This may be a stupid question but I would like to know

[solara]

what the current theory is on 9/11. I have my own thoughts on it of course. I was in L.A on that day and it seemed to me that the government came up with the names of the terrorists very quickly, which I thought highly suspect considering the scope of the attack. I could have been mistaken, however, since that week was pretty stunning, But, now there are many other questions I have that have not been answered.

Since that day, I have heard theories and ideas about what 'really' happened, but they are mostly disjointed, nothing really cohesive. I have watched a few of the videos linked here and read some of the posts, but there is so much that has been written, it is hard for me to get an accurate view of the 'whole' picture if there is one.

So I am wondering if anyone has connected those theories to form an alternate scenario? I apologize if this has already been discussed, but is there a link to a site that has gathered all of the information? I don't wear tin foil, but I believe that there is much more to this than we have been 'officially' told.

Thank you

[reprehensor]

1. There's a million of 'em!

Here's a good place to start;
http://st911.org/

[DrDebug]

2. My Pet Theory

In 1986 Paul Bremer was appointed Ambassador-at-Large for Counterterrorism and started to develop all kinds of plans with possible terrorists events. Even though the plans appear to have been created to prevent terrorism there is also the likelyhood that they were created for false flag terrorist events. Paul Bremer has extensive connections to the neo-conversatives, Henry Kissinger and in 1999 he becomes chairman of the National Commission on Terrorism and also joins the board of directors at Marsh Inc.

He describes his time at National Commission on Terrorism as follows in an interview at the Heritage foundation: "catastrophic terrorism ... in the event of a catastrophic attack ... tens of thousands of casualties, where the American people are going to be screaming for a response, that a President is going to want to consider using the military in some fashion ... the example we use is Pearl Harbor ..." Since Paul Bremer has made many similar remarks, there is reason to assume that he was one of the chief architects of 9/11.

Jerome Hauer worked in 1999 at the SAIC's Center for Counterterrorism Technology and Analysis. One of his task was the design of the Office of Emergency Management, an emergency command center, which Rudy Giuliani wanted to have build on the 23rd floor of 7 World Trade Center (WTC7). Even though everybody around Rudy Giuliani and Jerome Hauer ridiculed the "bunker" on the 23rd floor, the decision was made to build it.

Since this office has never been used for its intented purpose and a different command center was established and used at Pier 92, there is reason to believe that the Office of Emergency Management was used to coordinate the World Trade Center attacks since it could withstand anything and had a perfect view on both the towers and the area around World Trade Center. There is no better place and safer place to coordinate World Trade Center than the Office of Emergency Management.

Later Jerome Hauer started to work for Kroll, a company closely linked to Marsh and at present a subsidiary. Kroll has been named at least twice as a CIA front organization or a privatized CIA.

The most vital part in the 9/11 plan was getting the correct government. There are very close links between the Greenberg family (AIG, Kroll, Marsh etc.) and the Bush family and they have participated in companies like Harken Energy, Texas Rangers and Trilateral Investments among others. The Greenbergs had their own law firm called Greenberg-Traurig, currently independent but probably still has very close links.

Greenberg-Traurig represents Governor Jeb Bush and has close links to Antonin Scalia, Jack Abramoff and they represented George W. Bush in the Bush-Gore 2000 Florida election vote recount which was vital in stopping the recount.

Adnan Khashoggi is believed to be the hidden owner of Huffman Aviation and playing a major role behind the scenes in al-Cokeda, the drug running part of the intelligence community to finance black operations. Florida election official Theresa LePore was a private stewardess of Khashoggi’s private plane. Theresa LePore is the mastermind behind the butterfly ballot which presumably lead to thousands of votes from Al Gore to go to Pat Buchanan.

ChoicePoint, the company which purged the Democratic posters from the voter role, wanted to merge with Kroll, however negotiations failed for unknown reasons. They were used in 9/11 as well for the identification of the victims and were at the scene almost instantly.

One of the major goals of 9/11 was enabling the war in Afghanistan. The planning of the war had started in 2000 and was related to both an oil and gas pipeline through Afghanistan and a diminished heroin flow. Officially the restrict opium trade was blamed on the Taliban's strict interpretation of Islamic Shari. There are reasons to believe that Afghanistan didn't supply al-Cokeda any more and wanted to go into business for themselves. The Greenberg family and Adnan Khashoggi were also involved in both the oil and gas line in Afghanistan and the heroin from Afghanistan.

The United States started secret negotiations in 2001 with Afghanistan to ensure the flow of heroin and for the development of an oil and gas pipeline through Afghanistan. The secret negotiations failed. In the summer of 2001 officials threatened war against Afghanistan and in July the BBC reported that if military action would take place, it would take place before the snows started falling in Afghanistan, by the middle of October at the latest.

A lot of mergers and last moment preparations were taken place in New York. On July 24, 2001, 6 weeks prior to 9/11 Silverstein took control of the lease of all the WTC buildings following the Port Authority decision on April 26. Marvin Pierce Bush makes sure that he is no longer connected to the security of the World Trade Center.

Kroll merged with Armor Holdings thus adding two more specialized teams to their company: Defence Systems Limited, a British Private Military Contractor who protects the British Queen among others and Alpha Firm, the former top-KGB team during the cold war. With that merger they had at least four teams in their company and probably the best teams as well. AIG international reinsured the WTC buildings and made sure that their competitors got most of the reinsurance.

Louis Freeh, the director of the FBI at the time, is more or less forced out of his position and the same is done with John O'Neill, the former top anti-terrorist specialist, who gets offered a job at the World Trade Center security.

A lot of companies move into the World Trade Center who have some scandals and some other companies move out of the World Trade Center at the last moment.

Three weeks prior to 9/11 inside trading with put-options starts and is mainly focused on American Airlines, United Airlines, Marsh and numerous insurance agencies and companies with offices in the World Trade Center. From Thursday before 9/11 it reaches historic levels and is a global event.

No investigation into inside trading is made even though it is solid evidence for 9/11 preknowledge. A Canadian list of 38 companies is published and lists many companies inside the World Trade Center, defense contractors, almost all major airlines and several other companies with connections to either AIG or Citigroup (WTC7 was mainly occupied by Salomon Smith Barney who is a part of Citigroup. Deutsche Bank was the biggest inside trader of the all and that is maybe because the US CEO, "Buzzy" Krongard, is also the #3 man at the CIA, it would have been the intelligence community itself who used their own bank because they would never say who was doing it.

A wire specialist is discovered on the 84th floor of WTC2 - who is not listed on any official tenant listing and never mentions that they were there - and there are about 200 electric engineers working in the World Trade Center around the time. The Pentagon construction was performed by AMEC. Both AMEC and Tully Construction play a major role in the clean up of Ground Zero and both have specialized Controlled Demolition companies. No links to AIG have been discovered upto now.

