Reuters: Armed Men Seize CNN (Producer) in Gaza-Witnesses

[DeepModem Mom]

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=6344501

GAZA (Reuters) - Armed men seized an Arab-Israeli employee of the CNN news network in the Gaza Strip on Monday, witnesses said.
There was no immediate claim of responsibility and it was unclear whether the CNN producer, identified by the witnesses as Riyad Ali, was taken away in Gaza City by militants or members of the Palestinian security forces....

***

Palestinian sources said armed men stopped a car in which a CNN correspondent and Ali were traveling.

"Who is Riyad Ali," they asked, according to the sources. "I am," Ali answered, and the gunmen took him away.


(NOTE: The CNN International reporter was Ben Wedeman, who described the incident on-air.)


From Haaretz:

Armed men in Gaza kidnap Israeli citizen working for CNN
By Arnon Regular, Haaretz Correspondent, and Haaretz Service
PA in contact with armed men to try to negotiate release of Riad Abu Ali; men beat other CNN crew and steal their equipment.

Four armed Palestinians kidnapped an Israeli citizen on Monday evening in Gaza City.

The Israeli, Riad Abu Ali, works as an assistant producer for the American CNN television news network.

CNN confirmed that one of its employees had been kidnapped.

The Palestinian Authority is in contact with the armed men in an attempt to negotiate his release....

http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/spages/482510.html


CTV:

Armed men seize CNN employee in Gaza
CTV.ca News Staff

Armed men grabbed an Arab-Israeli employee of the CNN news network in Gaza City on Monday, the network says.

It was unclear whether the CNN producer, identified as Riyad Ali, was taken away by militants or members of the Palestinian security forces.

There was no immediate claim of responsibility.

Correspondent Ben Wedemen said he and Ali were travelling in a CNN van when two car pulled in front of them. The men armed with AK-47 assault rifles and pistols got out and ordered Ali out of the van....

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1096305502007_91714702/?hub=World

[whistle]

1. Abducted by who, any idea if it was Hamas or Israeli secret police?

[htuttle]

2. Abducted by which side?

Wouldn't even begin to guess at this point.

It's sad that I can't just assume it's not the Israeli government...

[Emboldened Chimp]

3. A CNN International producer was kidnapped?

[West Coast Democrat]

4. It was only a matter of time....

before something like this happened.

[a_random_joel]

5. How can you guys ask which side?

This is getting ridiculous.

Israel makes plenty of mistakes, but this is not their M.O.

[Minstrel Boy]

6. Oh, plenty of reasons.

"this is not their M.O."

Why wouldn't it be?

Mordecai Vanunu was lured, drugged, abducted and spirited to Israel, then locked up for 20 years. And that wasn't even a black bag job.

[a_random_joel]

7. There's a difference...

Between going after someone who revealed state secrets and an innocent press person.

Vanunu revealed state secrets. The Israelis had a reason to go after him. Just like any country would do if one of its citizens engaged in behavior they consider treasonous.

A CNN producer is an entirely different thing. Apples and Oranges here, friend.

[Minstrel Boy]

9. And as I said, "it wasn't even a black bag job"

I'm not assuming this was, but neither am I ruling it out because I presume such an action to be morally reprehensible to Mossad or its assets.

[a_random_joel]

12. You want to talk morally reprehensible?

Again, I am no apologist for Sharon and the Likudniks...

But one side has a pretty consistent pattern of clear morally reprehensible activities. I can cite hundreds of cases.

The other side, hits the "gray area" frequently, but I remain unconvinced that they intentionally and consistently engage in morally reprehensible behavior. Can you cite an as many cases?

[DemFromMem]

35. Absolutely

I'm anti-Sharon as well (though I'm happy about the stuff he's been stealing from the Labor Party like the Gaza pullout and the fence - to the extent it is inside the Green Line).

