Website reveals details of hundreds of IDF 'war criminals

[Scurrilous]

Those behind it claim, 'People listed here held positions of command therefore not only did they perform on behalf of a murderous state mechanism but actively encouraged other people to do the same'

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3986365,00.html

<snip>

"A website that went online Tuesday has published a list of 200 IDF soldiers which it classifies as directly involved in operations carried out in Gaza during Operation Cast Lead. Each entry features the soldiers and officers' pictures and personal details, including identification numbers and addresses.

"In underlining them we are purposefully directing attention to individuals rather than the static structures through which they operate," the website states while calling on visitors to spread the info "widely". The reliability of the information is as yet unclear.

"Underlining the following people is an act of retribution and affront. They are the direct perpetrators, agents for the state of Israel that in Dec. - Jan. 2008- 2009 attacked scores of people in the besieged Gaza" noted the website. The website has no special design or graphics, just a table of names of soldiers listed in alphabetic order which the site claims, served in the army in the winter of 2008-2009.

Soldiers listed include officers from the very top of the IDF hierarchy – Chief of Staff Gabi Ashkenazi and down to a sergeant in the infantry training program."


Link:

http://israeliwarcriminals.zzl.org/

[RandomThoughts]

1. I find it interesting that one of the intelligence officers was pictured in a common medatative

sitting position. That removes the possibility of that 'group' being within any single theocratic concept.

Or it removes that intent from the display of the pictures. Could be opposite also, I have found the media reverses many things, so could be a backwards thing also.

[happi1]

2. darc proto

Gotta be careful with dox being dropped.

Any jerk could do that ^__^

[Jim Sagle]

3. Most likely a buncha shit.

[old mark]

4. More anti-Israeli bullshit....nt

[proteus_lives]

5. +1

[Violet_Crumble]

8. It's no more anti-Israel than pointing out US war criminals is anti-American...

Both countries, as quite a few other countries do, have people who are war criminals...

[old mark]

18. It is anti Israeli bullshit provided by the Arab terrorists wholong ago vowed to

destroy the Israeli nation.
I'm sorry you believe their lies and I hope someday you will understand the truth.

mark

[azurnoir]

19. you mean the Arab terrorists who run FaceBook?

that is where most of the info and photo's came from

[oberliner]

20. Facebook doesn't refer to every Israeli soldier as a "war criminal"

At least not those who run it as far as I know.

[azurnoir]

22. why would you make such an outlandish claim as everu Israeli soldier ?

Did the website post every Israeli soldier or only the commanders that were in charge during OCL

and FaceBook was the apparent source of the info posted

[oberliner]

23. Every soldier who was involved with OCL is not a war criminal

That is the part that is the issue - not the fact that they got the personal info from Facebook.

[azurnoir]

24. Once again the website did not say every soldier it named only the commanders n/t

[oberliner]

28. Not true - even the excerpt posted contradicts that

I am shocked by your position on this incident.

[azurnoir]

29. then you will have to be "shocked"

there were 200 pictures and the websites on which they're posted are quite clear that they are commanders as their given rank would indicate

[oberliner]

30. You think they are all war criminals whose personal info should be collected and posted?

That's the part I am shocked by.

[LeftishBrit]

32. Not according to the article.

It did not name *every* soldier; but it apparently named quite a lot of soldiers who were not in high level positions.

Especially as military service in Israel is compulsory this is worrying. Would you think it OK to give the names and addresses of American and British soldiers in low-level positions in Iraq or Afghanistan on the web while calling them 'war criminals'? I consider the entire invasion of Iraq as a war crime, but it was not decided by ordinary soldiers. General Ashkenazi no doubt has good security; an ordinary IDF member, identified from Facebook, does not and could be placed at considerable risk for a decision that was not his to make.

[azurnoir]

33. I pointed out that not every Israeli soldier was pictured or guilty

in fact while I have pointed that much of the info came from Facebook. I have given no opinion one way or the other as to what I think of this episode

[oberliner]

35. None of them are

That is what makes this so ridiculous.

