Hamas chief criticises way bin Laden killed, buried

[oberliner]

CAIRO — Khaled Meshaal, head of the Palestinian Islamist movement Hamas, criticised on Thursday the way in which Al-Qaeda chief Osama bin Laden was killed by US commandos and then buried at sea.

Meshaal called on the West to "recognise the atrocity of the American raid and the burial of (bin Laden's body) at sea," in remarks to AFP.

"Arabs and Muslims are human beings and the West should treat them as such, regardless of whether they are partisans or opponents of Osama bin Laden."

After news of bin Laden's death was first announced, the head of the Hamas government in the Gaza Strip, Ismail Haniya, said: "We condemn any killing of a holy warrior or of a Muslim and Arab person and we ask God to bestow his mercy upon him."

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jkrichxJz3JnbwO3xeqkB_xSx3-w?docId=CNG.3bce48042eb243fc76055628cd8a2455.cd1

[whosinpower]

1. Meshaal will have a hard time

Finding friends in the west who would agree with him.

[fascisthunter]

2. oh brother.... the guy was an evil piece of shit

he's lucky he was dumped in the sea.

[RaleighNCDUer]

3. Well, there's a surprise. nt

[LeftishBrit]

4. 'We condemn any killing ... of a Muslim and Arab person'

Considering the number of Arabs who've been killed by Hamas, that's a fairly ironic statement.

And Bin Laden as a 'holy warrior' - oh spare me. But then I suppose I'm not a fan of holy warriors, of any religion, at the best of times.

[oberliner]

7. Incidentally these remarks were from Meshal

Haniyeh made similar remarks earlier.

[dkf]

5. Jeez if Muslims want good PR they need others speaking for them.

Where is the relief that a person who only wished for death and destruction is gone?

[azurnoir]

8. well there is plenty of information out there as to 'Muslim" reaction to Bin Ladens death

that is if you want to find it, most approve BTW

[oberliner]

10. What are you basing your claim that "most approve" on?

Can you provide some evidence to back that up?

[azurnoir]

11. on the Pew poll you originally posted, most Muslims polled were not supportive of Bin Laden

http://pewglobal.org/2011/05/02/osama-bin-laden-largely-discredited-among-muslim-publics-in-recent-years/

[oberliner]

16. Yes, that does not mean that want him dead

Just because you don't support someone doesn't mean you want them to be killed.

[azurnoir]

18. Here ya go

Islamic organizations

* Ahmadiyya Muslim Community national spokesman Harris Zafar said: "As a Muslim, I am happy that a known terrorist like Osama bin Laden has been brought down and his reign of terror has come to an end. His actions ran counter to the true, peaceful, message of Islam, and he created so much mistrust and misconception of Islam. I hope other Muslims will realize that he was not a leader of Muslims. He was only a leader of extremists."<68>
* The Council on American-Islamic Relations issued a statement saying: "We join our fellow citizens in welcoming the announcement that Osama bin Laden has been eliminated as a threat to our nation and the world through the actions of American military personnel. ... Bin Laden never represented Muslims or Islam. In fact, in addition to the killing of thousands of Americans, he and Al-Qaeda caused the deaths of countless Muslims worldwide."<69>
* Hizb ut-Tahrir member Issmat Hamouri, from the Islamist party's Palestinian branch, told a small group of men in Jerusalem's Al-Aqsa Mosque that "the western dogs are rejoicing after killing one of our Islamic lions. From al-Aqsa mosque, where the future Caliphate will originate with the help of God, we say to them: the dogs will not rejoice too much for killing the lions. The dogs will remain dogs and the lion, even if he is dead, will remain a lion." Addressing Obama, he said, "You personally ordered the killing of Muslims. You should know that soon you'll hang together with Bush junior."<70>
* The Islamic Society of North America (ISNA) said it "joins all Americans in thanking President Obama for fulfilling his promise to bring Osama Bin Laden, leader of al-Qaeda, and perpetrator of the 9/11 attacks, to justice." ISNA President Imam Magid said that the "ideology of bin Laden is incompatible with Islam".<71>
* The Muslim American Society announced: "Justice has been served." Praying that bin Laden's death will bring solace to all families that have been victimized by al-Qaeda, President Ahmed El Bendary stated, "His crimes were against all humanity. It is correct and fair that Bin Laden should be held accountable for his crimes".<72>
* The Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt issued a statement in which it condemned bin Laden's killing, calling it an "assassination".<73> Muslim Brotherhood second-in-command Mahmud Ezzat said: "Islam is not bin Laden. After September 11, there had been a lot of confusion. Terrorism was mixed up with Islam. In the coming phase, everyone will be looking to the West for just behaviour." He added that, with bin Laden dead, western forces should now pull out of Iraq and Afghanistan.<74>
* The Muslim Judicial Council, the largest Islamic representative body in South Africa, condemned the way in which bin Laden was killed. The council described bin Laden’s death as a failure of justice, saying he should instead have been captured and put on trial, and also that the way the body was buried at sea contradicts Muslim customs and was disrespectful to a community of over a billion people.<75>
* The Muslim Public Affairs Council expressed great relief over bin Laden's death. MPAC president Salam Al-Marayati explained, "We've been dealing with the specter of terrorism for so long that the elimination of bin Laden represents a swift blow against terrorism." He said that he felt it was a game changer, but that he did not "think we've achieved victory against terrorism".<76>
* The Organisation of the Islamic Conference Secretary General said, "Bin Laden ... was responsible for many unjustified bloodshed and attacks against innocent civilians," and emphasized the OIC's condemnation of terrorism. He stated the necessity of bringing terrorists to justice, but said that counter-terrorism activities should focus on the causes of terrorism.<77>

