Israel lays claim to Palestine's water

[cthrumatrix]

Israel lays claim to Palestine's water


10:15 27 May 04

Exclusive from New Scientist Print Edition. Subscribe and get 4 free issues.

Israel has drawn up a secret plan for a giant desalination plant to supply drinking water to the Palestinian territory on the West Bank. It hopes the project will diminish pressure for it to grant any future Palestinian state greater access to the region's scarce supplies of fresh water.

Under an agreement signed a decade ago as part of the Oslo accord, four-fifths of the West Bank's water is allocated to Israel, though the aquifers that supply it are largely replenished by water falling onto Palestinian territory.

The new plans call for seawater to be desalinated at Caesaria on the Mediterranean coast, and then pumped into the West Bank, where a network of pipes will deliver it to large towns and many of the 250 villages that currently rely on local springs and small wells for their water.


snip...

http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99995037

[papau]

1. Good idea - - IMHO

:-)

[Devils Advocate NZ]

4. Not even close! Why not let the Palestinians keep their own water...

And set up the desalination plant for Israel? It seems to me that would be the fairer deal.

[papau]

14. Ground water can't be divided- our Western State water belongs to no state

The plant is need - and is either in Gaza or very near.

Indeed the Western State water is a classic example of the ruin caused by the "common"- it has dropped a couple hundred feet in my lifetime as each state tries to draw up more than the others - since the cost is "zero" what does one person have to lose - yet in the end all lose.

[damnraddem]

24. And the pipeline runs through Israel and is controlled by Israel.

For decades, Israel has stolen Palestine's water just as it has its land. Before allowing a 'two-state solution,' Israel is trying to ensure that it will always dominate both. So, it tears down houses to create a cordon sanitaire around Gaza, and makes all of Palestine dependent upon water in Israel's control.

The solution is to destroy the settlements and let Palestine have its own ground water. Israel can see how well IT does with the desalinization plant, especially as oil prices increase.

[Vitruvius]

20. Desalination plants use a LOT of energy -- typically from OIL

and is 'way too expensive to use for farming. But water from the aquifer can be had for just the cost of pumping it.

There's no 'way the Palestinians -- most of whom are poor farmers -- can possibly afford to run that desalination plant. As Devils Advocate NZ pointed out above, the fairer deal would be for the Palestinians to keep their own water and the Israelis to get the desalination plant. But even Israel couldn't afford the energy bill to run it.

There's only so much water in the mideast. By stealing the Palestinians' water, the Israelis can turn part of their desert into farmland. And without water, a corresponding acreage of Palestinian farmland will turn into desert. Leaving the Palestinian farmers to STARVE.

This Israeli water grab is the functional equivalent of another Israeli land grab.

Why is there terrorism? Because the Bu$h and Sharon gangs think they can ruin peoples' lives, rip off their natural resources (e.g. Iraqi oil or Palestinian water) and leave them to STARVE -- and bomb, shoot, torture, and kill them if they don't like it. If you put somebody's back to the wall, they will ALWAYS fight back.

We're rich, and Israel is rich. Neither of us needs to disgrace ourselves by stealing even more from others. And stealing from poor people struggling to survive is doubly despicable.

Vitruvius

[Gimel]

31. The Kinneret

The Lake Kinneret (Sea of Galilee) is not in the West Bank. Israel's water is pumped from that sea (about 3/4 of it) the rest from other reservoirs.

Too much drilling destroys the underground water sources, which is the cause of much of the problems in the West Bank. Treating the water to make it potable is expensive, and all tap water in Israel is treated, not simply "pumped".

This article points out that co-operation on water distribution has not been disrupted due to the conflict. However, referring to the regions water as "West Bank aquifers" is in essence saying that the region's water belongs to the West Bank alone. If everything there is belongs to them, of course they see any land or water use by Israel as the "theft".

Propaganda in the making.

[Classical_Liberal]

33. It is theft. Gaza and the West Bank are Palestinians land

Furthermore, using it for swimming pools and bermuda grass lawns, while Palestinians don't even have enough to drink and often go thirsty, and while most actually can't bathe, is really pretty selfish, and does amout to rich people stealing from poor ones.

