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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-27-07 01:12 AM
Original message
Looks like I was wrong about the BBC / WTC 7 video
Edited on Tue Feb-27-07 01:23 AM by JackRiddler
Tuesday, February 27, 2007:

BBC World News started reporting that WTC 7 had collapsed about 23 minutes before the building actually came down, as video of news coverage on September 11th shows. The segment establishing this is available on the archive.org news service and was discovered by veritas911, a member of 911blogger.com.

(The 1-gigabyte original video is located at http://ia311517.us.archive.org/2/items/bbc200109111654-1736/V08591-16.mpg)

Speaking from London on the afternoon of September 11th, BBC World News anchorman Philip Hayton asks reporter Jane Stanley in New York about the collapse of the "47-story Salomon Brothers Building," also known as WTC 7. Although the building is clearly visible and still standing through the window behind Stanley, its collapse is repeatedly described as a past event. Hayton even asks Stanley if there were any casualties in the building.

WTC 7 in fact collapsed about five minutes after Stanley's connection to London was cut off (reportedly due to a technical failure). My apologies to veritas911 for my hasty and dismissive judgment of his discovery, and to 911blogger.com for suggesting that the presentation of the BBC segment should be pulled off the site.

Allow me to explain my mistake: The BBC segment of September 11 was presented on Google Video yesterday morning by someone unknown to me, whom I will call the "Video Artist." This person added explanatory titles exhibiting a patently wrong understanding of how time zones are arranged. For example, the Video Artist's titles state that the BBC segment begins shortly before 5pm EST (Eastern Standard Time). In fact, New York on 9/11/2001 was using EDT (Eastern Daylight Time). 5pm EST is actually 6pm EDT.

On seeing these titles I concluded, perhaps falsely, that the Video Artist was intentionally trying to deceive about the timing of the BBC broadcast, and that the broadcast was actually at 6pm EDT (i.e., after the WTC 7 collapse).

One of the titles bizarrely claimed BBC World News was using BST (British Summer Time) when in fact it uses GMT (Greenwich Mean or universal time). This title states that 10pm BST is 5pm EST, which is in fact impossible! (10 pm BST=9pm GMT=5pm EDT=4pm EST).

As a result I feared someone was once again leading on 9/11 skeptics with a falsification, a sadly frequent occurrence. In this I ignored the simpler explanation: that the Video Artist was woefully ignorant of time zones, and failed to do the most basic research on the subject.

Thus was I temporarily blinded to the far more important paradox of Jane Stanley and the uncollapsed WTC 7. No clock is visible in the half-hour of the BBC segment, so the broadcast time still needs to be established beyond any doubt. But it is almost certainly before 5:20 pm, as the information available at archive.org states, and as various internal clues imply (chief among them that the building is still seen standing; also mentioning Bush having just flown out of Nebraska, which would have been just before 5 pm EDT).

If so, then the BBC was in possession of an accurate advance report on the future collapse of WTC 7, and chose to report this collapse "prematurely." As she spoke of it, the British reporter herself may have had no clue that she was looking at WTC 7 (since this was not a remarkable or universally-known building prior to 9/11).

Did the authorities in New York provide BBC with a written text or other communication predicting an imminent WTC 7 collapse? Who would have done that? The authorities have claimed that they knew from the state of the building that it would collapse, but the timing of the BBC report is uncannily prescient. Within five minutes after Jane Stanley's report is abruptly cut off, the building does actually collapse, as though on cue.

If by some chance the time of this segment is mistaken, as I first thought, and the segment was actually broadcast after 5:20 (as the deficient titles by the Video Artist led me to believe), this would be damning of the BBC, as the only explanation in that case is that it was somehow faking a live broadcast, by means such as a reporter speaking in front of a back-lit projection or video screen showing footage shot earlier. (This kind of deception may be common in the broadcast media, but it would still be scandalous and inexcusable.)

Either way, BBC World News must now explain why and how it was reporting on a future disaster as though it had already happened.

---

ADDING ON EDIT: The segment as a whole is a great primer in the total propaganda established on 9/11/2001 - America discovers its vulnerability, things will never be the same, Americans are now wounded and fearful, Pearl Harbor, only foreigners could do this, only Osama could do this, retaliation surely coming, those Arabs liked that this happened, let's ask Shimon Peres what Americans should do since his people have suffered more from terrorism than any other, he says to treat any country that harbors'em as a terrorist nation, well here comes the swift fist of revenge!
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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-27-07 01:26 AM
Response to Original message
1. Hmm. This could simply be explained by the fact that everyone expected WTC 7 to collapse
I was watching the footage all day and experts started predicting it early in the day due to damage. Of course it's convenient that no other nearby buildings had to be immediately torn down. WTC 7 was an eyesore which blocked traffic thru Greenwich street into Lower Manhattan.

I am far more concerned about the fact that the Blind Sheikh revealed plans to "use the enemy's jetplanes" to attack the George Washington Bridge and other targets, including "buildings in Lower Manhattan".

I found this remarkably disturbing when I read about it in the mainstream media in late 1999/early 2000, when it was revealed during the course of the Fitzgerald prosecution.

