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Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Israel/Palestine |
shira (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed May-04-11 04:56 AM Original message |
Yasmin Alibhai-Brown: Stop blaming Israel for every grievance in the Middle East |
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shira (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed May-04-11 05:12 AM Response to Original message |
1. Her concluding remarks... |
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aquart (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed May-04-11 05:21 AM Response to Reply #1 |
3. No shit, Sherlock. |
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shira (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed May-04-11 03:49 PM Response to Reply #3 |
6. None of this is obvious to obsessed Israel bashers. n/t |
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Ken Burch (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-05-11 01:51 AM Response to Reply #3 |
12. Nobody bankrolled the Palestinian resistance |
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shira (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-05-11 04:21 AM Response to Reply #12 |
17. You mean like Iran doesn't bankroll Hamas resistance? |
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Ken Burch (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-05-11 06:29 PM Response to Reply #17 |
33. I'm talking about the long-standing Palestinian resistance that pre-dates Hamas |
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shira (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-05-11 07:06 PM Response to Reply #33 |
39. Me too. Ultra-conservative, far rightwing totalitarian fascist Arab dictatorships have always... |
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kayecy (931 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed May-04-11 09:11 AM Response to Reply #1 |
4. Shira - Looks like pelsar has gone off on an undercover mission so..... |
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shira (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed May-04-11 01:39 PM Response to Reply #4 |
5. You're assuming that a Jewish state would've expelled or limited the rights of an Arab majority... |
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kayecy (931 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-05-11 02:08 AM Response to Reply #5 |
13. You asked...how is setting up a free, representative democracy dominating others?..... |
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shira (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-05-11 04:23 AM Response to Reply #13 |
18. I answered all your questions. Can you please answer all mine first before I respond back? n/t |
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kayecy (931 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-05-11 06:08 AM Response to Reply #18 |
20. I thought I had answered you....Let me try and clarify..... |
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shira (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-05-11 10:19 AM Response to Reply #20 |
21. The problem seems to be false perceptions of what Zionism intended... |
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kayecy (931 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-05-11 11:15 AM Response to Reply #21 |
22. Now we are getting somewhere................... |
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shira (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-05-11 12:25 PM Response to Reply #22 |
26. But Jews didn't come to Palestine with a piece of paper from a foreign power... |
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kayecy (931 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-05-11 01:53 PM Response to Reply #26 |
29. You are entitled to believe anything you wish, but if you can't support your beliefs with references |
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shira (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-05-11 05:12 PM Response to Reply #29 |
31. I need sources to show the Zionists never intended totalitarian rule subjugating the non-Jews? |
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kayecy (931 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-06-11 12:25 AM Response to Reply #31 |
59. If you willfully misunderstand Balfour....... ............ ............. |
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shira (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-06-11 03:36 AM Response to Reply #59 |
60. Protecting the civil rights of the non-Jews means they were free to exercise their political rights |
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shira (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-07-11 05:46 AM Response to Reply #59 |
64. Balfour was a means for Arabs to have political and civil rights |
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Ken Burch (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-05-11 07:36 PM Response to Reply #26 |
50. The Ottomans were occupiers. They had no right to negotiate on behalf of the Arabs of Palestine |
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shira (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-05-11 08:15 PM Response to Reply #50 |
52. So why didn't all mideast nations get to vote on who their leaders were? |
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Ken Burch (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-05-11 08:20 PM Response to Reply #52 |
53. Progressives are supporting the Arab democracy movements. |
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shira (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-05-11 08:41 PM Response to Reply #53 |
55. You should support genuine democracy, not the right to vote the MB into power... |
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Ken Burch (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-06-11 12:17 AM Response to Reply #55 |
57. The MB had almost nothing to do with the anti-Mubarak movement. |
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shira (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-07-11 05:41 AM Response to Reply #57 |
63. Yet somehow, they'll gain much more representation in the government, influencing its policies.... |
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Ken Burch (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-07-11 01:40 PM Response to Reply #63 |
65. It couldn't have been made better by trying to save Mubarak |
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Ken Burch (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-05-11 08:20 PM Response to Reply #52 |
54. They should have, but that's beside the point |
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shira (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-05-11 08:43 PM Response to Reply #54 |
56. Unlike other disenfranchised Arabs around the mideast, Palestinians were offered their own state |
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Shaktimaan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon May-16-11 12:41 AM Response to Reply #50 |
78. Do you think you might be looking at... |
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Shaktimaan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon May-16-11 01:36 AM Response to Reply #13 |
80. 181? |
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Shaktimaan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon May-16-11 01:09 AM Response to Reply #4 |
79. I think you are looking at this in a simplistic way. |
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whosinpower (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed May-04-11 07:26 PM Response to Reply #1 |
7. Come on |
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shira (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed May-04-11 08:15 PM Response to Reply #7 |
8. Western criticism and protest isn't exactly a call for revolution. n/t |
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Ken Burch (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-05-11 01:49 AM Response to Reply #8 |
11. A fight against Hamas wouldn't be a revolution-it would just be a power struggle |
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shira (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-05-11 04:16 AM Response to Reply #11 |
15. A fight? How about just criticism and protest vs. Hamas? You're against that? n/t |
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Ken Burch (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-05-11 06:31 PM Response to Reply #15 |
34. I do criticize Hamas and oppose their tactics |
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shira (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-05-11 07:09 PM Response to Reply #34 |
40. The author of the OP doesn't think leftists criticize Hamas nearly as much as they should. n/t |
