This is the Enemy

[drdon326]

After killing six Israeli soldiers in an attack on an armored vehicle in Gaza on May 11, the Arabs near the scene of the carnage gleefully held aloft human body parts in front of rolling cameras. One of the Arab terrorists was later interviewed on film with what appeared to be a human head in front of him.

The week before, after shooting at Tali Hatuel's car, causing it to skid and stop, Arab terrorists walked over to the vehicle to finish the occupants off. They looked at the heavily pregnant mother and her four no-doubt frightened girls; the youngest was two years old. And then shot them all. At point-blank range. With sadistic satisfaction, they systematically murdered Tali Hatuel and her unborn son, as well as all of Tali's daughters - Hila, age 11, Hadar, 9, Roni, 7, and two-year-old Meirav.

snip

The people - and I use the term loosely - who carried out the initial beatings threw one of the victims down to the waiting mob, where his face was further crushed with stones, feet, fists and even a heavy metal window frame. One Jew was set on fire and dragged along the street as Arab onlookers danced and cheered. Some of the butchers celebrated their crimes with the victims' internal organs. One of the killers, famously captured on film, proudly displayed his blood-soaked hands to the cheering Ramallah crowd.

And it gets worse. In 2003, nearly two years later, Arab parents in Gaza cheered again when their little children dressed up as members of the Ramallah lynch mob, complete with hands painted blood red, for a kindergarten graduation ceremony.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/article.php3?id=3732
................................................................

juuuuust lovely.

[CharlesGroce]

1. Using the term 'people' loosely

This is hate speech. Post this garbage on some Yahoo message board, not in these esteemed halls of debate.

[Cooley Hurd]

2. It sure is hate speech...

...and it's shameful to see this on a progressive message board. :(

[rpannier]

10. If What was written is true...

calling them anything but barbarians and murderers is being nice.

[drdon326]

12. Ask them which parts are factually wrong??

.

[rpannier]

16. I'm Confused...

I apologise for seeming dim, but are you challenging my position, or telling me to be more forceful in challenging their position?

[drdon326]

18. Not challenging.....no way.

I was asking you to challange their position.

[Classical_Liberal]

42. Smearing the killing of soldiers with civlians is sure as hell wrong

, and I think it is hate speech.

[Jim Sagle]

58. These "civilians" were smearing blood all over the place. I hate their

stinking guts. Too bad if you don't like it.

[Jim Sagle]

32. Like FUCK it's hate speech.

[newyorican]

34. Lovely...

:crazy:

[drdon326]

35. Jimbo....

I believe the person to whom you responded was shocked
and amazed at the level of depravity presented in the article.
And when faced with this reality resorted to cognitive dissonance
and lashed out against that reality.

[Jim Sagle]

36. In other words, he shot the messinger.

[drdon326]

37. Didn't I just say that ??

lol

[Jim Sagle]

38. You certainly did. Are you trying to kick this thread or sumthin'?

:hi:

[Andromeda]

48. I agree with the poster.

These are not people who murdered these children. They are animals, because anybody with an ounce of humanity would recoil in disgust at these inhumane and heinous acts of terror against innocent women and children who never did anything to deserve this.

Garbage is in the eyes of the beholder and the true garbage lies with the horrible acts commited by these barbarians and not with semantics.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

3. How about some...

Independent confirmation of these events? These descriptions cut a little too close to the accounts of "Blood Libel" that have been passed around for years, as gospel, by the worst in society.

These are extraordinary claims. As such, they require cocommitent proofs.

[Name removed]

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[Village Idiot]

5. I disagree...

This is NOT hate speech. Welcome to the truth, ostriches...This has been an often documented, brutal attack on the innocent. If you are all too lazy to google "Tali Hatuel," you really have no grounds for complaint regarding this account.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[Gildor Inglorion]

7. Hideous brutality, but...

the incident happened in Gaza, a pestilential hell-hole partially occupied and totally controlled by Israel. I certainly don't approve of blaming the victims, but the fact remains that if the woman's husband had kept his wife and children in Israel proper, this incident would not have taken place. If I hire some thugs and occupy several square blocks in Guadalajara, declaring this territory mine because I say so, I should expect the rightful owners to try to take it back by any means necessary. Israel is NOT always right, and the Palestinians are NOT always wrong.

