Liberal Nationalism by Gil Troy, 11/26/03

[pistoff democrat]

The worldwide campaign to rob Israel of its good name has strained Zionism's historic linkage with liberalism. Too many progressives have attacked Israel and Zionism, especially in academia. Palestinians have cleverly hijacked the rhetoric of human rights to rationalize that great human wrong, terrorism. The new, politically correct position of demonizing the Jewish state and Jewish nationalism, combined with the Palestinians' turn from negotiation toward terrorism, has inaccurately stereotyped all Zionists as conservatives. In fact, liberalism and Zionism remain mutually reinforcing.

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Of course, there is a tension between universalism and particularism. But it is odd that often the same Chomskyite forces that celebrate Palestinian nationalism negate Zionism. It is particularly odd considering Canadian parliamentarian Irwin Cotler's insight that the Jews are the original aboriginal people, still speaking the same language, still developing the same culture, still tied to the same land after thousands of years. Nationalism remains the defining "constitutive" force of the modern world, as Boston University professor Liah Greenfield writes. To single out Jewish nationalism, meaning Zionism, as the only illegitimate form of nationalism is bigotry.

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Critics should be ashamed for singling out Israel merely for acting like any other modern nation-state. Many myopic critics are blind to Jewish suffering and Palestinian violence. Even many Israelis, especially far too many Israeli academics at home and abroad, lambaste Israeli "oppression" while ignoring Israel's risks for peace during the Oslo years and the Palestinians' lethal rejectionism.

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Suspiciously, while demonizing the Jewish state, liberal critics overlook the restrictions most European countries impose on non-Europeans. Europe is no model — not because of its horrific past, but because of its hypocritical present.


http://www.forward.com/issues/2003/03.11.28/oped5.html

[MikeGalos]

1. Bravo

Yet another example of how our good Liberal name has been hijacked by idealogues blind to actual liberal values.

An excellent essay that should be read by everyone here.

I do sometimes wonder if the right-wing is funding all the "liberal" anti-Israel press releases in order to weaken the left. It's working pretty well. Of course, it could just be Arafat's stolen millions and Saudi Billions being poured into Arafat's mother-in-law's PR firm.

Either way, it's tragic that the most anti-liberal states and movements get "liberal" support while a socialist democracy with universal suffrage, free health care and level of free speech and free press and free courts that should be the envy of most of the world including the US gets treated as a pariah.

[pistoff democrat]

2. It's about time

people understand that liberals do not have to be anti-Israel! I am so glad I stumbled across this earlier today.

[MikeGalos]

3. Darn

Who's going to break it to Pat Buchanan and David Duke that they're no longer Liberals...

[bluesoul]

4. Were they EVER liberals?

From an European perspective they were always RW BIGOTS (to say the least) as far as I am concerned...

[pistoff democrat]

6. Right

So you agree with the op-ed, then?

[bluesoul]

8. If this is about

people like them, then hell yes! Duke was a KKK type (no more is needed to say) and Pat a rw bigot from the very beginning. Even if he would like to sugar-coat his messages, he still is one. Just like Fini in Europe (whom some here believe has suddenly changed)...

[MikeGalos]

9. A while back

Duke published a website blaming Bush's war on Iraq as the Jews secretly directing Bush's Foreign Policy to benefit Israel and/or the Likud Party and/or Sharon and there were people in I/P who had no problem with that theory or with Duke.

[bluesoul]

10. I was not one of them

and I wouldn't agree with such theory...

[Violet_Crumble]

41. Got a link to where that happened?

I've been here a long time and I never saw that, and to be honest, after seeing all the twisting of what people say in this forum, I don't believe a thing until I see for myself that it's what someone's said, and not some overly creative misrepresentation provided by someone else. I do remember back when someone falsely accused Ad Jameson of being a fan of David Duke, though....


Violet...

[MikeGalos]

7. They were and are RW Bigots

But they were praised here for their unflagging support of the Palestinians and undying criticism of all things Israeli.

That politics and bedfellows thing again...

[pistoff democrat]

5. Place your bets here!

I would imagine it would be someone from I/P...but, the devil is in the details!

[rini]

13. exactly right or should I say left

n/t

[pistoff democrat]

15. Rini

Isn't MikeGalos a treasure?

[rini]

16. yes

[drdon326]

11. Great post.....

THIS should be required reading.

[pistoff democrat]

12. Glad you agree!

I kinda wonder why no poster from 'the other side' except bluesoul is able to comment on it ...

[rini]

14. maybe for the same reason

they didn't see fit to comment on the Iraqi baby?

[pistoff democrat]

17. Ahhh, yes

I detect a pattern...I also remember the doctor mentioning how aware he is of all this sort of Israeli medical help provided throughout the ME

[Darranar]

18. Sorry to break up your attack on "the other side"...

but I read the article.

