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'Explosive Rings' prior to collapse--another huge smoking gun?

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nebula Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 04:04 PM
Original message
'Explosive Rings' prior to collapse--another huge smoking gun?
The following are some eyewitness testimonies recorded by the NYFD and various agencies. The most stunning thing about them are the numerous descriptions of 'explosive rings,' flashes, multiple explosions and 'pops' taking place on the lower floors prior to the tower collapses:




--------

*** Assistant Fire Commissioner Stephen Gregory: “I saw low-level flashes. In my conversation with Lieutenant Evangelista ... he questioned me and asked me if I saw low-level flashes in front of the building, and I agreed with him ... I saw a flash flash flash and then it looked like the building came down. ... You know like when they demolish a building, how when they blow up a building, when it falls down? That’s what I thought I saw.”

***Reporter John Bussey watches the collapse from the Wall Street Journal’s offices across the street from the WTC. He says, “I ... looked up out of the office window to see what seemed like perfectly synchronized explosions coming from each floor, spewing glass and metal outward. One after the other, from top to bottom, with a fraction of a second between, the floors blew to pieces.”

*** Deputy Fire Commissioner Thomas Fitzpatrick: “I remember seeing, it looked like sparkling around one specific layer of the building. ... Then the building started to come down. My initial reaction was that this was exactly the way it looks when they show you those implosions on TV.”



*** Firefighter Richard Banaciski: “It seemed like on television they blow up these buildings. It seemed like it was going all the way around like a belt, all these explosions.”


*** Firefighter Kenneth Rogers: “here was an explosion in the south tower ... I kept watching. Floor after floor after floor. One floor under another after another and when it hit about the fifth floor, I figured it was a bomb, because it looked like a synchronized deliberate kind of thing.”

*** Firefighter Joseph Meola: “As we are looking up at the building, what I saw was, it looked like the building was blowing out on all four sides. We actually heard the pops. ... You thought it was just blowing out.”


*** Paramedic Daniel Rivera: “o you ever see professional demolition where they set the charges on certain floors and then you hear ‘Pop, pop, pop, pop, pop’? That’s exactly what—because I thought it was that.”

*** Fire Chief Frank Cruthers: “here was what appeared to be at first an explosion. It appeared at the very top, simultaneously from all four sides, materials shot out horizontally. And then there seemed to be a momentary delay before you could see the beginning of the collapse.”


*** Reporter Beth Fertig: “The tower went down perfectly straight, as if a demolition crew had imploded it. I wondered if it was being brought down deliberately.”

*** Battalion Chief Dominick DeRubbio: “It was weird how it started to come down. It looked like it was a timed explosion.”

*** Battalion Chief Brian Dixon: “I was watching the fire ... the lowest floor of fire in the south tower actually looked like someone had planted explosives around it because the whole bottom I could see—I could see two sides of it and the other side—it just looked like that floor blew out. ... I thought, geez, this looks like an explosion up there, it blew out.”

*** Firefighter Timothy Burke: “Then the building popped, lower than the fire ... I was going oh, my god, there is secondary device because the way the building popped I thought it was an explosion.”

*** Firefighter Edward Cachia: “It actually gave at a lower floor, not the floor where the plane hit, because we originally had thought there was like an internal detonation explosives because it went in succession, boom, boom, boom, boom, and then the tower came down.”


*** The Guardian will report that police on the scene said the collapse “looked almost like a ‘planned implosion’ designed to catch bystanders watching from the street.” However, the National Institute of Standards and Technology, which conducts a three-year study of the WTC collapses, will reject suggestions that the WTC towers were brought down with explosives (see August 30, 2006). CTV will assert, “lashes of light that seemed to indicate bombs detonating were not explosions. They were pockets of airs being forced out of windows as the sagging floors pushed downward.”

-----


The above eyewitness accounts are from a large collection of oral histories that had been under seal by the city of New York. In 2002, the New York Times requested copies under the Freedom of Information Act. But under Mayor Bloomberg, the city of New York refused to release them.

