Half of 1st 9,000 Ground Zero Workers Screened

[nomatrix]

Still Sick, With No Funds for Treatment

March 2004
http://www.house.gov/maloney/press/108th/20040329HealthBill911.htm

Congresswoman Maloney said, “When thousands of construction workers, police officers, firefighters, and rescue workers raced to Ground Zero after the September 11th attacks, the entire nation recognized their courage and heroism, but the federal response to fund medical programs that could monitor and treat the long term health needs of these responders has been seriously lacking. Any time you have over 4,000 people sick from one event it should be treated as a national health emergency, but the lack of federal coordination, delays in funding, and total absence of aid for treatment shows a shameful neglect of 9/11 health issues in Washington. We hope to change that with this legislation.”

"The Mount Sinai Medical Center for Occupational & Environmental Medicine reported at today’s event that approximately half of the 9,229 rescue and recovery workers screened so far had long-term respiratory illness or injury related to the response effort, and that over 3,500 eligible Ground Zero responders may be unable to be screened under current program resources. This program does not include the thousands of New York City firefighters involved in the response, because the FDNY has a separate program for monitoring the health of its 9/11 responders. The FDNY has reported, however, that more than 300 firefighters have filed for early retirement as a result of significant health problems related to the 9/11 response. Over 40,000 individuals are estimated to have participated in rescue and recovery operations at Ground Zero."

What do you think. 3 years later, $150 billion spent in Iraq, do you think the War President could do something other than a photo op or and election campaign for these poor souls?

No matter what, this administration knowingly put these lives at risk.

[aquart]

1. You'd think Rove would have insisted.

THINK of the photo ops. George among the valiant rescuers. George would have had their lifelong allegiance and certainly their votes.

All he had to do was keep his word. All he had to do was value these valiant people.

He could not do it.

[nomatrix]

2. Who else doesn't want to get sick?

http://www.corpwatch.org/issues/PID.jsp?articleid=1608
Mysterious Shipments

"At least one shipload, onboard a vessel named Brozna, landed in the South Indian port city of Chennai in early January. The scrap was unloaded, as any routine consignment would be, by port workers with absolutely no protection. Two other ships, Shen Quan Hai and Pindos, also reported to be carrying World Trade Center scrap berthed and offloaded their cargo in Chennai. But preliminary investigations failed to reveal documentation linking the cargo to the Trade Center. Reports are vague about another shipment making its way into Northern India through the Western port city of Kandla.

Similar shipments have reportedly reached China, where Baosteel Group purchased 50,000 tons of the potentially toxic scrap. Malaysia and South Korea are also reported to have received shipments. Eventually, most of the 1.5 millions tons of scrap from the cleanup may end up dirtying Asian ports and threatening Asian workers."

[NecessaryOnslaught]

4. Im sick

I have an adverse reaction to floating crimescenes.
:puke: :puke: :puke:

[enough]

3. Thanks for posting this, nomatrix

A terrible story that needs to be known.

[nomatrix]

5. Tom Cruise Raises $1.2 Million For Treatment

Of WTC Rescue Workers

http://www.wnbc.com/wtc/3007867/detail.html

"NEW YORK -- An organization co-founded by actor Tom Cruise has raised $1.2 million to expand a treatment program for rescue workers exposed to potentially hazardous materials after the collapse of the World Trade Center.

The New York Rescue Workers Detoxification Project said it has treated more than 200 workers who say they were suffering effects from breathing the air filled with smoke, dust and debris after the Sept. 11, 2001, destruction of the trade center.

The money raised by Cruise and others would expand the project to treat twice as many people, said Keith Miller, the project's director. The treatment is provided at no cost."

Thank you for doing something. L Ron Hubbard was the other founder.

[Abe Linkman]

7. A note about L Ron

When L. Ron Hubbard died, the "Church" of Scientology released a statement which said: "He is not dead. He is doing out of body research."

[DeadBroke]

6. Over 40,000

"Over 40,000 individuals are estimated to have participated in rescue and recovery operations at Ground Zero."

I have a great deal of trouble trying to understand and accept that 40,000 people looked away or allowed or participated in the "destruction of evidence" often repeated in these forums.

[nomatrix]

8. What are you talking about?

http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/updates/hhs-03-18-04.html

These numbers are from the CDC which would include Red Cross, Contractors, National Guard, etc.

Are you perplexed that there were that many people exposed to the hazards of being there? I don't believe that includes the residents living in the surrounding area, but I could be wrong.

NY is a large city. I am surprised that would surprise you. Or that you would post that 40,000 is an exceptional amount of people to have rotated through the search then to recovery efforts. If you are surprised to our government cover-up of the exposure to toxins in the air that the workers were exposed to, yes I can see how you would be surprised. How they could continue to reassure those who have already suffered a devastating lose of life, but also the psychological affect of finding 19,000 body parts of those who died. Yes, I find that hard to believe too. What kind of government would do that? Then after that, leave you to suffer with no medical help or compensation. Quite a few were volunteers.

