Down the memory hole

[RebelYell]

Possible Longboat terrorist incident
Is it a clue or is it a coincidence?
By Shay Sullivan, City Editor
Wednesday, September 26, 2001

By now, most everyone knows President George W. Bush began that fateful day, Sept. 11, on Longboat Key, but the FBI is now investigating whether terrorists also began that fateful day here on the island.

At about 6 a.m. Sept. 11, Longboat Key Fire Marshall Carroll Mooneyhan was at the front desk of the Colony Beach & Tennis Resort as Bush prepared for his morning jog. From that vantage point, Mooneyhan overheard a strange exchange between a Colony receptionist and security guard.

A van occupied by men of Middle Eastern descent had pulled up to the Colony stating they had a “poolside” interview with the president, Mooneyhan said. The self-proclaimed reporters then asked for a Secret Service agent by name. Guards from security relayed the request to the receptionist, who had not heard of either the agent or plans for an interview, Mooneyhan said.

~~~~~~~~

http://www.longboatobserver.com/showarticle.asp?ai=1874

Follow up article from same newspaper:

~~~~~~~~

Authorities are also looking into a report published last week in The Longboat Observer that men claiming to be reporters came to the Colony Beach & Tennis Resort Sept. 11 seeking an interview with President George W. Bush, who had spent the night at the resort.

According to Longboat Key firefighter Carroll Mooneyhan, who was in the resort’s lobby at the time, the hotel receptionist told a secret service agent there were men seeking an interview with Bush. A Secret Service agent turned the men away after telling them to contact the president’s public relations office, Mooneyhan said.

Coincidentally, the request for the interview with Bush is the same modus operandi used in the death of an anti-Taliban general in Afghanistan. On Sept. 9, Afghan opposition leader Ahmed Shah Masood granted an interview to two men who claimed to be reporters in the town of Khwaja Baha-Uddin, according to BBC News. Once close to Masood, one of the men received permission to use his video camera. The man then picked up the video camera and it exploded, dealing a fatal blow to both Masood and the suicide bombers, reported BBC news.

FBI spokeswoman Sara Oates declined to discuss the matter or the other two tips passed on to the FBI by Longboat Key Police.

~~~~~~~~

http://www.longboatobserver.com/showarticle.asp?ai=1923

[Talkative1]

1. deleted

deleted

[Pallas180]

2. Good post Reb. I remember

reading it somewhere, I think probably on the Plame-Tip of The Iceberg thread.

[Pallas180]

4. Actually when the opposition leader

was killed I remember reading about it then, probably in
the NYT or something.

[yardwork]

3. I didn't know he stayed at the Colony

I've stayed at the Colony. How bizarre.

It used to be a fancy destination, but in recent years it has been outpaced by many newer and fancier resorts on Long Boat Key. I wonder why he stayed there? It's run by German nationals. May or may not be relevant.

Edited to say - this whole account sounds fishy, and why is it coming out now, right before the election? It's designed to stimulate sympathy for the president and fear among Americans. They tried to get our president! If this really happened, why wasn't it front-page news in the weeks after 9/11?

Bunch of baloney, you ask me.

[RebelYell]

5. I'm not sure why he stayed there,

but I've read elsewhere that Laura and George went there more than once before he was prez.

German nationals, interesting.

[Pallas180]

6. "Asked for a secret service agent by name"

and people are running around saying it wasn't an inside job.

Just think, we could have had Dick Cheney for president at that
moment.......

uh - thinking about that.

how could the 4 terra-ists have had the resident's secret service
agent's name?

unless - - - -

anyone want to fill in the rest of that sentence?

[robertpaulsen]

7. - - - it was _IHOP?

I know, I know. I shouldn't get hung up on labels.
:)
All Things Must Pass.

[Pallas180]

8. Misunderstanding. It was in the papers back in 2001 -rebel yell

is reposting it cause there sure is a lot that's fishy -

[RebelYell]

16. These reports were published a week after 9/11

But buried and scrubbed for the unwashed masses.

