Palestinian worker dies in crush at Erez crossing

[Herschel]

A Palestinian man died and 10 were treated for breathing difficulties Monday after thousands of workers crossing into Israel pushed to get through a the Erez Crossing in the in the north of the Gaza Strip, hospital officials said.

cut

The army said it helped evacuate Sheikh from the area. However, it said the incident occurred on the Palestinian side of the border, and had nothing to do with Israel.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1076904427915&p=1008596981749

Israel must tighten security. Unruly behavior in Palestinian territory causes a man distress. The IDF attempts to assist him. Yet, will some blame Israel? I think you know the answer.

[mobuto]

1. Unruly behavior?

Herschel, this was a stampede not a sign of character flaw. If anything the lack of redudant checkpoints is to blame, since you had too many people going through too small a checkpoint. Increase the size and you reduce the problem.

[Herschel]

2. It would seem my suspicions were correct

The first response indeed blames little Israel. If you are looking for blame, see the January 14 homicide bombing referenced. It was for this reason these people were processed in such a manner.

[mobuto]

3. I'm not blaming Israel

I'm expressing incredulity that you'd blame anyone for this. Clearly the suicide bombers have made the security necessary. But if you're looking for clear policy changes that could make a repeat of this incident less likely, then yes, of course the onus is on the Israelis. If your interest is in looking for a solution, rather than falling into the endless cycle of blame, Israel could increase the number of redudant check points.

That would reduce the numbers of Palestinians at any one check point. Israel would be able to scrutinize each passerby more closely while at the same time reduce the risk of another stampede.

[Muddleoftheroad]

4. Not at all

The policy changes that need to occur are on the Palestinian side. Frankly, Israel should make the crossings simple by eliminating any that enter Israel until such time as the Palestinians shut down terror.

[mobuto]

5. That's happened before and it may happen again

but it would mean great hardship for both peoples, who like it or not (they don't), depend on one another.

[Muddleoftheroad]

6. The Palestinians need Israel, not the reverse

Israel has gone international in its quest for workers. Yes, it has happened before and should be made permanent.

[mobuto]

7. How does that work?

How many more Ethiopian Jews are there?

Does Israel really want to remain a garrison state? What's the point of living like that?

And does Israel really want to become another Kuwait, dependent entierly on masses of low-wage foreign workers. I guess they can always import Sri Lankans the way Kuwait does, but then they'd have to worry about Tamil terrorists in addition to Hamas and Hezbollah.

I'm not anti-Israel, I'm just doubtful that there's a viable solution that doesn't involve two cooperative, neighboring states.

[Muddleoftheroad]

8. Answers

1) I don't know, nor does it apply. The foreign workers Israel is shipping in are from Eastern Europe and Asia.
2) No, Israel does NOT wish to remain a garrison state. I only suggest it is needed until such time as the Palestinians shut down the terror groups. Shutting down the border will, perhaps, convince the Palestinians they need Israel.
3) So far it is working. That is good enough.
4) Ultimately, I agree. But that is for the future. Until Palestinians embrace that future, Israel should not either.

[mobuto]

9. But you know that's not going to happen.

Who's going to shut down the Palestinian terror groups? Fatah's going to shut down Hamas? Hamas is going to shut down Fatah? I'm affraid I don't understand.

Shutting down the border will, perhaps, convince the Palestinians they need Israel.


Israel's tried that before. Hasn't worked before, so why would it work now?

Until Palestinians embrace that future, Israel should not either.

Israel doesn't have that luxury. Concessions need to be made by both sides, and both sides need to start getting psychologically prepared for that. As far as Israel is concerned, its going to have to abandon the settlements and hand over all of Gaza, almost all of the so-called "West Bank" and most of East Jerusalem. Palestinians must also make big concensions, but Israel has its work cut out for it. If Israelis aren't prepared psychologically to make those concensions, there will never be peace.

[Muddleoftheroad]

10. Leadership

The Palestinians have leaders. It is up to them to choose a course.

As for shutting down the border, it's always been treated as a temporary measure. That is the mistake. Treating it as a permanent thing will perhaps change attitudes more thoroughly.

Both sides will make concessions. What those end up being, who knows. However, there is no move to even try right now among the Palestinians because Israel cannot and will not settle the problem while the terror threat continues.

[mobuto]

11. The Palestinians have leaders?

Really? Where would they be? I see kleptocrats on one hand and terrorists on the other (although sometimes the groups are not so mutually exclusive).

[Muddleoftheroad]

12. I agree but they are still the leaders

Either they work with them or they replace them (which would be my choice).

[mobuto]

13. Then you work to weaken

Arafat and Hamas.

But Israel has been doing just the opposite.

They've been targetting Hamas' ability to kill Israelis, but not its control over Palestinian society. They need to do both.

[Muddleoftheroad]

14. No they don't

Palestinians need to work and lessen such control over their society. Israel should focus on what happens to its own citizens. Hamas and Arafat are not Israel's responsibility, they are the Palestinians' job to deal with.

[mobuto]

15. If only that were true

But the Palestinians' fate is Israel's fate.

When Israeli citizens are killed, Palestinians involve the Israeli government in their internal affairs. That's a fact of life.

[Muddleoftheroad]

16. Not necessarily

More the reverse. While the fate of the Palestinians is tied up with Israel, the reverse is not necessarily true. The Palestinians need Israel to help establish a state.

The more Israel limits or eliminates contact with the Palestinians, the better off it will be for now.

[mobuto]

17. Perhaps you're right

But will isolation lead to a resolution or just defer it?

[Muddleoftheroad]

18. Who knows?

But even if Israel merely outlasts Arafat and his band of pirates, then perhaps that will improve things.

[mobuto]

19. And just as easily

Hamas will take over full control of the territories and then what?

[Muddleoftheroad]

20. That would probably be easier

Then it would be open, full-scale warfare. If that is the route the Palestinians wish, they will lose.

[mobuto]

21. You couldn't have full-scale warfare.

What would the Israelis attack? It would be guerilla warfare, just as now. You could increase or decrease the scale of such warfare, but you're never going to get a pitched tank battle with Hamas on the Sinai.

[Muddleoftheroad]

22. Nope

If Hamas takes over, ALL the Palestinian armed forces would then be under their control. They wouldn't be wimpy about it like Arafat. It would indeed be their way or the highway.

That would make it easier for Israel. Any armed Palestinian would be an enemy soldier and treated as such. Hamas bases would be shelled and attacked from the air and thousands would die.

No, I am not seeking such a result, but if the Palestinians choose that path, then THEY are seeking it.

[mobuto]

23. So?

Every Hamas based is shelled and is destroyed.

And Hamas goes on running things.

That's not how you defeat a guerilla army.

The only downside for Hamas would be that the Palestinian cause would suffer in world opinion, and they'd get a lot less money.