You know, it's upsetting to think how quickly the government would hand out payments to the victims families only if they would not sue, no matter what. Why would they do that? Do you ever think about that?
The efforts to remove the evidence as quickly as possible, night and day. Did you know the insurance companies also needed to investigate the crime scene? It wasn't the insurance companies money that paid off the victims. The 9/11 hearings are only possible because of those few who refused the money because the truth of what happened was more important. The administration never wanted the hearings to happen. Why?

I'm sure as that cleanup was going on, most of those selfless individuals, as well as the world thought there would be a thorough investigation. If you watch the investigation, does anything tell you there has been a desire in any way to get to the truth of what happened, by THIS government, whose job it was to protect us?

Now, what can't you believe?

[DeadBroke]

9. My comments ...

.... were directed to the often repeated assertions in these forums that Trade Center evidence was destroyed; destroyed to cover-up the use of demolition explosives, destroyed to cover-up the use of black weapons technology, destroyed to cover-up the use of missles, and destroyed to cover-up whatever else needed covering up.

40,000 estimated were involved in the rescue and recovery efforts. For the "evidence was destroyed" assertions to be true 40,000 people had to "be in on it." I don't think 40,000 said "OK" to a cover-up, or "looked the other way" or went "DD" - deaf and dumb. That number of people involved - 40,000 - eliminates the "evidence was destroyed" based theories and complaints in these forums.

By the way, I am fully aware of the rescue and recovery efforts. Members of my NYC ironworkers local were very involved for a great length of time. Groups from my own NJ volunteer fire department were involved; and I, as stated numerous times before, spent September 11, 2001 and several days after handling logisticals for those efforts.

[nomatrix]

10. Deadbroke, I think you are in the wrong thread

"40,000 estimated were involved in the rescue and recovery efforts. For the "evidence was destroyed" assertions to be true 40,000 people had to "be in on it." I don't think 40,000 said "OK" to a cover-up, or "looked the other way" or went "DD" - deaf and dumb. That number of people involved - 40,000 - eliminates the "evidence was destroyed" based theories and complaints in these forums."

Unless, you chose to derail this topic.

I am surprised that you would chose this thread. By your own admission, it supports people like yourself who "supposedly" were exposed. I find that perplexing.

I bring this topic to the attention of those following the WTC events. "Your own" fellow firefighters, are sick from breathing in toxins. Rather than supply any firsthand information, or support the legislation to help those injured, you chose to create a extremely lame argument.

This thread had NOTHING to do with the topic you planted.

[DeadBroke]

11. Using the ....

... accepted terminologies of these 911 threads I am a "911 researcher" and like other regular forum members and "researchers" I have the freedoms and rights to look for and find and post facts wherever they may be.

"Wherever they may be" doesn't limit me or anyone else from using this or any other thread in their quest for the truth. I'm not one for cyber-bullying or confrontations and I'm not attempting to "plant" or derail anything, especially this thread and the importance of supporting the Congressperson's bill; but the original message contains valuable 911 research information - information needed to prove/disprove theories and important research information needed in that search for truth.

The important research info in the original message is that over 40,000 people participated in RRR, Rescue, Recovery and Rehabilation. 40,000, my that's a whole lot of people, and IMHO each is a hero; but that informative number 40,000 can also be used to show that the assertions for destruction of evidence wasn't possible when there were 40,000 witnesses around.

No, it's not a "plant" and it's not a derailing attempt - it's just looking for an exposing facts in the search for truth.

FYI: I was not exposed. An existing health condition compelled me to remain in fire quarters and perform desk duties, such as; securing and manning helicopter landing zones, ambulance staging areas, mortuary facilities, and fire fighting logistics - procurement of large diameter supply hose, misc fire equipment, and portable lighting equipment. Should you or anyone else desire some info on any of my activities please feel free to drop a PM.

[nomatrix]

14. How do you define witness?

"The important research info in the original message is that over 40,000 people participated in RRR, Rescue, Recovery and Rehabilation. 40,000, my that's a whole lot of people, and IMHO each is a hero; but that informative number 40,000 can also be used to show that the assertions for destruction of evidence wasn't possible when there were 40,000 witnesses around."

Let's put your "witness" example to a smell test.

Would you know if you were exposed to radiation (or chemicals) without the equipment?
Radon was discovered when a worker at Limerick Nuclear Power Plant set off the alarms. Problem was, he was setting them off on his way in. The radiation was coming from his home. He would have continued to expose his family to deadly level of radon gases if he didn't work at an operating power plant. No where else would have carried that level of equipment. Now, was he or his family a witness prior to the discovery? Could he be held liable prior to this knowledge? That is why testing of homes is manditory prior to the sale of a home in areas of the country were there is radon. It takes the doubt out.

