Anti-Semitism in Europe

[GabysPoppy]

The history of the Jews of any European nation is clouded with inhumanity and punctuated by tragedy. For centuries, an attitude of intolerant scorn was cultivated against the Jews. Sadly, some residue of this attitude remains despite the devastating history of the last century and the fact that Jews in no European nation comprise as much as 2 percent of the population.

snip

The report clearly identifies those who are introducing, spreading and acting on this hateful attitude as Muslims and Pro-Palestinian sympathizers. These actions do not take place in a vacuum. These extremists certainly put out feelers and took the measure of their hosts. They must have soon discovered that they would meet with support from elements of the left, support from elements the right, studied indifference from the center and very little opposition. And so, they went to work.

In the West, those who peddle political anti-Semitism do so carefully. They screen themselves nicely behind liberally whitewashed words that echo the rhetoric of political protest and the struggle for human rights. But no amount of loaded political buzz words, from "apartheid," to "colonialist," to "racist" can give cover to violent actions.

Physical attacks on Jews and the desecration and destruction of synagogues do not constitute legitimate criticism of Israel. Such actions constitute violent anti-Semitism. No society having pretensions to civilization can tolerate wanton violence against any of its citizens. How to stop the violence? Not by suppressing reports

snip

http://web.israelinsider.com/bin/en.jsp?enPage=ViewsPage&enDisplay=view&enDispWhat=object&enDispWho=Article%5El3228&enZone=Views&enVersion=0&

[drewb]

1. That's a pretty broad brush you've got there...

You could paint a house with one swipe of that thing...

:loveya:

[Muddleoftheroad]

2. If the brush fits...

[Name removed]

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[Resistance]

3. anti-semitism should be fought

there is a very well said line here: "Physical attacks on Jews and the desecration and destruction of synagogues do not constitute legitimate criticism of Israel." So true!

But I am tired of these attacks on the left which tries to intermingle true anti-semitism with legitimate criticism of Israeli Apartheid and imperialist schemes which shows total disregard for Palestinians. Note the writer goes on to say "Political anti-Semitism obsesses on the real or imagined shortcomings of the government of Israel."

What a bunch of crap. It amounts to more of the same stupidity that criticizing Israel is in itself anti-semitic, which we all know is not true. But, these are the lies we've come to expect from "Israel-Insider"

[GabysPoppy]

4. What a bunch of crap? I think not

"In the West, those who peddle political anti-Semitism do so carefully. They screen themselves nicely behind liberally whitewashed words that echo the rhetoric of political protest and the struggle for human rights. But no amount of loaded political buzz words, from "apartheid," to "colonialist," to "racist" can give cover to violent actions."

[Resistance]

5. oh no!

we don't want to use them lib'rul words now do we? :crazy:

Thanks for proving again that yes, this writer is full of crap.

[GabysPoppy]

6. Those "lib'rul" words work very well, thank you

[Resistance]

7. Exactly

Opposing Israeli Apartheid and colonialism is not anti-semitism.

[GabysPoppy]

8. Exactly

"But no amount of loaded political buzz words, from "apartheid," to "colonialist," to "racist" can give cover to violent actions."

[Resistance]

9. who said they can?

:shrug:

Most of the excuse making comes from the Israeli side, which justifies all the Israeli terror operations and killing sprees against innocent Palestinians.

And don't try and say there aren't Israeli terror operations, because there are. They murder innocents just as recklessly as Hamas terrorists do. They invade refugee camps and spray the areas with gunfire. They drop missiles on crowds of people. They bulldoze homes on land that isn't theirs. They murder kids and innocent women. This is terrorism.

[Jim Sagle]

22. No, it;'s counterterrorism.

[Jim Sagle]

21. Since there IS no Israeli apartheid or colonialism,

to denounce it is certainly unfair.

[Gimel]

43. If they would respect themselves

As the old saying goes. Charity begins at home.

[Name removed]

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[Resistance]

11. no doubt

I've missed the "Israel Insider" reports too. Isn't that fresh air of right-wingnut editorialism dropped on us every now and then just so invigorating?

[legin]

12. LOL

:evilgrin:

[Name removed]

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[cantwealljustgetalong]

17. don't despair...

we are approaching the 24 hour mark...it won't be long before another Rachel Corrie or USS Liberty thread comes along to boost morale...

[vierundzwanzig]

14. The history of the Jews of any European nation is clouded with inhumanity

While there may be some truth to that it is also true that the history of any nation with any history at all is clouded with cruelty, oppression and hatred. Look at the American Genocide of the Indian (or Protugese or Spanish if you prefer) and the enslavement of the black people.

Anti-semitism is - like all of the above - the singling out of a particular group and it's genocide or [particular exploitation. Jews do not have a monopoly on that.

[Muddleoftheroad]

15. 2,000 years

No, unfortunately many groups have been targeted in the history of mankind. None, however, have received the kind of epic abuse that Jews have. For 2,000 years, they have been beaten, raped, robbed and butchered. Their homes have been taken, their synogogues destroyed and they have been chased from nation to nation by pogrom, Inquisition and Holocaust.

Interestingly enough, most of that history has been in Europe where anti-Semitism persists to this day.

[Name removed]

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[Muddleoftheroad]

18. Your attempt to minimize the suffering of Jews

Is ironic. (I was accused of not liking irony DU, it's not true.) I find the irony in your statement. But if you can't see it...