[Andromeda]

49. So, you condone murder?

I guess its okay with you since you say that Jewish people shouldn't be in Gaza so it doesn't matter what happens to innocents because they have no business being there anyway? So the rape victim "asks for it" because she wore sexy clothing and burglers who break into somebody's home are only taking advantage of their opportunity to steal because the house is "there" sitting on the street just waiting to be broken into.

No victim "asks for it." That's just screwed up logic.

[ugarte]

8. Let's agree there is ample grief on both sides

and a shortage of leadership.

[rpannier]

14. Agreed n/t

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

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[drdon326]

11. Tell me....

which part of the article do you find factually wrong?

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

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[rpannier]

17. I Have One Problem...

I'm not a big supporter. In fact, much to the shagrin of many of my friends back home in the states, I am a critic of most of what Israel does. But, why is posting pro-Israel stories divisive, while the litany of anti-Israel postings are allowed to go on, unchallenged? If pro-Israel postings is divisive, then I would argue that pro-Arab postings are just as divisive.

[drdon326]

19. Double standard ??

:shrug:?

[Jim Sagle]

33. No way. Couldn't be.

[Classical_Liberal]

43. That soldiers who kill soldiers are terrorists.

That is factually wrong. The displaying of the bodies, maybe was a war crime but so are house demolitions, prison rapes of Palestinians. Let's not forget, bombings of Palestinian children at soccer matches. and Arab schools, and rifle butting children in the head, all acts committed by Israelis.

[rpannier]

13. Disagree

Many DUers post anti-Israel postings without documenting Palestinian atrocities. Most are all aware that Sharon and Arafat are a big part of the problem. Arafat has done little-to-nothing to stop the attacks. Sharon is a butcher. And that is at the heart of the problem. Until people get over their hatred and over things that happened twenty years ago, they'll still continue killing.
BTW, why does being pro-Israel make one radical? What is pro-Palestinian? Because if being pro-Palestinian is NOT radical, then I have to say you have certainly shown your bias.

[newyorican]

20. Nice hate-site...

posting from some blithering hate-site that doesn't believe in the existence of Palestinians.

Just Lovely...

[newyorican]

21. The Arutz Sheva view of Israel...

decribed as the "pro-settler, eg. pro-colonist, eg. pro-transfer, eg. pro-genocide paper of record.

Something is missing from this map, what can it be...hmmm...

[The Magistrate]

23. The Problem With This Article, My Dear Doctor

Is the writer's contention those who participated in such activities can only be called human under loose rules of usage. The sort of activities described are quite commen to human beings, and have been throughout their history on this planet....

[Gimel]

25. Perhaps barbaric

would be a more correct term. You are quite right, Mag. Remember the Lord of the Flies by Golding (maybe wrong spelling of author's name) I believe?

[drdon326]

26. Well...let me ask you.....

the exact quote by the author of this opinion piece is..
"The people - and I use the term loosely - who carried out the initial beatings threw one of the victims down to the waiting mob, where his face was further crushed with stones, feet, fists and even a heavy metal window frame."




What words would you to describe people who purposefully "throw one of the victims down to the waiting mob, where his face was further crushed with stones, feet, fists and even a heavy metal window frame"??

What words would you use to describe the shooting pregnant mother and her four no-doubt frightened girls.... At point-blank range... With sadistic satisfaction as they systematically murdered Tali Hatuel and her unborn son, as well as all of Tali's daughters - Hila, age 11, Hadar, 9, Roni, 7, and two-year-old Meirav??

And what words would you use to describe people who gleefully held aloft human body parts in front of rolling cameras ??

[The Magistrate]

28. Human Beings, Doctor

Filled to exhaltation with emotions of hate and rage and cruelty. These things can come over any of us in certain circumstances. It can be enjoyable to liken one's foes to something un-human, but that is the first pre-requisite for treating them abominab;ly, after all....

[drdon326]

30. Interesting....

"It can be enjoyable to liken one's foes to something un-human, but that is the first pre-requisite for treating them abominab;ly, after all...."