[robertpaulsen]

9. deleted

[Pallas180]

10. this thread has nothing to do with campaign 2004-why is it over here?

it should be moved to General Discussion.

[robertpaulsen]

12. Gee...maybe we should ask the question why?

Why was it moved?

No, fuck that. I'm just asking for a mountain of bullshit.

[robertpaulsen]

11. deleted

[Abe Linkman]

13. Self-induced "terra" -- part of the BIG 9/11 inside job

No terrorists. No such thing as al Queda (it's a term cooked-up by the U.S. perps).

THINK: Why would ANY "terrust" need to come to the U.S. to learn how to fly planes...whether into buildings or otherwise? They're either fiendishly clever or dumber than Bunnypants. Which is it? How about NEITHER. What terrorist would take the risks claimed by the real 9/11 perps? I'm talking about coming here for flying lessons...going to Maine & then flying back to Boston? Flying out to Ohio (why Ohio? somebody here might know the truth about that one) -- giving the entire U.S. military time to react?

"THEY" (the real perps) must either think the entire country is dumb enough to believe anything, or else they're confident that thru a compliant media, on-going propaganda and disinformation, and the virtues of a helpful "investigation" (9/11 Commission Coverup)...the only people who will really learn what the truth is will be marginalized and "not a
problem".

Course, we all know that bushco lies -- but who'd believe they'd lie about something that could lead to warS (Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria ).

[RebelYell]

14. I couldn't agree with you more n/t

[DoYouEverWonder]

19. I don't know why Flight 93 flew all the way out to Ohio

before turning back, but it does seem they were taking their good sweet time. This is odd by itself, because none of the hijackers seemed to be too worried about being intercepted. Otherwise why would you plan an attack that required you to fly around for 30 to 60 minutes before reaching your target?



Another oddity is Flight 77 and the little detour that this flight takes. After studying the data available, Flight 93 was delayed on the ground for about 45 minutes. Flight 77 takes a turn to the north, just when Flight 93 takes off. It seems that Flight 77 was trying to hang back to let Flight 93 catch up?

If you look at Flight 11 and Flight 175 their paths were also coordinated with each and it appears to be deliberate.

My guess is that the people who took over the two planes had a way to communicate with each other or at the least keep track of each others whereabouts?

Then something went wrong with the take over of Flight 93 and it was taking too long. At that point, Flight 77 decided to turned around and headed back to their target.

[RH]

20. THINK

Why would ANY "terrust" need to come to the U.S. to learn how to fly planes?

There are no flying schools in Afghanistan. Pilots from the Middle East routinely train in the USA, nothing new or unusual about it.

[demodewd]

21. I'm thinking

And why would some of these "patsy" terrorists take flying lessons in the CIA's back yard? Because they were patsies?

[RebelYell]

23. Good point

Florida has been a CIA drug smuggling point for many years

[MercutioATC]

27. Because there are more flying schools in Florida?

...and, racially, they wouldn't stand out?

Imagine a group of Saudis taking flying lessons in, say, Iowa. Think they might draw some attention?

[Abe Linkman]

28. Weak excuse. Saudis DID "stand out" in Florida.

You didn't answer the question of why they would not learn how to fly planes in the M.E.. That's because you know the answer as well as we do, but for some reason (can't imagine what it could be), you are unable to tell us.

[MercutioATC]

29. Why don't ALL pilots learn to fly in their own countries?

I don't know, but we sure train a lot of foreign pilots in the U.S.

I doubt they're all terrorists.

[Abe Linkman]

30. Real terrorists from the M.E. wouldn't come here for FLYING lessons!

Get real! Silly goose.

[MercutioATC]

31. Why not? "Real terrorists" have 757 simulators?

[Abe Linkman]

32. They might. But, if they don't , they wouldn't come HERE for lessons.

Silly.

[MercutioATC]

33. Why not? The U.S. trains more pilots than any other country.

[Abe Linkman]

38. You implying the U.S. trains terrorists to fly planes into buildings?

n/t

[MercutioATC]

40. No, I'm clearly stating that the U.S. trains lots of foreign pilots.

What they do with that training is up to them.