As for your minimization of Jewish suffering, it is below contempt. Yes, many groups suffered at the hands of the Inquisition. Many groups suffered at the hands of the Russians or Stalin. Many groups suffered at the hands of the Catholic Church. Many groups suffered at the hands of the Poles. Many groups suffered here and there and everywhere.

Somehow, it was ALWAYS Jews among the suffering in Europe. Even in the Crusades you cite, Jews suffered heavily.

In Europe, it's not a trend. It's been a way of life for 2,000 years.

Even more, Europeans have been rationalizing this action for years. The church did so. Various nations did so. They even did so in Germany.

[Name removed]

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[vierundzwanzig]

26. In Europe, it's not a trend. It's been a way of life for 2,000 years.

If you can back this up in any way with research, I'd appreciate it.

Otherwise, for me being a European emigrant, it sounds like an insult.

[Muddleoftheroad]

29. It is not an insult

To say America has a horrible record dealing with blacks in no way implies all Americans are racist. To say Europe has a horrendous record dealing with the Jewish people in no way implies that all Europeans are anti-Semitic.

Both are merely facts and facts we must use to take in context all other events.

How many pogroms, attacks by the Catholic church, incidents of old anti-Semitism, Inquisitions, Holocausts and the like do you need? Maybe you should just recall how even the British kept Jews in camps months and months after WWII. And they were "good guys."

[Jim Sagle]

23. No one said we had a monopoly. Your last paragraph therefore

rebuts a point that was never made.

[vierundzwanzig]

24. That was what Muddle

was implying.

But I am just not doing a good job of rebutting this.

Maybe if all these threads would just fly by at the speed of light I could quote the 'reputable' sources directly.

In the interest of fairness, may I suggest that the topic of anti-Semitism be excluded from the Israeli/Palestinian conflict discussion?

There is so much to be said about that alone that would have all of us be scorned (unless, of course, we would merely sputter well-worded opinions which do not contribute to the exploration of the matter).

It is extremely hard for me to counter Muddle without violations, merely for logistic reasons.

Please be fair.

[Muddleoftheroad]

25. Fair

How can we exclude anti-Semitism from the I/P debate when it is a major issue?

[vierundzwanzig]

27. Because

I cannot respond to it without being labeled anti-Semitic.

The analysis of the Jewish progression and oppression or non-oppression in time cannot be confounded without being labeled anti-Semitic.

If one was to analyze the peculiarities of the Jewish culture and how it contributed or attributed or was involved in or was not involved in the history of Judaism and the treatment of the Jewish people and that things were not necessarily caused by the fact that everybody just hated the Jews for no good reason, one would tread so much on hot waters that one would slaughter a holy cow. Hypothetically, this would get you banned, right?

Now, of course thinking the Jews were simply persecuted because they were Jews I rest my case. I don't think that that was so.

But to go along with Counterpunch (an accepted, non-banned source): There is no *new* Anti-Semitism. There are the same old suspects and culprits. And again, to pin it on Europe, is personally offensive to me.

[Muddleoftheroad]

28. Perhaps that is a hint how significant the topic is

At the same time, I feel your pain. Not a day goes by now where I don't encounter posts that I must ignore and alert on rather than respond. There are rules here and we both try to obey them.

Sorry, but blaming Europe for what chunks of Europe do with great regularity seems perfectly fair. Should I ignore Germany because it gave us the Holocaust and still has neo-Nazis? Should I ignore Vichy as part of France's history? How about Austria and their embrace of the Nazis? Or Italy?

I will grant there need be no NEW anti-Semitism. It is the same old kind among the same old kinds of people and in the same old places.

[vierundzwanzig]

32. Exactly

my friend - do you alert on?

It seems a practice that I should be adept on and certainly capable of?

Save me the wading through the immense amount of regulations and procedures and help me keep DU clean. I have one strike left and I shouldn't waste it.

[GabysPoppy]

30. Excuse me

"Now, of course thinking the Jews were simply persecuted because they were Jews I rest my case. I don't think that that was so."

That sir is offensive to me.

Please take a tour here.

http://www.yad-vashem.org.il/

I am terribly sorry your feelings are hurt. Your option is to ignore or hide any thread you find offensive. You can rest assure there will be more. To ignore these facts is to forgot these facts.
"NEVER AGAIN" has meaning and purpose.

[Lurking Dem]

31. Jews were persecuted because.....

of REASONS! Yeah! There were REASONS!

I am disgusted.

[vierundzwanzig]

33. What do you want me to say

without being banned?

[GabysPoppy]

34. Why should your true feelings make you banable?

:shrug:

[Lurking Dem]

35. That would give a reflective man

pause for thought.

[Muddleoftheroad]

37. How are we to interpret that?

[Blitz]

38. Why don't you tell us what you really think

I have posted all kinds of controversial opinions here over the 2 years or so that I've been here. I have no doubt that you can express your views in a manner that we will all respect (the manner that is; I cannot guarantee respect for the views themselves on anyone's behalf) and that stays within the DU rules.

[GabysPoppy]

41. Kick

To give the gentleman time to answer before it falls off the front page.

[Name removed]

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[Muddleoftheroad]

44. Still waiting...

[Cassandra]

45. If you think that what you want to say...

would get you banned, perhaps you should look at what you want to say.

[Lurking Dem]

46. He's tombstoned.

May he rest in peace (unlike a couple of folks on both sides of this fence that keep popping up like gophers).

[Name removed]

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[Jim Sagle]

39. But that's where it originated. That's what I truly believe.

How can I express my truth without offending you?

[Jim Sagle]

40. I don't understand. The Web is global. What kind of "logistic reasons"

makes it hard for you to respond to Muddle?