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drdon326 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-05 09:11 PM
Original message
Human Rights, UN-style
Today and Friday the United Nations Commission on Human Rights will pass resolutions on human rights situations around the world. This body of 53 states will not reproach Iran, Saudi Arabia, China or many other notorious violators of human rights. Genocidal Sudan may get slapped on the wrist. It is certain, though, that Israel will be condemned in five separate resolutions, four more than any other country.

snip

As in years past, the commission's Middle East resolutions will address Palestinian rights and Israeli responsibilities, but neglect Israeli rights and Palestinian responsibilities. Some safe predictions, based on previous resolutions: One of the measures will proclaim the Palestinian right to live without Israeli interference but omit the Israeli right to life. Another will decry the delay of Palestinian school buses at Israeli checkpoints and forget the Israeli children who never arrived at school because their bus was blown up.

The commission will commiserate with Palestinian refugees of the Arab-Israeli wars and overlook the greater number of Jewish refugees who fled Arab persecution. It will condemn Israel's security fence without mentioning the terrorism that made it necessary. Nor will the commission recognize Israeli adjustments in the fence's route to accommodate Palestinian needs.

Politics drives the commission, not concern for Palestinian civilians. It appointed a special investigator, John Dugard, to scrutinize Israeli actions, but not Palestinian lynchings of Palestinian men, so-called honor killings of Palestinian women or the exploitation of Palestinian children by terrorists to smuggle bombs through Israeli checkpoints.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1113358705118&p=1006953079865

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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-05 09:17 PM
Response to Original message
1. Every day is Opposite Day at this global Berlin on the Hudson.
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drdon326 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-05 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Gee....the way the UNCHR passes resolutions against Israel.....
they seem to have no time to do anything else.

Why the hell dont they just cut the crap and call it.....

United Nations Commission on Sucking Up To a Bunch of Psycho Countries While Treating Israel Like Shit....the UNCSUBPCWTILS.
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drdon326 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-05 09:18 PM
Response to Original message
2. Did I mention how much I really really really love the UN?
Especially after reading the above.
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newyorican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-05 09:55 PM
Response to Original message
4. Same story, different take
Australia, US against condemning Israel

Australia and the United States were the only members of the United Nations Human Rights Commission to vote against condemning Israel's settlement of "occupied Palestinian territory" including the West Bank and Gaza Strip.

The rest of the 53-member UN watchdog demanded the Israeli government reverse its policy.

The resolution on Israel, passed by a 39-2 vote with 12 abstentions, said the Israeli government should "prevent any new installation of settlers in the occupied territories".

...
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-05 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Millions of Africans are slaughtered and hardly anyone notices...
but if a Palestinian gets a hangnail, it's a global crisis.

But no, I'm not cynical at all.
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newyorican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-05 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Hmmm...didn't read anything about hangnails...
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drdon326 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-05 05:37 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. Pretty freightening......
when Sudan, Saudi Arabia Cuba and Zimbabwe get to decide on "human rights".

Laughable.
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newyorican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-05 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Yeah...
and frightening also...
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Darranar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-05 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Could you name countries you would prefer? n/t
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drdon326 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-05 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Better yet , what countries would your prefer ?
or should I assume you like the ones there already.
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Darranar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-05 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. Answer the question...
The ones there at the moment I do not like, but to find any state that would actually look after human rights before its own interests would be next to impossible.

Pretty much all governments commit human rights abuses, though some have better propaganda programs than others.
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Colorado Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-05 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Ouch. Too true. This might be the challenge for the next
millenium, if we survive that long - for nations and ethnic groups and religions, the human species itself, to look beyond themselves and see the whole.

Lord knows, Buddha was talking about that 2500 years ago.

It apparently hasn't sunk in yet.

Sometimes I agree with my old man, who says, we are DOOMED.

This upsets the cats, they are positive thinkers:)

It upsets me too, life shouldn't be spent looking forward to some Wagnerian vision of apocalypse. To keep working, and trying to create, one needs to believe in LIFE.

But the more I read the more worried I get.
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Darranar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-05 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. I am something of a cynic. But perhaps I am an optimist too...
or maybe just delusional, because I think we can solve this before we all die from war or environmental degradation or some other self-inflicted tragedy.

Think of this - a century ago, superiority of race could be widely accepted as a legitimate justification for imperial war. Now, the powers that be have to be conjure up phantom weapons of mass destruction.