[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Abe Linkman]

49. Why waste our time stating the obvious (and such a trite thing at that)?

What is to be gained doing that...continuously here at DU? Well, at least you're a Kerry/bushco/Cavemen supporter.

[MercutioATC]

54. Because you suggested terrorists wouldn't train in the U.S.

I don't see any reason why they wouldn't. The U.S. is no stranger to training foreign pilots...they wouldn't necessarily stand out.

[Abe Linkman]

58. backwards think You.

You just can't imagine why a young M.E. man would go to a flight school and tell them that he's only interested in learning how to "steer the plane", not how to take off or land. I just can't imagine why you would think that way. I bet if you had a job in say, ATC, you'd think a little differently.

[MercutioATC]

59. Losing your bet, you are.

Since I am an ATC and I do believe that the hijackers trained in Florida (we have civilian accounts of this, not just government statements), your "bet" would be lost.

[RH]

41. Trainee pilots need to practice their English.

I read somewhere that there is nowhere in the Middle East to learn to fly an airliner, period.

[MercutioATC]

60. Beyond that, English is the international ATC language.

If a Saudi pilot flies over France, the pilot and controller both speak English.

[Abe Linkman]

63. So, ALL future pilots come to the U.S. for training? I don't think so.

You're really grasping at straws on that one, murk. Romey might be impressed, but impressing isn't really the goal, is it?

[MercutioATC]

64. Again, you're making stuff up, Abe. I never said that.

All international pilots must speak English. I believe they teach English in a few countries besides the U.S.

:eyes:

...talk about "grasping at straws".

[Abe Linkman]

65. You implied it. And, I was just pointing out that you did so.

I don't think anyone accused you of actually SAYING that. I'm just pointing out that there's a difference between not telling the world something it already knows -- and, implying something that isn't so.

LOOK, it's YOUR little tactic. You should be impressed, even though I'm not as accomplished at using it as you are.

[MercutioATC]

66. You see "implications" everywhere, don't you?

Fine, I'll set the record straight:

All international pilots must speak English. Since the English language is taught in many countries, this should not be construed to mean that they must come to the U.S. for pilot training simply to meet a language requirement (as if that would make any sense).

Better?

[RH]

68. If you really want to know

there are online forums where pilots and others with similar interests gather.

Why continue in such a futile fashion with this style of sensationaly imaginative but childishly facile commentary? If just for once your goal was to go get some verifiable information not seen before your opposition would surely die of shock.

:wow:

[seatnineb]

69. Saudi Arabia Aviation Academy.

To quote the most noble RH
Thu Aug-19-04 11:16 PM
My sources are of course checked, and checkable.

Every report I rely upon has a name attached.
They are known, responsible people with verifiable names, addresses and profession.

The most noble RH who then goes on to contradict himself in grand style........

Fri Aug-20-04 01:10 PM
I read somewhere that there is nowhere in the Middle East to learn to fly an airliner, period.

Could you provide a source for this empty declaration?
Even if you could.......
That "source" would have to predate the early 1980's.......


Because that is how long Saudi Arabia has had its own Aviation Academy.
http://www.saudiainfo.itgo.com/1981.htm

About the time when most of the Saudi 9/11 hijackers were hitting puberty.

[RH]

70. Is that the best you could find?

Nothing on that Suadi site appears to show that any Saudi Arabian Academy teaches anybody to fly airliners, nor was I aware that the suspects were connected in any way to the Saudi Airline. If in an absolute sense there is somewhere to learn you'd still need to show that it was accessible to those concerned. I wrote "read somewhere" precisely because I don't remember my original source of information, but you may care to try this one:

http://www.bestaviation.net/search_aviation_school_middle_east.asp

Try a search for "airplane".
Try a search for "flight engineer".

Not very promising, is it?

The best available seems to the Aviation Academy in Jordan. It teaches the following:

* English Language (3 levels) and Aviation English
* Computer Hardware, Software and CISCO networking academics program.