The reason I didn't comment on it is that it is not a constructive argument. It makes assumptions that are innaccurate. It is blatantly one-sided, making the Arab world look worthless next to the beautiful utopia of the liberal democratic state of little Israel, kindly oppressing and brutalizing a population with its progressive right-wing government.

[MikeGalos]

19. Specifically what?

Or are you just going to tar with a vague brush and no content?

[Darranar]

20. Well...

But it has been, overall, a gloriously successful experiment, carving out a liberal democratic oasis in a forbidding totalitarian desert.

And...

Critics should be ashamed for singling out Israel merely for acting like any other modern nation-state. Many myopic critics are blind to Jewish suffering and Palestinian violence. Even many Israelis, especially far too many Israeli academics at home and abroad, lambaste Israeli "oppression" while ignoring Israel's risks for peace during the Oslo years and the Palestinians' lethal rejectionism.

As I hope I managed to imply in my earlier post, how can a "liberal" state oppress a population, go to war unnecessarily, and cause much death, violence, and destruction with little purpose?

Yes, many elements of Israeli society and government are liberal. But there are also many elements which aren't, and only focusing on the one while ignoring the other makes the author guilty of what he or she accuses others of doing.

[bluesoul]

21. Even the Israeli left and the peace activists

are accused of the same thing. Which brings us to a certain point. Is Sharon and the Israeli right preferred to the Israeli left here? I really do wonder...

[MikeGalos]

22. So what are you disagreeing with

Israel's government IS a Liberal Democracy - proof of that is that they elected that idiot Sharon and they can elect somebody else. They get to choose.

Every other country in the region IS totalitarian

Israel IS criticised for actions that are less severe than those not criticised when done by other nations.

So, which of the facts are you disagreeing with?

[Darranar]

23. What do you define as a "liberal democracy"?

And which of Sharon's policies do you disagree with?

In addition, Jordan is not totalitarian.

And name one thing that Israel has been criticized for that other nations haven't been criticized for.

[MikeGalos]

26. Guess you're not a political science person

"Liberal Democracy" has a specific meaning.

It does NOT mean a Democracy where the Liberal party won the last election.

It means a Democracy with liberal social structure such as public education, generally available public health care and government support for labor organizations. Think of most of the democracies in Europe and you get the idea.

[drdon326]

29. Too complicated...

Just think of what every country in the ME ISN'T...
except for the outcast state of Israel.

[Darranar]

31. Okay...

accepting your definition (though I am not sure that that was what the author was refering to, which is why I asked the question; I am well aware of the political science definition of "liberal democracy") I agree with you that Israel is a liberal democracy.

Now please address some of my other points.

And let me add something: the article defends Isarel from its critics by not focusing on the areas where Israel is attacked (its policies in dealing with the Palestinians) but, rather, focusing on its domestic policy. That is the failure of the article, and that is my basic point.

[MikeGalos]

32. I'm not sure what your other points are

you quoted a section of the article and said you disagreed but didn't cite any specific objection.

Clarify and I'll comment.

Specificaly, I'd love to see how supporting totalitarian regimes that oppress their people is Liberal and supporting a liberal democracy is not since that's the real subject of the essay.

[Darranar]

34. No one ever claimed that it was.

[MikeGalos]

35. Really?

Tell all those people who've said I'm not a real liberal for supporting Israel. Tell all those people who said David Duke was a liberal for supporting the Palestinians.

[Darranar]

37. So those people...

claimed that supporting totalitarian regimes in the Middle east was liberal? They claimed that supporting Saudi arabia or Kuwait was liberal?

[GabysPoppy]

24. And you really expected an answer?

:shrug:

[Darranar]

25. He got one.

[GabysPoppy]

27. No, he got three questions from you in lieu of an answer

[MikeGalos]

28. No

Actually, I didn't. I just got a broad quote with no specific objections (Except for not knowing what a "Liberal Democracy" was)

[pistoff democrat]

30. Mike

Did you ever see the movie, "Good As It Gets"?

[MikeGalos]

33. No

Should I?

[pistoff democrat]

36. I can't answer you.

The title is a clue...

[bemildred]

38. What a pantload.

"The worldwide campaign to rob Israel of its good name"

"Palestinians have cleverly hijacked the rhetoric of
human rights to rationalize that great human wrong, terrorism"

"Critics should be ashamed for singling out Israel merely for
acting like any other modern nation-state"

Like I said elsewhere: How stupid do you have to be to lose
a PR war with Arafat and a bunch of suicide bombers?

[Cassandra]

39. At what point in history...

did Jews ever win a PR war against anyone?

[bemildred]

40. They were doing pretty well in the 50s and 60s

if I remember right. Exodus and all that. And things
were pretty chummy in the 90s too. All those Europeans
eager to help out with the "Peace Process". I'll bet that
a poll done then would not have come up with 60% thinking
Israel is a threat to world peace, eh?