Muslims in U.S. Feel Targeted By Anti-Terror Business Policies

[Gimel]

(Althouth this article isn't directly about Israel-Palistine, the issues of racism and national security, i.e. anti-terror, are basic to understanding the situation in Israel. How can these concerns both be satisfied? I hope this thread will be allowed by the Mods for that reason.)

"How can you be an Iran specialist and not have the word 'Iran' on your résumé?" demanded Fassihian, 27, of Arlington, who immigrated to Virginia at age 3 and holds a master's degree in international studies from Johns Hopkins University. "I'm an American. I've lived in this country all my life . . . This is the first time I'm feeling discriminated against."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A29610-2003Jul8.html

[Violet_Crumble]

1. They are being singled out unfairly...

I feel the same way if it were here, the US, or Israel. I'm as opposed to any policies from companies who discriminate against people due to where they live or where they seek to work as I'm opposed to boycotts that single out individuals because of their nationality. The US has a very bad problem with racism towards the Arab-American community that needs to be addressed. And I believe the current US administration is fostering anti-Arab sentiment in the US. There are ways of protecting national security, especially when it comes to financial transactions, that don't involve singling out people based on their ethnicity...

Violet...

[Darranar]

2. Agreed...

There is a tendency for suspicion of Muslims even by fairminded people. The US administartion seems to be advocating that silently by ignoring it in law, though they certainly condemn it.

[The Stranger]

4. Disagreed.

There is a tendency for suspicion of Muslims even by fairminded people.

"Fair-minded people" and bigoted racists are two different things. Let there be no confusion about it.

[Darranar]

5. Agreed...

My point was that even many people who try to be fair-minded and respect people on what they do and not on who they are are effected by the environment of suspicion of Muslims.

[Gimel]

6. Suspicion

One reason this was posted was to relate to the situation In Israel, which is a much smaller land area and population than the US, with a greater percentage of Moslem citizens, and a much higher frequency of attacks. That produces a pressure cooker. Everyone gets searched, their bags searched and a detection instrument waved over their persons several times a day, if they do any shopping or stop in at a bank or post office on the way home.

In the past three years, this vigilance has increased significantly. Buses have always been checked for unsecured bags or objects. Anyone looking slightly different might be approached or selected to be searched more thoroughly. El Al has done this throughout it's operating history. My parent flew on El Al 11 years ago, and were quite put out by the amount of questioning they had to go through. Anyone who is a first time tourist is questioned regarding the purpose of their visit.

Anyone who looks or acts at all unusual will be scrutinized. That's the procedure. An Arab traveling on a one-way ticket to Israel, with no prior contacts would of course be singled out, and probably followed, if even allowed to travel on El Al.

Racism or reasonable caution?

[Noon_Blue_Apples]

7. I don't see the point you are trying to make

You state your comparison (US and Israel)is not the same so I do not see how your experience relates to the US and Muslims?

"Anyone who looks or acts at all unusual will be scrutinized."

I didn't know being an American Muslim was unusual?

"Racism or reasonable caution?"

Regarding Israeli flights it is reasonable caution (if that is the point you wanted to reinforce), targeting Muslims in the US is racism. Much as japanese internment camps were 'reasonable caution'.

Any attempt to state otherwise is partisan bigotry.

Bill

[Gimel]

8. The point of...

comparison. There have been accusations of racism on this forum because, I assume, articles on the Internet by Israeli writers, who explore the issue. It is an on-going discussion, and that is positive for the continuous self-reflection on the issue. The Palestinian could be a security threat, although not all Arabs are Palestinians, and not all Arabs from the administered territories are terrorists.

It is easy to sit back on island "x" and cast judgments about land "y". It is easy to send hate messages on those assumptions.

This daily interaction with Arabs, not only Israeli Arabs, but those with work permits from the territories who enter daily for work, in a time of conflict and uncertainty, has an effect on people.

For example: I was at my neighbors one day when a man came to the door looking for yard work. She told him she was not interested. Then, after he left, she commented that she wouldn't hire an Arab. I didn't see him, but I asked how she knew he was an Arab. She could tell, not from his accent, but a general appearance.

The average Israeli may now be more cautious about hiring Arab workers.

Israeli financial institutions have handled Palestinian accounts for decades. Some of these accounts have been opened for investigation.