[Gimel]

36. They have no water

There has been ample rain for two years now. There is plenty of water. There are very few swimming pools, one or two municipal pools for a small city.

I don't know what "bermuda grass lawns" are, but there is a postage-stamp sized lawn in the front of this apartment building. Most do not have that.

[Classical_Liberal]

37. anecdotal. Here are some statistics.

Water has always been a source of conflict in the Middle East. Israeli attempts to divert water from the Jordan-Yarmouk river basin into the Negev were a key source of the 1967 war. And the Golan Heights, which Israel still refuses to give back to Syria, are also water rich.

Today, Israel uses 79% of the Mountain Aquifer and all of the Jordan River Basin — bar a small quantity that it sells to Palestinians in Gaza. The result is apartheid in all but name.

Israelis get 350 litres of water per person per day, Palestinians get just 70 litres. The minimal quantity of water recommended by the World Health Organisation is 100 litres.

When supplies run low during the summer months, the Israeli water company, Mekorot, simply shuts off the valves that supply Palestinian towns. This means settlers get their swimming pools topped up while Palestinian villages a few miles away run out of drinking water.

When tensions are high — as they are now — the situation becomes unbearable, especially for the 25 per cent of Palestinian villages that were never connected to a water supply....

http://www.williambowles.info/mideast/desert.html

[Gimel]

38. In severe drought

This happens every few years, and Israeli farmers are also required to use little or no water. Three years ago agriculture in Israel was at a standstill. People weren't allowed to water lawns.

There are communities in Israel that are cut off from the water supply from time to time for non-payment of water bills. It's not only the Palestinians that feel the drought.

The Sea of Galilee was at it's lowest point ever three years ago. There was worry that it would permanently damage the ecology. It is not only the Palestinians who suffer from this problem. That is why there are the desalinization plants being constructed and water import from Turkey begins this year. It is a long term contract, not just one year.

Israel suffered economically also, and people were barely making a living until the recent high-tech boom, and other industrial projects started to get underway in the 90's. You can't look at the situation in the territories without understanding Israel's situation also.

The story of the Negev - it is still a desert.


Founded in 1850, recognized by the state in 2004

23/05/2004 01:22
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=429721

[Gimel]

41. Don't call it that

I don't see many "statistics" here. The per day allocation per Israeli vs Palestinian is highly questionable also.

The settlers' swimming pools are not filled with potable water, as recycled water with chlorine added allows for maintaining them (see other post on this). So this is not taking any water from the Palestinians.

Read the full report on the planning for water in the past and future.

In recent years however, the situation has developed into a crisis so severe that it is feared that by the next summer it may be difficult to adequately supply municipal and household water requirements. The current cumulative deficit in Israel's renewable water resources amounts to approximately 2 billion cubic meters, an amount equal to the annual consumption of the State. The deficit has also lead to the qualitative deterioration of potable aquifer water resources that have, in part, become either of brackish quality or otherwise become polluted.

The causes of the crisis are both natural and man-made. Israel has suffered from four consecutive years of drought. The increase in demand for water for domestic uses, caused by population growth and the rising standard of living, together with the need to supply water pursuant to international undertakings have led to over-utilization of its renewable water sources.

The policy for the water sector, particularly in the past decade, combined with the absence of adequate action facing the impending water shortage situation, has contributed to the severity of the present crisis.

The agricultural sector has suffered most because of the crisis. Due to the shortage, water allocations to the sector had to be reduced drastically causing a reduction in the agricultural productivity.

The current crisis has led to the realization that a master plan for policy, institutional and operational changes is required to stabilize the situation and to improve Israel's water balance with a long-term perspective.
Current water situation

[Classical_Liberal]

42. Israelis get 350 litres. Palestinians get just 70 litres.

"It's highly unfair," said Yehezkel Lein, a water expert for Israeli human rights group B'tselem, who help to solve water problems in Palestinian areas.

"We are talking about mainly the mountain aquifer and the Jordan River system. Regarding the first one Israel exploits approximately 80% of the renewal water resources, and the Palestinians the remaining 20%.