Several war games were being played during 9/11 including one by Mr. Fulton and his CIA team who were running a pre-planned simulation to explore the emergency response issues that would be created if a plane were to strike a building.

Who needs a plane?

The main team at WTC would have comprised of Kroll and Marsh and since those companies have a privatized CIA inside, all kinds of spooks could have been added to the mix. The same could be true for Raytheon which also has an overlap, however EVERYTHING was probably privatized, so no government agencies, since that would endanger deniability.

9/11 started at WTC1, because that was on Marsh's own territory and if that failed, it could be called a weird accident and that's it. Rudy Giulani and all the others establish an emergency center at Pier 92.

In Rudy's own words for the 9/11 Commission: "The reason Pier 92 was selected as a command center was because on the next day, on September 12, Pier 92 was going to have a drill, it had hundreds of people here, from FEMA, from the Federal Government, from the State, from the State Emergency Management Office, and they were getting ready for a drill for biochemical attack. So that was gonna be the place they were going to have the drill. The equipment was already there, so we were able to establish a command center there, within three days, that was two and a half to three times bigger than the command center that we had lost at 7 World Trade Center."

The next attacks were at WTC2 and the Pentagon since both were more difficult. Because the "impacts" on both WTC1 and WTC2 were in control of the Greenberg family especially WTC1 which was under full control by Marsh, there is the question whether planes are necessary. So I prefer the no-plane option, however they could have installed a plane magnet or a homing beacon at their offices to ensure a perfect hit (personally I think that there never were any planes). The 767/757 scenario is very unlike. Either there were no planes or it were Global Hawk-like missile with a specific homing beacon in WTC/ Pentagon.

WTC1 and WTC2 were destroyed with a Controlled Demolition to hide any evidence and after the whole game had been played WTC7 was pulled also because it contained the command center for the attacks.

Rudi Giulani and his team immediately set out to ship off all the debris without any investigation. The Bush administration immediately blaims al-Qaeda for the attacks and wants to implicate Saddam Hussein as well for another war in Iraq. The attack is blamed on the drug dealers working for their own organizations since they were Arabs and could be used as Muslim extremists. The Bush administration had no intention of investigating 9/11 since any investigation could turn up wrong doing.

The bin Laden family and all the other Saudis were the only people allowed to fly out of the United States.

Edwin Meese and Paul Bremer co-chaired the Heritage Foundation's Homeland Security Task Force, which created a blueprint for the Department of Homeland Security and a company associated with Paul Bremer offering privatized Homeland Security already registered the required domain prior to 9/11. The Bush administration immediately approves of their plans.

The United States, with support from the United Kingdom, Australia, Canada, the Northern Alliance and many more nations, invaded Afghanistan on October 7, 2001 as part of its War on Terra campaign. It should be noted that it is completely impossible to launch a full scale war with extremely detailed plans on such a short notice. In 2002, Opium production was back to a pre-war level of 3,400 tons and the construction of the oil and gas pipeline had started.

Because of tremendous pressure to launch an investigation into 9/11, a commission headed by Henry Kissinger was proposed, however nobody trusts a guy for whom a case for Crimes against Humanity exists and who can't leave the United States anymore.

A Kean Commission was used instead with close links to Condi Rice, Warren Buffett and Fiduciary Trust (one of the companies in WTC2). The commission piles lie upon lie and Dr. David Ray Griffin has found 115 lies. http://globalresearch.ca/articles/DAV504A.html demonstrates with mathematical techniques that the official acccount on 9/11 is simply not true based on a limited of lies. Applying David Griffin's research would result in a probability of correctness which is astronomically small.

On March 20, 2003 a war against Iraq was launched based on the 9/11 attacks without any evidence of wrong doing. Paul Bremer later became the Ambassador of Iraq and under his reign the insurgency started to spin out of control.

This story is based on the investigation into 9/11 called Who Killed John O'Neill. Further reading and references are available on a thread somewhere below in this forum (I'm too lazy to find it). This summary is about showing a plausible explanation of 9/11 based on the stories and facts discovered thus far.

[Nozebro]

6. The "lareds" are wise to avoid trying to refute the substance of your post

Thanks, Dr. D. - this is one of the most thought-provoking, powerful narratives I've ever read about 9/11. Bremer shrewdly eschews describing a future attack (against certain U.S. targets) as being MILITARY in nature, yet it's very difficult (at least for me) to conceive of such a monstrous attack (like he talks about) as being even theoretically possible unless it was a military attack...or
FALSE FLAG U.S. operation.

EVERYONE here should read and THINK about the information you have provided.

[DrDebug]

7. It's been ignored for four months now

Nobody even attempted to debunk the story. In the meantime it has been published on onlinejournal and the-cat-bird-seat, so it already received some publicity on some sites. I still think that it's definitely a hypothesis with lots of potential.

Bremer made many similar remarks and even a remark about a terrorist attack where three targets are blown with explosives. As in WTC1 / WTC2 and Pentagon??

[LARED]

19. If there is nothing else I've learn here is that

refuting pure speculation disguised as "substance" is a waste of time.

[DrDebug]

20. It's called pure fact. And you cannot refute that n/t

[LARED]

21. There is substantial difference between facts,

substance, and speculation. For a very small example

Since Paul Bremer has made many similar remarks, there is reason to assume that he was one of the chief architects of 9/11.

There is no better place and safer place to coordinate World Trade Center than the Office of Emergency Management.

ChoicePoint, the company which purged the Democratic posters from the voter role, wanted to merge with Kroll, however negotiations failed for unknown reasons. They were used in 9/11 as well for the identification of the victims and were at the scene almost instantly.

The next attacks were at WTC2 and the Pentagon since both were more difficult. Because the "impacts" on both WTC1 and WTC2 were in control of the Greenberg family especially WTC1 which was under full control by Marsh, there is the question whether planes are necessary. So I prefer the no-plane option, however they could have installed a plane magnet or a homing beacon at their offices to ensure a perfect hit (personally I think that there never were any planes). The 767/757 scenario is very unlike. Either there were no planes or it were Global Hawk-like missile with a specific homing beacon in WTC/ Pentagon.

it goes on and on

[DrDebug]

22. And those are valid conclusions built on fact

But then again you are a tireless defender of Bush's OCT, so you are back on ignore.

[LARED]

23. I've not defended the so called OCT

Show me anywhere I have done that. I am simply trying to point out the problems with your theory.

[Nozebro]

24. What's odd is some1 that still PROMOTES the OCT, after all these years

of accumulated evidence and logic that not only disproves the OCT, but shows it is an intentional lie to cover up the fact that 9/11 was a False Flag operation.

[solara]

8. Sad that this makes so much sense

Unbelieveably cold blooded and sickening.

But I don't understand the theory that there were no planes...does that mean no planes at all? Not in NY, DC or PA? How are the videos explained then? I know about CGI, but werent there videos shot by civilians which showed the planes hitting the buildings? And what about the people on the planes? What happened to them?