I'm appalled that reasonable people would suspect Israel of this. Israel probably has the highest concentration of foreign journalists in the world there and they operate quite freely. The same cannot be said for journalists in a lot of other hotspots in the world.

The anti-Israel hate that comes out of certain segments of the far left is driving people to Bush - both Christians and Jews. Bush and the Republicans have done an excellent job playing up the shrill anti-Israel rhetoric as a way to pick off people that might be inclined to vote Democratic when they try and portray these views as mainstream for the Democrats.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

11. Whatever you say. I've seen pictures of some of the Palestinian....

...women and children that the Israelis have gone after, too. Besides living on land that the Israelis want, what other justification do the Israelis have?

[a_random_joel]

14. The key is INTENT

The Israelis have the blood of innocents on their hands, but it is not with INTENT.

The Palestinians INTENTIONALLY go after civillians.

That is the difference. And it is essential.

[Minstrel Boy]

18. Intentions are held in the heart.

How are we capable of presuming intention?

It's a justification for indiscriminate slaughter, because when innocents die, as most always are, it was not the intention.

[a_random_joel]

20. A suicide bomber going into a shopping mall.

Intent seems pretty clear to me.

[Minstrel Boy]

23. A gunship over Gaza

Intent seems pretty clear to me.

[a_random_joel]

27. Two different scenarios. The gunship is going after militants.

Militants take cover in civillian areas. It is horrific that innocents die, but again we are discussing "intent."

How many Israeil militants are in the shopping mall?

[Aidoneus]

33. Why do you assume this?

Aside from the will of dedicated true-believers, there has been no past evidence, judging from a wide history of events and tendencies, that would suggest belief in such a pattern and the knee-jerk "positive" assumption..

[a_random_joel]

42. Ummm, because there are numerous reports of it.

[mike_c]

41. the difference is one of labels only....

Everyone the Israelis kill is a "militant."

[Name removed]

45. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mike_c]

51. of course I acknowledge that the intifada has caused suffering...

...and death in occupied Palestine. I also think that the Palestinian cause is just.

I am a pacifist in most matters, and I decry the deaths of all innocents regardless of the reasons put forward to justify their killing. Unfortunately, the zionists' apartheid society forces all Israelis to share responsibility for the occupation and repression of Palestine-- their very statehood depends upon the disenfranchisement, repression, and murder of Palestinians. I do not wish harm upon Israelis-- I wish only justice for both parties. Still, as long as the Israelis deny the Palestinians justice, I believe that they are responsible for the intifada and its consequences.

[Name removed]

58. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Lithos]

61. All

Please avoid personal commentary including calling someone a disruptor or accusing people of being apologists for either Israel or Palestine.

Lithos
I/P Moderator
Democratic Underground

[a_random_joel]

66. Apologies if I offended anyone

I still think it unfair that some here fail to acknowledge any wrong doing on the part of the Palestinians.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

24. So does a missile fired into an apartment building, or a bulldozer....

...knocking down houses with people still in them.

[a_random_joel]

28. The intended target is the difference.

[Minstrel Boy]

US killed how many hundreds in Fallujah last week?

Mostly innocents, and many children.

But...they meant well?

[Media_Lies_Daily]

32. Knowing full well that the "intended target" is surrounded by people,...

...men, women, and children who have nothing to do with ANY radical Palestinian organization...are you saying that it's okay to blow up their building as long as you kill the "intended target"?

I bet Rumsfeld could find a job for you.

[a_random_joel]

40. No, it's not OK. But there is still a difference between that and

going after innocents with NO intended military target.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

21. Oh, brother. You need to do some serious homework.

[a_random_joel]

25. I can easily say the same thing to you.

I have been admitting that both sides are flawed...

You apparently are only capable of seeing one side's flaws.

And you have the chutzpah to lecture me about homework.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

34. Until you come up with a link for ANY "Palestinian secret prison" you...

...discussed in an earlier post, I'll continue to regard the contents of your posts as critically flawed.