Human thought is progressing, and when thoughts change for the better, the prospect of change for the better increases.

The human race has survived an awful lot. We may yet manage to survive this mess, and if we do, we may lay the foundations for the human race surviving a far longer time than one would think.
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Colorado Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-17-05 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. Thanks, and blessings:) nt
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drdon326 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-17-05 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #14
17. Really ?
That is a non-answer, the question as posed was to name the countries you would prefer. By answering you can make a stand to the system of a government you prefer. Philosophical nonsense is best left to "ivory tower" debate but adds nothing to discussion of reality.

Perhaps you might think some DEMOCRACIES that might actually have better records on that little thing called HUMAN RIGHTS than those virtues of fairness called Sudan, Saudi Arabia, Cuba and Zimbabwe?
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Colorado Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-17-05 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. Democracies would be a good place to start. Even though
the major powers have caused horrible damage, at least, as Darranar says, we have a charter NOT to discriminate and not to persecute people because of race or religion or sex or age or disability or marital status.

Having people who are actively pursuing genocidal policies, or who are running totalitarian governments, or who are working from the POV of radical theocracies, makes no sense at all.

We, and other democratic states, aren't doing all that good a job at being angels but at least, as you point out, we have written guidelines for how we are SUPPOSED to behave.

It is a START.

Meanwhile, states like Sudan, Saudi Arabia and so forth, SHOULD be members of the UN and should be exposed to different world views. BUT, they shouldn't be guarding the damn hen-house. In my opinion:)
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Darranar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-17-05 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. Yes, it was a non-answer...
Edited on Sun Apr-17-05 02:53 PM by Darranar
As was your reply - and I believe I asked the question originally.

Frankly I don't think there are any good alternatives, which is not to say that those currently there should remain. Perhaps Norway, Sweden, Iceland, Denmark, and Canada? There are probably others that would do well, but those few should give you a good idea of the kinds of governments I support, or rather view to be the least evil.

There are problems with those too, chiefly that while not much in the way of imperial powers, those five are all on the rich, first world side of the spectrum, and far too much power is already held by such nations in the UN.

By far the most destructive human tendency in the world right now - the enforcement of human greed in the global economic system - is the policy of a large number of stable first-world democracies, governments that sure would like us to think they respect human rights, but have rather variant records.
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Colorado Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-17-05 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. True of multinationals too, that really don't fly any one flag,
but are in effect as powerful as many nation-states. They CONTROL entire nations, the US for example, and our (the people's) power seems to be waning.
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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-18-05 07:09 AM
Response to Reply #11
23. You were asked first...
don't be shy bendover :)
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TomClash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-05 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #10
28. Well, wait . . .
. . . it is true that Ireland or Sweden or Austria would be a far better choice than Libya. But it is also true that the UNCHR has taken the lead in human rights in Burundi, the Congo, Sudan-Darfur, Ethiopia, Tunisia and so on while the US has done comparatively little.
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simcha_6 Donating Member (333 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-05 01:03 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. Both sides have points
Yes, the UN unfairly focuses on Israel. And the occupation of the West Bank, Gaza, Golan, and Sinai was, in my mind valid. (After all, what would you have done if you were in charge of Israel in 1967.) The settlers, of course, are bad. Maybe they were necesary in '67, but they're just a pain now. And there should be a Palestinian state (you and I, hard as it may be to believe, are on the same side on this issue.) Just because the UN is a bit unfair doens't mean that Israel should ignore it when it makes good points.
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Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-05 02:21 PM
Response to Original message
12. Typical
If you are too "1st world," you get a free pass and can use your political clout to make trouble. If you are too "3rd world," no one gives a shit. The UN needs to look at their own bigoted behavior and readjust their attitude! Either apply all sanctions and resolutions more equally, or shut the fuck up! Of course, the UN has never been a real friend to Israel. It is like "Animal Farm"..."All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others!"
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Colorado Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-05 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Here are a couple of links regarding this sad situation:
http://www.adl.org/international/Israel-UN-1-introduction.asp

* Of ten emergency special sessions called by the GA, six have been about Israel. No emergency sessions have been held on the R
wandan genocide, ethnic cleaning in the former Yugoslavia, or the two decades of atrocities in Sudan.

* At the U.N. Commission on Human Rights in Geneva, only Israel has its own agenda item (item 8) dealing with alleged human rights violations. All other countries are dealt with in a separate agenda item (item 9). More than one quarter of the resolutions condemning a state's human rights violations adopted by the Commission over the past 40 years have been directed at Israel.