"Regarding the Jordan River system, the Palestinians do not have any access." ...........

Illegal wells

The mother of one family in Beit Furik, Fuaz Hanani, told Politics Of Water that they were only able to wash every two weeks, such was the shortage of water.

"I feel angry that Israeli settlers in Itmar drink clean water while my dear family drink water from a well which sometimes has dirty or polluted water," Mrs Hanani said.

However, Jacob Kaidar insisted that, while he hoped co-operation between the two sides would be better in the future, Mrs Hanani should direct her anger towards her own people.

He said Palestinians were stealing water from Israeli pipes and drilling illegal wells.............

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2982730.stm

Which no doubt the refuse to ever give permission for, while settlements get permission all the time.

[Gimel]

43. Drinking water

Israelis either drink bottled spring water or install water filters in their homes, as there have been incidents of water pollution in the system, and residents are warned not to drink the water in certain areas at certain times. This past year has been the worst. Water in the north of the country near Tzfat is better because it is fresh water. Haifa has bad water. It must be filtered.

I'm sorry that there is not fresh clear water for everyone all the time.

[Classical_Liberal]

45. Do they only to bathe every two weeks

I doubt that. Give it up, already.

[Gimel]

48. They said every 5-7 days

they shower. I shower a little more than that, but I only fill the bathtub for medicinal reasons.

Come off it. When there is no water it is difficult. I have lived without water for a few days at a time also. I've lived without electricity. Hardships happen everywhere. Israel is not the wealthy USA.

[Classical_Liberal]

52. Every two weeks

Here is the quote from the article again

The mother of one family in Beit Furik, Fuaz Hanani, told Politics Of Water that they were only able to wash every two weeks, such was the shortage of water.

[Gimel]

44. Distribution

I don't know how these figures are arrived at. Perhaps that is just dividing the population figure into the liters used by each of the two sections. However, it must be remembered, that the divisions are not so exact. Water use in Israel is usually figured for agriculture and domestic use separately. Agricultural use, for export, and industry, also the use for tourist industry, which is a major source of income for Israelis, all require water. It is not so much that each household uses 350 liters per person per year or per month, I don't know. It is usually measured in cubic centimeters, I think.

Hundreds of thousands of Palestinians workers are in Israel every day when there is not a terror alert. They also use water while they are in Israel. The divisions are not as clear as one would like. If things could be divided nice and evenly, everyone getting exactly his or her share, it would save a lot of problems. If the Palestinians were to stay in their land, and Israelis would neither be obliged or expected to offer hospital and medical services, then we might look at the water usage more fairly. It's not like comparing that of Cambodia to Sweden, for example. The two water systems are linked, and the use of the water is also not that clearly divided.

The population of Israel is roughly double that of the territories, so with everything considered, 20% of the available resources is not that bad. Hopefully, there will be more in the near future, so everyone will be satisfied.

I do not use so much water. 350 liters a year would be less than a liter a day. I'm sure I use more than that. If it's 350 liters a day, that far exceeds personal usage.

Again, speaking of an average, there are ways to conserve water even in household use. This should be applied all around.

[Classical_Liberal]

46. It's leters per day not per year

Israelis get 350 litres of water per person per day, Palestinians get just 70 litres. The minimal quantity of water recommended by the World Health Organisation is 100 litres.

[Gimel]

47. It is not per person

No one uses 350 liters per person each day. That is including agriculture and other industry. The Palestinians share in the Israeli economy and industry.

[Classical_Liberal]

32. They probably are going to charge for it.

and use it as another bludgeon on them. But you are right. Teh Desalienation plant should be for Israel and the Palestinians should be allowed to keep their own water.

[1monster]

5. Then, of course, Israel can cut off water supply to Palestine any time

they so choose.

Not my idea of a good idea.

[sandnsea]

8. Like Syria tried to do

In the Golan Heights. Which is the reason Israel can't let go of it. Israel has a right to exist.

"The Banias and the Dan- presently flow through sovereign Israeli territory. Syria formerly controlled the sources of the Banias, while the sources of the Dan were right on the border. These waters were the cause of continuous Syrian aggression.