Israelis can be fined for hiring Palestinian workers who, for instance, don't have a work permit. To hire an Israeli Arab might have been more common in times of peace, but the Intifada has soured that relationship.

I don't think it is racist to have this kind of resentment towards a community which has been supportive of terrorists who have inflicted considerable harm on the interests of your nation.

targeting Muslims in the US is racism. Is targeting what you intend to say, or profiling? Targeting implies to me the intentional selection for selective treatment.

[Noon_Blue_Apples]

9. My God

Have you not learned anything from your own history?

What, Germans were crazy but in this case you are right?

You are marching down the same garden path.

please don't bother 'clarifying' more for my benefit.

By the way

"I don't think it is racist to have this kind of resentment towards a community which has been supportive of terrorists who have inflicted considerable harm on the interests of your nation"

Yes, it is. You speak of profiling then use the word resentment. It is racism. Like southern whites resented blacks, or Americans and Canadians 'resented' Japanese north americans.

It is racism.

Enjoy your ethnically pure state while it lasts.

And enjoy the resentment.


Bill

[Gimel]

10. Are you in the same

world as I?

Enjoy your ethnically pure state while it lasts.

This statement is not only false, it helps nothing but to promote anger and unfounded attacks against Israel. Multi-ethnicity is the rality in modern-day Israel. The Jewish people have Ethiopeans as well as Europeans and Indians among the population. All Jews from every corner of the world are migrating to Israel.

{i]Regarding Israeli flights it is reasonable caution (if that is the point you wanted to reinforce), targeting Muslims in the US is racism. Much as japanese internment camps were 'reasonable caution'.

I think Israel falls into the 'reasonable caution' category if you even accept your own statement.

[Violet_Crumble]

11. Reasonable caution...

Do you think that the internment of Japanese-Americans during WWII was right and a case of 'reasonable caution'?

Violet...

[Gimel]

12. No, I am opposed

to this form of treatment. It was discriminatory and unfair. It was over-reacting, and no threat existed from this population.

I can't say the same for the Arab population in Israel today. Yet, all efforts are being made to reduce unfair descrimination towards them.

[Violet_Crumble]

13. Good...

The internment of Japanese-American citizens was one of those things that people at the time didn't blink twice at, and was as acceptable in those days as wholesale bombing of cities, but we're all a bit more enlightened in this day and age and if and when those sort of things are done, we tend to get really uneasy...

I think at the time there would have been some arguments raised as to why there was a threat posed to US national interests by Japanese-Americans, just as there's arguments raised today that there's a threat raised in Israel by Arab-Israelis. Thank goodness we're not seeing them interned or anything like that, but I think that while people view them as a threat, even though Arab-Israelis are every bit as much an Israeli as you, there's going to be discrimination against them, no matter what official efforts are made to reduce that discrimination...


Violet...

[Gimel]

14. Exactly...

People feel discriminated against for a variety of reasons. It happens, in fact to virtually everyone at some time or another.

there's going to be discrimination against them, no matter what official efforts are made to reduce that discrimination...

There are legitimate reasons to be wary of Arabs or Palestinians in Israel. Not everyone has armed guards at their doors. If there was peace, it would be a different situation. Then you could strive to eliminate discrimination, where it exists, and educate people against it.

[The Stranger]

16. You seem to have it backwards.

If there was peace, it would be a different situation.

The checkpoints, identification cards, assassinations, destruction of homes, crops and property, shooting of children -- these defeat the peace and preclude "a different situation."

In essence, your position justifies not only generalizations and racism (suspicion based on an individual's race, it ensures endless war.

[Gimel]

17. Nationalism perhaps

The charges of racism are unjustified. Arabs and Israelis may be of different national backgrounds and different religions, but they are both of semitic origin.

The measures are defensive, and were undertaken as a result of the attacks on Israeli civilians inside of Israel. Nothing could be clearer.

In fact, much affection does exist between the two peoples, if the radical elements hadn't polarized the situation, a social justice could be realized in Israel.

[Violet_Crumble]

19. The charges of racism ARE justified...

Racism isn't just about discrimination against racial groups, but includes discrimination towards ethnic groups...