* Training technology: Instructional Techniques and Course Design
* Aeronautical Telecommunications, Navigational Aids and Radar
* Air Traffic Services: Basic Air Traffic Aerodrome Control, Procedural and Radar
Approach and Area Control, Airfield Operations, AIS and Com. Ops.
* Airport Electrical Engineering: Airfield Lighting Systems and Electrical Machines, Power Control & Protection.
* Flight Safety
* Aviation Security

http://www.qnac.edu.jo

There is also, I gather, a flight school at Marka Airport but it doesn't sound like to me the sort of place to teach to fly a B757 or a 767.

http://www.arabwomenconnect.org/hdocs/mainform.asp?p=news/readNews&id=69

[seatnineb]

72. Think again RH

RH

You need to try harder my fellow "British" compatriot.....

When it comes to defending unsubstantiated claims.......

Because........

When it comes to learning how to fly commercial airliners for young Arab men.......

Doha,Quatar is far closer(and probably cheaper?) than Florida or California.


Gulf Air's training facilities are located at Doha International Airport in Qatar, which provides training for many Middle Eastern, Asian and European airlines. As of June 1998, the center was equipped with 10 classrooms and approximately 20 instructors. It is capable of training approximately 300 employees per month, in classes ranging in duration from one day to two months. It has received approvals from various regulatory agencies such as the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), the British Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) and several others. This facility conducts a full range of training for the airline's pilots from basic training to type ratings on Boeing 767s and Airbus A320s, A330s and A340s, which are mostly computer-based. Initial training is conducted at the Qatar Aeronautical College Pilot Training Division. Gulf Air spends approximately US$8 million on training per year. In June 1999, Gulf Air signed a deal with Thomson Training and Simulation of France to enhance its aircraft simulators, including the conversion of an Airbus Full Flight Simulator to the A330-200 model.
http://www.airsecurity.com/airline/gulf.htm

And as a side note.......
Khalid Sheik Mohammed(9/11 mastermind)had a farm in Quatar.......
Former F.B.I director Luis Freeh discussed variouse strategies to apprehend Khalid with Quatari Authorities without success back in the mid to late 90's.....

They said Khalid also knew how to fly..........
And Khalid never bothered to tell his 19 "9/11 brothers" about this local flying school?

Try and get yourself out of this latest 9/11 official story paradox.....

I am getting the popcorn out!

[RH]

73. "for many Middle Eastern, Asian and European airlines"

Did any of the suspects ever belong in any way to an airline? Were they in any way connected to Qatar? I see nothing to confirm that Gulf Air offers cheap training to anybody not thus associated. Reasons were previously given for a pilot to prefer the USA. The choice would presumably not in any case be a matter just for a client. Are no qualifications needed to join a flying school?

It is also dangerous to assume for instance that "Khalid never bothered..." You don't really know that, do you? For all I know so far the school may have been involved somewhere along the line.

If they'd trained in Japan I may be wondering why. The Atta gang were interested in the USA, not only for the sake of the flying schools. How many of the folk in Qatar drink in bars and sniff coke?

I see no paradox. Thanks anyway for the research. It makes a change from the usual fare of aggressively paranoid ad hominem rant.

Now maybe, just to show a healthy sense of balance, you can have a go about Abe Linkman's repeated failures to substantiate assertions when challenged.

Do enjoy your popcorn.

[seatnineb]

78. Attracting attention.....

Sure rh......

It made perfect sense for Atta and company to learn to fly at this airport.........

It's not unusual to see a military Blackhawk helicopter touch down at the Venice Airport in the middle of the night," stated the official, who requested anonymity, "and then take off again thirty seconds later, after dropping off its cargo or passengers."

"Or you look up and all of a sudden there's 5000 soldiers from the 101st Airborne landing and taking off. Strange things have been going on out there for a long time."

Gee.......

Brothers Ziad and Marwan are running a bit of a risk "in the run up to the zero hour(9/11)" dont you think.......

Even disinfo agent Binalshibh is adding spice to the story.......

Brothers Marwan (Al-Sheni) and Ziad (Jarrah) were tailed by security officers throughout their reconaissance flight from New York to California-all the way through.But Allah was with them.
