Palestinian leader's dream: an independent state, a normal life

[norml]

Palestinian leader's dream: an independent state, a normal life



With white hair, deep-blue suit and a pair of gilt-edged glasses, he seems to be very genteel. However, behind the 70-year-old Palestinian leader was a long story of struggle: once a refugee in the first Middle East War, now a leader fighting for peace in Palestine.

"I have a dream: I hope my children can live in an independent state of Palestine free of worries in the future," said President of the Palestinian National Authority (PNA) Mahmoud Abbas in an exclusive interview with Xinhua on Wednesday.

Abbas arrived here Tuesday afternoon for a three-day state visit to China at the invitation of Chinese President Hu Jintao. It is Abbas' first China trip since he succeeded Yasser Arafat to be the PNA president.

"I need peace, not violence. I hope the Palestinian people can lead a life of ordinary persons and have basic necessities of life: clothing, food, shelter..." he said.



snip




http://english.people.com.cn/200505/19/eng20050519_185712.html

[norml]

1. A Simple Solution To A Complex Problem: Just Give Them Statehood

My general opinions on this situation are as follows. I support the existence of Israel. I support the immediate creation of a Palestinian state. The PLO, or as they are called by the Palestinians "The Tunisians" would lose their power, if ever statehood were granted. The PLO and The Likud, work hand in hand to perpetuate the status quo. Ignore the violence, grant statehood, the Tunisians will lose their power, and all will be well. Then maybe Israel could drop out of any PNAC plans. That would be lovely.

[Colorado Blue]

3. I'm not sure there's anything preventing them from

declaring statehood, especially once the Gaza withdrawal is accomplished.

But, it would be helpful to start negotiating borders and peace treaties in earnest. There AREN'T any borders. The "Green Line" is just an armistice line, and there need to be plans, somehow, for people to get from the West Bank to Gaza, without cutting Israel in half.

There need to be ways, if possible, for Jewish citizens living in Arab towns or areas, to be protected, as Arab citizens of Israel have rights (talk about dreaming - but THAT would REALLY be normalization!)

I saw a report from the Rand Corporation, involving a railway with parks alongside, that would like East Jerusalem with Gaza. I don't know if something like this could work. If so, it might be to everybody's advantage - for Israelis in the Negev as well as for Palestinians - as long as it was used for transportation purposes and not as a way to launch an assault.

Getting control of the militant groups is a major challenge, as is undoing decades of mutual violence and distrust. Education is a HUGE factor.

Major developments in the right direction are occuring, however:

Removal of the notorious "Protocols" from a P.A. website

Angry condemnation of a bigoted speech on P.A. TV - by the P.A.

Sharon and Abbas cooperating to arm Palestinian police in prepartion of Israeli withdrawal from West Bank cities

IDF and Hamas cooperating on day-to-day bureaucratic matters in towns
where Hamas has won political office

Armed men turning in their weapons in exchange for jobs.


With good will and hard work, and the good wishes of the world, this can happen and will happen.

I worry about outside troublemakers, who do not want peace, and people who can't adjust to normal life, such as the man in the article describes, more than anything else. Also religious extremists and just plain criminals - big problems everywhere.

[norml]

4. That's a sensible way of looking at things.

It could start with Gaza. It's borders are already established. Additions could be worked out later. To me the most critical change would be that the people in Gaza have the right of free trade, with anyone they want to trade with. Under the current rules of occupation everything must be purchased through Israel, and distributed by the Palestinian Authority. It is not in the interest of either Israeli businesses, or the Palestinian Authority to have any changes to this situation. Continued instability is used to justify continued occupation. Such is the case in Iraq. Such is the case in the Occupied Territories. My attitude for years had been "The Arabs lost, so they just need to over it, and leave Israel alone". Now I'm thinking that such a view does not take in the full reality of the situation. Now I'm thinking that such an attitude is not the attitude I want to take. What makes Israel so special that I should exempt it from being judged, as I would judge any other occupying country? Also support for Israel too often translates into support for our own bad behavior. I must withdraw my support, and I encourage others to do the same. This doesn't mean that I like Jewish people, or Jewish culture any less.

[Colorado Blue]

5. Yes it does:)

Don't kid yourself. Israel is a part of Jewish ethos, for most of us. One can't say on the one hand "I like Jews and Jewish culture," and blow off Israel and/or the Zionist ideal, at the same time.