Those who supported the internment of Japanese-Americans during WWII also claimed those measures were defensive and were undertaken as a result of the attacks on the US. On a local level, those who support the mandatory detention of asylum seekers also claim those measures are defensive and an anti-terrorism measure. They were wrong then and wrong now. Using the excuse of fighting against terrorism by disciminating against an entire group of people is never right...

If the radical groups on both sides are silenced, there's a much better chance of social justice in Israel. And unfortunately the Israeli govt has radicals and racists in its midst and while that's the case, I can't see things improving too quickly...

Violet...

[Gimel]

20. A greater balance

The Israeli government has a wide range of viewpoints (I assume you are speaking of the government as a whole). That allows for the balancing of extremes. While Yossi Sarid and the Mertz party may be out of the coalition for now, the Shinui left is now the third largest party after Likud and Labor.

Your statement:"If the radical groups on both sides are silenced, there's a much better chance of social justice in Israel."

Is this addressing any particular aspect of "social justice" in Israel?

Are you referring to political justice for the Arab minority? This minority has 10 MKs in the current Knesset. That is proportionate to the 17% of the population that is Arab.

Israeli Arabs have a right to education. There is a large representation of Arab men and women enrolled in Universities in Israel. The human rights situation in Israel for all citizens is much better than that in the surrounding Arab nations, or in the PA administered territories.

The PA does not prohibit by law the use of torture or force against detainees, and PA security forces reportedly regularly employ torture and abuse against Palestinian detainees. Such abuse generally takes place after arrest and during interrogation, and reportedly is widespread. In 1995 the Gaza civil police commander issued to police officers in the West Bank and Gaza a directive forbidding torture during interrogation, and directing the security forces to observe the rights of all detainees; however, the directive does not have the force of law, and Palestinian security officers have not been issued formal guidelines regarding the proper conduct of interrogations. The PA lacks adequate equipment to collect and use evidence, and convictions are based largely on confessions.

PA security officials torture and abuse prisoners by threatening, hooding, beating, and tying detainees in painful positions, forcing them to stand for long periods of time, depriving them of sleep and food, and burning detainees with cigarettes and hot instruments. Palestinians also alleged that PA authorities have shaken them violently while in PA custody. International human rights groups have documented widespread arbitrary and abusive conduct by the PA. The organizations state that the use of torture is widespread and not restricted to those persons detained on security charges. Human rights groups state that Palestinians who are suspected of belonging to radical Islamic groups are more likely to be treated poorly, as are the large numbers of alleged collaborators with Israel who have been arrested since the start of the Intifada. Observers have noted that documentation of abuses is very limited, due partly to the hesitancy of alleged victims to file or make public claims of torture and abuse against the PA authorities.
http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/anti-semitism/ot_report01.html

A violation of the laws against abuse are much more likely to be investigated and brought to trial than those in the PA or the surrounding Arab countries.

[The Stranger]

15. The fact that you pose this question concerns me greatly.

Racism or reasonable caution?

And I don't think that I am alone. Those with any memory or sense of history recall when Jews were the subjects of "reasonable caution."

[The Stranger]

3. Don't sound so surprised by it. It is nothing but good ol' fashioned

American racism, like Grandma and apple pie. The crosshairs may have switched, but the Other is still darker-skinned, non-European, non-Aryan, different, uncivilized, dangerous.

The Arch-Bigots John Ashcroft, who is on record as being bigoted against Muslims and others who do not share his racist, ethnocentric, anti-Christian, Fundamentalist agenda, and George W. Bush, are not only complicit in this racism, they actively and gladly -- though discreetly -- exacerbate and foment it.

[Gimel]

18. american standards

Okay, since you raise this as a standard. The US, with it's large and increasingly diverse population, can offer some useful role models, right? Racism is "old fashioned" in America? Not by a long shot. Latinos, as an ethnic group, like Jews, have a variety of skin color and tone. Look at this report:

<snip>

Latinos who described themselves as white on the 2000 Census had the highest incomes and lowest rates of unemployment and poverty, and they tended to live near communities of non-Latino whites, said the report, which analyzed Census figures nationwide. Nearly 50 percent of Latinos who filed a Census report said they were white, according to the center's report.

The 2.7 percent of Latinos who described themselves as black, most of them from the Caribbean, had lower incomes and higher rates of poverty than the other groups -- despite having a higher level of education.

<snip>

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