I RESPECTFULLY disagree.....it is NOT!! enjoyable to liken ones foes to something un-human....

on edit...nor should it EVER be enjoyable.

[newyorican]

31. LOL...

That horse has already left the barn.

Besides, the correct quote is "...can be enjoyable..."

Don't be so defensive Doc...

[Classical_Liberal]

44. Settler clubs 11 yr old to death with rifle butt, and gets cruel 6 months

Settler clubs 11 yr old to death with rifle butt, and gets a cruel 6 month sentence.

Suzanne Goldenberg in Jerusalem
Monday January 22, 2001
The Guardian

A Jewish settler who clubbed a Palestinian child to death with a rifle butt was sentenced to six months' community service yesterday in a decision denounced as an outrage by human rights organisations.

The Jerusalem district court said it decided not to jail Nachum Korman for the killing of 11-year-old Hilmi Shusha four years ago because he had only been convicted of manslaughter by negligence, and had served eight months in prison. It fined him 70,000 shekels (about £11,600).

The sentence handed down by the Jerusalem district court yesterday is especially suspect because it was determined by the same judge, Ruth Or, who acquitted Korman at his original trial after rejecting evidence from witnesses and the state pathologist.

That verdict was overturned by the supreme court, which convicted him of manslaughte

http://:www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,426101,00.html

Settlers bombing children and soccer statdium

On June 2, 1980, the Livni cell planted bombs in the cars of Nablus Mayor Bassani Shaka'a, who lost both of his legs, and Ramallah Mayor Karim Khalaf, who lost half his foot. They also put a bomb on the garage door of elBireh Mayor Ibrahim Tawil, which blinded an Israeli soldier who tried to defuse the explosive. The terrorists claimed later that their aim in attacking the mayors was "not to kill them; killed they would become martyrs, while wounded they would serve as a living ongoing deterrent. " A TNT bomb exploded that same day in a crowded Hebron market injuring 11 Palestinians, including four children.

"Regional Defense"

The Livni group obtained the weapons used in bombing the mayors' cars from the Israel Defense Forces as part of a "regional defense program." They also stole mines left over from the Syrian defense positions on the Golan Heights. As with Dr. Baruch Goldstein, the settlers were issued weapons for serving in the Israeli military reserve, which they were permitted to do near their settlements.

In October 1992 TNT bombed a soccer stadium in Hebron, injuring two
Palestinian children. In February 1993, Muslim guards found bombs in two mosques in Hebron just before they exploded. In July 1993, two of the three men released in 1991 carried out a militarystyle assault on Hebron University. Wearing Arab clothing and driving a West Bank car, the settlers sprayed machine-gun fire and tossed hand grenades, killing four students and seriously injuring over 30 others.

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:Hv5mmU00CKgJ:www.wrmea.com/backissues/0694/9406008.htm+settler+kill+children&hl=en

Settlers bomb children in school

1. School children attacked in village near Hebron

September 18, 2002 - The Palestine Monitor

Six Palestinian pupils, between the ages of 6 and 13, were injured yesterday when a bomb exploded in the schoolyard of Zeif Yatta Elementary School (south of Hebron). Two bombs were planted in the schoolyard; the first bomb went off at about 9:45 a.m. in a powerful explosion which blew out some of the windows of the school.

According to the headmaster, Dr. Youssef Abed Rabbo, it was sheer luck that a massacre didn’t take place: “The bomb went off when the classes were in session and none of the children were outside playing. Our gymnastics teacher did not come to work today; if he was here the schoolyard would have been full of pupils at the time the bomb went off. When I first heard the explosion I thought it was Israeli tank shells hitting the school, as the Israeli army comes and goes in the village constantly”.

After the bomb went off, Israeli soldiers and police arrived at the scene. A second bomb was found and detonated safely before more children could be hurt.

http://www.palestinemonitor.org/Special%20Section/Back%20to%20school/school_children_attacked_in_village.htm

[Jack Rabbit]

39. Attributed to Mark Twain

I have no prejudice, whether a man be white or black, Jew or Gentile, debtor or creditor, old or young. The moment he says he is a man he can't say anything worse.

[The Magistrate]

40. He Was A Marvel, My Friend

And expressed that sentiment many times in many ways.

