Palestinians blaming selves for lawlessness

[Herschel]

cut

Law and order in Palestinian cities has all but disappeared during 41 months of conflict and the reoccupation of the West Bank and Gaza Strip by Israeli forces. In many places, Palestinian police and security forces have been fragmented or disappeared altogether. The power vacuum has been filled by armed and anonymous Palestinians who are enforcing their own rules.

The lawlessness has exposed the internal divisions of Palestinian society and government. Pitted against one another are rival security agencies, militant splinter groups and some members of powerful families in the cities. And as the disorder spreads, Palestinian intellectuals and politicians are increasingly looking past Israel as the usual scapegoat and admitting they share a part of the blame.

Not everyone has been as fortunate to escape alive as the employees at Al-Quds Educational Television. Shortly after midnight Tuesday, unknown gunmen shot dead Khalil al-Zabin, an adviser to Yasser Arafat and a veteran journalist, as he left his office in Gaza City's Sabra neighborhood.

The brazen attack jolted Palestinians and unleashed a torrent of self-criticism.

"The Palestinian Authority, the security services and the Palestinian factions are all responsible," Palestinian Prime Minister Ahmed Qureia told Al-Jazeera TV.

Minutes before the funeral of al-Zabin, his daughter, Nour, said: "Did my father fight 40 years for the Palestinian cause to be killed by Palestinians? These are cowards."

cut

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/content/auto/epaper/editions/today/news_04a43a3f4388f05d00fd.html


Dare we believe our eyes? "Palestinians blaming selves for lawlessness"! While burying her father, this daughter has recognized the responsibility for his death lies with Palestinains. More logical thought, and less blind rage, will improve the lot of these people.

[Devils Advocate NZ]

1. Why do you think Israel continually destroys Palestinian organisation?

The fact is, Israel NEEDS "lawlessness" amongst Palestinians. If they ever stop fighting amongst each other, they will focus ALL their attention on Israel and the IDF.

Now you know why the IDF targets Palestinian policemen.

[Herschel]

2. Speculation on your part

I would also suggest any alliance between Palestinian organizations, imcluding those claiming to be lawful, would be helpless against the cunning of the IDF.

[Herschel]

3. I would also hope

I see comments from my fellow progressives often supporting Palestinians. This should provide you hope they are progressing.

[drewb]

4. I've ofthen thought of the IDF as "cunning"...

That's why I'm afraid to make business deals with them...


They are either too "cunning" or maybe I am too stupid...


Probably a combination of the two?

:loveya:

[Herschel]

5. Perhaps

-

[Gimel]

16. The IDF

should not engage in business deals. Their cunning is to follow procedure.

[Evil_Dewers]

21. Their (IDF) cunning is to follow procedure.

Like running over unarmed America peace activists with US made bulldozers.

Them (sic) Refusniks be (sic) traitors. LMAO!

[Devils Advocate NZ]

6. Not really. Even you probably think the same, though you won't admit it...

As for the cunning of the IDF, isn't that what I just said? That the IDF prevents the Palestinians from unifying against a common enemy by preventing any form of organisation fram taking hold? Is that not cunning? Divide and conquer, and all that?

The fact is, the IDF is wholly and solely responsible for the lawlessness. They prevent any form of Palestinian organisation from taking hold, and they refuse to enforce the laws themselves, which in itself is a breach of the Geneva Convention - The IDF as occupying force has sole responsibility for protecting Palestinians from each other and from IDF troops and Israeli settlers, which we all know they don't.

The fact that many Palestinians blame each other for in-fighting, rather than pointing the finger at the IDF, does not change this simple fact: the IDF is the "law" and thus they are to blame for "lawlessness".

[Herschel]

7. The Palestinian Authority

has had "security" forces. These were not used effectively. Israel will strike her enemies, even when disguised as "security". The responsibility for the destruction of the "security" lies with those using it for wrongful purposes.

So we see Palestinians are responsible for misusing their priviledge of a security force. Responsibility for the resulting lawlessness lies with them and the criminals themselves. So long as Palestinians and their supporters look to blame Israel for their misery, this misery will continue.

[Darranar]

8. So....

If Israel destroyed the PA security forces, how is the PA supposed to combat terrorism and anarchy?

Like it or not, the PA is at the moment basically powerless. The creation of this situation was an idiotic move by Israel, whatever one's opinion on the justification for their actions.

[Herschel]

11. Once again

the so called security forces were involved in lawlessness. Their destruction is their own responsibility. It is the Palestinians left with chaos.

[Darranar]

12. And what was accomplished by destroying them?

Yet more lawlessness, and this time it will stay the same, whether or not the PA suddenly changes into a lawful and human rights-respecting organization truly dedicated to peace and security.

Israel destroyed them. It is Israel's responsibility to replace them.

It is indeed the Palestinians who are mostly suffering from this.

[Devils Advocate NZ]

13. Priviledge? Security is a priviledge?

Not even close - it is a RIGHT.

As for the use of Palestinian security forces, could you perhaps tell me which terrorist attacks were carried out by PA security forces? By the way, "terrorist" does NOT mean attacks against the IDF.

Perhaps you can also tell me why ALL Palestinians and the PA are to blame for the acts of terrorism carried out by individual Palestinians, but ALL Israelis, the IDF, and the Israeli government are not to blame for the acts of terrorism carried out by individual Israelis?

Why the double standard?

[drdon326]

14. uhhh....you may want to sit down for this...

"could you perhaps tell me which terrorist attacks were carried out by PA security forces?"

At least 10 dead in Jerusalem terror attack

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/01/29/jerusalem.blast/

Palestinian sources: Police officer set off blast
Friday, January 30, 2004 Posted: 12:15 AM EST (0515 GMT)


JERUSALEM (CNN) -- At least 10 people were killed on Thursday when a Palestinian policeman got on a passenger bus in Jerusalem and set off a blast as the vehicle neared the Israeli prime minister's home, according to Israeli officials and Palestinian sources.

[drdon326]

15. BTW...

Nice picture of the "peace officer":

http://www.usefulwork.com/shark/psychodeathalbum.html

[Devils Advocate NZ]

17. So A policeman commits a crime...

and therefore the entire police force is to blame?

Can we expect you to hold the IDF to the same standards?

On Monday, Jan. 12, the military court of the Southern Command issued an indictment against the soldier suspected in the shooting in which Hurndall was injured. The soldier is charged on six counts: aggravated bodily assault, two counts of obstruction of justice, one count of submitting false information, enticement to submit false information and un-becoming conduct.

Following the death of Hurndall, the charges against the soldier will be altered.
http://www.idf.il/english/announcements/2004/january/14z.stm

So does this case above justify the condemnation and destruction of the IDF? Or are only Palestinians collectively responsible for the acts of individuals?

[drdon326]

18. This is UNBELIEVEABLE...

Did I say that?? huh???

You asked a question and I 'blastered' it out of the water.

And to answer your question...No, I don't condemn the entire
PA police force....The other day there was a PA policeman who attempted to stop a 3 car terrorist attack at the main Gaza crossing and I salute him for that.

.....And the next time a certain poster calls the IDF
"terrorists", I *100 %* expect you to jump right in and condemn
those outrageous accusations.Can I expect that?? huh??
I'm *GOING* to hold my breath waiting for that.

I await with abated breath for you reply.

[Devils Advocate NZ]

19. What an OUTRAGE!

Did I say that?? huh???

My question was:

"could you perhaps tell me which terrorist attacks were carried out by PA security forces?"

NOT

"could you perhaps tell me which terrorist attacks were carried out by a member of PA security forces?"

I know the difference is subtle, but there IS a difference - the latter merely talks about individuals acting on their own volition, and the former refers to an organisation acting in coordination.

So when you answered the former question, I assumed you were referring to the whole organisation, especially considering that the very next thing I wrote was another question asking why the whole organisation is blamed (and attacked by the IDF) for the acts of individuals.

You FAILED to even mention this question, let alone try to answer it. Why is that?

Here is another question for you - why were the IDF attacking Palestinian security forces BEFORE any individual members had participated in terrorist attacks?

And to answer your question...No, I don't condemn the entire
PA police force....The other day there was a PA policeman who attempted to stop a 3 car terrorist attack at the main Gaza crossing and I salute him for that.

That's good. So why did you not set Herschel straight when he said:

the so called security forces were involved in lawlessness. Their destruction is their own responsibility.

He blames the entire security force for the acts of individuals, claiming that gives the IDF the right to destroy them, yet as you point out the Palestinian security forces have done their best to prevent terrorism even while being targeted by both the terrorists AND the IDF.

Here is another question for you: If the IDF, the most powerful military in the Middle East, and one of the most powerful in the world, is unable to prevent terrorism, how are the Palestinian security forces, one of the weakest police/security forces in the world, supposed to prevent terrorism, especially if they keep getting attacked by the IDF?

.....And the next time a certain poster calls the IDF
"terrorists", I *100 %* expect you to jump right in and condemn
those outrageous accusations.Can I expect that?? huh??
I'm *GOING* to hold my breath waiting for that.

There go those double standards again! You do not defend the PA security forces from the accusations made by Herschel (in fact you attempt to reinforce him in this argument), yet you expect me to defend the IDF?

If I ever see someone call the IDF as an organisation "terrorist" I will indeed set that person straight. The IDF are war criminals, but not terrorists. After all they are a uniformed military and as such can not be labeled terrorists by definition.

[Evil_Dewers]

22. Stop before I get aroused.

[Evil_Dewers]

20. Well, most terrorist organizations are cunning.

[drdon326]

9. Interesting....

"The Palestinian Authority, the security services and the Palestinian factions are all responsible," Palestinian Prime Minister Ahmed Qureia told Al-Jazeera TV."

refreshing self introspection....one can only hope this will
continue....the palestinian people deserve better.

[Fight_n_back]

10. They should blame what we blame

Clinton's Penis

[Evil_Dewers]

23. LOL

That's the Rosetta stone of the GOP.