Masterminds Of Terror.
By Nick Fielding And Yosri Fouda.
Published By Mainstream Publishing.
Page 135.


All these brothers had to do was enrol at this college in Jordan...
If they WANTED TO AVOID arousing the suspicion of the U.S authorities.

The Academy Training Fleet consists of variety of different training aircrafts for different purposes. Basic and Advanced flying training at all levels is available.
http://www.rjaa.net/planes.htm


Once they had obtained their licences they could have then potentially moved onto here......

Gulf Air's training facilities are located at Doha International Airport in Qatar, which provides training for many Middle Eastern, Asian and European airlines. As of June 1998, the center was equipped with 10 classrooms and approximately 20 instructors. It is capable of training approximately 300 employees per month, in classes ranging in duration from one day to two months. It has received approvals from various regulatory agencies such as the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), the British Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) and several others. This facility conducts a full range of training for the airline's pilots from basic training to type ratings on Boeing 767s and Airbus A320s, A330s and A340s, which are mostly computer-based. Initial training is conducted at the Qatar Aeronautical College Pilot Training Division. Gulf Air spends approximately US$8 million on training per year. In June 1999, Gulf Air signed a deal with Thomson Training and Simulation of France to enhance its aircraft simulators, including the conversion of an Airbus Full Flight Simulator to the A330-200 model.


But on the contary ... they chose Florida because they wanted to be seen.............
So people like you would believe in the post 9/11 legend.......

Looks like they succeded.

[RebelYell]

35. Actually - Atta also took flying lessons in Oklahoma n/t

[Pallas180]

45. which was strange, since he was a thrice licensed pilot - so

what were they, short runs across the border for pick-ups?

could be.

[Pallas180]

47. Merc, that's true but there are a lot of Pakistanis, Indians here

and they still do stand out. (I'm in Florida) Haircuts - accents -

There's a lot of Haitians and Jamaicans, and they're not going to
pass for one of them.

[Abe Linkman]

50. Apologists have to say SOMETHING, don't you know?

Too much of is allowed to go unchallenged, so thanks for speaking up, Pallas180.

[Pallas180]

56. Abe, we try to work together as a team, fit in the pieces but not challeng

each other...

Each person sees something the other didn't...and even if it isn't
right , it triggers an answer maybe from someone else

So take it easy, sweetcakes. :)


:hi:

[MercutioATC]

55. I was speaking in an "FBI" sense. They wouldn't necessarily be suspicious

to law enforcement agencies.

[RH]

71. I guess they liked the climate.

It is only amongst the CT crowd that there has to be a sinister motive for everything that happens.

:beer:

[Pallas180]

61. Uh - cause they knew they were protected?

ai yi yi, chihuahua, this lil yappy doggy follows me wher'er I go.

[RebelYell]

22. Atta had 3 commercial pilots licenses before he got here n/t

[number6]

76. are there no flying schools in the middle east or europe ?

why go to the USA ?

"Pilots from the Middle East routinely train in the USA, nothing new or unusual about it."

got a link to prove that ?

[Pallas180]

24. Goebbels?

someone above asked who would believe it.

Goebbels, he'd believe it.

He said tell a lie big enough and often enough, it will be believed.

[RebelYell]

36. I have relatives that retired on Florida's gulf coast

They happened to call me last night about a death in the extended family. I asked how Punta Gorde was fairing after the hurricane.

Uncle said, "Punta Gorde? Who gives a shit? Punta Gorde was built by ex-CIA for retirement. That's common knowledge down here. Don't get me started on Goss." Heh.

[Pallas180]

44. That's great! but Goss didn't know a thing about helicopters disappearing

drug running from the airport, or terra-ists taking flying lessons
in his back yard. (she said with incredulity)

Maybe your uncle could tell you a lot more and fill in some for us.
Isn't it funny, you never know where you'll pick up information.

[Bolo Boffin]

Another reason: acclimatization

While learning to fly in America, the hijackers would also have the opportunity to get rid of the "culture shock" that might have caused problems during the actual operation.