Could those 40,000 workers known how to discover evidence?
How do arson investigaters do thier job?
You can destroy evidence by walking in it. Destruction of evidence is not only possible but probable.


Unless they found this......

[DeadBroke]

15. I appreciate your ...

.... passionate opposition to my opinion and respect your views, but from my conversations with RRR workers present at the Trade Center I am certain that the "destruction of evidence" - the definition accepted by and used by regular forum members - did not occur. It is my understanding from reading these forums for a very long time, all the links, and from PMs and emails that the evidence term used here means columns and beams.

As for the concept that evidence - aka columns and beams - were destroyed be advised that columns, beams, and other structural framing members were not sliced and diced and carted away without first being evaluated by investigative inspection teams. From my lengthy and graphic conversations with union ironworkers and other tradesmen, with firefighters, and with other emergency workers no structural item was moved, cut, hoisted, or loaded until it's location was recorded and marked, not before it was photographed and sketched, and never without investigation team approval.

Of course walking an area will disrupt all macro and micro evidence (by the way, if you have any questions about arson investigation PM me, I am arson investigation certified), but I'm using the accepted lexicon of the DU 911 forum which uses anything but technical or formal terms (example: tilt, melt, telescoping, mush, wet noodle etc etc). Evidence, with only slight exception has always meant columns and beams.

If it is your choice to believe 40,000 people aren't capable of knowing evidence if it bit them on their butts, fine; I will politely disagree. Enough said.

[NecessaryOnslaught]

12. A few questions..

Since you are the only one here who can dispel/confirm certain myths regarding "the pile" , I ask of you..

1) Was there molten pools of steel in the sub-levels of both towers?

2)What was the source of the fires that burned for three months in the sub-levels? What was "burning"?

3)what was the procedure for cleanup of the sub-levels considering that temperatures in the pit were at least 1500 F?

4)Did anything at all remain of the core(s)? If so, what was the procedure for disassembling the interconnectons between core members, for unbolting(?) the core members from the bedrock?

any help is appreciated...

[DeadBroke]

13. "any help is appreciated..."

... but I am unable to answer your questions from 1st hand personal knowledge. As I've stated above and in numerous other threads; I wasn't at the Trade Center on 911 or personally involved in RRR, and I do not profess to having any unique abilities to confirm or dispell certain myths.

I can offer some second hand answers - tell you what I was told; and I will be pleased to do that, but first please understand that I'm certainly no mythbuster, but if you ask me 40,000 witnesses are just too many people to control, and it is impossible to keep 40,000 people silent about any kind of wrongdoings; especially the trade union men and women involved in RRR because that's an anti-Bush and gung-ho Democrat crowd with big mouths. I know, I'm one. How can there be "destruction of evidence" with 40,000 witnesses?

I'm just an ironworker who did some work at the Trade Center - and at #7 - and I am someone who is trying to find out what happened. That's how I found these forums - looking for information that I could not get in my conversations with people that were involved in the design and construction, security, and then rescue and recovery.

As a member of these forums I've done a quid pro quo; taking lots of information, but also giving information from my ironworking and firefighting experiences, or by offering information I have obtained from the aforementioned interviews and from the projects I personally participated in at the Trade Center. I've also voiced my opinion. All honest efforts while trying to be very civil.

If you're interested in some second-hand information; if you want to hear what I heard when I asked your same questions here goes:

1. At a NYC sponsored 911 WTC Q&A forum at Wagner High School the investigation teams answered that question which was posed by a woman by saying that the molten metal was mostly aluminum and had some lightweight steel, the type used in office equipment. Ironworkers have told me that the molten metal was aluminum with all sorts of other building products mixed in, some were visible such as steel studs, shelving and file standards, sprinkler hanger brackets, and glazing beads from windows. No one I've heard speak at Q&A and no one I know from RRR says the molten metal was all steel, and the photos and videos I've seen of it being loaded onto flat bed trailers suggest to me that it didn't weigh a whole lot making me believe it wasn't all steel.

2. The source of fires you're asking about was discussed at a Q&A held at LaGuardia College. The answer: paper; and the fires - there were several - got air through voids in the debris and trough stairwells and train tunnels.

3. I've been told by RRR workers that the heat in those areas was long gone when workers finally reached those deepest levels; that FDNY had extinguished the fires weeks earlier by using AFFF - aqueous film forming foam. I am certain a link was offered on this several months ago.

4. Photos I've seen are better, but TV news and dcocumentry coverage have shown erect core columns. Ironworkers I know and have worked with many times have told me that the process was all oxy-acetelyene torch. The connections were bolted and then welded during the construction phase, so they had to be "burned" - an ironworking slang term for using the aforementioned torch.