* A series of anti-Israel resolutions are passed each year by the GA.

* Until recently, Israel was the only member nation consistently denied admission into a regional group. The Arab states continue to prevent Israeli membership in the Asian Regional Group, Israel's natural geopolitical grouping. As a result, Israel sought entry into the Western and Others Group (WEOG) and was granted admission in May 2000 to that regional group in New York, but not in Geneva. Israel's full participation in the U.N., therefore, is still limited and it is restricted from participating in U.N.-Geneva based activities.

snip


Moreover, in a Wall Street Journal article contained in this link,

http://christianactionforisrael.org/un/all.html

a critique of recent UN studies on antisemitism reveals the following gems, from the UN report:


The genuine Zionism of many Jews helps to explain the fact that many people wrongly feel that most Jews lend their unconditional support to Israeli policies. That is why we have seen attacks on synagogues, arson attacks on schools, desecration of cemeteries, for reasons that have nothing to do either with religion, or education, or the peaceful rest of the deceased, but that have a great deal to do with a political and a territorial conflict. . . .

In the past, anti-Semitism as a phenomenon was absent from the Arab-Muslim world. Here, the Arab-Israeli conflict plays an essential role, but another important element is the perception of the State of Israel as the "Trojan horse" of the West in the Middle East. Anti-Semitism would therefore be a particular manifestation of the hatred felt for the West, partly for financial reasons. . . .

snip


These conclusions, to my mind, are misleading.


Just by looking at the articles I posted on the "New Antisemitism" thread, one can conclude that the average person, anywhere on the planet, simply doesn't make fine distinctions between Zionists, Israelis and Jewish people. Such distinctions are fine for discussions like this one but in the "real world", an Israeli is a Jew. Even if he is an Arab. And vice-versa. A Zionist is a Jew, even if he is a Christian or even a Muslim. And so forth.

Any approach to the problem of global antisemitism that does not recognize this fact, is missing the boat.

And, while agreeing that the very EXISTENCE of Eretz Israel and the brutality of war have played into the theme of antisemitism, to blame the one for the other is most innaccurate.

***

Antisemitism predated Israel by nearly 2000 years, and was one of the prime reasons for the creation of the State! Hello? Has anyone ever heard of THE HOLOCAUST?

To blame Israel for the creation of antisemitism is breathtaking in its wrongheadedness.

Moreover, I think it is antisemitism itself, as much as any other factor, which is driving the ongoing war, and which was one MAJOR factor in creating it in the first place. I don't see, how, reading the posts attached to the "new antisemitism" thread, and the articles which just lightly touch on the Mufti of Jerusalem and his Nazi connections on the "apartheid" thread, and how the false and slanderous "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" is still being taught and TELEVISED, one can come to any other conclusion.

To claim that antisemitism was absent from the Middle East before the creation of Israel, or before the Zionist settlers arrived, is completely nonsensical and false.

***

This article reveals other ideas as to how Jews can stop from being persecuted, which really blew me away. Read it.

Finally, excerpting the same article, and regarding the devastating genocide in the Sudan, we have this paragraph, also from the UN:

It is interesting to compare the U.N. expert's incisive analysis of the underlying hatred in Sudan. After noting in the same report that two million Sudanese have died and four million have been displaced, he muses that "massacres, allegedly ethnically motivated, are continuing to claim victims in the Darfur region. . . . The Special Rapporteur therefore proposes to give greater priority to this region with a view to conducting . . . an investigation . . . of the ethnic dimension of the conflicts ravaging it."


Great. So, after millions - MILLIONS - have been killed and displaced, we will have AN INVESTIGATION.


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Coastie for Truth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-17-05 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
18. When it comes to some SELECTED UN Actions, my guy is
<>
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-05 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #18
25. Fuckin' A.
Yosemite Sam gets one right. YEE HAW!!!!!!!
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Englander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-05 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #25
26. Billy?
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-05 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. You just don't get it. The UN record on Israel is one of exterminationist
double standards.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-05 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Jdemsindiana Donating Member (99 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-18-05 08:53 AM
Response to Original message
24. The UN
more nations would vote for the world being flat then vote for Israel
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Lithos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-05 05:49 PM
Response to Original message
30. Locking
Tangential discussion, inflammatory.
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