Poll: Most Palestinians view talks as precursor to 1 state

[shira]

The majority of Palestinians support direct talks and the two-state solution, but ultimately want the entire area between the Jordan River and Mediterranean Sea to turn into one Palestinian state, a poll sponsored by The Israel Project, a Jewish-American organization, shows.

The data, collected by Greenberg Quinlan Rosner Research in October, shows that the Palestinians blame Hamas for the current state of affairs in the Gaza Strip, and are hostile not only towards the Islamic organization but also towards Iran.

According to the poll, 61% of Palestinians from both Gaza and the West Bank support direct negotiations with Israel, and 60% accept the two-state solution. A 54% majority also agree peace is possible with Israel.

A closer look, however, reveals a different picture: According to the poll, most Palestinians refuse to reconcile with the idea of Israel as a Jewish state. While 23% accept the statement that “Israel has a permanent right to exist as a homeland for the Jewish people,” two-thirds prefer the alternative statement that “over time Palestinians must work to get back all the land for a Palestinian state.”

more...
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3987277,00.html

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[shira]

2. Abbas pays homage to Nazi Mufti

He continued: We must also recall also outstanding leadership in the Palestinian people before him, the Grand Mufti of Palestine-Haj Mohammed Amin al-Husseini, who sponsored the struggle from the beginning, and sponsored the struggle and displacement for the cause and died away from the home.

http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=ar&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.maannews.net%2Farb%2FViewDetails.aspx%3FID%3D335302

Of course, Abbas' praise for the Mufti didn't make it into the english version of Maan News...

http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=335322

[shira]

3. Fatah: No to Israel as Jewish state, no land swaps

“The council affirms its rejection of the so-called Jewish state or any other formula that could achieve this goal,” said a statement issued by the council.

“The council also renews its refusal for the establishment of any racist state based on religion in accordance with international law and human rights conventions.”

The council made its statement as Israel awaits a document from the US which would set out an incentives package in exchange for a 90-day freeze on new settlement construction based on the terms of the 10- month moratorium on such activity which expired on September 26.

The Palestinians have insisted that Israel must halt all settlement activity before direct negotiations can be resumed.

An Israeli government official on Saturday night called on the Palestinians to resume direct negotiations without any preconditions.

“Let us meet and talk,” he said.

The official said he was disappointed by the council’s statement with respect to a Jewish state.

“I would ask the Palestinians the following question: If the Jewish state is fundamentally illegitimate in your eyes, what sort of peace are you offering us? “It is clear that their refusal to recognize the Jewish state’s legitimacy is the true obstacle to peace and reconciliation,” the official added.

http://www.jpost.com/MiddleEast/Article.aspx?id=196972

[arcticken]

4. But I thought it was Israel that didn't want peace.

Imagine my surprise.

[shira]

5. That's what you're supposed to believe. Note that neither the main article nor this bit of news...

....is getting saturation treatment in the world media. Anything like this that presents Fatah in an unfavorable light is censored.

On the other hand, if the first article about the poll results, Abbas praising the Nazi Mufti, or today's news about Fatah instead was a description of Israelis, it would receive top billing and saturation news coverage worldwide.

Go figure.

[howaboutme]

6. Why not one state?

For Jews, Christians and Arabs. All claim this land as theirs. Why should it be a singularly Jewish state?

[oberliner]

7. Why not re-unify Yugoslavia or Czechoslovakia?

Why does there need to be a separate Czech state and Slovak state?

Why does there need to be a Croatian state? A Serbian state? A Macedonian state?

[howaboutme]

8. Good question

Nations were once built on ethnic commonality and it was accepted, and it worked to keep the peace within the constraints of borders. Peoples interacted as nation states, not as individuals or tribes.

Today the globalist trend in a supposed "just democratic society" is about equal rights and total diversity and opposition to racist, ethnic based nations.

That puts Israel right directly in the cross-hairs of being racist state, and against everything that the world and globalism and society of 2010 now stands for and also opposes.

[oberliner]

9. There is no reason then why the entire Middle East cannot unite in one large state?

Do you see any reasons why that should not be the case?

Why would Jordan, for example, not be part of the one state solution as well? Or why not merge Syria and Lebanon? Why couldn't Iraq incorporate Kuwait into one state like they wanted to?