[NecessaryOnslaught]

16. Thanks DeadBroke

You have been very civil and certainly a valuable source of information. I think we can agree that no one here is 100% right about any aspect of 9/11 but we are all no doubt curious to a fault. We can talk all about committees, "official" reports etc etc, but IMO the people here at DU have conducted a more thorough investigation than the lot of em' combined (as evidenced by the article in todays village voice on Paul Thompson), because we ask and discuss any question, no matter hot "tinfoily". Those who dismiss conspiracy theories outright because, "too many people would have to be involved, someone would come" out or "No one could be so evil as to kill thousands of their own citizens" or "the media was there, they would have told us", are doing themselves a disservice with this type of thinking. The very nature of govt. and media is to deceive, and it was this same deceptive govt. that controlled all the logistics of all of the 9/11 crimescenes, and this same deceptive govt. that controlled the media's portrayal of the events of that day, as they "unfolded". Anyway back to the topic

1) You claim that there WAS light molten steel found in the sub-levels? I'm sure that the temperature required to melt steel would certainly melt anything else in the vicinity ie aluminum, so its understandable if there was a mixture of molten materials.

2)I fail to see how paper compacted in with micron sized particles of concrete, gypsum, asbestos, glass etc, would make for a combustible pile which would burn for three months,at temperatures >/= 1500F.

3) Indeed the pyrocool product used in the sub-levels was PYROCOOL "FEF" FIRE EXTINGUISHING FOAM, effective for extinguishing unleaded gasoline with MTBE additive. Combustible metal fires can also be extinguished using PYROCOOL® FEF", and NOT "PYROCOOL "A", NON FOAMING FORMULA, highly recommended for use on wood, paper, natural fibers, coal, etc. and on liquid combustibles with flash points greater than 0°F (e.g. kerosene, diesel, etc.)."
http://www.pyrocool.org/ground_zero.htm

I actually worked at National Foam, a sub-division of Kidde Firefighting, as a lab tech in the technical services department last year. I did physical property testing (expansion, drainage, specific gravity) on similar products. I also worked in the fire modeling lab, where we had a miniature pressurized nozzle to apply the concentrate to 5 gallons of either heptane, Isopropyl alchol, or high octane gasoline(depending on the product being tested)in a large steel pan. After a one min. preburn, the product would be applied and we would time how long til 20% ,50%, 90% and total extinguishment and note product integrity during extingushment. The AFFF is unique in that it separates into two components when applied to the fuel, the "carpet" and the "rug". The carpet is a psuedoplastic membrane, which floats about an inch ahead of the "rug", that actually extinguishes the fire. The "rug" is a foamy substance that prevents flashback and absorbs thermal radiation. NF's equivalent to Pyrocool A was called Responder, and was nothing more than a low concentrate wetting agent,used for paper fires and such.

[DeadBroke]

17. Back in the 60s & 70s Kidde ..

... located in Belleville NJ donated tens of thousands of dollars and the latest equipment to numerous Volunteer Firemens Associations to start training academies. They provided funding for C.P.R. courses and were very helpful in start up funds for the first EMT courses in New Jersey. Kidde was big in helping establish the burn units at St. Barnabas and Clara Maas Hospitals.

On 911 one of my tasks was to locate and procure foam (and 5" LDH Large Diameter Hose and generators and lighting units) from North Jersey fire department inventories and to get it to the Port Authority staging areas in Fort Lee. I was taken aback and didn't anticipate having to deal with so many brand names, percents, and shelf-life dating problems.

About those fires and paper; I can understand questioning that possibility, but the Trade Center had incredible amounts of paper in it. When I worked there it was sometimes to install mobile shelving - the kind of compact space saving shelving that rolls on tracks; and I also installed power rotary filing systems. Files, files, files, tons of files. Paper, paper, everywhere.

The Port Authority had tenants recycle, and the tenants also did lots of shredding. It would take maintenance crews all night to load the elevators and get it down to the loading docks. (Garbage also took several full time crews and parades of garbage trucks). Copy paper (and bottled water) were delivered by trailer; trailer after trailer after trailer, and the delivery crews that unloaded the trailers and delivered the paper to the floors above worked no where else but at the Trade Center - 5 days a week, 52 weeks a year.

Paper was huge, something I always saw coming in and going out whenever I was on the loading dock or in the freight elevators. Sure, it may be an over simplification, but holy cow, there was paper everywhere in those buildings. I've seen lots of photographs taken by ironworkers from my union hall and there was LOTS of paper in that debris.

But about that debris; yes there was pulverized concrete and sheetrock, but not everything was pulverized. From those ironworker photos I've seen, and also from those published in local newspapers, everything was not pulverized; there was lots of ductwork, ceiling grid, sections of tiled wall, stair stringers, and wiring looms mixed in with the dust and powder and large pieces of steel framing members.