This danger became a real threat in the early Sixties, when the Syrians made an effort to divert the three river beds to a new water carrier, to divert the Banias to the Golan Heights and from there to the Yarmuk basin.

Syria, with plenty of water, would have gained no civilian advantage from this plan, except for the political objective of destroying Israel without having to go to war or employing military means."

http://www.golan.org.il/water.html

[aquart]

10. Not to mention the convenience of using the Golan Heights

For shelling down into Israel. That was fun, too. (Created the teensiest bit of bitterness, though.)

What do you mean, "Israel has a right to exist"? While Palestinians suffer? Tsk.

Why does Israel have to provide for the Palestinians? Where are all their Arab supporters? Where is all their money?

[The Stranger]

13. Isn't Israel still holding on to millions in Palestinian tax revenues that

it has refused to tender? Or are you assuming that everyone has forgotten about that and everything else?

It is hard for them to provide for themselves when their property is destroyed by tanks, helicopters, missles, their homes and businesses destroyed or occupied and their people wantonly and unjustifiably killed.

Or maybe you weren't being serious.

[papau]

15. Arafats hidden billions drawfs the few million held for the PA by Israel.

Why is Tax collection not done by the PA in the first place?

[The Stranger]

16. Demonizing Arafat is a nice way to avoid looking at Sharon.

And it's not going to work on these boards. Now back to the issue at hand, if the Palestinians were to collect taxes, their tax collectors would be shot by the IDF.

[papau]

17. ???? Who favors Sharon on these boards???? - The question was water

more is better

[Classical_Liberal]

35. Because the PA doesn't goven the west bank

dah.

[The Stranger]

11. Israel's illegal occupation and settlement of the Golan Heights has

nothing absolutely whatsoever with its right to exist. Such a catastrophic leap in logic has served as justification of violations of international law that actually do threaten its right to exist.

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[The Magistrate]

23. Israel's Right To Exist, Mr. Mallard

Is neither lesser nor greater than the right of Arab Palestinians to a state. Why one exists today as a state and the other does not is no simple matter, and one that the view you present falls very far short of adequately describing.

The creation of Israel originated in a consensus of the international community. This was expressed by a resolution of the United Nations partitioning the Palestine Mandate in 1947 into an Arab Zone and a Jewish Zone. The Palestine Mandate existed by act of the former League of Nations in 1922, which was promulgated only on the understanding that a "Jewish National Home" would be created by the English administration on a portion of that territory. Imperfect as these organizations may have been, and may be, they were and are the sole organs of international law and consensus in existance in their times.

The partition on which Israel was based was widely supported, with both the United States and the Soviet Union voting for it, and with the Soviet Union providing vital military support, through its puppet government in Czechoslovakia, during the war which broke out in the wake of the partition vote. The Soviet bloc did not turn against it until the success of various Arab Nationalists in the former colonies of European states in the region offered a more favorable means of exerting influence there. Prior to the war in '67, it is hard to identify any pattern of widespread international opposition directed against Israel, although the Moslem countries were certainly hostile prior to that.

It is certainly true that Israel exists, and will go on existing, on the basis of military power, but that is the case with any state, and there are no exceptions to that statement on the face of the globe. The only difference is that Israel established itself thus more recently than many states. If establishment by violence means a state is illegitimate, there are no such entities that are legitimate. A thorough-going anarchist might well hew to that position, but it is hardly a practical guide to action in the world.

Your final statement can only be, Sir, an exercise in dead-pan sarcasm, for which you deserve a smattering of applause, if that is the case. You are surely aware of the tribal foundations of Arab society, and of most Islamic societies throughout Central Asia for that matter. This decentralized style of authority has been both curse and blessing to these peoples, rendering them easy conquests for a better organized foe, but more difficult to hold in conquest without shrewd manipulation of the system's internal rivalries by the conqueror, and rendering most difficult any widespread change in the traditional patterns of the culture.

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Classical_Liberal]

34. I find Israelis claims often turn out to be untrue but aside from

that if it were, Israel still wouldn't have a right to cut Palestinians off from it.

[aquart]

9. Explain how that would be possible, please.

But what nice fantasies you have about Jews.