So the Times, joined by several families of 9/11 victims, filed suit. After a long process, the city was finally ordered by the New York Court of Appeals to release the records (with some exceptions and redactions allowed). Included were oral histories, in interview form, provided by 503 firefighters and medical workers. The Times then made these oral histories publicly available.

With over 500 people interviewed, this is a pretty massive collection of stunning and rather damning eyewitness testimony. But yet, they had not been widely covered in the media. No surprise there, right? I wonder how the OCTers are going to spin this one?




Oral Histories
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 04:14 PM
Response to Original message
1. Do any of these people think it was actually a controlled demoliton?
Note my question isn't, "Do they say it looked like or sounded like a controlled demolition?"

It is, "Do any of these people TODAY think a controlled demolition took down the towers?"
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wildbilln864 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. are you asking...
her/him to read minds? :shrug:
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. No, I'm asking...
"Do any of those people TODAY say that a controlled demolition brought down the towers?"

That doesn't involve mindreading at all.
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wildbilln864 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #5
21. specifically you asked...
did they think.
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. They did think.
And on reflection, they all understand that the towers were not brought down by controlled demolition.

I recommend that everyone think on this topic.
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petgoat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-09-07 01:15 AM
Response to Reply #22
32. What is your evidence? We've been through this with you OCTers
already, with you bitterly defending the ridiculous proposition
thar Dr. Romero recanted his statements that the collapse looked
like a controlled demolition and his statements that the demolition
could have been done with a few charges.

He didn't recant that. All he recanted was his statement that fires
could not have caused the collapse.

Where is your evidence that the witnesses to explosions have declared
their belief in the official story?
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-09-07 01:39 AM
Response to Reply #32
36. Joseph Meola, Firefighter, quoted in OP
As we are looking up at the building, what I
saw was, it looked like the building was blowing out on
all four sides. We actually heard the pops. Didn't
realize it was the falling
-- you know, you heard the
pops of the building. You thought it was just blowing
out.


That's the complete quote. I've bolded the part the OP convienently left out.
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-09-07 01:49 AM
Response to Reply #32
37. Daniel Rivera, EMS, Quoted in OP
Q: SO YOU WERE OUTSIDE. YOU NEVER RAN
INSIDE A BUILDING WHEN EITHER ONE OF THE TOWERS
COLLAPSED?
A: NO. THE FIRST, SOUTH TOWER -- AFTER
THE SECOND PLANE HIT, JUST TO CLEAR THE DOORWAY,
AND THEN I CAME RUNNING BACK OUT. I DIDN'T STAY
THERE TOO LONG.
Q: AS THE COLLAPSES WERE GOING ON, YOU
NEVER --
A: NO. I WAS THINKING ABOUT GOING INTO
A BUILDING, BECAUSE AS I SAW THE FIRST BUILDING
COLLAPSE, I NOTICED THAT THE FIRST THREE OR FOUR
FLOORS, THEY WERE STILL PRETTY GOOD. THAT WAS ON
MY MIND, WOW, THEY WERE STILL PRETTY GOOD. SO
WHEN THE SECOND BUILDING COLLAPSED, I WAS
THINKING OF STANDING BETWEEN THE DOORS OF THE
SECOND COLLAPSE. SOMETHING TOLD ME NO, JUST RAN
BACK.


Rivera is pretty consistently saying "collapsed" and not "demolished".

And he actually considered seeking shelter from the North tower inside the North Tower. An unusual consideration from someone who thought the buildings were being demolished.
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-09-07 01:55 AM
Response to Reply #32
38. Dominick DeRubbio, Battalion Chief, FDNY, Quoted in OP
It was weird how it started to come
down. It looked like it was a timed explosion,
but I guess it was just the floors starting to
pancake one on top of the other.


The complete paragraph, not where the OP decided to stop quoting Chief DeRubbio.
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-09-07 01:58 AM
Response to Reply #32
39. Brian Dixon, Battalion Chief, FDNY, Quoted in OP
I looked up and you could actually see
everything blew out on the one floor. I thought,
geez, this looks like an explosion up there, it
blew out. Then I guess in some sense of time we
looked at it and realized, no, actually it just
collapsed.
That's what blew out the windows, not
that there was an explosion there but that
windows blew out.
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-09-07 02:04 AM
Response to Reply #32
41. Timothy Burke, FDNY, Quoted in OP
Another trimmed quote. Here's the original:

THEN THE BUILDING POPPED, LOWER THAN THE
FIRE, WHICH I LEARNED WAS I GUESS, THE AVIATION FUEL
FELL INTO THE PIT, AND WHATEVER FLOOR IT FELL ON HEATED
UP REALLY BAD, AND THAT'S WHY IT POPPED AT THAT FLOOR.
THAT'S THE RUMOR I HEARD, BUT IT SEEMED LIKE I WAS
GOING, OH, MY GOD, THERE IS A SECONDARY DEVICE BECAUSE
THE WAY THE BUILDING POPPED, I THOUGHT IT WAS AN
EXPLOSION.


Notice he moves from a secondary device explanation to a simple physical explanation.
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-09-07 02:06 AM
Response to Reply #32
43. Right there: Five "OP Quoted" people who now think it wasn't a CD
And the selective nature of the OP's quote mining is well on display.
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petgoat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-09-07 02:19 AM
Response to Reply #43
44. It was pretty clear, bolo, soon after 9/11 that talk about explosives
was taboo. You're leaving that out of your analysis.

When were these statements taken? Was it after Bush's
"let us not tolerate outrageous conspiracy theories" statement?

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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-09-07 04:59 AM
Response to Reply #44
45. So talking about how it was "like" explosives was fine?
But actually saying it was explosives was not fine?

Please.
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Contrite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-09-07 01:33 AM
Response to Reply #5
34. William Rodriguez does
Edited on Tue Jan-09-07 01:36 AM by Contrite
http://www.renewamerica.us/columns/spingola/050826

Something in there I didn't know before, either:

Strangely, while William was on the 33rd floor he heard lots of very loud noise as if someone was moving heavy equipment and furniture around on the 34th floor. The reason this is interesting is that the 34th floor was empty. Elevators did not stop at the 34th floor. It was off limits due to a construction project. The new security chief, John O'Neill had his new office on this floor. William said that this was the first time that he felt fear.
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-09-07 01:35 AM
Response to Reply #34
35. That's one. Bring me 199 more and you've got "hundreds".
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Contrite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-09-07 05:04 AM
Response to Reply #35
46. Two more
Lou Cacchioli -- tried to testify to 9-11 commission and walked out angry
Paul Isaac Jr. -- says firefighters and law enforcement gagged

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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-09-07 05:39 AM
Response to Reply #46
47. Um, links? And then, you've got 197 to go. n/t
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Contrite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-09-07 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #47
50. Links
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #50
51. Yay! 197 to go!
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-11-07 05:01 AM
Response to Reply #50
57. Wait a minute.
Cacchioli says this: "I somehow got into the stairwell and there were more people there, who I began to try and direct down, when another huge explosion like the first one hits. This one hits about two minutes later, although it’s hard to tell, but I’m thinking, ‘Oh. My God, these bastards put bombs in here like they did in 1993!"

That doesn't sound like he thinks it's CD.

"Then as soon as we get in the stairwell, I hear another huge explosion like the other two. Then I heard bang, bang, bang - huge bangs – and surmised later it was the floors pan caking on top of one another."

The "huge bangs" are from the south tower collapsing. Cacchioli's in the North, on about the 12th floor helping people down. The North Tower doesn't fall until he's out of it.

So is the "huge explosion" in the North or in the South Tower? Does Cacchoili even know?
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Contrite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-11-07 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #57
59. Maybe not "CD" but bombs, certainly.
Edited on Thu Jan-11-07 11:30 PM by Contrite
I assume he heard the "explosions" in his building. The "bangs" he heard he later "surmised" were the floors pancaking--no doubt after it was "suggested" to him (as it was to us all) that they did.

I interviewed Lou Cachiolli a few weeks after 911. He told me that his crew heard bombs going off inside the building (as reported in People Magazine, 9/20/01, p.34)

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/single/506978.html

Louie Cachiolli, firefighter:

"On the last trip up a bomb went off. We think there were bombs set in the building."

People Magazine - September 2001

Regardless, he now is among those who were there who believes in CD, thereby fitting the "criteria".
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Contrite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-11-07 01:31 AM
Response to Reply #47
53. NYPD First Responders
Edited on Thu Jan-11-07 02:18 AM by Contrite
http://www.snowshoefilms.com/filmmakersnb121.html

Craig Bartmer
Kevin McPadden
David Miller
Major Mike McCormick

"Numerous firemen were telling me that they heard numerous secondary explosions all over the building - these guys are seasoned firefighting professionals - a lot of them have military backgrounds and they're not stupid."

"Everybody on the planet knew that not only was the World Trade Center hit - it was totally wiped out," said McCormack.

McCormack said that around 75% of police, firemen and rescue personnel that he had personally spoke with now believe there is a cover-up pertaining to 9/11 and that many had been threatened that "if they ever open their mouth their pensions are at risk."

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5960554325625810328 (Video of McCormick)

McCormick was honored by Gov. Pataki and the White House for "heroism" on 9/ll. On September 12, 2006, his residence was raided and ransaked for 3 hours by SWAT teams.

http://prisonplanet.tv/audio/150906mccormack.mp3
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Contrite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-11-07 04:16 AM
Response to Reply #53
54. One more
Sgt. Matthew Tartaglia

http://xfactor.racknine.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=86&sid=e9406d790b2aa90d0116a43faff5e6b3

MT: That’s right, or more. I’ve been in New York many, many times as a worker, as a visitor and I have yet to see that not be the truth. So already something is wrong. In addition to which, some of the guys who I spoke to there, they know the building was pulled – just like 7 was pulled. I don’t care how many planes you fly into those World Trade Centers, if the planes themselves took it down, they would have fallen sideways – not down in an implosion type style. Not to mention, the reports from talking to people as a counselor, who told me things they didn’t even realize they were saying. They were in such a state of shock, they just said, “Well, you know, I saw this, this, this, and this,” and they are caught up in their trauma. And I’m listening to it and thinking to myself, “My God, this is a conspiracy. This is a real Pearl Harbor, modern day.”

MT: FEMA was allowed to have cameras. The police, the Port Authority, certain people who I was attached with were allowed to have cameras. And I had a camera also. After my second full day there, I just decided that it was stupid to pull that camera out unless I saw something that absolutely that could not be passed up. Mostly what you saw was evidence of an implosion.

MT: They would tackle you and take your camera away. I watched people be tackled. I’ve been officially press for a while but I’ve done some press work – you know like writing a little article - and I have never, ever, ever seen anything like that.
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-11-07 04:32 AM
Response to Reply #54
55. Wait a minute.
Tartaglia wasn't there on 9/11.
Let's be clear on what you're looking for - people who were there on 9/11, who thought there were bombs, and who still think the towers were brought down by CD.
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Contrite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-11-07 04:43 AM
Response to Reply #55
56. He was there when WTC 7 went down.
A little farther down in the interview.
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-11-07 05:15 AM
Response to Reply #56
58. OK, but the OP is about the towers...
And even then, Alex says that Matt was there, but he doesn't really confirm that. Every statement made by the man himself is consistent with him getting there after 9/11.
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Contrite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-11-07 11:14 PM
Response to Reply #58
60. Yes, but he did not contradict that, either. n/t
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nebula Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Ask them yourself. I'm not a mind reader.
Here's a better question for you:

How do you explain what all these people witnessed that day, who all saw the same thing?

And why would they change their minds about it today? Because they were under pressure from their employer, the city of New York, which worked hard to prevent their original testimonies from seeing the light of day in the first place? REgardless, they are in no position to draw conclusions about it, but they know what they saw, and now through their statements so do we.

Again, how do you explain what all these people witnessed that day, who all saw the same thing?

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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. I'm asking YOU if any of them believe CD today?
Even in your source material, the answer is clear: They don't, and most of them didn't believe CD then, even.

"Sounded like" and "looked like" doesn't mean that they thought an actual controlled demolition was happening. And it certainly doesn't mean today that they think a controlled demolition happened.

No mind reading needed whatsoever. It's very clear the answer to my question threatens your positions greatly.

People saw what looked like a controlled demolition in many respects. Once they saw the facts and had time to reflect on the matter, they realized that any fleeting resemblance to a controlled demolition was an incorrect impression.

One and all they did this. Why can't you?
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nebula Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. I already answered your question
I told you--they are in no position today to say what they thought caused what they saw.

Why must I keep repeating myself like a broken record?





I have answered yours, now why don't you answer my question??:

How do you explain what all these people witnessed that day, who apparently all saw the same thing?



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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. No, you did not.
Edited on Sun Jan-07-07 08:55 PM by boloboffin
See, I'll show you:

bolo: Do any of those people TODAY say that a controlled demolition brought down the towers?

nebula: They are in no position today to say what they thought caused what they saw.


That is not an answer to my question. It is avoiding my question by seeking to invalidate it. However, the question is a valid one. You have gathered a bunch of quotes together trying to show that the collapse was a controlled demolition. However, every person you quoted DOES NOT THINK that the buildings were brought down by CD. Every one of them knows better.

And you know they all think that the buildings collapsed due to the damage and the fires alone. That's why you have to avoid answering the question.

However, I did answer your question. See, I'll show you:

nebula: How do you explain what all these people witnessed that day, who apparently all saw the same thing?

bolo: People saw what looked like a controlled demolition in many respects. Once they saw the facts and had time to reflect on the matter, they realized that any fleeting resemblance to a controlled demolition was an incorrect impression.


That is your question answered. That is how I explain why people say they thought the collapses "looked like" and "sounded like" a controlled demolition. It DID sound and look like a controlled demolition, in many respects. I don't have a problem with saying that, because it has no bearing on what actually happened, something YOUR OWN WITNESSES agree with me on.

It is you that has a problem with their beliefs today.
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petgoat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Why would you believe them if they said they didn't? nt
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. My belief of an simple collapse (no CD) isn't reliant on their testimony alone.
It's reliant on the facts.

Only the CD hypothesis has to use "sounded like" and "looked like" testimony to suggest a controlled demolition, against the actual beliefs then and now of the people who said those things.

If any of them had testimony regarding actual bombs (saw them in place, found bomb debris afterward in the Pile), then you have something.

But "looks like" and "sounds like" does not equal "is".
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nebula Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. Again
Why don't you answer the question?
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 08:56 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. I did answer your question. n/t
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nebula Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 01:39 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. You haven't answered shit
You don't answer a simple question by responding with a question.


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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 02:43 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. No, I've answered nebula.
See my post #11. There isn't a single question in my answer to yours.
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G Hawes Donating Member (440 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 02:51 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. He did answer you
As anyone here can plainly see.

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nebula Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. Hundreds of emergency workers saw and heard
a great number of explosive flashes going off in sequence on the lower floors.

Pre-collapse VIDEO footage was taken of twisted and burned up vehicles in the parking garages.
There is pre-collapse VIDEO footage of lobbies and lower floors with all or most of their windows blown-out.

Gee, who am I to believe? Hundreds of witnesses who were at the scene and the video footage, or some OCTer who was never there?

The OCT and their supporters have no credibility. Their only strategy is to ignore anything and everything that does not support their conclusions.








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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Do any of those people think TODAY that it was a CD?
You do realize that the jet fuel blasted its way down the elevator shafts? Eyewitness testimony is also consistent in this as well.

Do any of your "hundreds of witnesses" think that the buildings were brought down by CD? If so, please provide links to these "hundreds of witnesses" who think this, because your witnesses in the OP also think that the buildings came down on their own.
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petgoat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. "You do realize that the jet fuel blasted its way down the elevator shafts?"
Edited on Mon Jan-08-07 04:56 PM by petgoat
Really? How many elevator shafts penetrated the two sky lobbies and went all
the way down?

How does jet fuel traveling horizontally at 400 mph take a sudden 90 degree turn
and fall down an elevator shaft? How come it doesn't just coat the walls of the
elevator shaft?

Do any of your "hundreds of witnesses" think that the buildings were brought
down by CD?


It appears that few of them said anything for the years their testimony was kept
secret. Why should they change that policy now? If they're anything like most of
the WTC survivors I know, they don't even want to think about what happened, let
alone stir up any controversy about it.
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. So, you got nothing. n/t
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petgoat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. That's a crass thing to say. So tell me, what about those
elevator shafts? How does a liquid traveling 400 mph make a
90% change of course to fall down an elevator shaft?
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. What?! Please.
Nothing crass about pointing out that on the subject of "hundreds of witnesses", you have absolutely none of them who think anything but the damage and the fires brought down those towers.

Well, you don't exactly have nothing. You have lots of spooky language to explain your nothing.

Funny thing about explosions - they travel in all directions.
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petgoat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. You don't know what they think. They don't know what they think.
Edited on Mon Jan-08-07 09:50 PM by petgoat
A fireball is not an explosion.

The fact that the witnesses said nothing during the years their
statements were kept secret from the press is spooky, yes.

But then walking past a man who looks like a smushed pumpkin on the
pavement makes people spooky, know what I mean?

And then there's professionalism--Don't Make Waves if You Want to Keep
Your Career.


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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. Read the witness statements in the OP!
They thought to begin with that there was a secondary device...what do they think now?

That's not mindreading, that's just reading comprehension. They think it was the damage and the planes!

Now you've got hundreds of people doing their part in the Vast 9/11 Conspiracy - Keeping Their Jobs. Ridiculous.
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Kingshakabobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-09-07 12:15 AM
Response to Reply #28
29. I thought you might get a kick out of this thread I posted in GD..
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-09-07 12:34 AM
Response to Reply #29
30. That guy's patience is an example to us all.
May we all defend reality so calmly!
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petgoat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-09-07 01:12 AM
Response to Reply #28
31. "They think it was the damage and the planes!"
How do you know? How do you know they're not just keeping their
heads down and getting on with their lives and trying to forget?
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-09-07 01:30 AM
Response to Reply #31
33. James Drury, Assistant Commissioner, FDNY:
That was the north tower now coming
down. I should say that people in the street and
myself included thought that the roar was so loud
that the explosive - bombs were going off inside
the building. Obviously we were later proved
wrong.


Sounds like they've reflected on the facts of the situation.
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petgoat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-09-07 01:59 AM
Response to Reply #33
40. Sounds like a politician talking. This is NYC, remember. nt
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-09-07 02:05 AM
Response to Reply #40
42. So Drury doesn't have his head down, he's more in on the plot?
Is that what you're saying?
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G Hawes Donating Member (440 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-09-07 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #18
49. Hundreds?
"Hundreds" of emergency workers saw & heard a "great number" of "explosive flashes" going off in sequence?

Could you please provide the specific accounts of those people who you say claimed to have seen & heard a great number of explosive flashes going off in sequence? Thank you in advance.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 03:48 AM
Response to Reply #7
17. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
angstlessk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #7
52. Bomb debris or maybe EVIDENCE of a bomb...sorry the steel was spirited
out of the city and the crime scene was not preserved. THAT is a FACT!
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nebula Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. Good answer.

Heh.
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LARED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 09:56 PM
Response to Original message
13. Here's a smoking gun for ya
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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 01:51 PM
Response to Original message
20. what would Assistant Fire Commissioners and Deputy Fire Commissioners
Edited on Mon Jan-08-07 01:51 PM by leftofthedial
and firemen know about explosions?

Clearly, you wacky tin-foil woo-woo conspiracy peddlers are grasping at straws.
















(:sarcasm:)
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SaiGirl Donating Member (11 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-09-07 06:27 AM
Response to Reply #20
48. Announcing the formation of "Los Alamos - 9/11 Truth"
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