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Ken Burch (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-05-11 07:17 PM Response to Reply #40 |
43. Evidently so. |
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whosinpower (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-05-11 11:47 AM Response to Reply #8 |
23. Are you sure about that? |
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shira (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-05-11 12:13 PM Response to Reply #23 |
24. Okay, so what's the solution? |
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whosinpower (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-05-11 12:33 PM Response to Reply #24 |
27. The Op is flawed |
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shira (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-05-11 01:40 PM Response to Reply #27 |
28. Disagree. Universal human rights are just that... |
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whosinpower (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-05-11 02:12 PM Response to Reply #28 |
30. So you in disagreement |
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shira (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-05-11 05:20 PM Response to Reply #30 |
32. Israel isn't against criticism of Mubarak or the Saudi regime. |
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Ken Burch (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-05-11 06:36 PM Response to Reply #32 |
36. You're assuming that nothing good could come from overthrowing Mubarak |
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shira (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-05-11 07:11 PM Response to Reply #36 |
41. How do you know criticizing Mubarak and pressuring change wouldn't have made a difference? |
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Ken Burch (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-05-11 07:14 PM Response to Reply #41 |
42. The Egyptian people had been doing that the whole time he'd been in power |
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shira (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-05-11 07:22 PM Response to Reply #42 |
46. I'm talking outside pressure from the left, peace movements, international community. |
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Ken Burch (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-05-11 07:27 PM Response to Reply #46 |
47. I'm not against it. But I don't accept the idea |
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shira (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-05-11 07:31 PM Response to Reply #47 |
48. You said it all right there. Quoting you... |
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Ken Burch (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-05-11 07:33 PM Response to Reply #48 |
49. I'm for their rights...and I'm equally for the rights of the Palestinians |
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shira (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-05-11 08:11 PM Response to Reply #49 |
51. LOL...the Arab dictatorships like Mubarak, Assad, etc. love keeping the focus only on Israel |
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Ken Burch (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-06-11 12:21 AM Response to Reply #51 |
58. What do you want? |
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shira (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-06-11 03:57 AM Response to Reply #58 |
61. You think it would have been rightwing to spend more time criticizing Arab dicatatorships |
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shira (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-07-11 05:39 AM Response to Reply #58 |
62. What I want is genuine democracy, not totalitarian rule. |
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Ken Burch (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-07-11 01:41 PM Response to Reply #62 |
66. I'm not ok with totalitarian rule. |
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oberliner (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-07-11 07:08 PM Response to Reply #66 |
67. What about Gaddafi? And Assad? |
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Ken Burch (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-07-11 07:13 PM Response to Reply #67 |
68. Seems to be. The people of those countries are taking care of it. |
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oberliner (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-07-11 07:56 PM Response to Reply #68 |
69. Are they? |
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Ken Burch (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun May-08-11 12:59 AM Response to Reply #69 |
70. They were better prepared, I guess. What's your point? |
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oberliner (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun May-08-11 05:50 AM Response to Reply #70 |
71. You wrote that you were "not ok" with totalitarian rule |
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Ken Burch (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun May-08-11 03:43 PM Response to Reply #71 |
72. We need to show solidarity with those people, as progressives did with the anti-apartheid movement |
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oberliner (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun May-08-11 06:04 PM Response to Reply #72 |
73. Strange that progressives have given so little attention to these regimes until lately |
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Ken Burch (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun May-08-11 06:20 PM Response to Reply #73 |
74. Ah...your agenda is revealed. |
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oberliner (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon May-09-11 06:42 AM Response to Reply #74 |
76. There is no agenda - it is a geniune question/observation |
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Ken Burch (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-05-11 01:47 AM Response to Reply #1 |
10. That's why progressives, unlike YOU, SUPPORT the Arab democracy movements |
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shira (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-05-11 04:15 AM Response to Reply #10 |
14. I support genuine democracy, not something worse than what already exists. |
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Ken Burch (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-05-11 06:42 PM Response to Reply #14 |
37. The only chance Egypt had for genuine democracy was overthrowing Mubarak |
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shira (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-05-11 07:17 PM Response to Reply #37 |
44. How do you know when the human rights community let him off the hook for the most part? |
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Shaktimaan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun May-08-11 06:50 PM Response to Reply #37 |
75. interesting post |
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JDPriestly (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed May-04-11 05:20 AM Response to Original message |
2. Thank you. Because I have known so many Holocaust survivors |
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Ken Burch (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-05-11 01:46 AM Response to Original message |
9. Nobody actually IS blaming Israel for "every grievance in the Middle East". |
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shira (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-05-11 04:17 AM Response to Reply #9 |
16. So you don't really agree with the OP? n/t |
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Ken Burch (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-05-11 06:45 PM Response to Reply #16 |
38. I don't agree with the OP's title...and actually, as oberliner helpfully pointed out |
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shira (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-05-11 07:19 PM Response to Reply #38 |
45. Do you agree with the conclusion of the OP? n/t |
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oberliner (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-05-11 04:59 AM Response to Reply #9 |
19. Way to respond to the title and not the actual article |
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Ken Burch (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-05-11 06:34 PM Response to Reply #19 |
35. Well, the title is also important. |
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oberliner (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon May-09-11 09:05 AM Response to Reply #35 |
77. True enough |
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LeftishBrit (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-05-11 12:15 PM Response to Original message |
25. Interesting article. |
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