[howaboutme]

10. Why worry about the entire Middle East

when it is Palestine and Israel that should become one state at peace just as is the USA and Europe?

To be honest I wouldn't give one crap about Israel, as long as their actions are just and do not involve the USA. But we've seen exactly what their actions and our blind support have done and it has involved us. For example WTC bombing 1 in the 90s, the Yemen USN bombing, 9-11, Afghanistan War and the Iraq War ----- and Israel is directly linked and involved in all of these just like a smoldering ember in barn full of straw. The actions of this little country have directly cost us trillions.

I normally avoid this forum just because I could easily say some things, not that I might regret, but that others would attempt to claim are somehow worse than the Israelis who currently shoot unarmed Palestinians in a barrel. So I stay away.

[oberliner]

11. I'm not worried - just trying to illustrate a point

Sure it would be great if everyone got along and there were no conflicts between Christians, Muslims, and Jews, or between people of one group or tribe or nation and another, but there are.

In this case, Palestinian nationalism and Israeli nationalism exist. Each of these two people's would like to have their own homeland - their own state. To impose upon them a situation where neither of these dreams can come true seems grossly unfair. Especially as outsiders who are neither Israeli nor Palestinian.

The situation now, of course, is also unfair, so we need to work towards a solution.

Now there are some Palestinians and Israelis who support a single state but the majority of Palestinians do not and the vast majority of Israelis do not. We ought to respect the will and desire of the people in question. (If you would like to see more detailed polling data on the subject, check out this link: http://www.pcpsr.org)

There ought to be a solution to this conflict where both people's are able to live side by side at peace with one another with each of their national ambitions fulfilled. That is what the majority of them want, and that is what I think we should all be working towards.

[shira]

12. Because it would result in a very long, bloody war?

And once Jews are voted out, who do you think will be voted in to run such a state? Look around the middle east neighborhood and all the failed states with no basic human rights, women and gays treated poorly, no religious tolerance, etc.

You want to replace a liberal democracy with that, after a long and bloody conflict?

[howaboutme]

13. Where have we heard that before?

Ah now I remember, it was from white ethnic groups in the Republic of South Africa when Nelson Mandela was elected President.

[oberliner]

15. What were the populations?

Very different percentages, very different circumstances, very different potential solutions.

[aranthus]

14. Several reasons.

1. The Jews want a state of their own, and they have a right to one.
2. There couldn't be a single state of Jews, Christians and Arabs any more than there could be a state of all Yugoslavians or of Czechs and Slovaks. Those countries broke up for good reason. Different peoples control there lives differently, and they should be allowed to.

3. A single state is just a papering over of the Arab demand to control the entire middle east. It's not a question of having a single secular state. The choice is between two states-one Jewish and one Arab, or a single Arab state with oppressed Jewish and Christian minorities.

[shira]

16. Fatah: The Message Remains No and No and No

The Western-backed ruling Fatah faction in the West Bank has just concluded its fifth convention in Ramallah with a series of statements that will make it virtually impossible for Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas to reach a deal with Israel that includes any compromises.

A statement issued by the Fatah Revolutionary Council, which consists of more than 100 Fatah officials, said no to almost every proposal or idea that could have paved the way for some kind of a settlement between Israel and the Palestinians.

No to recognizing Israel as a Jewish state; no to any solution that calls for the establishment of a Palestinian state with temporary borders; no to the idea of a land swap between Israel and the Palestinians; no to any resuming peace talks with Israel unless construction in settlements and east Jerusalem is halted; no to understandings between Israel and the US regarding the future of the peace process; no to supplying Israel with US weapons; no to recognizing the Western Wall's significance to Jews and not to a new Israeli law that requires a referendum before any withdrawal from Jerusalem and the Golan Heights.

With a position like this, it is hard to see how any progress could be achieved when and if the peace talks ever resume. What Fatah is actually saying is that Israel must accept 100% of our demands if it wants peace. This is the only "yes" that Fatah had to offer.

The Fatah statement should not come as a surprise to anyone: this has in fact always been the faction's position, especially since the beginning of the peace process with Israel. Fatah has actually been consistent in its policy and its positions have not changed over the past two decades.