[1monster]

21. Yes? According to my husband, I am Jewish because my maternal

great grandparents were Jewish.

Fantasies? Israeli tanks go in and destroy the homes of those who have family members who are suspected, suspected! of terrorist activities. Great way to win the hearts and minds of the Palestinians or even just an unesy coexistence with them. I don't blame Jews for that. I blame the Israeli government and those who support those kinds of repressive actions. (By the way, I believe that Sharon and his gang of thugs are as representative of the Jewish religion and the ethnic group as Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson are representative of all Christians.

If Israel builds the desalinization plant for the Palestinians and then pipe the water to the Palestinians, then I would assume that Israel would have control of both the plant and the pipeline. I could be wrong, but judging from the way the Israeli government treats Palestinians now, I doubt it.

Besides, if the current water supply that Israel is getting comes from Palestinian lands, then I happen to believe that Palenstinians should have first rights to the water.

Let Israel build its desalinization plant for itself.

[Gimel]

30. Water desalinization

Currently 4 desalinization plants are planned, maybe two under construction. Also, 2 water reclamation plants are to be built. An agreement to import water from Turkey has been formally signed and that will begin this year. Water problems do have solutions in the modern day.

Israel gets most of it's water from the Kinneret (Sea of Galilee) which is not under the West Bank. It is fed by the Jordan river, and run-off from the surrounding hills, which includes Israel, Golan Heights and Syria.


Map

[Gimel]

40. Reality- fantasies

If you want to know if you're Jewish, consult a rabbi.

I knew a woman who discovered that her mother was Jewish, but because she was raised in a Christian orphanage, and lived her entire life as a Christian, her daughter would have to undergo conversion to be recognized as Jewish by Jewish institutions.

Look at the facts. Some of the ground water (rain water) from the Palestinian areas drains into the Jordan river. It is only a small portion of the water supply. They can't have "first rights" because it is only a fraction of the total water supply.

Israel's water supply

[ElsewheresDaughter]

2. this is what it has all been about from the being......WATER

israel didn't realize back in 49 6that all there water was under the west bank OPPS

[aquart]

12. Obviously, they did. Or they wouldn't have signed the accord.

Never let bias make you forget logical sense.

You can construct a much better argument that wicked Israel knew all about the water and deliberately set out to steal it from the poor, ignorant Arabs who had no idea of the value of water in a desert.

Okay, maybe that doesn't work either.

[mike_c]

3. with Israel in control of the valves, no doubt....

Even if the plant and pipeline were under exclusive Palestinian control, the plan centralizes an entire population's access to water in an arid region, making it a trivial exercise for Isreal to choke off the flow whenever it wants. This is just another example of the Isrealis using the ghetto control approach to dealing with the Palestinian population.

[aquart]

6. So let the Saudis donate a desalinization plant

for the Palestinians to control.

Or let the Palestinians dig wells and tap into the aquifer and take it for themselves.

Poor helpless Palestinians. Will no one help them?

Who signed that Oslo accord anyway? Just Israel?

Get back to me.

[Vitruvius]

22. The Israelis won't even let the Palestinians maintain the wells they have,

let alone drill new ones. From the article: "..in the nearly 40 years that Israel has controlled the West Bank, Palestinians have been largely forbidden from drilling new wells or rehabilitating old ones."

It always helps to get the facts before giving gratuitous advice to the oppressed.

As for the Saudis -- how would you like it if somebody stole your car and told you that you could always beg some rich person to give you another one? (Not that the Saudis are even particularly friendly to the Palestinians.) Every thief has a rationalization, and saying that it's OK to steal because people can always go out & beg is despicable. And a common Israeli rationalization where the Palestinians are concerned.

[aquart]

7. So let the Saudis donate a desalinization plant

for the Palestinians to control.

Or let the Palestinians dig wells and tap into the aquifer and take it for themselves.

Poor helpless Palestinians. Will no one help them?

Who signed that Oslo accord anyway? Just Israel?

Get back to me.

[Gimel]

51. Donations

There has been enough spent on the Intifada to build several pools and water recycling systems. They should just try to pay attention to their people's needs. That alone would bring peace.