[DrDebug]

9. It's not totally clear

Therefore I said "I prefer no-planes." WTC1 was clearly a manipulated video which also appeared a lot later. Since the WTC1 impact exactly matched Marsh, it would have most likely have been explosives and then the creation of a video and planting some "eye witnesses."

WTC2 is a lot more difficult. There are plenty of indications that the videos have been manipulated ( Spooked911's blog has extensive documentation on that subject: http://covertoperations.blogspot.com/ ) However there some unexplained things either way, so maybe it was something with planes drawn over it. There would also have been genuine eye witnesses because people would have noticed it, so it could have been a missile or a Global Hawk or a plane which didn't hit the building and then image manipulation to solve it.

The Pentagon is clear. It is either a missile or it were explosives. The video which was provided shows nothing except for a blur, so that could never have been a big Boeing.

The people on the plane is a different story. There are indications that some would have survived and that the planes landed, however I think that most people are probably dead and the people on the planes were not a random group either and included many people for which there was an argument for the people to disappear.

The flight analysis:
Flight 11

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=125&topic_id=97987&mesg_id=100019

Flight 175

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=125&topic_id=97987&mesg_id=100035

Flight 77

http://www.thewebfairy.com/killtown/flight77.html

Flight 93

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=125&topic_id=97987&mesg_id=99991

[DoYouEverWonder]

27. In regards to Paul Bremer

Does anyone know his whereabouts on 9-11-01?

I've been collecting first hand accounts from the key players of their behavior and actions on that day, but I don't have anything on Bremer.

Thanks

[DrDebug]

28. I could find nothing either. Which is weird since his office was on WTC 2 impact n/t

[DoYouEverWonder]

29. What a bunch of nice folks running Marsh

They think losing 295 employees is a modest disruption and see the attack has a business opportunity. Another win-win for the bad guys.


Wall Street Journal, November 15, 2001

<snip>

Modest Disruption

From a business perspective, the disaster caused only modest disruption for Marsh, which has 57,000 employees world-wide. On the evening of Sept. 11, Mr. Davis, Marsh's vice chairman and chief of its MMC Capital arm, sent a fax to Mr. Greenberg's home that accounted for the unit's employees -- they were all safe -- and suggested the formation of a new subsidiary that would underwrite corporate policies. "We were absolutely thinking about the impact and what the opportunities were in front of us," says Mr. Davis, who came to Marsh from Goldman Sachs three years ago.

At a Sept. 18 meeting, 20 executives from Marsh's operating companies discussed the new terrain in their industry. Participants noted the premium increases already being announced and cancellations of terrorism coverage. Policy-holder demand was as strong as ever, meaning prices could only rise.

There was strong support for Mr. Davis's idea for a new company. It wouldn't be the first time Marsh gave birth to an underwriter. In the mid-1980s, it launched Ace Ltd. and Exel Capital, now known as XL. Those moves came in response to some established insurers ceasing to write liability coverage in the wake of huge jury awards for asbestos-related illnesses and big judgments against corporate directors and officers. Both Ace and XL went on to become publicly traded. Marsh retains small stakes in them.

Marsh raised its initial fundraising plan for the new carrier by 50%, to $1.5 billion. But that still wasn't enough to accommodate all of the investors lining up for a piece of the action. GE's GE Asset Management unit and TIAA-CREF, the national teachers' pension-fund manager, were among those allowed to buy stakes. Many others were turned away.

As the investor list was being winnowed, Mr. Greenberg was stirring another pot. He called L. Paul Bremer, a former U.S. ambassador at large for counterterrorism, who had joined Marsh a year earlier. "Funny you should ask," Mr. Bremer says he responded to Mr. Greenberg's query about new business opportunities.

Mr. Bremer had been working on a plan for a crisis-consulting practice for several months. "It was clear to both of us that he should accelerate the introduction of that practice," Mr. Greenberg says.

On Oct. 11, Marsh announced the formation of a new consulting unit, with Mr. Bremer at its head. Two weeks later, Marsh unveiled a partnership between its new unit and Versar Inc., a counterterrorism-service provider. The partnership will assess chemical and bioterrorism risks for corporate clients.

http://72.14.209.104/search?q=cache:z5lGKXJQnYsJ:www.howdarethey.org/news/insurance/oster11-15-01.htm+%22Jeffrey+W.+Greenberg%22+world+trade+center&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=17&client=firefox-a

[JackRiddler]

40. Wow...

Now that's weird. Please source this. Thanks.

[DrDebug]

41. Source

CNN CROSSFIRE

America's New War: How Should America Respond to Terrorist Aggression?

Aired September 14, 2001 - 19:30 ET

BILL PRESS, CO-HOST: Mr. Bremer, as Americans all of us feel as if we've been victims or wounded by these attacks, even though not directly. For you there was a very direct, personal toll. Your company, Marsh-McLennan, located in the south tower of the World Trade Center. How badly were you hurt and what is your company -- how are you dealing with this?

(...)

PRESS: Your office was located in the south tower? Where?

BREMER: Most of the people who were missing were in the south tower. The high floors above -- really, at the place and above where the second aircraft hit.

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0109/14/cf.00.html

Two World Trade Center floor 85 and 86 to be exact.

[newworld]

33. Interesting....

I'll have to read the whole thing later.

[rman]

3. Personally i don't think coming up with an alternate scenario

is of primary importance - it does not change anything about the credibility of the OCT.

[spooked911]

4. Quick summary

The towers were blown by high-tech means

The hijackings and plane-crashes were a hoax

[RedSock]

5. # of researchers = # of theories

it seemed to me that the government came up with the names of the terrorists very quickly, which I thought highly suspect

that was what got me asking questions also.

there are as many theories or ideas as there are researchers. since pretty much all we can do is point out the many lies, contradictions and inconsistencies in the OCT -- and try to get more and more people aware of these facts and asking questions -- i would be extremely wary of anyone who tells you "what really happened".

i doubt any two 9/11 researchers see things 100% the same way.

[medienanalyse]

42. "i doubt any two 9/11 researchers see things 100% the same way."

What do you mean by things ? About CTs or OCT I agree.

But the facts are claer:

PNAC whishing a "Pearl Habor" of the 21. century - and getting it and using it just in the way which was planned. The names (Kristol, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz and so on are clear)

No fighter jets scrambled against all SOPs.

No coordination, responsibility taken on 9/11 in the morning by ANY member of the administration.

AAL77 hitting the Pentagon just there where it was mostly empty and mostly reinforced, the WTC being hit where the offices of Boeing and Raytheon were.

No bodies of alleged "hijackers" identified at all, no evidence at all.

Thousands of faked stories which are already proven as bullshit.

And so on.

The only point where reasonable people are lamenting about is the socalled "physical evidence" bullshit. That is the FUNCTION of it and it still works. The above findings are enough to impeach the Bush administration. But the idiots amongst us tals about melting steel and holes which do not fit in their imagination.

That is the simple situation.

[quicknthedead]

10. Here are 3 simple yet powerful ones you can look at.

Just to get you going, here are 3 quick ones, smoking guns about what really happened that day (i.e., no one has been able to refute the specific facts listed in these yet):

Observe the the obvious controlled demolition of WTC7
http://killtown.911review.org/video/wtc7/wtc7_cbs_closeup.mpeg

Observe and analyze for yourself the scientific sound analysis found inside the movie "9/11 Eyewitness"
{Go in 44 mins 30 secs}
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3498980438587461603

Read this paper found at Scholars for 9/11 Truth:
“Seismic Proof – 9/11 Was An Inside Job (Updated Version II)”
Link: http://worldtradecentertruth.com/volume/200609/SeismicFurlong.doc
By Craig T. Furlong & Gordon Ross
Scholars for 9/11 Truth: http://www.st911.org/

Plane Impact Times – Indicting New Evidence of 9/11 Coverup & Involvement
Summary:

One World Trade, September 11th, 2001
American Airlines Flight 11
8:46:40 UTC - FAA last primary radar contact
8:46:30 UTC - LDEO/NIST
Both times: real, accurate to the second

Q- What caused the 8:46:30 seismic event ~10 seconds before the aircrash?
A- The only possibility...huge explosion(s).

Q- Who caused these explosions?

Notes:
Ginny Carr audiotape ~9.2 second gap between initial explosion and aircrash.
The 9/11 Commission avoided the time of the initial seismic event.
The 9/11 Commission avoided the many witnesses who testified of explosions in the basements before the plane crashed, and NIST avoided the witnesses as well.
NIST avoided the 9/11 Commission’s time of the aircrash.

Demand a new 9/11 investigation now, THIS TIME ONE WITH TEETH.

Justice waits.

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[solara]

12. Thank you all for posting answers to my question

I see now that the initial resistance I had regarding my intuitive reactions to the events of 9/11 has been quite naive. The little I have read of this extremely disturbing information already resonates as far more likely the truth than the 'official' accounting.

What an infinite and terrible nightmare our history has become. In my darkest imaginings about what this administration might do, I would never have conceived the possibility that they or any American could sink to such corrupt depravity and cold blooded cynicism. (Edit) On further reading - again I am confounded...it just gets darker, doesn't it?

:cry:

[petgoat]

13. The mirror image of "The Big Lie" is "The Big Truth"

The Big Lie is a lie so grandiose and specific people assume it's true.

The Big Truth such as 9/11 is a truth so huge that people can't imagine
it's true.

[DrDebug]

14. To the Bandulus in Babylon, all's a lie although divine.

Since you use the devil as your avatar, meet the real devils.

Full document with permission from author (Jeff)

They said what's up is down, they said what isn't, is.
They put ideas in his head that he thought were his
- Bob Dylan, "Clean Cut Kid"

You may have heard of Hasan Sabbah, the 11th Century "Old Man of the Mountains," who led a secret society of militant Ismaili Muslims in what is now northern Iran. Members of the sect called themselves fedayeen, but as often happens in history, the name their opponents coined is the one with which they're stuck: Hashshashin, or assassins, after the hashish Sabbah plied them with to provide visions of the "garden of earthly delights" that would follow upon a martyr's death.

Now here's something about Sabbah and his followers I didn't know until recently, from Mandelbaum's The Psychic Battlefield:

Through the various degrees of initiation into the assassins, the followers were force-fed dogma, until they reached the ninth degree of initiation, where they learned that the prior teachings were false. "Prophets and teacher, heaven and hell were all nothing, future bliss and misery were idle dreams." Small wonder that the majority of the actual killers of the assassins were those who themselves had never undergone initiation.

It is from the assassin's secret doctrines that we have the expression "Nothing is true, and everything is permitted."

This appears to be an important and not uncommon dynamic of secret societies at the highest grades of initation. (Or at least so far as the uninitiated can tell, given their secrecy.) The hidden knowledge reserved for the final degrees seems often to stand the earlier teaching on its head. God can turn out to be the devil, and the devil your elder brother Lucifer. You thought you were illuminated? Here's your illumination for ya, right here.

The significance of this secret moral inversion could be found in the question begged by the case for an elite paedophilic cult: How could something so incredible be so pervasive, and operate internationally with the protection of professionals, judiciary and government officials? Perhaps because the bottom-heavy pyramid structure of secret societies provides numerous lower-order cadres who serve ends which are the absolute inverse of those they suppose. Just perhaps.

We can't know which of the charges against the Templars were legitimate, and which manufactured to destroy the Order, but knights of the highest rank were accused of secret doctrines which entailed devil worship and black magick. Similar charges have been levelled for years against the Templars' heirs in speculative Freemasonry. And regardless of the charges validity, there do appear to be inversions of values in the higher degrees. In Inside the Brotherhood, Martin Short has this to say about the order of the Holy Royal Arch, "Freemasonry's self-styled 'Supreme Degree'":

To join...a Mason must already have reached the third degree in the Craft, but if he goes no further he is no ther Mason's inferior. His Master Mason's ritual tells him he knows all the fundamental secrets....Safe within its 'Chapters', the Royal Arch dismisses the Craft's third degree as incomplete and its secrets as sham.... All the rest are unaware that there tongues might have been torn out and throats cut across just for betraying 'secrets' which are bogus, even by Masonic standards.

One of the Royal Arch's secrets is the "Grand Omniforic Royal Arch Word," Jahbulon, which is inscribed upon three sides of a triangle on Royal Arch altars, and appears to be the "Sacred and Mysterious Name" of God. The name is a contraction of Jehovah, Baal and On, or Heliopolis, the centre of Egyptian sun worship. The word cannot be spoken outside the temple, on pain, it is said, of having one's brains exposed to the sun.

Short also tells how, when England's two Grand Masonic Lodges were united in 1816, the rituals were revised to eliminate overtly Christian references, except for the phrase "the morning star," which is said to be derived from a reference to Jesus in Revelation 22:16. But the most common biblical meaning of "Morning Star" is as a synonym for Lucifer:

Is it possible that the Morning Star remained in the rituals, not by mistake, but as a deliberate but cryptic Masonic reference to Lucifer? If so, this would invert the meaning of a crucial section of the third-degree ritual: '...the Lord of Life will enable us to trample the King of Terror beneath our feet, and lift our eyes to that bright Morning Star, whose rising brings peace and salvation to the faithful and obedient of the human race.' To the men who drew up this ritual in 1816, who was the Lord of Life and who the King of Terror? Could God be Lucifer, and Lucifer God? Might they be sitting in each other's seats? Are Masons today inadvertently worshipping the devil instead of a benign God?