[Abe Linkman]

39. What are you talking about? Learning how to snort coke? Eat pork?

Please. In fact, isn't your latest spin on this contradictory to an earlier claim of yours? Whether or not it is, you must think everyone is as dumb and gullible as Gomer Pyle. That might sell in the deep South & amongst the FOX News crowd, but NO ONE here would believe that...even the usual suspects, who might pretend they do.

[RH]

42. Rehearsal. Preparation.

The suspects flew transcontinental as if to rehearse the operation.

They would also need to get to know each other.

Or would you expect them just to turn up in the USA on September 10th?

:silly:

[Abe Linkman]

48. Since when do Patsies need "Rehearsal. Preparation."?

Do you understand what a Patsy is? Ever hear of Lee Harvey Oswald?
MAYBE Tim McVeigh? The Spaniards a few mo's ago. The Phillippine who killed Ninoy Aquino (August, 1983), and then was himself shot...and subsequently labeled a loner & Communist (wouldn't you know it!).

[Bolo Boffin]

51. You're moving the goalpost, Abe.

You said, "why would they come here to train as pilots?" You meant this as a criticism of al-Qaeda carrying out the attacks.

We gave you several reasons why, if al-Qaeda carried out the attacks, they would train in the US to fly.

You respond, "Why do patsies need rehearsal?" That's completely beside the point.

Tell me, Abe, what's your proof that these men were patsies?

[RH]

52. Before the event.

:eyes:

[Pallas180]

46. Boloboffin - is Kangas alive? n/t

ai yi yi, chihuahua, this lil yappy doggy follows me wher'er I go.

[Bolo Boffin]

77. I don't know.

What does that have to do with anything? The Kangas quote I use is in reference to healthcare.

[demodewd]

53. unloading

And its a real good place to unload those kilos and have 100 dolla bills wadded up in their pockets. :donut:

[Pallas180]

62. Yes A Linkman - why did they fly/drive to Maine?

ai yi yi, chihuahua, this lil yappy doggy follows me wher'er I go.

[RebelYell]

15. Wow, this thread has been moved twice

Why?

Can my banishment be far off?

[Abe Linkman]

17. Be careful. Don't let the bushco apologists "help make it happen".

That's one of their favorite tactics, you know.

[LARED]

18. First of all Abe

bushco apologists is a incorrect and demeaning term. Pointing out the idiocy of most of the 9/11 CT crap is not a being a Bush apologist.

And who has been banned by the so called "bushco apologists?"

Or is it more BS?

[Pallas180]

25. Rebel

no, I complained to the MOD that it didn't belong in campaign 2004
when it was about 9-11.

You were thinking a certain political operative struck again?

No, it was jus lil ol me.

I hear Robert is going to write a paper called DU Judas - bwaaaaa

[Pallas180]

26. oops - - ai yi yi, chihuahua

duplicate post sorry










this lil yapping doggy follows me wher'er I go. :)

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DU GrovelBot]

37. ## PLEASE DONATE TO DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND! ##

==================
GROVELBOT.EXE v3.0
==================



This week is our third quarter 2004 fund drive. Democratic
Underground is a completely independent website. We depend almost entirely
on donations from our members to cover our costs. Thank you so much for
your support.

[Pallas180]

57. Rebel Yell - please take a look at Shraby's Sibel thread - think

we're at a point where it joins up with yours.

It's so simple really, that the mind rejects it.

With this crew it shouldn't.

The reason why and who was behind the Longboat Key attempted big A.

[Pallas180]

75. well then REB, all the partners in

Carlyle, including obl and his family would own all the oil in
Saudi Arabia wouldn't they?

[RebelYell]

67. Ponder this:

What if al Qaeda de-throned the House of Saud and OBL rode into Saudi Arabia on a white camel as the Ayotallah of Saudi Arabia? Can you say, "O-I-L"??? Time for my meds. :crazy:

[Pallas180]

74. Hey Reb -

are you around?

RP is back, one day a week