This page was last modified on 6 May 2011 at 01:39.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reactions_to_the_death_of_Osama_bin_Laden


eta there is lots more at the link however IMO the reaction is mixed but most IMO most do not seem to distressed by OBL's death OtOH if one wished to accentuate the negative image of Muslims then there is some info on that also at the link

I did note however you did not seem to have much problem with the poster who thought the Hamas reaction was representative of the Muslim world, am I mistaken about that?

[oberliner]

21. Did you read your own link?

It definitely does not support your claim.

Of the groups listed, some express support for the killing and some condemn the killing.

It certainly does not in any way show what most Muslims think about the US forces killing of Bin Laden.

[azurnoir]

23. did you read the entire comment? it could appear that you did not

your own Pew poll is at the moment is the closest thing we have to a comprehensive survey of Muslims on a global level, however going by that poll it would appear that there was little support for Bin Laden in the Muslim world unless you wish to refute the poll you posted it seems a stretch to claim that it would somehow change because of the manner of his death or that his death was at the hand of Americans

[oberliner]

24. Indeed I did

The Pew poll is not about OBL's death. In fact, it was taken well before this week.

As I've tried to explain to you several times, there is a major difference between not supporting someone and wanting them killed.

[azurnoir]

26. then you should know that I pointed out what you felt a need to make the title line of yr comment

however as I also pointed out as there are 1.2 billion Muslims we would need a poll to know and while I prefer to give the benefit of a doubt leaning towards what as an American could be called the positive, you seem to lean the other way, so to speak, am I wrong about that?

[oberliner]

28. The benefit of what doubt?

I don't even know what you mean by that.

You are just making a baseless assumption with nothing to back it up.

That's what I am contesting.

I don't pretend to know what most Muslims think about the US forces killing Osama Bin Laden.

You did.

"Most approve" came from you.

[azurnoir]

12. are you attempting to twist my comment to mean the opposite of what it said

by cherry picking 2 words?

[oberliner]

15. No - I was just asking for evidence of your claim

How do you know what most Muslims think about Bin Laden being killed by American forces?

What are you basing your claim on?

[azurnoir]

19. No of course you weren't thanks for explaining n/t

[LeftishBrit]

9. There is plenty of that in Muslim groups

Here for example in a statement by the Muslim Council of Britain:

http://www.mcb.org.uk/media/presstext.php?ann_id=444


Not really surprising, given that most of Bin Laden's victims over the years were Muslims.