That one is perhaps the best of them: thank you for the chortle!

[bemildred]

46. A formative influence.

Let's not forget Mr. Bierce either.

Lickspittle, n. A useful functionary, not infrequently
found editing a newspaper.

Peace, n. In international affairs, a period of cheating
between two periods of fighting.

I must say I have a fondness for Mr. Twain, he introduced me to the
idea that there might not be any good guys.

[Vladimir]

47. The devil has the best jokes, as usual n/t

[the Kelly Gang]

27. the tone of this piece implies that all Arabs are capable of butchery

and is very unbalanced in my view.

using terms like "with sadistic safistfaction" is embroidery..was the writer there ? did he interview the killers to ascertain their psychological state of mind ?...or is he just assuming these things because they are Palestinians .

When you start this type of comparison about which race is the greatest at butchery it is just an endless road..only the other day we hear that 3 young children are beheaded in Baltimore but we do not assume that all citizens of that city would do the same.

I cannot see really how an Arab child blown to pieces by an Israeli rocket meant for a Hamas member is any less horrific than the events described here.

Many people are capable of sheer brutality and hideous acts including Americans , Jews and Arabs.

However if the Palestinians had their homeland there would undoubtedly be less killing.

[The Magistrate]

29. The Usage 'Sadistic Satisfaction', Mr. Kelly

Is a reasonable inferrence from the act itself, and would be applied by most anyone to a person who committed such an act, regardless of ethnicity.

All humans must be considered, on the record of the species, capable of such butchery.

"I know of nothing against him except that he is a human being: that ought to suffice to hang any man."

[Gimel]

41. "there would undoubtedly be less killing"

It is doubtful that persons who had committed such crimes, and the mobs that accompanied them could actually rid themselves of the direction they have taken. The scenes are reminiscent of something Charles Manson might have done. While human beings can be driven to extremes under extreme circumstances, the ingrained teachings and sureness of moral resolve would not let most of us participate or view such a scene without strong moral objections.

I can't think of anyone who would be happy to have Charles Manson living in the house next-door, even after his "rehabilitation".

It will take another generation or two before that wall comes down.

[Classical_Liberal]

45. I have the same doubts about Israelis who rifle butt children

and only get six months. It isn't like a man that kills like this and gets away with it has any incentive not to do it again?

Settler clubs 11 yr old to death with rifle butt, and gets a cruel 6 month sentence.

Suzanne Goldenberg in Jerusalem
Monday January 22, 2001
The Guardian

A Jewish settler who clubbed a Palestinian child to death with a rifle butt was sentenced to six months' community service yesterday in a decision denounced as an outrage by human rights organisations.

The Jerusalem district court said it decided not to jail Nachum Korman for the killing of 11-year-old Hilmi Shusha four years ago because he had only been convicted of manslaughter by negligence, and had served eight months in prison. It fined him 70,000 shekels (about £11,600).

The sentence handed down by the Jerusalem district court yesterday is especially suspect because it was determined by the same judge, Ruth Or, who acquitted Korman at his original trial after rejecting evidence from witnesses and the state pathologist.

That verdict was overturned by the supreme court, which convicted him of manslaughte

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:y1p7oj-OKWkJ:www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,426101,00.html+settler+kill+children&hl=ena

[Gimel]

51. Repetition

A single incident, of an army related death, that you have repeated several times, is in any way equivalent. Israelis aren't asking to move into PA territory.

No Israeli school would put on a pageant play glorifying that, teaching children that this is heroic behavior.

[Classical_Liberal]

53. Israelis aren't asking to move into PA territory?

I'll let that one speak for itself.

[Gimel]

54. Actually not

The Gaza residents might want to move to West Bank, but that is not a change.

[Name removed]

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[Jack Rabbit]

56. The Israelis aren't asking to move into PA territory

They've never asked. They move into PA territory without asking.

[Djinn]

57. Good point!

[Djinn]

59. Alert away

I prefer to argue my point but feel free anyway...

PLease explain the settlements in Gaza and the West Bank in light of your statement "Israelis aren't asking to move into PA territory."

Except of course the proviso Jack points out - the settlers never asked!

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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