Congrats CT'ers

[jberryhill]

Just charming.

[truthpowertruth]

1. I agree.

Free speech is charming.

[LARED]

2. Perhaps the point is that mixing

9/11 CT'isms with an anti-war message is not in the best interest of ending the war.

[truthpowertruth]

3. Right...

Because these rallies really make a difference in ending the war.

These rallies are for people to demonstrate their first amendment rights.

[LARED]

12. Baloney

This was an anti-war rally. You can express your 1st amendments rights 7/24/365 just about anywhere you like.

One thing for sure is that an anti-war rally sans 9/11 CT'er is clearly more effective than one with goofball 9/11 CT signs all over the news.

[Contrite]

15. On the contrary, it's a perfect match.

Since 9/11 stands as the causis belli for this "war".

[John Q. Citizen]

16. How was your protest, LARED? Where did you march?

[LARED]

20. I didn't go, did you? (n/t)

[greyl]

21. I didn't see him there. nt

[John Q. Citizen]

24. I marched here in Montana.

I'm a single dad of 3 school aged children, so I couldn't afford the time or the money to go to DC.

[Grateful for Hope]

29. Good for you, John Q

:patriot: :applause:

On edit: It is good to see a poster here who actually "walks the walk". Do you have pics of the Montana protest?

[LARED]

32. Thank you for your effort

I've been down the single Dad route. It can be difficult. Good luck

[MervinFerd]

4. Damn.

These guys remind me of the old days and the Socialist Workers Party or Young Socialist Alliance or similar Trotskyist (or whatever) Wise Asses.

Never did a God Damn bit of the work of organizing a public event. Never did any community organizing. Never saw their asses at meetings.

But Damn Sure would show up and get their sign in the middle of the press coverage.

Fuck heads.

I'm getting old.

[truthpowertruth]

5. Damn those people for showing up at publicly announced events...

Do you do this for the glory or something? Isn't it the point to get people showing up? Maybe you are getting too old.

[MervinFerd]

6. Damn people who use progressive events to stroke their personal egos.

Show up, good. Cheer the speakers, good.

Use somebody else's event to advance your own (very) peculiar set of issues: BAD.

Neither the YSA nor the Truthers ever managed to get more than 34 misfits into a room at one time. All either group could, or can, do is attach itself to serious organizing efforts to get free publicity.

Away with the lot of them!

[truthpowertruth]

7. Liberal/Progressive events aren't supposed to be issue specific.

That's what makes them different from Republican rallies. You know, variety of viewpoints.

Why does this anger you so much?

[MervinFerd]

9. Events are supposed to convince, motivate and energize, NOT

alienate, divide and confuse.

If the Truthers want to come, fine. The problem is with making the biggest sign at the event--unrelated to the event and unpopular-- and planting it right behind the speaker so it will show up on the TV.

"That's just wrong".

[jberryhill]

11. This WAS an issue specific event

It is annoying because mixing in extraneous things detracts from the issue at hand.

This was a demonstration against the war in Iraq. It was not a "Democratic" event, it was not a "progressive" event, it was a rally to oppose the proposed troop increase. It was not about abortion, taxes, or any number of other things that people might disagree about.

People here perfectly understand thread hi-jacking. Hi-jacking someone else's protest demonstration is difficult for you to understand?

[pauldp]

13. Would the war have happened without 911?

For the people who think the official account of 911 and the Commission Report are steaming piles of bullshit,
the issues of the war and 911 are inseparable. The war would not have happened without 911, neither would have
any of the other Neo Con power grabs. Even if you think the lack of response to the obvious warnings,
were merely gross incompetence or negligence, they still resulted in the
tragedy that has been used as the pretext for the war. So even an incompetence theorist could make the case
that a new investigation of 911 is the most important approach to take to help the anti-war effort.

Would you have felt better about the sign if it said "Investigate 911" instead?

[Grateful for Hope]

14. This is a well-reasoned post, pauldp

Good grief. Every other word out of Bush and Cheney's mouths was 9/11 in the lead up to the war. I like your suggestion that the sign might have been "Investigate 9/11" instead as we have no real proof of an inside job just as we have no real proof of the official story.

[William Seger]

19. Your logic is so screwy it's hard to respond to

"The war would not have happened without 911" therefore "911 was an inside job?" Oh, I see; you're just saying, "Investigate 911" and you didn't quite understand the point of the OP, or you're just trying to hijack the thread.

[pauldp]

34. Let me simplify it for you.

How does attacking Bush's justification for war hijack a war protest?
You may not agree with the statement but certainly you can understand why it would be raised at an anti-war rally right?

The reason I asked if he would have approved if the sign said "investigate 911" instead is that
some people think that is a less offensive way of attacking Bush on his keystone argument.

