Damage Bill from Israeli Raid Over $1mln - Mayor

[Herschel]

The mayor of a Palestinian town estimated on Saturday that the damage bill from an Israeli army demolition of some 120 Palestinian-owned shops on the Gaza-Israel boundary would come to more than $1 million.
Two army bulldozers backed by four tanks on Friday plowed through the cluster of buildings which the Israeli army said concealed a 60-meter (180 foot)-long tunnel used by Palestinian militants.

The stores leading up to Erez, a heavily fortified Israeli industrial zone on the Gaza-Israel border, sold mainly clothing, electronics and food and drink to Palestinian workers who made their way to their jobs in Israel through the crossing.

"We need urgent help for these people. They did not do anything," said the mayor of Beit Hanoun town, Ibrahim Hamid, adding the damage would run to more than $1 million.

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http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=worldNews&storyID=4460427

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Perhaps Arafat could spare a million? This estimate equates to under $10,000 per shop. This may seem conservative, yet is probably over estimated when considering the quality of typical Palestinian shops.

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Herschel]

3. A simple fact

Many Palestinian shops hold small value. This estimate bears this out.

[HawkerHurricane]

2. I guess they couldn't do anything simple,

like pouring concrete into the tunnels until they were full.

Congratulations, you've just pissed off a bunch more people, a percentage of which will now donate to people who will blow themselves up to get back at you. Nice going.

[number6]

4. your just a bleeding heart Liberal.. NOT

:(

[Herschel]

8. How dare you

I am a progressive.

[dudeness]

5. a quaint aussie term that sums up some here in this place

WANKER

[Violet_Crumble]

7. I think it might be an old English term...

...that we've taken close to our hearts due to it's colourful flavour. I encountered a Pom online just recently who used that term to describe someone...


Violet...

[Herschel]

9. I would thank you

to not resort to veiled insults.

[lefty_mcduff]

6. Well, as it is generally the goons that cause the damage

are held responsible, perhaps your IDF buddies could pony up with a few bucks. Maybe even throw in a few bob from yesterday's bank robbery. Perhaps a few bucks from the value of the land that they've stolen.

To boot, your dismissive comment about the value of Palestinian property borders on disgusting. Fuck it. It is digusting...

[Herschel]

10. The shops are often quaint

One may be led to believe these 120 shops held more value than they did. They are not to be confused with a Wal-Mart.

[lefty_mcduff]

11. Well, considering my opinion of Wal-Mart

That's a very good thing.
But, perhaps you're right.
Let those responsible for the damage pay them $8,000 each for their misfortune. Waddya say?

[packerssuck]

12. Have Arafat pay them. Just get the money from his wife in France.

[lefty_mcduff]

15. Or Sharon from his son

and his, ahm, land deals. (I guess you're now telling me that Arafat is the only corrupt politician in the world)

Besides, Arafat didn;t cause the damage. The IDF did.
So, why are you expecting Arafat to pickup the IDF tab?

[Herschel]

13. I doubt

the terrorists are willing to do so.

[HawkerHurricane]

14. Wait a second...

Why are you calling Isreali's terrorists? That's not like you.

[Herschel]

16. You misunderstand

The terrorists hold responsibility for what Israel is forced to do.

[Darranar]

17. Israel is not "forced" to do anything...

the Palestinian terrorists hold no more responsibility for Israeli terrorism such as this than Israeli terrorists hold for Palestinian terrorism.

[Herschel]

18. You hamper serious discussion

when referring to Israel's actions as terrorist. One side targets innocents, the other brings justice on those that deliberately kill innocents. You know the difference.

[Darranar]

20. In this case, Israel deliberately targeted innocents...

by destroying the shops. There was no need to do so. It was, very simply, collective punishment, and it was no more legitimate than the collective punishment inflicted by Palestinian terrorists through suicide bombings.

[Herschel]

24. We will disagree

This was clearly an operation to hinder supply lines to terrorists. The damage to the shops is incidental, not the objective.

[Darranar]

25. Destroying the tunnel and razing the shops...

are separate matters. One does not require the other.

Why couldn't Israel destroy the tunnel and leave the shops alone?

[Herschel]

33. I do not claim to be an expert

I would defer to others on why moving the shops was necessary.

[HawkerHurricane]

21. Oh, PuLease.

What's the difference between a Palastinian blowing up a random group of people and a Isreali blowing up ONE criminal and a random group of people? Hell, you could call it even: The Palastinian blew himself up, thereby eliminating one criminal; which seems to be what Isreal does also: blow up one criminal and a bunch of innocent bystanders.

They're all barbarians.

[Herschel]

34. The difference

is Israel seeks to kill criminals while minimizing collateral damage. Terrorists seek to maximize civilian deaths.

[Darranar]

36. Razing 120 shops isn't my idea of "minimizing collateral damage."

[Herschel]

37. Do not confuse

the destruction of property with murder.

[HawkerHurricane]

19. Ah, I see...

"If you commit one more atrocity against me, I will be forced to destroy the property of those you claim to support, thereby teaching you a lesson."
"For destroying my property, I will join those who commit atrocities against you."
"For joining those who commit atrocities against me, I will attack yet another person, not directly involved, to punish you for your crimes which you have not yet commited.."

Couldn't they have just taken some concrete and poured it down the tunnels, or perhaps flooded them with water, or something that wouldn't have destroyed the shops of people who weren't involved?

[Herschel]

22. There is no moral equivalency

between the acts of terrorists and Israel defending herself. I suspect this method is more thourough and safer than your proposal, though uncomfortable for the shop owners. We can be grateful for the power of the tanks and bulldozers.

[Darranar]

23. How is it more thorough and safer?

What exactly did destroying the shops accomplish?

Israel is not defending itself; Israel is deliberately brutalizing the Palestinians in this case. There is no justification for collective punishment at this scale.

[lefty_mcduff]

26. 'uncomfortable' for the shop owners?

That's quite an understatement. It never ceases to amaze me thay neither side is willing to acknowledge the others suffering.

Moral equivalancy is a bullshit Orwellian propagandist's term designed to excuse IDF goons when they kill innocents, either through overzealous military action, mistakes, or murder.

Pay the poor fuckers the $$$ to fix up their shops and lets be done with it. Waddya say?

[HawkerHurricane]

28. Hmmm...

Destroy the tunnels, which is needed for security...

Apologize to the shop owners for the inconvenience...

Pay them for the damages caused (while mentioning how the terrorists would never do that)...

And heck, buy them lunch when you apologize and hand them the check (while reminding them about the criminals who started this in the first place)...

Might work. Gets rid of the tunnels, soothes the injured feelings, takes the moral high ground...

Nah, screw them. They're 'only' Palastinians. :eyes:

[HawkerHurricane]

27. Of course, Isreal is justified

In destroying the property of people uninvolved except for the crime of having a tunnel that MIGHT be used for terrorism under thier shops.

Just as Bush was justified in invading Iraq because Saddam MIGHT have weapons of mass destruction that he MIGHT give to terrorists who MIGHT then use them on us...

Barbarians provoking the other barbarians.

Immoral acts that will lead to other immoral acts. Crimes don't justify crimes.

[packerssuck]

29. Easy for you to say when you're sitting in your comfortable home.

Try riding a bus to work, not knowing if you're gonna come home alive.

[HawkerHurricane]

30. Yeah, I'd be much safer on the bus...

If I went and pissed off a bunch of people in the name of improving my security. After all, we all know that people angry about what happened to their shop/house/cousin don't do insane things like blowing up buses.

Last I heard, the murder rate in large US cities is higher than the death by terrorism rate in Isreal. But I could be wrong.

[lefty_mcduff]

31. And this has exactly what to do

the IDF destroying 120 Palestinian shops in a typical brutish, overzealous raid?

[Forkboy]

32. It's the excuse to do anything

no matter how bad Israel acts they can always say "Well,at least we're not as bad as THEY are."

[Herschel]

35. For greater clarity

remember the distinction between fighting terror and bringing it. The goodness of Israel is your guidepost.

[HawkerHurricane]

38. Just as the goodness of the United States

Justifies everything our government does, right?

Look, saying 'the other guy is worse' is no excuse, whether you're trying to get out of a speeding ticket or excusing your actions vs terrorists.