[a_random_joel]

39. It was a rhetorical device.

I don't have links of Palestinian prisons. I do have links of plenty of other equally reprehensible Palestinian abuses.

Torture, murder, going after civillians.

[mike_c]

37. Palestine has no army, so Isreal does indeed target civilians....

Furthermore, Isreal's history since the 1940's has included CONSTANT repression and murder of Palestinian civilians. The zionists started it to clear the land and they've never stopped. Institutionalized murder is the logical endpoint for apartheid.

[a_random_joel]

48. Israel has an army, Palestinians target civillians ANYWAY.

Further the same can be said about Palestinian and Arab treatment of Israelis during the same period, and even before it.

Read about the 1920 pogroms before you talk to me about history.

[Djinn]

59. Israel would not exist

were it not for the terrorism inflicted on Jewish, Arab and British by Jewish terror gangs like Stern, Irgun etc - perhaps YOU need to do some readin before talking about history

[Minstrel Boy]

16. Maybe he wasn't regarded as "an innocent press person"

Maybe his presence alone was regarded as a provocation, and his abduction a message delivered to the media.

From Norman Solomon, "They Shoot Journalists, Don't They?":

Israel Defense Forces are notorious for targeting journalists in the occupied territories. There’s a pattern of shooting at journalists -- with the IDF hierarchy refusing to hold anyone accountable for the results. "Over the years," the latest CPJ report explains, "the army has failed to conduct thorough investigations into cases where journalists have been wounded or killed by IDF gunfire, let alone punish those responsible for the attacks. The same can be said for troops who physically attack or otherwise mistreat journalists in the field."

For the authorities in charge of an occupation, the positive deterrent effects of such policies are self-evident when journalists know that their lives will be in danger if they try to document instances of brutality on the part of occupiers.

It’s not necessary to shoot too many journalists. If the goal is to discourage overly intrepid coverage on the ground, some occasional killing can be a real disincentive.

http://www.fair.org/media-beat/040311.html

[a_random_joel]

19. Journalists in war zones get shot.

It sucks, but it happens all the time.

[Minstrel Boy]

26. "There’s a pattern of shooting at journalists"

Yeah, sucks to be a journalist. As the Arab-Israeli CNN producer is discovering.

[a_random_joel]

46. Joel admits Israeli flaws; opponents will not do the same re:Palestinians

End of debate.

I have repeatedly admitted instances where the Israelis have made mistakes.

You folks in your Anti-Israel frenzy have not ONCE conceded that the Palestinians are guilty of any wrongdoing.

[Minstrel Boy]

52. "I have repeatedly admitted instances where Israelis have made mistakes"

Yet we're not referring to mistakes.

Norman Solomon is talking about the intentional targetting of journalists by the IDF.

And this isn't "anti-Israel frenzy" on my part. It's just for me, the Israel state apparatus lost some time ago the presumption of best intentions.

[a_random_joel]

53. Fine. By mistakes I mean wrong doing.

I still have yet to hear you admit or denounce Palestinian wrongdoing.

Indeed, you justify it... it's the Israeli's fault.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

8. If it was the Israelis, why do you assume it was a mistake?

[a_random_joel]

10. I don't see the Israelis abducting innocents.

I do see the Palestinians doing it. Especially with the wave of hostage taking in Iraq proving to be an "effective" strategy.

[w4rma]

13. I see the right-wing fanatics in the Likud Party controlling Israeli's

government doing it.

Just like I see the right-wing fanatics in the Republican Party controlling our government doing it.

[a_random_joel]

15. Really?

When you want to accuse someone of an activity, you generally should have a previous pattern of such activities with which to base your presumption on.

In this case, where are the previous instances?

[Media_Lies_Daily]

17. Before hearing about the Abu Ghraib and Gitmo prisons...

...I wouldn't have thought the U. S. capable of acts like that either. Unfortunately, my assumption proved incorrect.