On July 14, 1889, Albert Pike, the "Grand Commander, Sovereign Pontiff" of Scottish Rite Freemasonry in the United States allegedly issued these instructions to 23 Scottish Rite Supreme Councils throughout the world (again from Short):

That which we must say to the crowd is - we worship a God, but it is the God that one adores without superstition. To you, Sovereign Grand Inspectors General, we say this, that you may repeat it to the Brethren of the 32nd, 31st and 30th degrees - the Masonic Religion should be, by all of us initiates in the high degrees, maintained in the purity of the Luciferian Doctrine. ...

Thus the doctrine of Satanism is a heresy; and the true and pure philosophical religion is the belief in Lucifer, the equal of Adonay; but Lucifer, God of Light and God of Good is struggling for humanity against Adonay, the God of Darkness and Evil.

Now consider the Ordo Templi Orientis, which was founded in the late 19th Century as a hermetic branch of Freemasonry, which goes the Royal Arch one - and perhaps many more - better. At least according to The Secret Rituals of the O.T.O., edited and introduced by Francis King, and the "Song of the Perfect Initiate":

How the Simple Mason plies
Tool to Temple, See it rise!
Princes of Jerusalem,
How we mock and scoff at them!

Boaz broken,
Jachin gone,
Freely spoken
Jahbulon,
All above
Is overthrown
For the love
Of Babalon.

Lend a hand, my trusty brother!
While there stand upon another
Of their Temple still a stone
Give the grip of Abaddon!

Split the skull! On guard the sword!
Earth be null and heaven abhorred!
All’s a lie, although divine —
Give annihilation’s Sign!

There's the bottom-heavy pyramid, celebrated in song, by those who regard themselves as near the capstone.

Finally, let's look at Opus Dei, the flagellate lay Catholic cult. Members are expected to mortify the flesh with devices such as the cilice, a "spiked chain worn around the upper thigh for two hours each day," to whip themselves to the point of drawing blood, to sleep on the floor once a week, and perform various other practices of physical and mental self-abuse. But consider what former member John Roche says in "Whips, Spiked Garters and Bloodshed - My Terrifying Life in Ruth Kelly's Religious Sect", which first appeared in The Mail on Sunday January 23 (Ruth Kelly is the UK's new education secretary): "Many members are upright Christians but the ethos of its higher levels is deeply secretive, often dishonest, oppressive and psychologically damaging to its members and families."

Justice Antonin Scalia, you may recall, is Opus Dei. How does the mortification of the flesh jibe with his bizarre message last Fall to an audience at Harvard University: "I even take the position that sexual orgies eliminate social tensions and ought to be encouraged" In other words, could Opus Dei be another secret society in which those who have attained the highest degree are privy to a secret wisdom, which inverts the teachings of the lower orders?

After having progressed through flagellation and mortification - which without a supposed spiritual purpose resembles nothing so much as simple sexual masochism - could the final lesson of Opus Dei be, like that of the Hashshashin, Nothing is true, and everything is permitted?

Hiding in plain sight has never been so good.

http://rigorousintuition.blogspot.com/2005/04/whats-up-is-down-what-isnt-is.html

[solara]

15. Connecting the dots....

The Truth, wherever it leads, is about more than politics or morality

Thank you for that link

[bobbieinok]

30. Strauss, the teacher of the PNACers, also taught there are 2 levels

There is religion, for the uniniated, and the 'truth' for the elite. This would mean that the religious right provides the foot soldiers and the PNAC elite, knowing the 'truth,' guides the peons.

Below is a positive view of Strauss (from Horowitz' on-line journal??).

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=1233

Leo Strauss, Conservative Mastermind
By Robert Locke
FrontPageMagazine.com | May 31, 2002


IN CONTEMPORARY American intellectual life, there is only one school of conservative intellectuals that has taken root in academia as a movement. They are the Straussians, followers of the late Leo Strauss (1899-1973). The hostile New Republic referred to Straussians as "one of the top ten gangs of the millennium." Strauss is an ambiguous, sometimes even troubling, figure, but he is essential to the conservative revival of our time and he offers the intellectual depth we are so desperately in need of. As a crude measure of his importance for those readers who continue to believe that philosophical matters are of no practical importance, consider the following list of his students or students of his students: Justice Clarence Thomas; Supreme Court nominee Robert Bork; Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz; former Assistant Secretary of State Alan Keyes; former Secretary of Education William Bennett; Weekly Standard editor and former Quayle Chief of Staff William Kristol; Allan Bloom, author of The Closing of the American Mind; former New York Post editorials editor John Podhoretz; former National Endowment for the Humanities Deputy Chairman John T. Agresto; and, not meaning to class myself with this august company but in the interests of full disclosure, myself.

The great significance of Strauss for mainstream conservatives is that his is the deepest philosophical analysis of what is wrong with liberalism. Technocratic, legalistic, and empirical criticism of liberalism is all very well, but it is not enough. He believes that contemporary liberalism is the logical outcome of the philosophical principles of modernity, taken to their extremes. In some sense, modernity itself is the problem. Strauss believed that liberalism, as practiced in the advanced nations of the West in the 20th century, contains within it an intrinsic tendency towards relativism, which leads to nihilism. He first experienced this crisis in his native Germany’s Weimar Republic of the 1920s, in which the liberal state was so ultra-tolerant that it tolerated the Communists and Nazis who eventually destroyed it and tolerated the moral disorder that turned ordinary Germans against it. A Jew, he fled Germany in 1938. We see this problem repeated today in the multiculturalism that sanctions the importation into the West of Moslem fundamentalists whose foremost aim is the destruction of the Western society that makes that tolerance possible, and in an America so frightened of offending anyone that it refuses to carry out the basic duty of any normal state to guard its own borders.

....


The key Straussian concept is the Straussian text, which is a piece of philosophical writing that is deliberately written so that the average reader will understand it as saying one ("exoteric") thing but the special few for whom it is intended will grasp its real ("esoteric") meaning. The reason for this is that philosophy is dangerous. Philosophy calls into question the conventional morality upon which civil order in society depends; it also reveals ugly truths that weaken men’s attachment to their societies. Ideally, it then offers an alternative based on reason, but understanding the reasoning is difficult and many people who read it will only understand the "calling into question" part and not the latter part that reconstructs ethics. Worse, it is unclear whether philosophy really can construct a rational basis for ethics. Therefore philosophy has a tendency to promote nihilism in mediocre minds, and they must be prevented from being exposed to it. The civil authorities are frequently aware of this, and therefore they persecute and seek to silence philosophers. Strauss shockingly admits, contrary to generations of liberal professors who have taught him as a martyr to the First Amendment, that the prosecution of Socrates was not entirely without point. This honesty about the dangers of philosophy gives Straussian thought a seriousness lacking in much contemporary philosophy; it is also a sign of the conviction that philosophy, contrary to the mythology of our "practical" (though sodden with ideology and quick to take offense at ideas) age, matters.

Strauss not only believed that the great thinkers of the past wrote Straussian texts, he approved of this. It is a kind of class system of the intellect, which mirrors the class systems of rulers and ruled, owners and workers, creators and audiences, which exist in politics, economics, and culture. He views the founding corruption of modern political philosophy, which hundreds of years later bears poisonous fruit in the form of liberal nihilism, to be the attempt to abolish this distinction. It is a kind of Bolshevism of the mind.

Some dispute whether Straussian texts exist. The great medieval Jewish Aristotelian Moses Maimonides admitted writing this way. I can only say that I have found the concept fruitful in my own readings in philosophy. On a more prosaic level, even a courageous editor like my own can’t print certain things, so I certainly write my column in code from time to time, and other writers have told me the same thing.

....

The interesting question is why Strauss chose to "spill the beans" about Straussian texts if they are supposed to remain a secret. The answer is that he felt he had to, given the severity of our crisis. Admittedly, the concept of the Straussian text is one susceptible to intellectual mischief in the form of wild claims about the esoteric meaning of texts, not to mention rather off-putting for anyone who doesn’t like know-it-all elites. But before getting too huffy about this elitist view of the good society, it is best to remind oneself that it is strikingly similar to the view cultivated for centuries by the Catholic and Orthodox churches and by Orthodox Judaism, not to mention other religions: there is a small number of men who know the detailed truth; the masses are told what they need to know and no more. Free inquiry outside the bounds of revelation is dangerous. And yet Strauss practiced free inquiry and taught anyone who could afford the tuition at the University of Chicago how to do so. Clearly he is not just an elitist trying to return to the past that he claims existed; he strongly hints this is impossible anyway.

....

Strauss believed that the great competitor of philosophy is revealed religion. ... He believed that religion was the great necessity for ordinary men. For him, religion is in essence revealed law, ... For him, religion is at bottom simply dogmatic and unapologetic about it. It is not quite credo quia absurdum est, but it is a very bright line in the sand. Nietzsche was right: man needs lies. Or, as we saw above, maybe some men don’t.

....

...What is undeniable is that he did see the United States as the most advanced case of liberalism and therefore the most susceptible to the nihilism he dedicated his life to fighting. But he also saw the United States as partly founded on the classical and Biblical political wisdom that offered an answer. There is no doubt that he saw the United States as the world’s only hope. One of the lessons we can draw from him is that the essence of liberal modernity is so problematic that America cannot afford for its essence to be liberal modernity, whether that liberalism takes Lockean, classical (in the sense of 19th Century) or postmodern form.

....

...Straussians talk in a kind of code to one another. When one refers to someone as a "gentleman," it means they are a morally admirable person but not capable of philosophy. They network in academia and in Washington and find one another jobs. A lot of their academic money comes from the John Olin Foundation. This is the inside dope on them; I don’t find it particularly damning, as the Left seems to.

more....

[bobbieinok]

31. Perpetual deception of the citizens by those in power is critical (in Strauss's view)

Below is part of an interview with SDrury, whom Locke attacks as the left's hit-(wo)man against Strauss.

http://www.fpif.org/commentary/2003/0305strauss_body.html

The Strong Must Rule the Weak: A Philosopher for an Empire
By Jim Lobe | May 12, 2003

Is U.S. foreign policy being run by followers of an obscure German Jewish political philosopher whose views were elitist, amoral, and hostile to democratic government?

....

"Perpetual deception of the citizens by those in power is critical (in Strauss's view) because they need to be led, and they need strong rulers to tell them what's good for them."

"The Weimar Republic (in Germany) was his model of liberal democracy for which he had huge contempt," added Drury. Liberalism in Weimar, in Strauss's view, led ultimately to the Nazi Holocaust against the Jews. Like Plato, Strauss taught that within societies, "some are fit to lead, and others to be led," according to Drury. But, unlike Plato, who believed that leaders had to be people with such high moral standards that they could resist the temptations of power, Strauss thought that "those who are fit to rule are those who realize there is no morality and that there is only one natural right, the right of the superior to rule over the inferior." For Strauss, "religion is the glue that holds society together," said Drury, who added that Irving Kristol, among other neoconservatives, has argued that separating church and state was the biggest mistake made by the founders of the U.S. republic.

"Secular society in their view is the worst possible thing," because it leads to individualism, liberalism, and relativism, precisely those traits that might encourage dissent, which in turn could dangerously weaken society's ability to cope with external threats. "You want a crowd that you can manipulate like putty," according to Drury.

....

"Strauss thinks that a political order can be stable only if it is united by an external threat," Drury wrote in her book. "Following Machiavelli, he maintains that if no external threat exists, then one has to be manufactured. Had he lived to see the collapse of the Soviet Union, he would have been deeply troubled because the collapse of the 'evil empire' poses a threat to America's inner stability."

"In Strauss' view, you have to fight all the time (to survive)," said Drury. "In that respect, it's very Spartan. Peace leads to decadence. Perpetual war, not perpetual peace, is what Straussians believe in." Such views naturally lead to an "aggressive, belligerent foreign policy," she added.

....

Drury suggests it is ironic, but not inconsistent with Strauss' ideas about the necessity for elites to deceive their citizens, that the Bush administration defends its anti-terrorist campaign by resorting to idealistic rhetoric. "They really have no use for liberalism and democracy, but they're conquering the world in the name of liberalism and democracy," she said.

[DrDebug]

32. And in many cases the true meaning is exactly as is written

Take those remarks by Paul Bremer, they describe a 9/11 type event or a statement like "crisis consulting practice specializing in terrorism, with Ambassador L. Paul Bremer as Chairman." (Odd that the statement can no longer be found on the Marsh website because it was still present on July 2006, but somehow the page has gone missing...)

They do not even try to hide it, because most people do not even dare to read what it says.

An example of a codeword is the word m.u.r.k.y. I am 100% sure that whenever you see that word in a press release or any webpage it refers to a CIA/Intelligence operation. During the WKJO investigation I stumbled on that word so many times that it simply defies coincidence. And the cute part is that once you figured that out, you can simply search for the word, because it is a pretty rare word in general unless it refers to intelligence operations / rogue persons.

The brilliance is that the word literally describes what secret services are all about and an additional bonus is that you can use that word as a filter at the Internet Backbone Exchanges and immediately - and low tech - get an overview of all the people who are studying intelligence operations.

[TheCentepedeShoes]

16. IMHO there are no dumb questions

I lurk on this forum alot but don't contribute much. There are others who have done so much more research than I can hope to do.

Two things I keep thinking about:

IIRC it was about noon-ish on 9/12 that I first saw the names and pictures of the "19 hijackers." Thought that was a little two quick, too, unless you're just picking Arab-appearing names from the flight manifests and matching up with Arab-looking pictures. Gotta blame this on somebody quick to look like they're on the job.

The controlled demo of the towers. Mr 'pede and I watched the collapse of the towers on TV. He's not a structural engineer or architect, but, because of a certain project he was involved with in the mid '70's, had visited the towers several times and had a good idea of the construction. His personal theory is that the steel was weakened (not necessarily "melted") just enough to allow the four inch concrete slab of each floor to create the pancake effect. My problem is with the total collapse of the core where, as I understand, the banks of elevators were housed. I can see the slabs and the steel and glass exo-skelton coming down, but not the total core.

[solara]

17. Yes, finding the names -and- the pictures so soon seemed very unlikely

but no one else seemed to question it at all. I kept expecting someone, some investigative reporter to mention it (that was also when I still believed that there was such a thing as real integrity in news reporting). None of it rang true to me. But, there was all that national fervor going on and everyone, even my 'anti-Bush' friends, were rallying around the President, so I kept my own counsel about what I was feeling.

I really thought there must be something wrong with me to be so suspicious in the midst of such an enormous national tragedy. It is also interesting to recall that at the time, and for some unknown reason, I even questioned what I was seeng with my own eyes as the networks showed the second hit and the collapse of the WTC towers over and over again. I think I just assumed that like most Americans, I was still in shock.

I am very grateful for the information and answers shared here by the folks who have taken the time to research and investigate the events of 9/11.

"...murder cannot be hid long ... but at the length truth will out." - Shakespeare

[DrDebug]

18. The continous repetition of the impact and demolition was mindcontrol

It was a massive psyops campaign and the reason for repeating it over and over again for months was to install trauma in the minds of the viewers, to install the pictures as the truth, and literally brainwash most of the population. And it was clear that it took months / years before the population at large started to deprogram themselves again.

You say that you questioned the images, that would mean that the mindcontrol would not be effective and therefore you felt detached from the rest of your friends because you would have been out-of-sync. Most people would have watched without questioning the images and therefore exposed themselves to mindcontrol.

The way mindcontrol works:

Argumentum ad nauseam: Uses tireless repetition. A lie once repeated enough times, is taken as the truth. Works best when media sources are limited and controlled by the propagator.

The best way to do is, is when the person is at the most vulnerable. When you see something traumatic you tend to close part of your mind to preserve some sanity and to be able to deal with the situation. The images of the World Trade Center serve that purpose. The trick is that when the mind feels that it is safe again, it'll open up completely and thus making the person were easy to program. So you first repeat the images which will put the mind of the viewer on a sort of safe mode and once the mind opens again, you install the propaganda message which you want to share.

To be really effective, things like this have to be repeated many times. The philosophy behind the mantra, you need 100s of repetitions before something can sink in from the superficial level of mind to the deep inner levels. Compare it to typing, at first you need to look at the keyboard and find the letters and right now I am typing just as fast as I am thinking and I do not need to look at the screen or my fingers, because somehow the fingers know exactly what to do and are at one with my thoughts.

The advantage of television is that you literally synchronize a whole population in the same mindset. Even though there is always a minority who will question things, the fast majority will always accept the mass synchronization and propaganda. A good indication of succesful programming is when your mind goes blank (no thoughts) and that the palms of your hands become a bit sweaty, it is a sort of mild hypnosis where you go in a slight form of altered state of consciousness.

[solara]

25. That makes a lot of sense.. So is that why when he actually tells us the truth...

i.e. the propoganda quote, the dictator quote and others... I mean when he actually puts his personal agenda out there, is that why people don't hear what he is saying? He TOLD us he wanted to be dictator, he TOLD us he is using propaganda.. and I still get a chill when I hear those statements, but it doesn't seem like too many people actually "hear" him.. is that a side effect of the mass brainwashing?

I get the feeling people STILL don't get that he has told us all along what he actually intends to do, and no one is taking THAT part of what he is saying seriously. Are they just chalking it up to the malaprops and misspeak he is known for? Good gawd.. is that a ruse too?

[DrDebug]

26. Liars often tell the truth as well

Just take Rumsfeld, he made so many slips of the tongue that it just isn't funny anymore, however nobody cares.

He said in 1999 that he wanted to attack Iraq in the interview with his would-be biographist Mickey Herskowitz:

If I have a chance to invade ... if I had that much capital, I'm not going to waste it. I'm going to get everything passed that I want to get passed and I'm going to have a successful presidency

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/1028-01.htm

> but it doesn't seem like too many people actually "hear" him..

The most effective brain washing is repetition without listening so just hearing. Because listening is an active brain process and will often lead to people questioning the information presented. If you are considered boring or not interesting then people don't pay much attention to information supplied and are more eager to accept it. The key is repetition of the message and a state of "non thinking" and those states happen frequently with television since it is a passive media. That is also why music is important to your state of mind and if play happy tunes, you become happy and when you play violent music, it often leads to irritation, because the message in the music gets accepted even if a person isn't actively listening.

[savemefromdumbya]

34. You are getting warm Choicepoint

[DrDebug]

35. ChoicePoint is a really cute little company

Let's not focus on Florida 2000, the Mexican elections, and the data "theft" at their organization nor that they sell their information both direct marketing organizations and the CIA.

The ignored 9/11-Choice Point connection
NY Observer - November 28
by Gwen Kinkead, NY Observer

Why would ex-FBI Thomas Pickard tell the commission that he wasn’t allowed to do before Sept. 11 what his agency did do immediately after—but before the signing of the Patriot Act?

(...)

In a little-noticed exchange at the commission’s hearings this spring between commission member John Lehman and former F.B.I. official Thomas Pickard, the bureau’s acting director in the summer before the attacks, Mr. Lehman asked Mr. Pickard (according to the official transcript): "As you know, very shortly after the September 11th attack, some of the commercial databases like Axion, ICSO (ph), ChoicePoint, so forth were queried and nearly all of the 19 hijackers were very prominently covered, with addresses, credit cards, locations et cetera. Why did not the F.B.I. make use of those commercial databases before 9/11?"...

(...)

"There was information about the people who turned out to be hijackers in the ChoicePoint databases prior to 9/11, that’s a true statement," ChoicePoint chairman and chief executive Derek Smith confirmed.

How does he know? The F.B.I. got a court subpoena for ChoicePoint to go through its records and pull out what it had on al Hazmi and al Mihdhar after the Twin Towers fell. Why the F.B.I. didn’t do this before 9/11, Mr. Smith can’t say, but he confirmed that the F.B.I. didn’t seek this information before 9/11. With 20 days left before the attacks, would questioning these two men have been enough to prevent them? And why would Mr. Pickard tell the commission that he wasn’t allowed to do before Sept. 11 what his agency did do immediately after — but before the signing of the Patriot Act?

Via google cache:
http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:WTEpb6pH_RcJ:inn.globalfreepress.com/modules/news/ article.php%3Fstoryid%3D1079&ct=clnk&cd=1

The Progressive: Mexican Data Grab
By John Ross, The Progressive
August 13, 2003

(...)

