can you point out where a so called OCTer has said that?

Or is this just more stupid rhetorical tricks from HamdemRice?

[seemslikeadream]

15. I remember that also

It probably was deleted

[LARED]

16. What I remember is HamdenRice saying someone said that

but after looking at the offending post it was actually not advocating something so gruesome. It was Hamden up to his standard tricks of twisting peoples words.

I could be wrong. Hopefully Hammy will provide some backup for his charge

[Kingshakabobo]

17. You hit the nail right on the head.

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Grateful for Hope]

20. The post in question

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=125&topic_id=182140#182146.

It was in the discussion about Patty Casazza. Sibel Edmonds was not included as she is considered a genuine whistleblower.

On another note, contrary to what was said in this thread, HamdenRice did not mischaracterize what was said.

[Fainter]

Read The Entire Thread n/t

[Fainter]

22. Read The Entire Thread n/t

[Grateful for Hope]

23. I did

and, unless I am not reading it correctly, I really didn't see the remarks directed at Sibel. If I am wrong, I apologize.

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SidDithers]

21. Now, seing the actual thread...

it's obvious just how wrong you were. In fact, it's pretty clear that the poster specifically wasn't talking about Sibel Edmonds, or else they wouldn't have posted this comment:

Sibel Edmonds and other actual whistleblowers are rightly hailed as heroes.

Sid

[RedSock]

25. sibel is right!

As Sibel repeatedly says, we have enough evidence of wrongdoing and coverup without venturing into conspiracy speculation

This is what I say all the time.

There is so much provable hard evidence -- much of it from the govt. itelf -- that CD and missles should be way down the list of top research projects.

It is also this type of info that the average mainstream non-researcher will listen to -- not CD or video fakery.

[seemslikeadream]

2. In 5 years here this is my most cherished reply

[Grateful for Hope]

8. You deserve the "Thank You" SLaD

You are a very valuable member of DU. It's good that your efforts are being recognized.

[wildbilln864]

26. And I'll second that.

:hi: