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drdon326 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 11:50 AM
Original message
Life Among the Bombs
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/02/24/opinion/24OREN.html

The bombing of the No. 14 bus here on Sunday began like many others: first the boom, then the sirens and finally the phone calls. This time the calls were particularly harrowing because our children and many of their friends regularly ride that line. We soon heard that two of their classmates were killed by the blast and eight others wounded. After the surge of rage, helplessness and sorrow, the next stage quickly followed. We returned to our routines.

Israelis are proud of their ability to carry on in the face of terrorism. The determination with which buses keep running and cafes serve brunch only minutes after an attack has been widely lauded, even by Israel's critics. Over the past three years, since the Palestinian bombings began, Israelis have had hundreds of opportunities to perfect that skill. Whereas once the explosion of a bus or a restaurant would send the country into paroxysms of sadness and rage, with mournful music pouring out of the radio and politicians vowing revenge, today even the bloodiest atrocities recede from memory in a matter of days, if not hours. The government now issues some indeterminate warning. Our radios keep playing U2.

Israel's resilience seems to suggest that terror, like conventional military power, has its limits. If suicide bombers stop terrorizing their targets, then, by definition, suicide bombings no longer constitute terrorism. This is an important lesson for the United States and other nations grappling with Al Qaeda and its offshoots. By steeling itself to pain and horror, a society can deprive its enemies of their most potent weapon — fear — and help ensure its security and, ultimately, its survival.

Yet what if Israelis have not grown inured to terrorism but have rather become numbed by it? What if, instead of showing resolve, they have merely lapsed into a state of shock so deep that assaults on their national existence cannot stir them? The lesson, then, would be much different: subjected to prolonged and relentless terrorism, even the most robust society is in danger of crumbling.

Israel's goal must be to maintain a balance between steadfastness and indifference. True, we have not allowed terror to dominate our lives, to drive us either indoors or to abandon our homes — to determine who we are. We have been striking back to the degree that is politically and morally permissible, erecting barriers to hinder terrorists even as we work to eliminate the conditions that create them. At the same time, however, we must never lose sight of the suffering that terrorism causes, the reality of dismembered bodies, the anguish of families bereaved.



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RFK MLK PW Donating Member (59 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 01:37 PM
Response to Original message
1. What if? What if?
I don't know how the Israelis manage, but I have faith that they will and that they are not numbed. We can take lessons from the Israelis, but tell me:

How do they fight an enemy who deliberately targets innocent people? Without becoming like them? Without using their methods? How do they fight an enemy supported by 57 Islamic states who do not consider a suicide bomber exploding among elderly worshippers at a Seder to be an act of terror? How do they fight an enemy that worships death? A culture that worships suicide bombers?

One must fight Hamas and Islamic Jihad the same way one would have fought the SS and the Nazis and the Stalinists who massacred 10000 Polish officers at Katyn: Target the guilty and never target the innocent per se. You try to preserve your humanity, but not at the expense of being annihilated.
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thebigidea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. hmmm
"One must fight Hamas and Islamic Jihad the same way one would have fought the SS and the Nazis and the Stalinists who massacred 10000 Polish officers at Katyn: Target the guilty and never target the innocent per se. You try to preserve your humanity, but not at the expense of being annihilated."

Yeah, never target the innocent - make things nice and precise, like Dresden.
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RFK MLK PW Donating Member (59 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Now you all are blaming Israel for Dresden?
Why am I not surprised?
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. That's not even close to what he said
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RFK MLK PW Donating Member (59 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. The subtle comparison was in fact made.
eom
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. no it wasn't
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RFK MLK PW Donating Member (59 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Yes, it was.
Read the post again.
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. You read it again
there's no implication that israel was behind Dresden.
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RFK MLK PW Donating Member (59 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. It was the nuance in the comparison.
nuance: a subtle difference in meaning or opinion or attitude; "without understanding the finer nuances you can't enjoy the humor"; "don't argue about shades of meaning"
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. You're still wrong
once again,nowhere was Israel blamed for Dresden in that post,as you accused the poster of doing.
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RFK MLK PW Donating Member (59 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. You're still wrong.
Try to understand subtlety; nuance and read a bit. It's good for you.
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. I understand it perfectly
Nowhere in that post were the Jews blamed for Dresden.
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RFK MLK PW Donating Member (59 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. You don't understand.
Look at your picture. One can see how primitive you are - LOL.

Okay, let's agree to disagree. Truce!
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. I understand
that when repeatedly proven to be wrong you resort to insults.

No truce.
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RFK MLK PW Donating Member (59 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. That was not meant as an insult.
It was meant as a joke to lighten this up.

We don't see things the same way; it doesn't mean we have to be mean or deliberately twist a lighthearted poke at your avatar as an insult.

Come on.
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_Jumper_ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #1
16. 57 Muslim states back Hamas and Islamic Jihad?
Really? What support do they give them?

How does Israel fight them? By using the weapons it has from the world's lone superpower--and by unleashing overwhelming force against terrorists without any regard for foreign opinion.
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RFK MLK PW Donating Member (59 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. the 57 are not all in the ME
"without any regard for foreign opinion"

interesting; no, I wouldn't have any regard for foreign opinion either if it was overwhelmingly wanting me to disappear

thanks for your post :puke:
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_Jumper_ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Sorry, I need to proofread LOL
Edited on Wed Feb-25-04 06:23 PM by _Jumper_
What I meant is how Israel SHOULD fight them that way but I used the word "does" which is unclear. It does not do so and that is why they haven't solved the problem. I am as pro-Israel as anyone when it comes to fighting terrorism. There is nothing on Earth I hate more than radical Islamist terrorists. NOTHING.

I know that. What support do they give? Verbal support or more? I am not an expert on this issue so I ask earnestly.
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