When Bin Laden subsequently declared he had possession of nukes, I drafted a letter to US News and World Report saying that, in light of his PREVIOUSLY PUBLISHED threats to use jet planes as weapons, the US Media should be taking his threats more seriously.

How come nobody else seems to remember these published threats to use jet planes as weapons?
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-27-07 01:41 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. Everyone expecting it is not the same...
As someone reporting it as though it already happened, before it does so.

Have you seen all the angles of this collapse? It's the smoothest thing you've ever seen. The building is without a doubt damaged, but the orderly demise visible on video belies a collapse due to that damage.

However, I agree with you. There was so much going on before 9/11 of the sort of thing you describe that, in light of the later lies ('no one could have imagined,' the 9/11 Omission report) and the 100-percent exploitation of 9/11 to implement longstanding plans, the question of orchestration or a false-flag attack (which would be neither morally nor logistically much of a feat for the Bush crew and its covert-agency tentacles) constantly raises itself.
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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-27-07 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #3
35. Yes, but... BUT you did not address my point. WHY does nobody remember Bin Laden's advance warnings
Which were revealed in testimony by the Blind Sheikh?

I almost wrote a letter to US News complaining of their
lack of coverage of Bin Laden's threats to "use the enemy's
jetplanes against them". The target of the George Washingon
Bridge (along with "Lower Manhattan") for a plane attack was
especially unusual and memorable.

Don't you people remember this? Or weren't you following the
Al Qaeda story before 9-11?

"The perfect supervillain" I thought to myself at the time --
given his STATED PLANS TO ATTACK US WITH JET PLANES.

My letter was in response to a subsequent nuke threat, which
also got buried after the CIA said "it's just a cover for
planned attacks abroad, they don't have the capability to
strike here at home."

Can't people read?????????????????
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-27-07 01:37 AM
Response to Original message
2. Re your edit.. I noticed that too, it was a neat little package of premeditated propaganda
It's the same bullet points we're hearing 6 years later. It had to be written for them.
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-27-07 01:48 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. Well, this is true...
But I don't think in the form of a memo. I remember the first moment I learned the news so well: In just a few seconds everything we would be hearing for the rest of the day hit me, including that OBL would be trotted out as the perp within a few hours and that the pundits would advance plans that translated meant killing at least 1,000 brown-skinned foreigners for every dead American. After so many years of washing brains, I really think the media had no trouble knowing exactly what to say on 9/11. All the scripts were already in the air.
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greyl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-27-07 01:45 AM
Response to Original message
4. "This is why the debunkers get to poke fun all day". nt
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-27-07 01:49 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. Do you find anything outlandish or inaccurate in the above account? nt
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greyl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-27-07 02:40 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Why do you need to ask? nt
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mhatrw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-27-07 02:42 AM
Response to Original message
8. Thanks. Good post.
Your integrity in your search for truth is admirable.
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-27-07 02:42 AM
Response to Original message
9. CNN got it wrong too...
Edited on Tue Feb-27-07 02:43 AM by SidDithers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1LetB0z8_o

Maybe there was just too much confusion and erroneous reports were made.

Edit: "reports that building 7 may have collapsed or is collapsing"

Sid
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-27-07 07:28 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. At 4:15 EDT, a report that 7 "is collapsing or has collapsed"
Then they cut to a shot of the actual building pouring out smoke, Aaron turns around, and from then on speaks of the building as being in danger of collapsing. Somebody at CNN knew the building by sight. The BBC reporters evidently didn't.

And yet the CT advocates, desperate for something to bash the BBC with after that smashing documentary, are jumping up and down with glee over something that we all already knew - that officials knew 7 was going to fall long before it did. The spectacle is amusing.
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The Lone Groover Donating Member (654 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-27-07 07:46 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. "knew 7 was going to fall long before it did"
..is different to annoucing that it had fallen before it did.

The OCT spin here is very interesting.

to bash the BBC with after that smashing documentary

You mean the one that "covered just about everything" but didn't discuss Bush foreknowledge, Sibel Edmonds, Paul Thompsons timeline, Hijacker/CIA connections... etc..

Yes it was "smashing".

The paradigm shift is coming!
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-27-07 07:52 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. The report Aaron Brown gave at 4:15 EDT: "is collapsing or has collapsed".
This is 45 minutes before the BBC announces that the building has collapsed. That's evidence that a lot of confusion was still happening on that day.

It's most entertaining to watch all of this. It's things like this that puts a smile on the face of a debunker all day long.
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The Lone Groover Donating Member (654 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-27-07 08:10 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. That's the spirit...
Edited on Tue Feb-27-07 08:21 AM by The Lone Groover
"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs... then you've completely misjudged the situation" - R Kipling.