[Turbineguy]

6. Delete

[azurnoir]

13. There was a quote from the Quran up 'top side' earlier this week that essentially said

the manner in which Bin Laden was buried was permissible in the cases where there was cause to believe the body would be dug up and 'desecrated' after burial, IMO this was the case with Bin Laden, and it also described the method for burial at sea which was followed

heck I almost expect complaints from Right Wingers in the West that Obama was too sensitive

[oberliner]

14. Sea burial of Osama bin Laden breaks sharia law, say Muslim scholars

Excerpt:

In terms of the basic requirements for Muslim burials, standard practice involves placing the body in a grave with the head pointed toward the holy city of Mecca. Burial at sea is rare in Islam, though Muslim websites say it is permitted in certain circumstances. One is during a long voyage where the body may decompose and pose a health hazard to a ship's passengers, an exception noted on Monday by Tunisian scholar Ahmed al-Gharbi. Another is if there is a risk of enemies digging up a and grave and exhuming or mutilating the body.

Dr Saud al-Fanisan, former dean of the faculty of sharia law in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, said that if a body was buried at sea it should be protected from fish. In the words of alislam.org, the body should be lowered into the water "in a vessel of clay or with a weight tied to its feet".

Mohammed al-Qubaisi, Dubai's grand mufti, said of Bin Laden's burial: "They can say they buried him at sea, but they cannot say they did it according to Islam. Sea burials are permissible for Muslims in extraordinary circumstances. This is not one of them."

Abdul-Sattar al-Janabi, who preaches at Baghdad's Abu Hanifa mosque, said: "What was done by the Americans is forbidden by Islam and might provoke some Muslims.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/02/sea-burial-osama-bin-laden

[Igel]

17. The problem was the way it was presented.

As in according with "the" Islamic tradition.

The tradition is clear: Some believe that, in a couple of contexts, it's fine to bury certain Muslims at sea. It's generally considered a good thing to wash the body and change the clothes of the dead before burial.

However, it's not a good thing to wash the body and change the clothes of *every* dead Muslim before burial. The circumstances that are believed to license a sea burial vary. The argumentation to justify a sea burial holds water for some, not for others.

It was according to some Muslim traditions. The problem being that everybody insists there's only one Islam. That's true in about the same easy-to-understand fashion as saying that God is three in one--so he's one god, but three persons.

Right.

[azurnoir]

20. some scholars say one thing some say another

as another poster pointed opinions differ

Vanderbilt professor and Islam expert Leor Halevi answered questions on what the funeral means for the world's most famous terrorist in the afterlife.

On May 2, less than 24 hours after his death, Osama bin Laden's body was placed on a flat board and eased into the North Arabian Sea. Before being slid overboard the USS Carl Vinson, his body was washed and wrapped in white sheets in a 40-minute long traditional ceremony, while a Muslim officer read prayers for his soul.

The burial at sea might be unorthodox, but it's not unheard of, says Halevi, an associate professor of history at Vanderbilt. What was stranger was that he was granted the funeral ceremony reserved for the passing of ordinary Muslims under ordinary circumstances. Bin Laden was hardly ordinary and most would agree he died in extraordinary circumstances. Some would even argue he died in battle. (Though this one's up for debate – reports say he was unarmed.) The rituals for those who died in battle according to Halevi are different; they don't require the person be buried in a shroud or someone to say a prayer. And from what Halevi can see, the U.S. did not try to humiliate bin Laden in death.

Read more: http://newsfeed.time.com/2011/05/05/did-bin-ladens-burial-at-sea-follow-muslim-law/#ixzz1LXUa6GRK

[oberliner]

22. Those comments are from an Israeli-American non-Muslim

An Islam expert, certainly, but not a Muslim.

[azurnoir]

25. Bin Laden's burial at sea in followed Islamic practices, White House insists

"There is a requirement in Islamic law that an individual be buried within 24 hours," Brennan told reporters in a press briefing on Monday. "There were certain steps that had to be taken because of the nature of the operation. We wanted to make sure we were able to do that in the time period allotted for it."

"Going to another country, making those arrangements, requirements, would have exceeded that time period, in our view," he continued. "And so, therefore, we thought that the best way to ensure that his body was given ...an appropriate Islamic burial was to take those actions that would allow us to do that burial at sea." Bin Laden's native Saudi Arabia had refused to accept bin Laden's body.

But some Islamic clerics argued on Monday that burying bin Laden's body at sea violated Islamic law - and that it might provoke militants to call for revenge attacks aimed at American targets.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20058970-503544.html

IMO Obama executed this perfectly and now would be the time for healing

[oberliner]

27. Well I'm sure the White House knows Islamic law better than Islamic clerics!

Give me a break.