ChoicePoint's accelerated growth from a spin-off of a credit check agency in 1997 into an info industry giant closely parallels the rise of George W. Bush.

In 1999, First Sibling Jeb Bush and Florida Secretary of State Katherine Harris paid ChoicePoint subsidiary DBT $3.8 million to tidy up the state's voter registration lists by eliminating allegedly ineligible electors. In the process, it knocked off 57,600 mostly black and Latino voters, most of them Democrats, a ploy that ensured Jeb's brother the Presidency.

According to documentation unearthed under the Freedom of Information Act by the independent Electronic Privacy Information Center, ChoicePoint representatives were on the scene at the World Trade Center tragedy in Guinness-Book-of-World-Records- ambulance-chasing time. The company won contracts September 12 to match victims with its growing DNA data bank.

(...)

http://www.refuseandresist.org/police_state/art.php?aid=1005

The identification was done by their subsidiary Bode Technologies.

Choicepoint President Funds Secretary Of State Candidate Scott Holcomb In Georgia
By Matthew Cardinale and Betty Clermont
Atlanta Progressive News (July 13, 2006)

(...)

Choicepoint purchased Bode Technologies, the biggest private DNA testing lab, and was given the contract for identifying 9/11 victims. In an April 2002 interview with The Atlanta Journal Constitution, Choicepoint CEO, Derek Smith, said, "We have spent the last five years preparing our business for an environment we thought was coming. The events of September 11th did not surprise us as a corporation." Choicepoint was also paid to identify victims of Hurricane Katrina. They just announced their Bode Technologies subsidiary is being sold.

www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0607/S00193.htm

They must have had perfect foresight, because they bought Bode Technologies on May 1, 2001.

ChoicePoint(F) Acquires The Bode Technology Group

ALPHARETTA, GA. – May 1, 2001 – ChoicePoint (NYSE: CPS) has acquired The Bode Technology Group, a Virginia-based provider of DNA identification services to state and federal government agencies as well as private industry.

http://www.bodetech.com/about/nr050101.html

Guess what, Bode Technologies previously did TWA800

Bode Technology Group to Identify Victims at World Trade Center
Country's Largest Private Forensic DNA Lab Contracts with New York

SPRINGFIELD, VA. - October 1, 2001 - Bode Technology Group, a ChoicePoint company (NYSE: CPS) and the nation's largest private forensic DNA testing lab, has entered into agreements with both the State of New York and New York City to perform DNA testing in an effort to identify the victims of the attack on the World Trade Center. In addition, Bode will provide quality assurance testing of work performed by third-party labs.

(...)

"This is the largest mass disaster DNA identification effort ever undertaken," explained Mitchell Holland, Ph.D., the lab director at Bode, who was involved in the DNA identification efforts for TWA Flight 800, Alaska Air, and Egypt Air airline disasters. "The magnitude of this disaster just cannot be compared."

http://www.bodetech.com/about/nr100101.html

A little piece of history: ChoicePoint used to be a division of Equifax mainly used by the insurance industry

ChoicePoint transforming itself into a private intelligence service
by Robert O'Harrow Jr., Washington Post
Jan. 20, 2005

ChoicePoint started as a spin-off from Equifax Inc., the credit bureau and information service. It was considered an underperforming division, with its main source of revenue coming from the insurance industry. ChoicePoint examined credit records and other personal information to help top insurers assess customers and vet insurance applications for signs of fraud.

http://www.unknownnews.org/0502150120choicepoint.html

It's such a shame that did never reached an agreement to merge with Kroll.

August 8, 1997

Choicepoint Inc., the insurance services company to be spun off by Equifax Inc., said yesterday that its acquisition of Kroll Associates had been called off after the two companies could not reach a final agreement.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E01EFDA153CF93BA3575BC0A961958260

Their DBT "Voter Purge" company had a little history of drug dealing of course

DEA, FBI Suspend Database Deal with DBT
Posted by FoM on July 05, 1999 at 09:47:23 PT
Source: CBS Market Watch

The Drug Enforcement Administration and the FBI suspended their contracts with a major law enforcement database company partly because of the reputation of the company's founder and major stockholder, The Miami Herald reported Saturday.

DBT Online, based in Boca Raton, compiles public records worldwide and provides dossiers on investigative targets for about 1,500 police agencies.

The DEA and FBI halted their contracts with the company in May, partly over concern that founder Henry Edward Asher was suspected in the early 1980s of flying illegal drugs to the United States from the Bahamas.

(...)
http://cannabisnews.com/news/1/thread1907.shtml

And there is the Armitrage / SAIC link

Armitage, considered to be a conservative "neo con" (neo-conservative), is a member of the Council on Foreign Relations.(1) He is one of the signers of the January 26, 1998, Project for the New American Century PNAC letter to President William Jefferson Clinton (2)

Richard Armitage, one of the Iran-Contra plotters, was a board member of Database Technologies (DBT)/ ChoicePoint Inc before taking office under George Bush Jr. ... Choicepoint is a partner of data mining company SAIC whose web site proclaims it has "developed a strategic alliance with ChoicePoint Incorporated to provide our clients with quick and effortless information retrieval from public records data. ChoicePoint Incorporated maintains thousands of gigabytes of public records data. (3)

Sources:
1. http://www.foreignpolicy2000.org/convention/
2. http://www.channel4.com/news/2003/special_reports/pnacletter.html
3. http://www.counterpunch.org/solo10012003.html

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Richard_Armitage

[savemefromdumbya]

43. more

MZM Inc., a byproduct of Choicepoint Software, to collect a secret spy data base on every living and breathing American living in the United States.

(Reference: Choicepoint Software was used to destroy forty thousand votes for Albert Gore Jr. in the Year 2000 U.S. Presidential Election.)



http://www.the-catbird-seat.net/Lobbyists.htm

[planeman]

36. Yes it is a stupid question.

The Arabs were on the flights.their names were on the manifest.Is that so difficult to understand?

[StrictlyRockers]

37. Wrong. No arab names on any of the manifests.

No arab bodies found on any of the planes by autopsy.

[solara]

38. Maybe it is stupid to wonder about the things that don't seem to fit

in regards to 9/11. I wasn't sure when I posted this initial inquiry because most everyone I spoke to thought it -was- stupid. Maybe it is stupid to ask questions, but something struck me as not right on 9/12 and the more I read about the attack, the more questions I have.

Is it really stupid to want to know the truth? Is it stupid to think that maybe someone -other- than this administration might be able to find the truth?

Since 9/11, questions like mine have been treated as 'stupid', 'crazy' and even 'anti-American'. How stupid must a person be to question this administration's jerry-rigged report on 9/11 and by questioning, criticize this administration's actions both pre and post 9/11?

[Nozebro]

39. The booshco perps don't mind you asking those particular questions

They don't mind you asking those questions because they play into their cover stories about incompetence and what many of the CT'ers "confess" is monumental stupidity on the part of booshco.