Here's an article about Israel's secret prison...

Inside Israel's secret prison
<http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=331637&sw=%22Inside+Israel's+secret+prison%22>

[a_random_joel]

22. Balance.

I did not say the Israelis where cherubs.

Where is your article about the Palestinians' secret prisons?

[Media_Lies_Daily]

29. "Palestinians' secret prisons"??? Are you at all familiar with that....

...part of the world?? Where the heck would the Palestinians hide a prison??

[a_random_joel]

43. Again, it was a rhetorical device.

They don't have an "organized" prison. They still have places where they murder and torture people.

Remember the "Bloody hands" guy? Where was that done?

[Aidoneus]

31. 1391 for example?

on edit: somebody already mentioned 1391.. :(

Where is your article on these mythical secret Palestinian-run prisons? Short of temporary denentions, I have not heard of such things and I consider myself somewhat well-read. Assumed or lack of desires for such aside, the conditions on the ground rather forbid such "secret" anythings on their part, let alone the execution of such facilities..

[a_random_joel]

47. Joel admits Israeli flaws; opponents will not do the same re:Palestinians

End of debate.

I have repeatedly admitted instances where the Israelis have made mistakes.

You folks in your Anti-Israel frenzy have not ONCE conceded that the Palestinians are guilty of any wrongdoing.

[Aidoneus]

50. Where is your article on these prisons?

Joel has yet to produce a reference.. Joel speaks of himself in third person, spams the board with the same empty reply, makes things up about the subject and also about those he speaks with, ends debate when his rhetoric is questioned..

[a_random_joel]

54. There are no "organized prisons." I have repeatedly said I was using

a rhetorical device. There are instances when Palestinians have tortured captured Israelis such as the infamous Bloody Hands episode which occurred in a PA police building.

Nonetheless, you have yet to concede any wrong doing on the part of Palestinians.

Which is a blow to not only your credibility but to any moral judgments you render from atop your glittering pedestal.

[Aidoneus]

30. on the contrary,

they do so quite regularly, when not firing rockets at them. Your mind's lens may be a little dusty or inattentive?

[a_random_joel]

44. Joel admits Israeli flaws; opponents will not do the same re:Palestinians

End of debate.

I have repeatedly admitted instances where the Israelis have made mistakes.

You folks in your Anti-Israel frenzy have not ONCE conceded that the Palestinians are guilty of any wrongdoing.

[Forkboy]

63. Forkboy is amused by people refferring to themselves in the third person

[Name removed]

57. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[a_random_joel]

67. Whatever you say, chief.

I'd be real careful before you call someone ignorant.

[a_random_joel]

68. Palestinian MO as well, as confirmed by Reuters and history.

Keep trying.

[wicket]

36. horrible, I hope he's ok...

:(

[Dr Fate]

38. Did CNN coin the phrase, "Amercia's New War"

Or was that their twin, FOX?

CNN, you got your war now. How is it all working out for you?

[Surf Cowboy]

49. Maybe now CNN will go back to reporting the truth instead of being a

BushCo conglomerate hack.

It's always a little harder to bullshit the world when you suddenly become victim to your own B.S.

Hope the guy's OK, but fuck CNN.

[a_random_joel]

55. UPDATE: Per Reuters - it WAS Palestinians.

http://olympics.reuters.com/printerFriendlyPopup.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=6344674

<snip>

Armed Palestinians seized an Israeli Arab producer for the CNN television network from a car in Gaza City on Monday after asking for him by name.

</snip>

[a_random_joel]

56. Hmmm... Awfully quiet in here now...

*crickets*

*crickets*

*crickets*

*crickets*

*crickets*

[Name removed]

60. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Djinn]

62. no they just gave

up arguing with someone who's response was "end of debate" and who's tactic was to accuse them of being "anti-Israel" and of refusing to ever proportion blame against Palestinians.