Which side you going to sit when the paradigm shift occurs?
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-27-07 08:15 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. The side that knows how to spell paradigm. n/t
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The Lone Groover Donating Member (654 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-27-07 08:21 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. Eh? nt
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-27-07 08:24 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. You're just full of amusement today, SR. n/t
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The Lone Groover Donating Member (654 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-27-07 08:28 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. Prove it! nt
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-27-07 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #17
34. Prove my amusement at your antics?
What? Do you want me to record myself chuckling at your posts and upload that to Google Video?
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-27-07 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #10
21. Funny
Nothing's amused me in this episode so far, except, and this is my honest answer, the rhetorical contortions you have undergone, as you are clearly the smartest of the local barnacles.
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-27-07 09:26 AM
Response to Reply #21
24. Again with the claim of my "contortions."
What contortions am I undergoing? The reporter was clearly wrong. Aaron Brown said 45 minutes before the BBC that reports were circulating of 7 falling or fallen. Report after report shows that officials clearly expected the building to fall. But you guys are jumping up and down hysterically about this "proof of foreknowledge."

Well, yeah! They knew the building was going to fall down! We know that. This is nothing new.

Man, you guys really must have been demoralized by that BBC documentary. Dare I say that it almost...convinced you?

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MervinFerd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-27-07 08:46 AM
Response to Original message
18. "There is no reasoning with this madness."
Jeebus H Mohammed wearing a toga and carrying a torch!

You guys think the brilliant conspirators wrote a script ahead of time and sent it to the BBC to read?

"Bug fuckin' nuts".
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The Lone Groover Donating Member (654 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-27-07 08:50 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. Hey you're right...
...move along... nothing to see here.

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StrictlyRockers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-27-07 09:15 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. Yup, you are right, Mervin.
Not your thread. Nothing to see here. Move along.

SR
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StrictlyRockers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-27-07 09:17 AM
Response to Original message
22. Cool new graphic.
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-27-07 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #22
23. Eastern Daylight Time (EDT)
Can't CTers get anything right?
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StrictlyRockers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-27-07 09:31 AM
Response to Reply #23
25. Thanks for the help. I'll point the typo out to him.
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-27-07 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #25
26. Typos seem to be a trait you guys share. n/t
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StrictlyRockers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-27-07 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #26
28. Thank God we have a legion of fans helping us correct them.
And thank God typos don't make our research any less true.

Again, thank you for your contribution.

SR
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-27-07 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #28
30. Definitely count me a fan of your comedic abilities - "[your] research"?
:rofl:

What does all of this prove, SR? What does it prove?
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-27-07 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #25
32. It's not just a typo...
It's very important. If you have pull with its maker, you would do well to convince him to correct it and send it out to his entire distribution list with an explanation ASAP.

This is a crucial distinction, to wit:

It's currently 11:36am EST, and everyone on the East Coast right now would agree (insofar as their clocks are synchronized). However, it is equally true that the time is currently 12:36pm EDT. We're not putting EDT into daily use around these parts until March 11th this year. But because they are abstract conventions, EST and EDT exist at all times, and are theoretically applicable at all times. So the graphic with EST is flat-out wrong. Its falsity threw me into such a rage yesterday that I couldn't even see that the video was actually showing what the graphic purports. I won't be the only one to harp on this point. In 9/11 research, what could be more important than timelines and sequence of events?
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-27-07 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. Exactly.
Edited on Tue Feb-27-07 12:54 PM by boloboffin
Now if I were prone to conspiracy theorizing, I might think that the EST being used so prominently was a honeypot designed to trap debunkers into claiming the broadcast was an hour later because of daylight savings time. That would mean it only backfired on some CT advocates, most notably Jack Riddler -- which would be incredibly amusing if it was true.

Since I'm not so prone, I just think it's carelessness. The need to get this new word out about the latest development overrode basic fact-checking.

Exactly what happened to the BBC at 4:57 EDT, 11/09/01.
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StrictlyRockers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-27-07 09:48 AM
Response to Original message
27. High Quality DivX Version 2 NOW AVAILABLE
Edited on Tue Feb-27-07 09:54 AM by StrictlyRockers
http://stage6.divx.com/content/show/1133782?user_id=245557

High Quality DivX of Version 2 NOW AVAILABLE (450MB)

Submitted by 911veritas on Tue, 02/27/2007 - 10:25am.

Just finished version 2.

More info in this blog post : http://www.911blogger.com/node/6458#comment-119458

http://www.911blogger.com/node/6482


Very tired, so I'll be brief...

New info

- Timings now within +/- 60 seconds margin of error.
- DVD Quality
- Contains info how to verify, timings etc.
- Looks a bit tidier
- Has host and reporter names


Get it here -------> http://www.megaupload.com/?d=VL4MPLV8


Hope you all like it, if you do, please feel free to upload to Google video, youtube, liveleak etc... Share, torrent, binary newgroups.... whatever you can....


Please be active and help spread this around. It looks like it is a legitimate find.

http://stage6.divx.com/content/show/1133782?user_id=245557




SR


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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-27-07 10:07 AM
Response to Original message
29. Thanks for clearing this up
Nice post. It shows you deal in both falsifiable and verifiable assertions. Certain others in the dungeon deal only in non-falsifiable assertions, such as "oh, they could never do that."
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truthpowertruth Donating Member (133 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-27-07 10:33 AM
Response to Original message
31. props to you jack
good post.
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