The problem is not Fatah as much as it is the Western governments that continue to ignore what Fatah is -- and always has been -- saying. The international media is also to be blamed for ignoring or downplaying such statements made by the "moderate" Fatah in the West Bank.

more...
http://www.hudson-ny.org/1697/fatah-message

AIPAC is no match for the OIL lobby.

[shira]

17. Is the Palestinian Authority becoming an Islamic Theocracy?

A Palestinian blogger faces life imprisonment for criticizing Islam on Facebook. The 26-year-old blogger, Waleed al-Husseini, was arrested recently by the Western-backed Palestinian Authority security forces in the West Bank.

His crime: He created a Facebook account named Allah and "insulted the divine essence."

Those who fund the Palestinian Authority must put pressure on its leaders to respect freedom of speech and refrain from imposing Islamic Sharia laws in the West Bank.

Otherwise, it will be only a matter of time before Palestinians in the West Bank are beheaded or have their hands amputated or are stoned to death for adultery and theft. If the Palestinian Authority is not made to understand the repercussions of its actions, the West Bank will be turned into another radical Islamic entity like the one that already exists in the Gaza Strip.

more...
http://www.hudson-ny.org/1670/palestinian-authority-islamic-theocracy

[shira]

18. Arab Repression of the Media

Can anyone imagine the reaction if Israel had sentenced a journalist to 50 lashes for writing an "instigating report"?

Can anyone imagine the reaction if Israel were to ban Al-Jazeera from operating in its territory?

Can anyone imagine the reaction if the Israeli government were to ban TV channels from broadcasting live events from Israel?

These are legitimate questions in light of what has been happening recently in some Arab countries.

In Saudi Arabia, a journalist was recently sentenced to 50 lashes for allegedly instigating protests against a government electricity company following a series of power cuts.

Fahd al-Jukhaidib, who works for the daily Al-Jazeirah newspaper, was also sentenced to two months in prison for his "crime." He will be whipped in public in front of the electricity company offices.

The verdict has drawn little attention in the West and prominent organizations that claim to defend freedom of the media have yet to voice their opinion on this matter.

The silence of the international media and the absence of a strong response from human rights and media organizations have obviously encouraged Arab dictators to continue and even step up their repressive measures against journalists and various media outlets.

The case is unlikely to spark widespread protests in the West, most likely because Israel is not involved. Had the poor journalist been sentenced by an Israeli court, his case would have made it to the front pages of the mainstream media in Europe and North America.

Who cares if an Arab government mistreats or tortures an Arab journalist? Besides, which Western journalist would have the courage to travel to Saudi Arabia to cover a story that could get him or her into trouble with Saudi authorities?

more...
http://www.hudson-ny.org/1651/arab-media-repression

[shira]

19. Who's fault is the continuing occupation of the West Bank?

The fact that the Israeli occupation of the West Bank has not ended is largely, if not entirely, the fault of the Palestinian leadership. This may sound counter-intuitive, since it is Israel that is continuing to occupy the West Bank, but it has been the Palestinian leadership that has repeatedly refused to accept Israel’s offers to end the occupation. It was recently revealed that in 2008, the Israeli government again offered to end the occupation, and once again the Palestinian leadership failed to accept the offer. This is what the Associated Press reported on November 27, 2010.

"Since leaving office, Olmert has confirmed that he made Israel’s most far-reaching offer to the Palestinians, proposing a Palestinian state on close to 94 percent of the West Bank and offering the equivalent of the final 6 percent of territory in a land “swap.”

Olmert said yesterday that the Palestinians never responded to his offer, made in the final months of his term in office. 'I think that they made a mistake." Yasser Arafat made the same mistake in 2000 and 2001 when he refused a similar offer from then Prime Minister Ehud Barak and then US President Bill Clinton. In 2005 when Ariel Sharon completely ended the occupation of the Gaza Strip, Hamas responded by showering thousands of rockets on civilian targets in Israeli cities. And now, in 2010, the Palestinian leadership is refusing to sit down and negotiate with the Netanyahu government unless Israel accepts its “preconditions.”

This reminds me of what Abba Eban famously said after Israel won a decisive war started by the Arabs in 1967: “This was the first war in history that on the morrow the victors sued for peace and the vanquished called for unconditional surrender.”

more...
http://www.jpost.com/Home/Article.aspx?id=198096