No-one here stated this WASN'T Palestinians - people just asked - you repsonded that that was impossible - you were corrected you then resorted to the debating equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and yelling "I can't hear you I can't hear you"

why would anyone bother?

[IA_Seth]

64. Thanks

That is exactly why I stayed out of it.

I have to deal with stubborn children enough already. I prefer to post to people who will debate rather than just repeat themselves.

[a_random_joel]

65. You misunderstood my point

I wasn't saying end of debate as in I am no longer debating.

My point was that it is futile to debate with people who cannot acknowledge the faults of both sides.

[IA_Seth]

69. Sounds good....

List 5 Israeli faults.

Shouldn't be too hard really.

[a_random_joel]

70. You missed the boat again.

List 5 Palestinian ones.

Shouldn't be too hard really.

[IA_Seth]

71. LOL, my point exactly. N/T

[a_random_joel]

72. I already acknowledge Israeli flaws above. NOT ONE OF YOU has...

acknowledged any Palestinian wrong doing.

Fine, I'll do it again, just for the sake of consistency.

Israel was wrong in bulldozing houses.
Israel has killed civillians in the course of cracking down on the intifada.
Israel has occupied territories it did not have sovereignty of in 1967.
Israeli Mossad has defied Geneva conventions.
Israel's security wall is a questionable means of defense - both strategically and ethically.

Your turn...

[a_random_joel]

73. LOL! Is this thing on?

I have played your game. I have listed 5 Israeli instances of wrong doing.

Ante up...

[a_random_joel]

74. Bueller? Bueller?

Predictable.

[IA_Seth]

75. Don't get your panties in a bunch now.

Excuse my tardiness, I occasionally have other things going on besides trying to debate a faceless entity who will no sooner change his mind than admit that Israel and its entities (IDF) do in fact engage in more than just "gray area" activities....

But, just to shut you up....

1. Targeted civilians in attacks. This is counter productive. By attacking non-military targets they encourage the brutality of the IDF. To use your words, they did this in the course of "cracking down" on the IDF.

2. Promoted the cyclical violence to their youth. I think this is rampant on both sides and is doing nothing to resolve the conflict. I believe is is Hamas that has been especially bad at this.

3. Continued to support Arafat. While he has proven useful to the Palestinian cause in the past, his lack of leadership recently is doing nothing but prolonging the violence.

4. Promoted Anti-Semitic feelings, behaviors, and learning to their people. Please note the difference between anti-semitism and anti-zionism. Religious intolerance should not be acceptable. Intolerance of a ruthless regime bent on dismantling your way of life is expected.

5. Pay families of suicide bombers. This type of exploitation is sad. It takes poor families and uses their loyalty to a cause and their need of money against them.


There ya go. Now can I be through with you?

[a_random_joel]

76. Arrogance will get you nowhere fast, friend.

But I thank you for your balance, armtwisting and all, nonetheless.

[IA_Seth]

77. LOL

I am pretty cool with where I am going, but thanks for the concern.

I don't mean to come across arrogant, but your little "beuller, beuller" and "crickets chirping" posts are about as assinine as you can get really, so maybe it was coming to ya, huh?

P.S. - I am going to leave for the day now, so if I don't respond to something else feel free to "twist my arm" some more and i will get to you in the morning.

[a_random_joel]

78. LOL!

Touche!

:toast:

[Djinn]

79. coz Seth's the arrogant one??

you pop up outta nowhere and start banging on about what regular opsters here do and do not beleive and have and have not said - I'd like to know how you worked that out.

Or if you like just stick you fingers in your ears again

[a_random_joel]

80. We're done and have resolved our differences peacefully.

But, thanks for playing.

And if you perceive that as being arrogant, congratulations.

[Djinn]

81. whatever

:eyes:

[Forkboy]

82. "And if you perceive that as being arrogant, congratulations."

What do I win?

[a_random_joel]

83. a Brand, New 2004 Fork!

:hi: