Israeli minister wants Muslims converted

[DuctapeFatwa]

An Israeli minister has called on missionaries to solve the Middle East's problems by converting Muslims to Christianity and so "combat terrorism".


Speaking on public radio this Sunday, the National Union party's Benny Elon also called on fundamentalist Christian groups to bolster Israel by pushing the nation's "biblical" rights to land.

"It would be better that these people are converted to Christianity which is based on the Bible and recognises our rights" to the holy land.

The tourism minister added that Israel would welcome evangelists in their effort to "spread the good word" in Israel - on condition that they do not seek to convert Jews.

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/6F5471AE-9316-49C3-A3D4-BA3EDD83E74F.htm

[Taeger]

1. They'd have better luck

They'd have better luck creating a new sect of "Mohammed Jews". Basically, you'd create the analogue of Jesus Jews (Church of James the Just).

Remember that ALL Christians and Muslims are a little bit Jewish.

[mac2]

2. OK to be a Jews but not Muslim?

Sharon is a Neo Con using religion to conquer and assume power. Israel a democracy? Yes...but it's leaders gone sour.

All Christians, Jews, and Muslims had the same roots...Abraham. Let's combine them all as Abrahamies. Live in peace as Abraham asked.

[Ahava]

19. That should work.

LOL

[sushi]

28. That's a wonderful suggestion!

Let's all be Abrahamies, stop fighting, and start sharing.

[_Jumper_]

40. How about eliminating the three violent religions?

Imagine how the Middle East woud look today without those three religions.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

3. But Islam recognizes

the Torah and the Bible as part of the Book. I know that the fundamentalist Wahhabis don't want to admit it, but we are to treat all people of the Book as brothers and not force them to change their faith. The Beloved Prophet had two Jewish wives, and never sought to convert them!

[mac2]

4. Separate but equal

Freedom of religion gives everyone a chance to worship/or not as they please as long as they don't disrupt others. Seems leaders want to use religion/or not for their own gain.

[drdon326]

5. OK....

So maybe you can explain to me why there is blatant
chorus of anti-semitism in arab and muslim media that
calls jews "dogs and apes" and that its a religious
duty to kill jews??

[Darranar]

7. Uh...

I know that the fundamentalist Wahhabis don't want to admit it

[drdon326]

8. Darranar..

i dont understand your post.

[Darranar]

10. Every religion has its intolerant fools and extremists...

There is no reason to suspect that because Islam also has them, what ayeshahaqqiqa said is innaccurate.

[drdon326]

12. The trouble is....

the pervasive anti-semitism eminating from arab/muslim
govt controlled media are not isolated "fools and extremists".

A very smart person said the following:

"It appears that anti-semitism is still a considerable threat. It should not be ignored."

[Darranar]

15. Nevertheless, it proves nothing about the religion itself...

Anti-semitism and I/P are both useful to the tyrannical Arab regimes in many ways, which is why they flourish; however, Hussein, Mubarak, Arafat, and Yassin are no more illustrative of Islam than Elon and Netanyahu are of Judiasm.

[Ahava]

20. Really?

Numbers, stats, link please.

[Forkboy]

24. To what?

:eyes:

[MikeGalos]

23. But most religions

don't have their radical, fundamentalist, extremists funded by the Saudi royal family and most don't have a member (Wahhab, hiself) married into the Saudi royal family.

Imagine the World Church of the Creator (which is a rough equivalent of the Wahhabists) with billions in financial backing.

[Djinn]

38. Opus Dei - Antonin Scalia

I know it's not the same as the Sacreligious Wahhabi freaks and their Saudi connections, but weird freaky religious cults DO have a bit of a grip on Westerbn power also...atleast the self beaters do anyway

[Jack Rabbit]

13. That is not essential to Islam

That kind of bigotry is no more essential to Islam than Mr. Elon's reamrks are essential to Judaism. One cannot be used to justify the other.

Tu quoque and touche.

[sushi]

30. I remember reading

that an Israeli general (I think it was the one with one eye) has also called Palestinians "dogs." Namecalling doesn't get anybody anywhere.

[sushi]

29. I didn't know

the Muslims' Prophet had two Jewish wives, and never sought to convert them. That must be why when a non-Muslim girl marries a Muslim man, she doesn't need to convert. I agree.

How come when a Muslim girl marries a non-Muslim man he is pressured by her family to convert? I don't agree. Don't you think that's unfair, and should change? It should be the couple's decision, nobody else's.

[Aidoneus]

35. and they're basically alone in even acknowledging other people like that

A fact often overlooked. The rest pretty much have clear "KILL" orders with respect to other groups, and that's not often ignored.

[brainshrub]

6. First the sword, then the cross.

This is an old story.

Perhaps the government could mandate that the only Arabs allowed to go into Israel if they were Christian? They could give little "Christan ID cards" ...I'll bet Pat Robertson would love that.

I wonder why they don't try to convert the Arabs to Judaism? It is possible to become a Jew if you convert?

Question: I'm a Belgian-American Catholic. Suppose I converted to Judaism? ... Would that qualify me to immigrate to Israel? Would I be allowed to open a settlement in Gaza?

[Jack Rabbit]

9. Benny Elon

What is somebody like this doing in Sharon's government? It would be like Bush appointing David Duke to a minor post in his cabinet. Would we tolerate that?

Elon is a leading obfuscater of the Jordan-is-Palestine canard. He advocates transfer (aka ethnic cleansing) of Arabs from Israel and the Palestinian Territories.

Now this. Elon joins the family of Islamophobes. The reason that Palestinians are resisting have nothing do with fear of being driven from their homes (something of which Elon is hardly reassuring); no, the problem is Islam, and will be solved making Christians out of Muslims.

Sharon should dismiss this racist and sectarian bigot from the cabinet immediately. Elon is unacceptable.

[bluesoul]

11. Apparently he is not unacceptable to the likud gang

Personally I am not surprised they welcome such people. They are part of their ideology and mentality. That's only one of the reasons why I can't stand them.

[GabysPoppy]

25. A study and some knowledge of the GOI is recommended here.

Many of your questions and assumptions may go answered or changed.

[Jack Rabbit]

31. I am aware that a multi-party system requires coalitions to be built

Did Sharon really have invite Moledet into the government if it meant having to put a repugnant racist like Elon in his cabinet?

[GabysPoppy]

34. Jack, you seem to be one of the few people who are aware.

I really don't recall the events of the last days of Sharon gathering his majority. I would gather those last few days were somewhat akin to getting the remains of the barrel to reach his 61.

I do remember Mitznah stalking off and refusing to be a part of the government. Maybe things would have been different had he not done so. It is not as if his party numbered enough to be a a decent minority.

[Lithos]

14. There is a comparison

that can easily be made between Benny Elon and the most extremist clerics often cited by Memri. The language used between the two is often racist and divisive, both viewpoints are bolstered by the lack of official denial or distancing. Thankfully though both do not represent the majority.

L-

[drdon326]

16. I sure hope you're right...

but to compare the few Benny Elon's against the relentless drumbeat
of anti-semitism coming from clerics THRUOUT the arab/muslim world
as well as govts themselves seems disingenuous at best and sorry
to say , untrue at worst.

(edit for clarity and my unique spelling.)

[Ahava]

21. Whether or not the

poster to whom you responded is right or not, your message is 100% correct.

[Lithos]

26. Here is an very interesting article

Which talks about the problem from a Muslim perspective.

http://www.secularislam.org/articles/khawaja3.htm

There are two possible interpretations.

(1) The first is to see the Quran as condemning the Jews collectively and eternally for their failure to embrace Islam. On this interpretation, the differences between Judaism and Islam are more important than any similarities; thus, we should ignore the similarities and focus on the differences, regarding the Jews as enemies of Islam, whom Muslims are commanded to fight until the Day of Judgment.

(2) A second, more traditional interpretation holds that in criticizing Jews, the Quran is condemning specific transgressions by specific Jewish individuals or tribes, not collective sins committed by a race, ethnicity or creed. On this interpretation, the similarities between Judaism and Islam outweigh the differences; thus, Muslims should use the similarities as the basis for harmony between the two faiths, settling any remaining differences by discourse rather than violence. Obviously, these two interpretations of the Quran contradict one another, and Muslims must choose between them.

A second source of Arab/Muslim anti-Semitism is a skewed understanding of the Arab-Israeli conflict. Far too many Arabs and Muslims grow up with the belief that God commands them to side with the Palestinians against the Israelis in that conflict. Thus without bothering to acquaint themselves with facts or context, such people come to believe that the history of the dispute consists of nothing but Israeli atrocities against Arabs.

In this view of things, the Arabs are nothing but victims, and the Israelis nothing but aggressors; the Arabs are responsible for nothing, and the Israelis are responsible for everything. From such a view, it's easy enough to slide into conspiracy theorizing, and from there to the belief that the Jews are a corrupt and diabolical race, while the Arabs are a noble and pure one. Unfortunately, this view of history has less to do with the pursuit of Palestinian rights than it does with role-playing, and does no one any real good, much less the Palestinians.

A third source of Muslim anti-Semitism is what I call "retaliatory bigotry," i.e., Arab/Muslim retaliation for bigotry suffered at the hands of Jews. In raising this issue, I don't mean to be making excuses for Muslim anti-Semites or to be blaming their victims. Bigotry is a moral failing for which its practitioners alone are responsible; nothing excuses it, and no one deserves it. But in criticizing Arabs and Muslims for their failings, we should not imagine that the sources of Arab/Muslim anti-Semitism lie exclusively within the Arab/Muslim community.

In thirty-odd years of life, I've been on the receiving end of a good deal of bigotry, much of it directed at me by Jews. As both victim of and witness to such bigotry, I resolved not to fall into the cycle of responding in kind to those who had perpetrated it. I did, however, watch others fail in that struggle, succumbing to the need to hit back at bigots by becoming bigots themselves. It's clear to me that such "retaliatory bigotry" is a large source of Arab/Muslim anti-Semitism. To combat it, we must see-and get others to see-that anti-Semitism does not exist in a vacuum; it's part of a vicious cycle in which anti-Muslim bigotry plays a role. We should, then, commit no trespasses against others, but overlook none against ourselves. Our task is to fight anti-Semitism from a spirit of justice, not of turning the other cheek.

[drdon326]

32. Thank You...

excellent article that clearly has much introspection of
a difficult topic.

Notice his intrepretation of the Quran is divided into 2
parts-the second of which he calls the "traditional" interpretation
...and therefore by implication the 1st is the more (my word) current interpretation.

(His statement of being on the receiving end of bigotry from jews
in his Patterson,NJ neighborhood is interesting but he does not
elaborate and i wonder in amazement what he views as bigotry.)

But nonetheless,the fact that he acknowledges the problem is
redeeming and hopeful. I wonder if his words,in the current climate
of state sponsored anti-semitism, would be met with disrespect... or
worse.

And one more thing, that is some interesting site:

INSTITUTE OF SECULARISATION OF ISLAMIC SOCIETY.

Talk about swimming against the tide.

[Forkboy]

17. Well at least Ann Coulters aren't just a US phenomenon

Yikes!

[pop goes the weasel]

18. It's not like Christian Arabs don't already exist, after all

That's sarcasm, BTW.

I hadn't noticed that Israel has a separate treatment of Christian Palestinians than Muslim ones. This is just a play to American fundies, and at the same time an attempt to inflame Muslim fears further against Christians. This is the sort of talk that eventually backfires, though, and then causes trouble for one's own group. I imagine most Israelis would like Elon to just shut up.

[Ahava]

22. Oh, yes, you are right.

Mr. and Mrs. Ararat are most Christian!

[sushi]

27. Convert the Muslims

but not the Jews. So, "do not 'spread the good word' to the Jews." That tourism minister sure is funny!

[Gimel]

33. Yes, I agree

Since Jews don't proselytize, get the Christians to do it. Christians love to spread the "word". Just put them together with the Muslims and see who comes out the winner.

[sushi]

36. What do you agree with?

That Muslims should be converted but not Jews, or that the tourism minister is funny?

Yes, Christian missionaries are all over the world posing as teachers and aid workers, or whatever. Meanwhile they're working hard trying to convert people or spying, or whatever. I have read that Christians and Jews are now united in fighting Muslims, and after that they'll fight each other.

I think it's fine for everybody to try to convert whomever they want. If they succeed, great. If not, move on. As long as they don't fight!

[Gimel]

37. I agree that he is funny

However, the Christians should not try to convert Jews. That was not in your message, exactly.

This theoretical thinking is not practical, and so can only be a joke. If Christians could convert the most radical Muslims to a peaceful path, that would be great, however. I don't think they have much chance of success.

[number6]

39. send in Franklin Graham.......

;) :eyes: those silly Muslims, don't they know there
not as good as Christians and Jews >sarcasm off<