Donations have not been put to good use. Destructive violence is not a way to solve economic problems.

[DemBones DemBones]

19. The future is going to be ugly.

When we start fighting wars over water, life may no longer be worth living. It's depressing to contemplate.

[Voltaire99]

27. Great quote by Helder Camara

The liberation theologists are Christians I can not only tolerate, but applaud.

[Cassandra]

29. What do you mean "when"?

In South America and other places, they're already fighting over water.
http://www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=3&row=1

[struggle4progress]

26. kick

:kick:

[keithyboy]

28. I said this in 1999. It has been about water rights and access

You can see that by where the 'settelments' are located and how the territorial lines are always drawn by Israel. By the way, when you say 'settlement' think stolen land.

[Gimel]

39. Historical developments in water

While looking at the water supply from the Palestinian viewpoint, that Israel controls it, and they don't get enough, points to problems (all Israel's fault) and not to solutions, Israelis have been working to find solutions for most of the past century.

Drip irrigation was developed in Israel and has gained international recognition.

MFA - Water

One of the most important agrotechnological innovations is probably the invention in Israel of drip irrigation by Simcha Blass and his son (the father conceived the idea, the son developed the dripper).


Drip irrigation pipes
Drip irrigation has many advantages over other irrigation methods:

Water is discharged uniformly from every dripper fitted onto the lateral pipe. This is true even on moderately sloping terrain. Furthermore, the development of compensated drippers enables uniform irrigation on steeper slopes and the ability to extend laterals with drippers over greater distances.

Via the drippers, fertilizers can be supplied to the plant together with the water ('fertigation').

Water and fertilizers are delivered directly to the root system rather than to the total area of the field, thereby economizing on both water and fertilizers.

The quantity of water delivered can be optimized to fit different soil types, avoiding percolation of water beyond the root zone. Furthermore, sandy soils, which cannot be watered by furrows or by flooding, can be efficiently irrigated with drippers.

The emergence of weeds is minimized.

Between the planted rows the dry ground facilitates comfortable access in the field for workers and machines throughout the season.

Exploitation of poor quality water (saline water or effluents) is made possible because:

Drip irrigation, unlike sprinkler irrigation, makes it possible to utilize saline water. This is because direct contact between water and leaves is avoided, thus obviating burns.
Drip irrigation causes salts to be continuously washed away from the root system, avoiding salt accumulation in the immediate vicinity of the roots. This is important when irrigating salinized soils or irrigating with saline water.
Drip irrigation allows the use of minimally treated sewage water because the water is delivered directly to the ground, minimizing health risks.

Drippers with a given discharge of water (of the order of several liters per hour) can be installed at any spacing to accommodate the needs of any crop.


(continued)

The Current situation

In recent years, the water supply in Israel has reached a stage of critically fragile balance between supply and demand as a result of several factors:

A sequence of drought years, resulting in inadequate replenishment of water reservoirs (both surface and underground aquifers) in combination with over-pumping of the already dwindling water reserves.

Rapid increase in population due to immigration (from 4.8 million in 1990 to 6.3 million in 2000 - 31% increase in 10 years), leading to increased water consumption for domestic use.

Hesitation and lagging of policy-makers to allocate proper financial resources for much needed large-scale projects of reclamation and purification of urban sewage water and construction of plants for desalination of seawater.

More

[SandyUSA]

49. One picture is worth a thousand words...

Settler Pool

[newyorican]

50. better stick to the 1000 words...

as photos (making certain points) are not allowed in this forum amongst a long list of other items...

[SandyUSA]

53. Sorry about that...

I thought i saw many photos in these forums. Is the rule only for the Palestine/Israel forum? I will try to find where the rules are listed.

You were right. That long list of special rules for this forum are unbelievable. Goes to show how hot this topic is.

I will delete the pic next.

RESULT: I tried to edit the swimming pool message and delete the picture, but a message said the editing period was over. A moderator will have to get rid of my unintentional offense.

[number6]

54. yes

"Is the rule only for the Palestine/Israel forum? "

and I disagree with that rule :)