There is very good reason to question the official account of 911 -
The revelations in Woodward's book come to mind as an example.

But maybe you think Bush should be given a free ride on 911?

[William Seger]

40. It doesn't need "simplifying"

"Truthers" put their 9/11 "inside job" delusions ahead of ending the war in Iraq; it's as simple as that. Fine, so have your own rallies; don't make all the anti-war protesters look like a bunch of crackpots.

(Edit typo)

[jberryhill]

27. Buschco was determined to go into Iraq on any pretense

...had it not been for 9/11, then they would have found some other basis for attacking Iraq, since 9/11 was so much atmospherics relative to their central contention that Iraq was developing WMD.

Had 9/11 been an intentional pretext for invading Iraq, then they could just as easily have cooked up some connection to Iraq.

They are separate issues, and to the extent that there is not a broad consensus on 9/11 having been an "inside job", then the hi-jacking of an Iraq war protest to advocate on 9/11 issues is not productive.

[Grateful for Hope]

30. This is conjecture

the only fact we have concerning excuses for going into Iraq is 9/11. Everything else is conjecture.

[jberryhill]

35. I agree...

...and the protest was about the fact of our involvement in Iraq - not about disputed conjectures.

[Grateful for Hope]

37. I think you are slightly mixed up

fact is fact, conjecture is conjecture. It is a fact that we went to war with Iraq largely because of the bogus connection that Bushco made between Iraq and 9/11. There is nothing to dispute here.

[jberryhill]

38. Yes, there are lots of facts...

...there are facts about all sorts of things.

The rally was about the fact that we are IN Iraq, and need to get OUT of Iraq. Conflating that with 9/11 perpetuates the connection that Bushco falsely made in the first place.

[Grateful for Hope]

39. I can see where you are coming from

but, it does the opposite, IMO. It accentuates the fact that we are in Iraq under false pretences.

I like that this was accentuated.

[petgoat]

43. "they could just as easily have cooked up some connection to Iraq."

I disagree. Anything cooked up with respect to Iraq would have
been subject to the scrutiny of a skeptical world.

Afghanistan happened too fast for scrutiny and was, besides,
about the most unpopular regime in the world.

[John Q. Citizen]

17. They did a great job of conning the people who did the heavy lifting, though.

Somehow they smuggled that sign right up onto the mainstage without any of the real organizers even seeing it. I wonder how they got away with that?

Especially with you and LARED and all of the real organizers there in the thick of things watching out that the message was pure.

/sarcasm

[Twist_U_Up]

8. your right

you are getting old

[wildbilln864]

36. !

:rofl:

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[John Q. Citizen]

18. jberryhill, 9/11 was an inside job. Even if it was only Oops, journalists like

Peter Lance and Daniel Hopsicker have documented that the accused hijackers, and/or their associates got protection from within our government.

We also know that Senator Max Cleland resigned from the 9/11 Commission in disgust, and said that the 9/11 Commission was compromised.

Since foreign agents could not have compromised the 9/11 commission, we know that the people who compromised it were inside our government. Compromising the commission was an inside job.

And as pauldp posted down thread, we know that the war wasn't possible without 9/11, not in it's scope or it's speed of implementation.

So I'm not sure what your problem is with acknowledging this at an anti-Iraqi-war war protest. Apparently, the official organizers didn't feel it was bad, because they allowed the sign up on stage.

Perhaps you can tell me why you believe it would be bad?

You of course are intitled to your own contrary opinion. I would suggest that you get together with others of like mind and put on a major anti-Iraqi-war protest of your own, and of course you can decide what signs you allow up on the main stage. Good luck and let us all know when and where.

[LARED]

22. Are you saying 9/11 was in inside job by accident?

Huh?

[John Q. Citizen]

23. I'm saying it makes good sense why the organizers put the poster on stage.

If you don't agree, go hold your own "politically correct" anti-war protest.

Thanks.

[truthpowertruth]

25. Mervinferd would gladly organize that event.

The world needs more "politically correct" anti-war protests. It just makes total sense.

[John Q. Citizen]

26. Yes, that would be a sight to behold. n/t

[Grateful for Hope]

31. I agree

this would be quite a "protest".

[LARED]

33. Ok, why do you think it makes sense?

I think it distracts from the anti-war message.

BTW, how can LIHOP be an oops?

[Twist_U_Up]

28. I love it !

I want some more of it

[frylock]

41. awwwwww. gee, now the war won't end and it's because you ct'ers had to go and ruin the rally..

boo-fucking-hoo.

[Bryan Sacks]

42. LOL!!! :)

Great post

[spooked911]

44. 9/11 WAS at least partly about starting wars

why is it wrong to bring up 9/11 truth at a peace rally?

hundreds of thousands of people would still be alive if no for 9/11