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Aidoneus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-11-04 08:19 AM
Original message
Gaza death toll rises to 13 Palestinians as gunbattle rages
Gaza death toll rises to 13 Palestinians as gunbattle rages
Wednesday February 11, 8:21 PM

Thirteen Palestinians were killed by Israeli troops in the Gaza Strip, 12 of them in an intensive gunbattle in Gaza City that was still raging after more than 10 hours, Palestinian medical sources said.

The 13th was shot dead during an Israeli raid in the southern town of Rafah, medics said.

The bloodshed provoked a furious reaction from the radical Islamic Hamas movement and from Palestinian negotiations minister Saeb Erakat.

Fierce clashes broke out in Gaza City's eastern al-Shijaiyeh neighbourhood at around 3:00 am (0100 GMT) Wednesday after Israeli tanks moved into the area and opened fire on a Palestinian security post, the sources said.

Medics at Al-Shifa hospital said 12 Palestinians had been killed in the gunbattle and at least 42 wounded, eight of whom were in serious condition.

--snip--

http://sg.news.yahoo.com/040211/1/3hxmw.html
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drdon326 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-11-04 08:21 AM
Response to Original message
1. Saeb "Killing Fields" Erakat....
should be on TV any minute now.
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Aidoneus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-11-04 08:45 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. any other response, by chance?
Edited on Wed Feb-11-04 08:46 AM by Aidoneus
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Herschel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-11-04 09:18 AM
Response to Original message
3. Well done
Again we owe our gratitude to brave IDF soldiers. The Palestinians would do well to stand down.
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bluesoul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-11-04 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Yeah
those kids should get out of their homes, so that when the IDF blows up their homes they don't get to be blamed...
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Herschel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-11-04 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. I was referring
to those resisting in an unacceptable way, not collateral damage.
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_Jumper_ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 07:36 AM
Response to Reply #3
12. When will they learn?
Terrorism has failed them. The entire world, save the USA, is pro-Palestinian. If they tried to protest peacefully they could actually achieve their goals because of world pressure and because most Israelis want peace.
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Aidoneus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 07:38 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. are you familiar with the previous intifada?
they tried that and were slaughtered for years with impunity, and were then shafted on the "Oslo" snake-oil that came out of it.
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_Jumper_ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #14
18. No
Can you give me a primer on it?
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Aidoneus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #18
22. sure
I'll see if I can find a more detailed piece later if you're interested, but I can write up something in general now.

In short, they indeed did try everything mentioned when people say "well, they should <blank> instead" now--mass demonstrations, workers' strikes, economic methods of resistance, international press attention, etc... It was a geniunely mass popular uprising, and generally non-violent means of resistance were employed (sometimes demonstrations that were attacked by Israeli military/police would respond with rock-throwing, but know that violence was NOT the primarily intended method). There were some attacks on military forces and colonists in the occupied Palestinian territories, but such were NOT any primary activity of choice, just as they aren't now either but of course a bit more prominent and considered more newsworthy.

In response to this, they were beaten, shot, tortured, and seized en mass--hundreds of deaths caused by Israeli military and settler rampages every year of the struggle, thousands more injured, with some 175,000 Palestinians arrested in the time periond.

Israeli PM Shamir endorsed this brutal campaign wholeheartedly; that great peaceful dove General Rabin proposed a "Force--Might--Beatings"/"Break Their Bones!" sort of response. International support was clearly behind the Palestinians. President Bush wasn't so sure about it all, but nothing was effectively done to stop it and American policymakers continued to support the Israeli occupations of Palestine and Lebanon. (the latter being a whole other subject.. of which I also know quite well--in fact, it was while studying the '87-'95 intifada and Israeli occupation of Lebanon that I became completely disgusted, and re-evaluated everything about Israel the modern Mideast history..)

In the year that it began, there were several settler rampages in the '67-occupied Palestinian lands, particularly the Nablus/Balata and Gaza camps, with the occupying army doing nothing to stop it. The formal start of the uprising occured in December, after an Israeli truck in Gaza rammed into vans of Palestinian workers returning home--but it was in general a fire just waiting for a spark to begin with, just like the al-Aqsa Intifada was in 2000, that was just what finally set it off. A thousand Palestinians were seized and arrested that Christmas weekend alone!

The struggle lasted several years. The Israeli government, realizing that beating the Palestinians into submission was no option in ending the resistance, turned to Arafat and the PLO to suppress the intifada for them, through the sham process that became known as the Oslo Accords. This process across the 90s saw the transformation of the PLO from a revolutionary nationalist movement to a generally ineffective (in both senses) collaborationist government called the Palestinian Authority. The time period also saw no lasting positive changes over conditions in '67-occupied Palestine, and vastly increased colonization of the land by the Israeli government--most markedly under Labour administrations, I might add.

The experience was very instructive to all parties. While their initial response was panic in realizing that their ability to brutalize the uprising into submission were failing miserably--as such ideas ALWAYS WILL--, US/Israeli policymakers used the PLO to good effect in putting down the uprising without needing to resolve the core issues behind it. This was a particularly educating experience to Hamas as well, among many others but notably so in their case and that had the most effect on today's activities, who in an embryonic status participated in the uprising (the nature of activities between then and now are FAR different, I might add). The lesson taught to them was that continuing on the same path would only lead to fruitless brutalization and beatings, no positive change brought about, and betrayal by collaborationist entities looking to fatten themselves in exchange for the momentary illusion of power given to them by the Israeli occupying authorities.

The period of the 90s saw vastly increased "settlement" activities in '67-occupied Palestine, which meant more Palestinians driven off their lands and the latter seized. The Labour party as head of State in Israel saw no change in these colonization activities, nor did conditions in the '67-occupied Palestinian lands effectively alter for the better under their watch. The hostile activities of the "settlers" in the occupied lands continued, with next to nothing done about them by the Israeli military.

I shouldn't leave out the most notable of these "settler" attacks, as it had a very profound effect on recent news. February 25th of this year is the 10th "anniversary" of the massacre in Hebron/al-Khalil, where an American Jewish "settler" named Baruch Goldstein, on a suicide mission, shot and killed around 30 people (wounding dozens more) at the Haram al-Ibrahimi mosque in al-Khalil before being beaten to death by the survivors. Shortly after this, a Hamas human-bomber appeared as the last of 5 bombings that were carried out in retaliation to this massacre.

That's about all I have to write for now, I'm sorry if this may be a bit disorganized..

here's a couple timelines of events for the time periods:--
http://www.passia.org/palestine_facts/chronology/19631988.htm
http://www.passia.org/palestine_facts/chronology/19891990.htm
http://www.passia.org/palestine_facts/chronology/19911993.htm
http://www.passia.org/palestine_facts/chronology/19941995.htm

These are from a Palestinian site, so I guess feel free to attack it from that angle, but I would highly recommend the chronologies--they're a bit long, but incredibly useful.
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_Jumper_ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #22
23. Thanks
:yourock: This is very interesting. I was not aware of all this.
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Aidoneus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-12-04 06:24 PM
Response to Original message
6. Israeli soldiers gun down Palestinian child
Israeli soldiers gun down Palestinian child
Thursday 12 February 2004

A Palestinian child was killed by Israeli army fire in the southern Gaza Strip town of Rafah on Thursday night, Palestinian and Israeli sources said.

Another Palestinian child, aged 11, wounded by army fire in Rafah.

His family said he was 12 years old and had gone out to play with relatives when soldiers opened fire.

An Israeli military spokesman said the boys were among a group of children sent by fighters to lead occupation soldiers into an ambush. The claim could not be confirmed.

--snip--

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/ED6E9AC0-1FEE-4C5E-B972-EAAFC2EDCB27.htm
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Herschel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-12-04 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Quite sad
when Palestinians involve their children.
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Djinn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-12-04 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. whereas
taking ones children into an area not considered by any nations in the world community to actually be part of Israel - to live on a settlement because you think God wants the land to be jewish is the height of sensible parenting
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_Jumper_ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 07:37 AM
Response to Reply #6
13. Unbelievable
Children? What kind of person sends their kids to death???????
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Aidoneus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 07:41 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. "sends their kids to death"?!
Edited on Fri Feb-13-04 08:08 AM by Aidoneus
they were out playing when they were shot and killed/injured by the invaders.. have you no words for their assassin?
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_Jumper_ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. Not according to the IDF
"An Israeli military spokesman said the boys were among a group of children sent by fighters to lead occupation soldiers into an ambush."

Does the IDF have a history of intentionally killing kids?
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Aidoneus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 09:43 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. "The claim could not be confirmed."
such acts happen often enough to discredit such protestations, in addition to the record of lies out of the institution making the claim.
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_Jumper_ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 09:43 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. Does it have a history of killing kids intentionally?
?
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Aidoneus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. it has a history of killing kids
Edited on Fri Feb-13-04 10:18 AM by Aidoneus
I cannot comment on the question of "intentionally", but such acts happen frequently enough to either doubt the claims of "accident", or rather assume that an there exists an institutionalized disinterest in giving a damn when it does happen--which, to repeat myself, is often enough to warrant suspicion. The rare investigations that the IDF does of itself gives the phrase "whitewash" a bad name--the Bush people could learn a thing or two from them that would be useful in the next few weeks.

The Israeli occupation forces invade these cities, partly in order to kill people as a demonstration and example to those nearby that survive, with an eye towards influencing through the use of violent force the future activities of the population in question. In other words, what the Justice Department refers to as "terrorism" when the wrong people do such things, though the word has no meaning to me personally and I try to avoid its use except in jest. I do not feign surprise when the expected result of such actions ends up happening, and the explanation seems kind of obvious..
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ex_jew Donating Member (627 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-12-04 08:49 PM
Response to Original message
9. 12 more killed for Netzarim, a settlement of 60 families
(as of May 2003 - source: http://www.jrep.com/Reporter/Article-13.html)

Is there any limit to how many should be killed to protect 60 families who are supposed to be relocated in any case ? Or does the IDF just get some kind of kick from staging firefights in civilian areas ? I wish I understood.
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Aidoneus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 07:09 AM
Response to Original message
10. Israelis kill farmer in West Bank
Israelis kill farmer in West Bank
Friday 13 February 2004

A Palestinian has been killed by an Israeli unit that moved in to the town of Kabatiyeh in the north of the West Bank.

Palestinian security sources said farmer Ahmed Nazal, 28, was shot dead early on Friday morning as he went to work in his fields.

--snip--

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/ED6E9AC0-1FEE-4C5E-B972-EAAFC2EDCB27.htm
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Aidoneus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 07:20 AM
Response to Original message
11. Israeli forces kill 13 Palestinians in Gaza and Rafah
same event, more details on what went down..

Israeli forces kill 13 Palestinians in Gaza and Rafah
Report, PCHR, 11 February 2004

On Wednesday morning, 11 February 2004, 12 Palestinians were killed by Israeli occupying forces in al-Shojaeya neighborhood in Gaza city and one Palestinian was killed by Israeli forces in the Rafah refugee camp. Three of the victims killed in al-Shojaeya died when Israeli occupying forces destroyed a house over them. In addition, at least 50 Palestinians, including 23 children, were injured in the two incidents. Medical sources at hospitals in the Gaza Strip described the condition of 20 of those injured as moderate to serious.

These developments took place as Israeli occupying forces, supported by helicopters, moved into al-Shojaeya neighborhood in the east of Gaza city and into Rafah refugee camp in the southern Gaza Strip. Israeli military sources claimed that the two incursions were conducted with the aim of arresting wanted individuals. At time of issue, Israeli forces have withdrawn from al-Shojaeya neighborhood, but remain inside the Rafah refugee camp.

According to preliminary investigations conducted by PCHR, at approximately 05:00 this morning, an undercover unit of Israeli occupying forces moved into al-Shojaeya neighborhood in the east of Gaza city coming from Nahal Ouz crossing on the eastern border of the Gaza Strip. The unit moved towards a Palestinian National Security Forces post. Israeli soldiers and the Palestinian security services exchanged fire.

As a result, a Palestinian security man, Mohammed Kamal Abu ‘Armana, 22, from al-Boreij refugee camp, was killed, and 2 other Palestinian security men were injured. A few minutes later, Israeli occupying forces, reinforced by heavy military vehicles and covered by intense shelling, moved approximately 1500m into al-Shojaeya neighborhood. Israeli forces surrounded a 250- square-meter, 2-storey house belonging to the family of Ashraf Abu Hassanain, 22, who was reportedly wanted by the Israeli occupation forces.

Israeli soldiers ordered the 3 families (17 people) living in the house out. Soon after, Israeli soldiers opened fire at the house in which Ashraf and 2 of his colleagues were hiding. Ashraf and his colleagues exchanged fire with Israeli forces. When the exchange of fire had stopped, Israeli forces destroyed the house with the 3 men inside. When Israeli forces withdrew from the neighborhood, the bodies of Ashraf and his two colleagues – Ayman Nasser al-Sheikh Khalil, 22, and Mohammed al-Hayek, 25 – were found near the house.

As a result of excessive and indiscriminate use of force, 4 Palestinians were killed and more than 40 others, including 20 children, were injured in the incursion into al-Shojaeya. Some of the injured remain in a serious condition.

--snip--

http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article2417.shtml

similar piece:--
http://www.pchrgaza.org/files/PressR/English/2004/19-2004.htm
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Herschel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 09:18 AM
Response to Reply #11
16. You will forgive me
if I am skeptical of stories involving Palestinian "security" personnel in "Electronic Intifada". Oh, my.
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