Criticize Israeli policy - although it is improving dramatically - please! Most of us do, and that includes her own lively and democratic citizens.

But since you mention Palestinian trade, as a matter of fact Israel and Jordan have just signed trade agreements with EU, which should also benefit the Palestinians.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/578313.html

But don't believe that withdrawing support isn't damaging to Jewish people in general. There are only 13 million Jews IN THE WORLD and over 5 million live in Israel alone.

Now more than ever, support is needed to get out of Gaza, to begin with, successfully.

Israel is hurting her own citizens badly, and damaging the ideals of her statehood, to accomplish this. It is a completely one-sided adventure which probably won't stop the terrorists. The Palestinian Covenant still calls expressly for the destruction of Israel.

Meanwhile, the influence of Arab oil money is growing all the time. The political point of view in Europe and in the US and in academic institutions and in the media, is being directly affected. Israel AND Jewish people worldwide, are being isolated and vilified.

So please, one shouldn't go patting oneself on the back for such humanitarianism.

Please read the article I posted, the interview with Ehud Barak.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/578206.html

***

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Englander]

10. Have you seen this?

# Posting from Whatreallyhappened.com, Chronwatch.com or Debka.com is specifically not allowed.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=124x21970

[Colorado Blue]

11. Sorry. I wasn't aware of that. But the writer's sentiments

are exactly suitable to the discussion.

I think people should be allowed to read his words, which of course anybody can paraphrase.

People pretending that Israel isn't Jewish, or trying to pretend that they like Jews while they preach the destruction of our one and only state, is like claiming that they like Muslims, but disapprove of self-determination for Arabs.

In other words, it doesn't make sense.

If you like, alert the mods.

I'll copy the post and if they want to delete it I'll repost without the article. I intended no harm.

[Coastie for Truth]

7. Illogic of the Progressives

Also support for Israel too often translates into support for our own bad behavior. I must withdraw my support, and I encourage others to do the same. This doesn't mean that I like Jewish people, or Jewish culture any less.

Lumping all Jews in with the Neocons, lumping all Israelis in with the Likud and the Haredi. Seems to be perfectly acceptable in our Progressive Community.

How long would it take somebody to get tomb stoned from DU if they lumped all Blacks in with Ward Connerly, Armstrong Williams, Alan Keyes, Condi Rice, Clarence Thomas or Janice Rogers Brown? To say that I oppose Janice Rogers Brown is not withdrawing support from Charlie Rangel or John Conyers or lumping Rangel with Janice Rogers Brown. But one illogic is acceptable in the progressive community - and the other one isn't.

Is there a double standard? As they used to say on the Smothers Brothers "You bet your sweet bippie there is."


Norml - I am not picking on you or singling you out - you seem like a pretty decent, sincere progressive. Just happened to hit me - and that one passage from your post seemed like a convenient hook -- Apologies.

[Colorado Blue]

8. Wildpeace

Everybody knows from bagels and lox and Groucho Marx, Woodie Alan and Fiddler on the Roof. There's so much more to us than that - especially important to Israel, the Mizrachi and Sephardic culture. These are the people of the Middle East and the Mediterranean, who suffered terribly during WWII and were expelled from their homes after 1948. Hundreds of thousands came to the new world but the majority settled in Israel, often in tent cities on the open plain.

But more, the resurrection of the Hebrew language, asleep for nearly 2000 years, alive now in Israel.

I give you two poems, by the great Yehuda Amichai - born Germany
1924, emigrated to Mandate Palestine, fought in 4 wars, died in 2000.


Jerusalem, 1967 (poem 5)

Yehuda Amichai

On Yom Kippur 5728, I donned
Dark holiday clothing and walked to Jerusalem's Old City.
I stood for quite a while in front of the kiosk shop of an Arab,
Not far from Shchem (Nablus) Gate, a shop
full of buttons, zippers and spools of thread
Of every color; and snaps and buckles.
Brightly lit and many colored like the open Holy Ark.
I said to him in my heart that my father too
Owned a shop just like this of buttons and thread.
I explained to him in my heart about all the decades
And the reasons and the events leading me to be here now
While my father's shop burned there and he is buried here.
When I concluded it was the hour of N'eilah ("locking the gates").
He too drew down the shutters and locked the gate
As I returned homeward with all the other worshippers.

--from Achshav B' Ra'ash ("Now, Noisily") (Schocken, 1975), page 11-12
translation by Richard Silverstein

http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2004/05/jerusalem_1967_.html


Wildpeace

Not the peace of a cease-fire
not even the vision of the wolf and the lamb,
but rather
as in the heart when the excitement is over
and you can talk only about a great weariness.
I know that I know how to kill, that makes me an adult.
And my son plays with a toy gun that knows
how to open and close its eyes and say Mama.
A peace
without the big noise of beating swords into ploughshares,
without words, without
the thud of the heavy rubber stamp: let it be
light, floating, like lazy white foam.
A little rest for the wounds - who speaks of healing?
(And the howl of the orphans is passed from one generation
to the next, as in a relay race:
the baton never falls.)

Let it come
like wildflowers,
suddenly, because the field
must have it: wildpeace.


Amichai read this poem at the 1994 awards ceremony in Oslo when Yitzhak Rabin and Shimon Peres received the Nobel Peace Prize together with Yasser Arafat.

http://www.jrf.org/edu/israel2002-study-poetry-amichai.html

[Colorado Blue]

9. A Feeling of Joy

A feeling of joy
Rufina Bernardetti Silva Mausenbaum ©copyright 1999
http://www.saudades.org [e-mail]


A feeling of joy descends
slowly
Finding its resting place
within me
The images of the past now
an inspiration
Listening to the memories
fills me with tenderness
I have survived, I am here, alive
I am Israel
Connected always to my past
with love and saudade
For those who went before, so
I open my heart like a shrine
Unblemished by bitterness
or hate
Filled with love for them
Centuries of tender care
could not deny
Bore into a perfect harmony
As humane and mature
With the wholeness
of spirit that is victorious
We once more can share
The essence and purity
of life as
Jews from Sepharad.


http://www.orthohelp.com/geneal/holocaust.HTM

http://www.cjlmilwaukee.org/Video/Video%20Catalog%201/World%20Jewry%20Sections/Sephardic%20-%20Mizrachi%20Jewry%20(L-Z).htm

http://www.jewishrefugees.org/film.htm

http://www.hsje.org/Egypt%20Jewish%20Heritage%20is%20disappearing.html

http://www.d.umn.edu/~kmaurer/Fiddler/RoadtoShtetl.html


I truly hope you'll read and enjoy these links, and please don't turn your back on us!

Shalom,
Colorado Blue

[Colorado Blue]

12. American Bad Behavior vs. Israeli Bad Behavior

And, as people of course MUST know, American bad behavior and Israeli bad behavior are NOT the same thing.

America is not surrounded by enemies who refuse to recognize her and who continuously vow to destroy her. She is not having frequent attacks on her civilian population by rockets, mortars, gunfire and bombers. If people were attacking America like this they would be carpet bombed. They would be GONE. We would not be discussing statehood for them, bubulah.

Do Gulf War I and "Shock and Awe" give you a clue as to what happens to people who piss off America? These weren't even in response to life-threatening attacks, unless of course you consider the price of oil!

We've only been attacked ONCE here, really badly, by foreign terrorists, and once by a foreign power. The latter ultimately resulted in the destruction of two Japanese cities with atomic bombs.

Vietnam killed MILLIONS. What did THEY do to us? See my point?

American people haven't been exterminated nor have they been persecuted for 2000 years. America hasn't had five wars since 1948, following a Holocaust. If she had, the enemy would have disappeared by now.

American foreign policy interests are on a gigantic scale and have RARELY involved actual survival.

Her misdeeds are frequently in the service of security and economics that directly benefit YOU. So if you must criticize Israel, by all means, feel free. Then go take a look outside. Probably you will see lots and lots of STUFF. You will not worry about getting on a bus or being hit with a rocket. You WILL see power lines, telephone wires, highways, lots of nice SAFE people, and many many cars.

Do you drive one? Ah HAH. That should be Clue #1.

People, by the way, as Americans, have their rear ends firmly planted in soil acquired by purchase, war and colonialism. We should thank our lucky stars for this richness, while even so and rightly so, deploring her misdeeds. Hopefully, one will have some creative ideas as to how we can improve our foreign policy besides - I paraphrase - "withdrawing support for Israel while still liking Jews."


Edited and reposted to remove editorial from forbidden source.

[Coastie for Truth]

2. "Milk and Honey" and "Strawberries and Sweet Cream" and "Ambrosia" NT