Have there been any war crimes trial? Has any one of the people listed been found guilty of anything? Had a chance to defend themselves?

We both know the answer.

[shira]

36. All Israelis accused are presumed guilty before being proven innocent. n/t

[azurnoir]

37. It is as ridiculous to say none are guilty as it is to say all are guilty

however I do not approve of internet "outing" of any sort.

[oberliner]

38. It's not ridiculous - one needs a trial at least before one can be found guilty, right?

Certainly I cannot imagine that you would call it fair to proclaim someone guilty of war crimes without there being any trial or defense.

[azurnoir]

39. so you know as a fact that none are guilty

what if they are not brought to trial? was Pol Pot innocent? was Adolf Hitler? was Joseph Stalin? I don't remember any of them being brought to trial, so they're innocent at least according to your theory

[oberliner]

40. You are comparing Israeli soldiers to Hitler, Pol Pot, and Stalin?

Wow - that's really pushing it.

[azurnoir]

41. ah one standard for IDF and another for others?

eta not a comparison of anything except the apparently variable standards of guilt or innocence

[oberliner]

42. Same standard for all

IDF soldiers should be compared to any other soldiers. Let's start with the US.

[azurnoir]

43. sure ok you can start naming names if you wish sir

seeing as how your in favor of outing American soldiers, however as I stated I am not in favor of such things no matter what the nationality

[oberliner]

44. That is exactly what I oppose

If individual soldiers ought to be accused of war crimes, then publically "naming names" and posting Facebook data is certainly not the way to go about doing that.

[azurnoir]

45. well we agree I said that several posts back so what are you going on about? n/t

[oberliner]

46. You sarcastically brought up "the arab terrorists who run Facebook"

That was what I was responding to. I think you had missed the point of the objection. It had nothing to do with who was running Facebook.

[azurnoir]

47. if you look back I replying to this post

18. It is anti Israeli bullshit provided by the Arab terrorists wholong ago vowed to

destroy the Israeli nation.
I'm sorry you believe their lies and I hope someday you will understand the truth.

[oberliner]

48. You made an odd leap assuming the "Arab terrorists" in question were the founders of Facebook

I don't see where you got that from.

[azurnoir]

49. you stated in your prior post that it was a sarcastic statement on my part

which it indeed was, that is unless you are claiming that I think Mark Zuckerberg is an Arab terrorist

[whosinpower]

50. Back the bus up Oberliner

How many targetted killings has Israel perpetrated - WITHOUT A TRIAL, WITHOUT GIVING THE ACCUSED A CHANCE TO DEFEND THEMSELVES?

We both know the answer to that too.

As per your own words just a few days ago - what is the use of a law if there is no one to enforce it?

And we also both know that there have been calls for war crimes trials...of which Israel has refused. Funny....Hamas also stands accused and also refuses. We also know the biggest war crime in recent history has not been applied to any court - although he has been OUTTED on several occasions...I'm talking about George W. Bush and the Iraq War.

[Violet_Crumble]

25. What's with the stuff about 'Arab terrorists'?

Is everyone who criticises Israel a terrorist according to the 'truth', or just Arabs? And calling whoever created this site an 'Arab terrorist' comes across as just a bit on the extreme side and just a little bit bigoted against Arabs.

AS I said before, calling people anti-Israel for daring to criticise Israel is every bit as ridiculous as those conservatives who called people who criticised the US anti-American. Calling people who criticise Israel terrorists just takes it to a whole new level of ridiculous.

[eyl]

6. Thing is

that even according to the details of the list, not everyone in it was actually involved in operations in Gaza (eaving aside the issue of whether participation in OCL is a war crime or not, a claim which I obviously disagree with). For example, one of the soldiers is described as an instructor in the IDF's man infantry training base.

Also, the evening news had interviews with some of the soldiers on the list - according to them, at least some of them did not participate in the operation at all.

It's worrying that so many details were published like this, though; besides the potential for attacks on junior officers who's name, image and address were identified in the list, it could proove a bonanza to identity scammers.

[Violet_Crumble]

10. The site was gone by the time I clicked on the link...

So I can't go take a look and see for myself....

I agree that participation in OCL doesn't make someone a war criminal. There were war crimes committed during OCL and it's those who carried those specific crimes out and those who gave the orders who are war criminals and should be held accountable. Saying that anyone participating in OCL is a war criminal is little different to the 'arguments' I've seen that anyone who's a member of Hamas is a terrorist and deserves to die....

btw, when it comes to Israeli troops and their experiences in Gaza, Breaking the Silence is a really great group...

http://www.shovrimshtika.org/oferet/index_e.asp

[azurnoir]

7. Just got a can not connect message on the page

containing the photo's seems the servers is over loaded, no doubt due to the pages huge new found popularity

[Violet_Crumble]

9. It looks like the site's been removed n/t

[azurnoir]

11. No not removed just the server overloaded

I've had this happen with a number of sites including DU (at election time)

if you Google just the zzl.org part you get this

http://zymic.com/

[Violet_Crumble]

12. I'll give it a try later on n/t

[Violet_Crumble]

26. Still not working for me n/t

[LeftishBrit]

13. Pretty disgusting.

Clearly an attempt to incite vigilante justice. Of course people who really committed or incited war crimes deserve to be punished *by the law* - but such lists on the Internet could easily include innocent people.

There was a well-known case in Britain some years ago where a doctor's home was attacked by a mob, because people misread her job title of 'paediatrician' as 'paedophile'! Such internet lists risk similar errors.

It would be just as disgusting - and not so very different - to put a list of supposed 'Palestinian terrorists' on the internet.

[ProgressiveMajority]

14. If Israel fails to prosecute their war criminals....

Than victims of Israeli crimes will seek other means to get justice.

[Violet_Crumble]

15. Naming and shaming is a far less extreme way of seeking justice than extrajudicial killings...

After all, the latter is how Israel deals with anyone they see as war criminals. It's far more extreme and disgusting than an internet naming and shaming session, that's for sure...

[ProgressiveMajority]

16. Yup. How many "terrorists" did Israel put to death without trial

Along with how many members of their families. But listing Israeli war Criminals? Can't do that!

By the way, if you listen to right wing Zionists doing the rounds of Republican talk shows here in the US or read their articles they regularly list Palestinians who they believe are terrorists. Where's the outrage about that? Oh right, only defaming character of Israelis is restricted.

[Violet_Crumble]

27. Many people have been deliberately killed by Israel...

It's an absolute no-brainer that extrajudicial killings carried out by Israel are a far, far more extreme, final and disgusting thing than naming and shaming people on the internet. Given the approval by many 'supporters' of Israel of extrajudicial killings of Palestinians, it doesn't surprise me at all that they'd also do naming and shaning. Personally, I don't approve of violating the privacy of individuals, and as eyl has pointed out that there's people listed who weren't even in Gaza, and I don't think just participating in OCL makes someone a war criminal, so I agree with LB that there's far better ways of going after war criminals...

[oberliner]

21. Look over there! Israel is worse!

The usual line of rubbish.

[LeftishBrit]

31. The point is that 'internet naming and shaming' can lead to extrajudicial killings

It's not the 'shame' part that bothers me; it's the potential egging on of vigilantes.

I think I have said before that even vigilante justice is IMO usually not as bad as war or indiscriminate terrorism - but that does not make it something to be encouraged.

[Violet_Crumble]

34. Sorry, but that's a long bow yr drawing there...

Especially considering there's no examples at all of that actually happening to an Israeli, yet you speak of it as though it has and will happen. Also, yr misusing the term 'extrajudicial killings'. As I pointed out in my posts, I don't approve of naming and shaming because it violates peoples privacy. I don't see the need to exagerrate, and the reality is that what Israel actually does in carrying out extrajudicial killings is far worse than naming and shaming people on an internet site...

[proteus_lives]

17. Nice way of saying you condone violence against Israel.

:eyes:

[whosinpower]

51. You reap what you sow. nt